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 Stux wrote:
So Bonereapers can't take any allies at all. If it's not in the tome, there's no way to get it (except mercenaries I guess).

Mercenary Companies are under 'Narrative Play Games' in the General's Handbook so it will be up to the individuals if they want to use them in Matched Play.

Amusingly enough, if people want to start an army with a Warscroll Battalion?

There's a really good, simple option:
The riders. The Kavalos and 2x units of riders is a battalion--and it does allow for the named rider too.

With Nagash and the Mortarchs being able to join up you'd think that there'd be some cross compatibility with either Nighthaunts or the Legions.

Maybe it'll get FAQ'ed in?

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Any verbiage in the book that enables Ossiarchs to use generic command abilities? My instincts were that they did not have access to them, since they don't have command points. Battleshock immunity isn't relevant to them obviously, but no access to an auto 6" advance and/or re-rollable charges seems notable.

It specifically calls out that they cannot. Which I am very happy to see, since I was concerned about their potential to spam generic command abilities like re-rolls and realm-specific ones. They have their own command ability that increases movement by 3" which more than compensates for the lack of auto-6 run.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
With Nagash and the Mortarchs being able to join up you'd think that there'd be some cross compatibility with either Nighthaunts or the Legions.

Maybe it'll get FAQ'ed in?

Yeah, it's still very possible at this stage. But the outlook isn't good for getting it at launch.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
With Nagash and the Mortarchs being able to join up you'd think that there'd be some cross compatibility with either Nighthaunts or the Legions.

Maybe it'll get FAQ'ed in?

Not "the" Mortarchs.
A Mortarch. It allows for Arkhan the Black, who apparently is running/"gifted" a Legion of Ossiarchs. Otherwise, they're Katakros'.

I really like this concept, getting back on topic:

The new e-short “A Tithe of Bones” is out today. Gives a good glimpse at how the sausage is made, so to speak, in what goes on after a tithe is paid. I particularly liked how the Soulmasons could sort of cut/copy/paste souls once they are reaped and make it something useful to the OBR. In one instance, they took a chaos lord fanatically loyal to Tzeentch and replaced Tzeentch with Nagash. There are alot of other, smaller and grisly details that made this e-short worth the money to to me.

hard pass on these,. not because there is anything wrong with them, they just dont fit my personal tastes of undead without actual bodies gimme spirits all day and all night long please these guys look tough as all get out and matching with ogors, yeah thats some scary stuff.

 nels1031 wrote:
The new e-short “A Tithe of Bones” is out today. Gives a good glimpse at how the sausage is made, so to speak, in what goes on after a tithe is paid. I particularly liked how the Soulmasons could sort of cut/copy/paste souls once they are reaped and make it something useful to the OBR. In one instance, they took a chaos lord fanatically loyal to Tzeentch and replaced Tzeentch with Nagash. There are alot of other, smaller and grisly details that made this e-short worth the money to to me.

I tend to hold off getting the shorts for AoS; mostly because BL has a good track record for AoS of putting them into collected editions every few months. Even if they do mess with them and put the same story into several different collected editions.

Looks like a friend and myself will be splitting Feast of Bones, and I'll be getting the Ossiarchs.

I'll be honest, I've been considering jumping into AoS for a while, but for perhaps the wrong reasons.

I started playing Fantasy back in 2003(Ish) with the the Empire vs. Orcs starter set, and it quickly became my favorite miniatures game by far. My main jam was Tomb Kings, and I played fantasy probably at least once a week for 10 years. When they blew up the old world, it sucked because they seemed to replace it with this incredibly incomplete product. When they squatted Tomb Kings shortly thereafter, it killed any enthusiasm I may have had for the game (Hey! Here's this new game you can play with any of your Warhammer Fantasy miniatures as long as they aren't Brettonians or Tomb Kings!)

I've heard from multiple people that things have greatly changed since those early days, but I'm still skeptical. That being said, I still have a soft spot for fantasy, and I feel like that the setting for Age of Sigmar has some potential, at least. That has driven a desire to give the game a fair shake now that it's been out in the wild with a few years to develop.

To be honest, I'm not anticipating it being a GREAT game, so I am approaching this with some biases, but I'm going to give it a real 'college try'. One full year (2020) of play culminating in a large tournament (maybe Nova), with a faction that was completely designed for the system (the Ossiarch Bonereapers).

I do plan to have fun with the army as these are my favorite AoS releases to date and I intend to COMPETELY resurrect the Tomb Kings with them, with a lot of conversions and kit-bashes to get the feel right, complete with Settra himself (counts-as Katakros). I've got over 10,000 points of WHFB Tomb Kings, so bits aren't even close to a problem.

I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised by AoS, even if I'm skeptical I will be. My Ossiarch army (which I'm calling Project: Resurrection starting now!) is going be a lot of fun to build and paint, regardless!

