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Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





First off, Leadbelchers are the same price as Gluttons. 80pts for 2, vs 120pts for 3. You aren't paying extra for shooting, you are sacrificing a small amount of melee ability for it (though you gain rend -1).

Second, you can still shoot while in melee in Sigmar, but you have to shoot at the unit you are in melee with. But you dont lose shooting for being engaged.

The big thing Gluttons have is if you are Meatfist or Bloodgullet then they have Allegiance abilities that specifically buff Gluttons in some way, and these abilities dont improve Leadbelchers.

It generally wont be viable to take 2 Battalions in the same army. There's no rule preventing it, but the costs and requirements are just a bit prohibitive. Some armies it's easier, but I really dont see a use case for it in Ogors.

You would get 1 extra CP for each Battalion (and 1 extra relic for each one), but work out what you actually need that CP for. CP uses for Ogors are quite limited. And remember if you really want another cp you always have the option of just buying it instead of taking another Battalion.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2019/12/25 17:45:38


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Niiai wrote:


Ledbelchers seems a bit bad? You pay exstra for the shooting? But once you are looked in combat you cab not shoot any more. Ogre wants to get the charge for the possabilaty for mortal wounds? You do not want the eneny to come to you.
(Although the 18" range might help.)


Well in AoS thats not how it works, you can shoot while in combat (as long as its at the same unit you are in combat with) and you are not paying extra at all, its 2 vs 3, if you take 3 then its the same price. Leadbelchers IMO are one of the better units in the book.

You can easing move>shoot>move>shoot>melee>shoot>melee>repeat and have 0 problems.

AoS has a lot more tricks in the movement/shooting phase than 40k does, its going to take a few games to get use to it

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/26 09:04:06


15k+
:harlequin: 4k
Beastmen 9500
CoS: 3500

Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

https://maddpaint.blogspot.com 
   
Made in no
Powerful Ushbati





Bergen

Well that changes a bit then. So you are trading 1 attack and the hit twice on 6 for rend 1 and the abilaty to shoot. That does not seem so bad.

They are exspensive to collect though... :-(

How do regular ogors have the edge? The one batallion lets everyone have an exstra attack for one turn? That seems good. (An exstra attack for all weapons, including the bite?)

I really enjoy the charge into mortal wound rule. Regulat ogors can re-toll the charge, so that is something. Units of 8+ and big monsters can really put on wounds with a charge of 7, that is 3 mortal wounds.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





Regular Ogors have the edge if you are Meatfist or Bloodgullet and use their allegiance abilities. Bloodgullet one is much better (reroll Glutton wound rolls while in range of a Butcher), but overall the allegiance is only going to be worth it if you run two Butchers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't know what Battalion you are referring to. Do you instead mean the Meatfist Allegiance command ability for an extra gulping bite? It's ok, but nowhere near as strong as the Bloodgullet command ability - but that needs a Butcher nearby so there is some tradeoff.

Remember these are both command abilities, so require CP to use. If you're running a big unit of Gluttons it will also usually be worth it to spend a cp at the start of the battle on Bully of the First Degree (Tyrants always have this ability). What it does is deals d3 mortal wounds to a friendly unit, but that unit is immune to battle shock for the whole game - and on bravery 6 outside of melee Ogors are really vulnerable to battle shock when in larger units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/26 11:52:12


 
   
Made in no
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Bergen

If I do bloodgullet or meatfists can I put the armour or the giant cleaver, the artefacts, on a hero on one of the big beasts?

I supose the army would need 4 heroes.

1 ogre tyrant general
1 big monster that can hold the artefact
2 butchers for buffing
2 groups of ogors to buff
1 more battleline

Some mobile cats to catch objective holders and try to get countercharges. Would something like that work?

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





Yes, you can give the relic to a Frostlord or Huskard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something like this for 2k:

Spoiler:


++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Destruction - Ogor Mawtribes) [1,980pts] ++

+ Leader +

Butcher [140pts]: 3. Ribcracker, Tenderiser

Butcher [140pts]: 2. Blood Feast, Tenderiser

Frostlord on Stonehorn [400pts]: 0. Splatter-cleaver, 1. Black Clatterhorn

Tyrant [160pts]: 0. Nice Drop of the Red Stuff!, 2. Brawlerguts, General

+ Battleline +

Ironguts [220pts]: 4 Ironguts, Bellower, Rune Maw Bearer

Ogor Gluttons [400pts]: 4x 3 Ogor Gluttons, Beast Skull Bearer, Bellower, Paired Clubs or Blades

Ogor Gluttons [400pts]: 4x 3 Ogor Gluttons, Beast Skull Bearer, Bellower, Paired Clubs or Blades

+ Other +

Frost Sabres [120pts]: 3x 2 Frost Sabres

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance
. Ogor Mawtribes: Bloodgullet Mawtribe

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

++ Total: [1,980pts] ++

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/27 08:39:09


 
   
Made in no
Powerful Ushbati





Bergen

Yeah thank you.