It depends how you qualify what is or isn't a "great" game, and what you look for that makes a game great. I play a variety of others (40k, Adeptus Titanicus, Infinity, BMG, and for a while (but no longer) Guild Ball, Malifaux, and Warmachine) and AoS still ranks as the game I enjoy playing the most, not counting any sort of fleet-based/ship-based naval-style game (Titanicus is a lot of fun, Firestorm Armada is still hands-down my favorite game, but Spartan games is dead and no community here, and BFG was, lets be honest, broken.)

AOS definitely doesn't have the granular front/flank/rear positioning dilemma that Fantasy has. While positioning is still critical in AoS, it's much more dynamic and fluid.

You'll give it the college try, so that's good. The only recommendation that I can recommend to really maximize how you approach AoS is regarding the double turn.

Don't think of it as a way the game breaks itself, but understand that it's an element of the game that requires thinking and playing around.

Giving your opponent first turn to ensure that you don't get double-turned, as an example (also why people often try to minimize the amount of 'drops' that their army has, because finishing deployment first gives you choice, without the potential for a seize).

Additionally, if you win and never take the double turn, it guarantees that your opponent can't then double-turn you.

Just food for thought. I think the Ossiarchs are probably a tougher army to learn AoS with. It's a small number-count army that isn't fast and doesn't have ways to reposition quickly. The Relentless Discipline mechanic is also greatly nuanced and (I think) compared to many other army mechanics (a lot of wholly within buffs with short ranges as well) that will probably give this army a bit of a steeper learning curve. But I think it also has the potential to be one of the most rewarding to play because of it.

Ossiarch Bonereapers: Tactics From A Pro by Russ Veal (one of the playtesters) on Warhammer Community.

 DV8 wrote:
It depends how you qualify what is or isn't a "great" game, and what you look for that makes a game great. I play a variety of others (40k, Adeptus Titanicus, Infinity, BMG, and for a while (but no longer) Guild Ball, Malifaux, and Warmachine) and AoS still ranks as the game I enjoy playing the most, not counting any sort of fleet-based/ship-based naval-style game (Titanicus is a lot of fun, Firestorm Armada is still hands-down my favorite game, but Spartan games is dead and no community here, and BFG was, lets be honest, broken.)

AOS definitely doesn't have the granular front/flank/rear positioning dilemma that Fantasy has. While positioning is still critical in AoS, it's much more dynamic and fluid.

You'll give it the college try, so that's good. The only recommendation that I can recommend to really maximize how you approach AoS is regarding the double turn.

Don't think of it as a way the game breaks itself, but understand that it's an element of the game that requires thinking and playing around.

Giving your opponent first turn to ensure that you don't get double-turned, as an example (also why people often try to minimize the amount of 'drops' that their army has, because finishing deployment first gives you choice, without the potential for a seize).

Additionally, if you win and never take the double turn, it guarantees that your opponent can't then double-turn you.

Just food for thought. I think the Ossiarchs are probably a tougher army to learn AoS with. It's a small number-count army that isn't fast and doesn't have ways to reposition quickly. The Relentless Discipline mechanic is also greatly nuanced and (I think) compared to many other army mechanics (a lot of wholly within buffs with short ranges as well) that will probably give this army a bit of a steeper learning curve. But I think it also has the potential to be one of the most rewarding to play because of it.

Thanks for the input!

As far as what a 'great' game is, for me at least: it's a game that is actually fun and rewarding to play, win or lose. Games should almost always be close and its best if they're not decided until late-or-end-game.

The dreaded double-turn actually doesn't bother me that much as I've played plenty of games with priority so a double turn is just something you get used to dealing with as a possibility.

But yeah, I'm going to really do my best to make this as fair an experience as possible, and I'm genuinely going to try and enjoy it!

I don't know much about the other artillery pieces but the Ossiarch one looks a little busted. Does anyone know the point cost ? Failing a save and having 5 models die looks a bit harsh, or sniping Heroes with it too. I mean with a little luck you can snipe Katakros in two turns with two of these.

Unlike 40k, where first turn often decides games, I find AoS is a very momentum-based but swingy game. Objectives are the only things that matter, and a lot of the scenarios have objectives that are worth points equal to the turn they're scored on or are worth progressively more the longer you hold them.

Almost no army can really turn-1 alpha strike you, and killing doesn't matter if you win on points, so taking the right objectives at the right time can really swing the tide of an early game that might have been solidly in your opponent's favor.

I very rarely see blow-outs outside of poor matchups or a severe mis-match in player skills.