I bought the armybook today. I will look at it.

I must say I keep fantasising about getting tramepling cgarges with mortal wounds. That would need groups of 8 or preferably 12 so I do not loose the 4+ mortal wounds to ranged attacks. Or I would need Monsters.

Ogre Gluttons can re-roll the charge so they are good candidates for it. (I am looking for other sources or-reroll charges to get that number up.)

Stonehorn and Thundertursks also seem very good for getting the mortal wounds. I need to do some math if it is worth buying the base creature, or buying the hero upgraded version.

Am I to assume that heroes can get a look out sir roll or similar to save heroes from ranged weapons? And that heroes on monsters do not? Can monsters actually survive through the first round in AoS? I old warhammer fantasy Cannonball shots (who many armies had) would generally kill the big beasties turn 1.

The Bloodgullet Mawtribe seems good, the apeal is that you essential double up on wizards. Buying 2 butchers means you can atempt to cast 4 spells, and since most of the spells have a treshhold of 7 you can not relly to get spells through.

Meatfists seems good for the aditional trampling charge bonus. And the Gut-plate of Ghur on a Frostlord on Stonehorn.

Boulderhead seems to offer little, although the Brand of the Svard is nice. It is probably better if you go all monsters. My wallet can not survive that, and transporattion of models would be hard.

The undergutt has it's things going, but the playstyle does not apeal to me. Thunderbellies and Witerbite both want priests with them, and they are build around Mournfangs packs (that are good) or Sabres of Yeties, but I do not like it.

I will tink a bit about it. Big units of ogree boosted by a spell (bloodgullet) seems also very good. But 2 full groups of Gluttons are 800 points, two fifths of the whole 2000 points.

I also need to do some math of survivabilaty when it comes to saves.Stonehorn, Gluttons/Ledbelchers and Mournfang packs all seem to be the most survivable.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/28 00:45:20


I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in no
Powerful Ushbati





Bergen

Do the gluttons get a discount? Why do 12 cost 400?

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





 Niiai wrote:
Do the gluttons get a discount? Why do 12 cost 400?


Yes, it's very common in Sigmar to get a discount. Not every unit, but many of them. If you look at the point list in the back of your battletome, you'll see Gluttons listed as 120/400. That means 120 for each multiple of the minimum unit size, and then 400 total for max size.

It also means theres really not much point at stopping at 9 Gluttons in a unit, as you get the next 3 for the price of 1 model.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/28 13:54:24


 
   
Made in fi
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Helsinki, Finland

Hey, i've got a quick rules question about ogres iron fist, so if a unit armed with iron fist gets attacked with a rend more than ogres armour save, can I still roll for those mortal wounds?

https://firstblood84.wordpress.com/
Dark Angels (11000), Astra+AdMech+Assassin (7000), Tyranids (3000), Tau (3000), Legions of Nagash (2500) 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





 Spreelock wrote:
Hey, i've got a quick rules question about ogres iron fist, so if a unit armed with iron fist gets attacked with a rend more than ogres armour save, can I still roll for those mortal wounds?


Yes, you still make the roll. You technically always still make rolls even if they are impossible to pass, though players obviously usually dont bother.

It isnt possible to pass the save, but you may still cause mortal wounds.
   
Made in fi
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Helsinki, Finland

Okay thanks, now i'm torn between making a choises for either a pair of clubs or iron fist, lol. I'll have to do some math which one does more damage..

https://firstblood84.wordpress.com/
Dark Angels (11000), Astra+AdMech+Assassin (7000), Tyranids (3000), Tau (3000), Legions of Nagash (2500) 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





 Spreelock wrote:
Okay thanks, now i'm torn between making a choises for either a pair of clubs or iron fist, lol. I'll have to do some math which one does more damage..


Its difficult question, which we did discuss earlier in the thread.

Basically, you will not get many mortal wounds per dead Ogor. But against the right opponent a few mortal wounds can go a long way, compared to more normal attacks hitting.

There's no easy answer. Personally I favour paired blades, but I know others swear by iron fists.
   
Made in no
Powerful Ushbati





Bergen

I have not read the deployment rules for AoS yet.

But with the thunder tribe and the move d6 after deployment can we not garantee a first turn charge with the mournfangs? Deploy 12 in on an 48" table. Move 1d6 from formation. Move 9 + 2 from hungry. Run 1d6. (Have one of the models within 12" from an edge). Charge 2d6 + 1 from the banner.

That is a total of 24 + 4d6 range. If you deolpy the mournfangs last you cab have a huge threath range.

Thoughts?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/28 23:51:27


I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





How are you getting the d6 move after deployment?

Assuming that's correct for a moment, you'll normally have 24" of no man's land to cross to get to the enemy deployment zone. 12" +4d6 is an average of 26". So more often than not you will get a first turn charge IF the enemy is deployed on or very close to the line of their deployment zone, and there isnt intervening terrain blocking the path.

Its certainly not guaranteed, and only particularly relevant if you get first turn. It's still very good, but I'm not sure it's worth giving up the benefits of Bloodgullet, especially if you are wanting to run all those Gluttons still.
   
Made in no
Powerful Ushbati





Bergen

No, I am just theorising all angels before I buy.

The Jorlbad formation gives stonehorns and mournfangs 1d6 move at the start of the game.

On an oggre you pay 40 for 4 wounds with a 5+ save. On mournfangs you pay 70 for 6 wounds with a 4+ save and posabilaty of the leadbelcher weapons. You also get 4 attacks from the cat.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





Ah yes, the Battalion. It's a pretty good trick if you want to go heavy on Mournfangs certainly!

Only the unit leader gets a pistol by the way, the rest of the unit only have melee weapons.
   
Made in no
Powerful Ushbati





Bergen

I have noot loked at the pistol that much. I need to do some math breakdowns.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





 Niiai wrote:
I have noot loked at the pistol that much. I need to do some math breakdowns.


Ok I thought that was what you were referring to by "possibility of Leadbelcher weapons".
   
Made in no
Powerful Ushbati





Bergen

I tryed to make the Eurlbad battalion work. On the theory that mortal wounds are good. (A mortal wound on a 6 sounds just sick. A singel mournfang unit has 7 attacks, netting at least 1 mortal wound. In particular longside the trampling charge rule that the behemots have, doing around 3 mortal wounds when they charge. The mortal wounds add up fast.)

How ever, I really underestimate how 'few' things you can get in a list in AoS as opposed to 40K.

This ate up all of my points at 2000 points. It is very hard to combine a battalion and both have a mix of Beastclaw Raiders and regular Ogors. I am happy with the list, but it is not what I want to play. I am also really falling in love with the frostlord on Stonehorn. 400 point is a lot. But 3+ and additional 5+++ is very good.

Spoiler:

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Thunderbellies

LEADERS
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- General
- Command Trait : Storm Chaser
- Artefact : Alvagr Rune-tokens
- Mount Trait : Old Granitetooth
Huskard on Stonehorn (320)
- Chaintrap
- Artefact : Shatterstone
- Mount Trait : Black Clatterhorn
Butcher (140)
- Cleaver
- Lore of Gutmagic : Ribcracker

UNITS
4 x Mournfang Pack (280)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
4 x Mournfang Pack (280)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
2 x Mournfang Pack (140)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists

BEHEMOTHS
Stonehorn Beastriders (300)
- Ogor Mawtribes Battleline (Beastclaw Raiders General)

BATTALIONS
Eurlbad (140)
TOTAL: 2000/2000

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/29 15:59:37


I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





It's just an extremely Elite army, and doubly so if you go pure Beastriders.

I'd drop the 3rd Mournfang Pack. Maybe the Frostlord too. They are fantastic, but you require the other two big beasts for the Battalion. Spend the points on Gluttons and/or Frostsabres. Or a Firebelly, some magic would be very useful, including for unbinding.

You're probably aware already, but just to be sure from what you said - Mournfangs are not monsters, and so only do Mortal wounds on a 6 for trampling charge.
   
Made in no
Powerful Ushbati





Bergen

I corrected some mistakes on the list.

Yes, I know Mournfangs are not monsters. But if they can make a 7 charge, 1 of them are a mortal wound from trampling charge. And when all 4 kitties with riders attak under Eurlbad that is an additional 4 mortal wound. Asuming the opponent does not kille them all.

The 3 big beasts do 3 mortal wounds when they charge. Quite good.

I am 'flicking' around with the points. But it is hard to get a use out of 2 artifacts and 2 mounted traits. It needs 2 heroes on beasts, and a battalion. Perhaps I should focus on not trying to achieve both.

Here is a list with more of a compromise. Bloodgullet for exstra spells (but only 1 wizard, so perhaps not the best use.) Stil using the eurlbad for mortal wounds. Has that big unit of ogre to dish out a lot of damage.

Sources of mortal wounds: The wizards magic missile, mortal wounds from Eurlbad and the charges from the 2 monsters and the unit of ogre.