Artillery looks like it'll work wonders against low-leadership armies, low armor saves or people who like to put their heroes out in the open... But before people rush out buying the Crawlers you've got to consider your meta. Teleporting armies will give them a hard time, and if your group has a fair few Sylvaneth players you'll want to steer clear of expensive shooting.

Anecdotal, but I played a tournament recently and ran in to a CoS army with a boatload of artillery and the first-turn double shooting battalion... And his Artillery didn't fire a single shot until Round 3, but by then I had most of them tied up in melee combat. Sylvaneth will make your Crawlers VERY sad indeed.

GW will be doing a review of the battletome tomorrow on Twitch (12 pm EDT / 4 pm GMT) followed by Ossiarch Bonreapers tactics and then a game versus Slaanesh.

 Aaranis wrote:
I don't know much about the other artillery pieces but the Ossiarch one looks a little busted. Does anyone know the point cost ? Failing a save and having 5 models die looks a bit harsh, or sniping Heroes with it too. I mean with a little luck you can snipe Katakros in two turns with two of these.

It's 200 points and it is powerful, its possibly the only thing in the army that right now feels "cheap" in points for what you get. However at the same time it can't shoot closer than 6 inches (I think) and it can only use its 2 most powerful hits once per game and there's damage to the crawler having an effect on both of them too. I think its likely fair considering its the only non-magical ranged attack the faction has access too.


Also I've been sorting out a bit of a shopping list for this weekend and the big drop of pre-orders. Right now I'm thinking something along the lines of:

1 Arch-Kavalos Zandtos
2 Kavalos Deathriders
1 Mortek Crawler
1 Gothizzar Harvester
1 Mortisan Boneshaper
1 Mortisan Soulreaper

Possibly also adding the Tithe Nexus to the order.

This is on top of:

6 morghasts (I've still not decided on weapons)
10 Mortek Guard
3 Stalkers
Vokmortian

Sadly its looking increasingly like I won't find a trading partner to swap my ogors for reapers and the trading price for ogors is somewhat less than for the reapers so I can't basically double my mortek and stalkers (which is most of what I'd hoped for - the added morghasts would have been a boon). Still that would give me a decent working core plus a nice chunk of variety.

I think the catapult is overpowered at its current cost, or at the very least not goof for the game, because of it's character-snipe ability. 2d6+chart modifier if the value beats the wounds characteristic the target model is slain. At full health its -3, then goes to -1, +0, +1, and finally +3 (gets better the more damage it has). Having your hero deleted from 36" away is not fun to play against.

For anyone wondering, the other shot is pretty much an anti-Skaven ability. Roll for each model in the target unit and add an amount from the damage chart (starts at +2 as I recall, and goes down) each dice that beats the unmodified bravery deals a MW. So it will eliminate 2/3 of a clanrat unit or half a plague monk unit.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think the catapult is overpowered at its current cost, or at the very least not goof for the game, because of it's character-snipe ability. 2d6+chart modifier if the value beats the wounds characteristic the target model is slain. At full health its -3, then goes to -1, +0, +1, and finally +3 (gets better the more damage it has). Having your hero deleted from 36" away is not fun to play against.

For anyone wondering, the other shot is pretty much an anti-Skaven ability. Roll for each model in the target unit and add an amount from the damage chart (starts at +2 as I recall, and goes down) each dice that beats the unmodified bravery deals a MW. So it will eliminate 2/3 of a clanrat unit or half a plague monk unit.

Discussion of the weapons strength vs hordes feels like an exercise in absurdity. Hordes are very strong and make for one-sided games unless you have a dedicated anti-horde weapon. Ossiarchs get this one and can't Ally in other ones. Weak hordes are meant to be chaff and distractions and so don't care if the crawler targets them over something meaningful. Strong hordes are much less likely to keel over to bravery shenanigans.

Now discussion of it's strength vs heroes is worth digging into. I can see the turn 1 snipe of a 5 wound character as unfun, however, it's 2d6-3 which is average roll of 4, requiring the Attacker to roll 9+ on 2d6 to achieve a kill. Which as we know from the 9" deep striking rule, is what's considered a long bomb. I think what gets me about it is circumventing the attack sequence for it. Most other instagib abilities require a laundry list to work (fight in combat, roll hit, roll wound, roll save, if wound is taken, roll a dice to determine if insta-gib happens, etc etc) so why is this one different?? I have no problem with the weapon being capable of what it can (which is niche and unlikely) as long as it follows the rules of everything else in the game. And if the problem is "you could give it more attacks" then just change the unit or CA keywords to disinclude the Crawler. I also wouldn't have a problem with CAs or traits granting it + or rerolls to hit or wound because that's one useful ability being spent on buffing the crawler rather than buffing the meat and potatoes of the list, on the off chance that it can snipe a character. Side-note that isnt *really* relevant, but many characters either have > 5 wounds or a way to gain more wounds via command trait so many characters will ignore the rules of the crawler completely (anything with 9 wounds or more is immune) or become so difficult to slay via Crawler that the chances of it occuring will be 10% of games your character will die on the first turn. Which seems like a waste of 200 points to me. 200 points can buy many elite units at minimum size, a medium sized unit of regular dudes or one quite powerful non-unique hero model that can pack an artefact of power.