Spoiler:

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Bloodgullet

LEADERS
Huskard on Stonehorn (320)
- General
- Command Trait : Nice Drop of the Red Stuff!
- Blood Vulture
- Artefact : Splatter-cleaver
- Mount Trait : Old Granitetooth
Butcher (140)
- Cleaver
- Artefact : Wizardflesh Apron
- Lore of Gutmagic : Blood Feast

UNITS
4 x Mournfang Pack (280)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
4 x Mournfang Pack (280)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
2 x Mournfang Pack (140)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists

BEHEMOTHS
Stonehorn Beastriders (300)
- Ogor Mawtribes Battleline (Beastclaw Raiders General)

BATTALIONS
Eurlbad (140)
TOTAL: 2000/2000


Can drop the last unit of mournfangs for 1 more butcher perhaps, to get 2 more spells in there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/29 16:19:49


I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





Honestly it's not a bad list at all, just very specialised.
   
Made in no
Powerful Ushbati





Bergen

We only have 2 sources for priestst, right? The command trait and the mammuth (thunder thing)?

The mammuth has some plusses if he is around other mamuts. Are those plusses on his two spesific prayers, or every prayer he casts?

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





 Niiai wrote:
We only have 2 sources for priestst, right? The command trait and the mammuth (thunder thing)?

The mammuth has some plusses if he is around other mamuts. Are those plusses on his two spesific prayers, or every prayer he casts?


Correct, though Priests aren't really that important. A prayer is just an ability you have to roll for. Wizards on the other hand are able to unbind enemy spells, so generally have a lot more utility.

The bonus for having other Thundertusks nearby applies to all prayers that the Huskard performs.
   
Made in no
Powerful Ushbati





Bergen

What are the mlign sorcery and different realms? Are there rtefcts there to use?

What about this army? It might be a bit 'spammy'?

I like that I have a big monster in the frostlord. And a lott of damage on the kitties with mortal wounds. I also miss not having magic and a nice BIG group of gluttons. (Although people on the internett seems to love the Ironguts as a damage dealer. But mortal wounds is nice as well, no?)

Spoiler:

++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Destruction - Ogor Mawtribes) [2,000pts] ++

+ Leader +

Frostlord on Stonehorn [400pts]: 4. Alvagr Rune-tokens, 4. Frosthoof Bull

+ Battalion +

Battalion: Eurlbad [1,600pts]
. Huskard on Stonehorn: 0. Shatterstone, 0. Storm Chaser, 6. Old Granitetooth, Blood Vulture, General
. Mournfang Pack: 2x 2 Mournfang Pack, Banner Bearer, Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers, Horn Blower
. Mournfang Pack: 2x 2 Mournfang Pack, Banner Bearer, Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers, Horn Blower
. Mournfang Pack: 2 Mournfang Pack, Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers
. Mournfang Pack: 2 Mournfang Pack, Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers
. Stonehorn Beastriders: Blood Vulture

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance
. Ogor Mawtribes: Thunderbellies Mawtribe

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

++ Total: [2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





You can pick a realm of origin, and that allows access to the artefacts of that realm, and realm specific spells. However, your first artefact for Ogors must still be your sub faction artefact (assuming you have a sub faction) so you can only access these artefacts if you have a Battalion to get another artefact. There are some decent ones, but honestly the best Ogor ones are better generally anyway.

As for Malign Sorcery, Ogors dont have their own Endless Spells so you'd just be looking at the generic ones. The Cogs are good but expensive. The Bridge is pretty good, but also pretty expensive. I like Balewind Vortex, essentially a free cast if you succeed, then the extra range and protection is great. Most of the rest are trash. Aethervoid Pendulum is kind of ok, as the opponent cant redirect it and it's decent damage.

Theres nothing wrong with playing a list that is just the big monsters and Mournfangs, they are good units. But it is a skew list, and yeah for an initial army you may want to start with something more balanced.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, you also should look at getting a Great Mawpot. They're free to include in your army.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/31 08:53:59


 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






To be clear, each army can pick a realm of origin, which grants them access to two artifact charts specific to that realm.

Each match can have a realm the battle is taking place in, granting access to the seven spells specific to that realm for all wizards in the battle regardless of what realm their army came from.

An army does not get to use the realm-specific spells like they would a lore in their battletome.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/31 23:16:30


Consider; Games Workshop rules not so much games but as toolboxes for players to craft an experience from, and open/narrative/matched play just examples of how things can be put together. 
   
Made in us
Furious Fire Dragon




USA

I think realms rules are the worst part of sigmar. Universal spells/artifacts mean balance is not going to happen as battletomes are assuredly not built with them in mind. I've never played a game with them, and I never will.

We mortals are but shadows and dust...
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:harlequin: 2k
2k
2k 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






They aren't built with double-turns in mind either, if we want to start at the worse end.

Consider; Games Workshop rules not so much games but as toolboxes for players to craft an experience from, and open/narrative/matched play just examples of how things can be put together. 
   
 
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