The necrotic skulls rule for sniping at heros/monsters seems fine to me because it follows all the regular rules for gameplay. - to hit, + to saves, reroll of save throws, FNP saves against wounds suffered that pass save throws, reserves and redeployment are all things that armies usually have access to and serve to mitigate the effect of strong shooting/artillery.

It doesn't need to use the Stele ability to snipe a Character, sure it might be easier, but the regular attacks do well enough. As Nighthaunt most of my Heroes are 5W (barring the 6W Knight of Shrouds on Steed, and all three named Characters, which have 7W), and if he targets one of mine he just needs to hit on a 3+ reroll 1s to Hit with 3/4 attacks, to wound on 3+ and me to fail my 4+ to have a dead 100-140 pts Hero (I don't rely on the FNP tbh), which easily wracks my whole synergy considering how important they are in my army.

In practice I guess I'll have to deploy in a way as to hide my Characteres, and considering they don't really have screens I can see myself coming from Reserves with my Bladegheists and a Hero to reroll charges and mow them down.

Also don't forget its anti-hero attack is a one time affair. It basically makes taking out the trebuchet being an all or nothing tactic. Either your opponent can and does commit to killing it in one turn; or they ignore it and weather the damage from its regular and anti-hoard attack (remembering that the anti-hoard is also only one attack).

So after seeing the new book myself, I am mostly relieved my concerns I had earlier in this thread were somewhat unfounded, the army hits hard and is priced accordingly... Except that catapult I'm not too keen on that, the anti horde and anti hero parts make me concerned only due to it's price. But hopefully won't be too bad.

The army will hit hard and grind you down, but my Goblins won't fight fair either

I agree with NinthMusketeer, the cursed Stele isn't game breaking, but it shouldn't really be in the game. It's not just it's threat to support heroes - which the regular ammo is a significant threat to - but the ability to pop banners, musicians or break unit coherencey from across the board.

I just don't think that kind of ability should be in the game.

In theory breaking unit coherencey was more of an issue when aura buffs were "any unit within Xinches". The shift toward "any unit fully within Xinches" and the fact that a lot of armies make use of aura buffs from leaders is steadily pushing people away from long string lines of units.

Also its not the only unit snipe ability in the game; in fact I'd argue that specific unit snipe abilities are not totally a bad thing as they do encourage formation use on the table.



Now I'd temper that with two points:
1) If tighter unit formations are encouraged then they should give suitable bonus toward protecting units. We won't ever get back to the old rank and file system, but we could get some forward protections

3) Some models are odd to model visually within a unit. I'm thinking of units which have banners and such. 3 or 4 banners in a 30 man unit looks strange. I'd welcome a return to the old system where if your banner/musician unit is taken out another unit can step in to pick them up.
Sniping would still have power, heckwith the way Ossiarchs use command abilities its actually very powerful against their troop blocks if you snipe out the troop leader

Honestly the Crawler is no more powerful than SCE Longstrikes, who can teleport and shoot twice. Because of their ability to split shots, and the absurdly powerful Headshot rule, they absolutely ruin characters (and I believe they also hit on 2's, wound on 3's, with potentials for rerolls?)

Nagash's Spellportal + Hand of Dust outright slaying a model on a 50/50?

The Crawler fills a much needed gap in the OB army, which lacks (in many builds) numbers and volume (good luck fighting a Skaven, Goblin, or IJ horde) and allows the army to reach out and do damage while it maneuvers its infantry into position.

200 points "feels" cheap, but when you actually try to write an army list with OB, it becomes an issue where you actually have to think "maybe this 200 points is better spent on 3 Stalkers, or another unit of 5 Kavalos..." I think in the context of the OB list, the Crawler is actually fairly priced, given how highly costed everything else is in the army.

The guys at my shop have the book and I've read you can give the Crawlers a 2+ FNP with the right conditions (Batallion + another unit I think) that's pretty ugly !

They bounce the wounds to another unit though, rather than just ignoring them.

So Reapers just beat triple (with a 4th appearing) keeper slaanesh on the Warhammer Twitch. Interesting battle, there were some odd dice rolls that let the Reapers hold one side longer than expected; however they played out very much how people thought. A steady slow advance and once in combat they just soak up the wounds - a harvester and guard was a monster of a block to tackle.

Also the crawler was a very powerful unit in the game.

Well there's your answer to slaanesh. Its not broken, you're just playing the wrong army!