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 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Just about everyone has a flier and super heavy.

The game is done. Complete.

How are you defining this, Kid? Including or excluding FW? Individual books or IMPERIUM/CHAOS/ELDAR level?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I wonder if GW will ever move the rules online, turn them into an online subscription model with regular updates and army building tools.

Probably. But not this time. It would be a significant enough investment we'd hear about it and it would take a major bomb of a rules set for GW to risk that gamble.

They did it for AoS (Azyr) and by all accounts it was a flop.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Do you reckon the 'big Summer reveal' could be a move towards a living, subscription-based ruleset?

Not impossible with Rountree-GW, but also not likely because selling books makes money, no matter how often they make an ass of themselves with products requiring day 1 patches on a medium that doesn't really support patches at all.

Do you reckon the 'big Summer reveal' could be a move towards a living, subscription-based ruleset?

Can dream I suppose.

 Brother Castor wrote:
Ignoring CA 2018 and the first SM codex (and datacards) that I've sold, I've still got £££ invested in 8th edition rules:

BRB (£35) + Open War Cards (£10)
Codex SM (£25) + datacards (£10)
Codex Ultramarines (£17.50) + datacards (£10)
Codex Chaos Knights (£25) + datacards (£10)
CA 2019 (£20)

TOTAL: £162.50

Okay, so I probably got 15% off all that not buying through GW, but still, I'd not want to have to re-buy everything. In fact that concern is one of the things that stops me starting a third army or buying campaign books too...

If you don't want to buy new rules periodically you are alas in wrong hobby. You can expect new rules and codexes every 3-5 years generally, more often with some factions(sm). Unless you are faction that gets ignored for looooooooong times but not sure is it fun to have no codex in certain edition as you are waaaay behind in power curve then with power creeps.


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 Brother Castor wrote:

And of course with the new Schemes of War rules in CA 2019, datacards are no longer just an optional convenience if you want to play Maelstrom missions. The only thing in that list I don't technically need is the open war cards.

At least any poker card set can be bought instead for cards if you wish.

I don't think a subscription based ruleset is completely out of the question or even unlikely. GW just needs to math out how much the average consumer spends on rulebooks over what period and then charge that on an annual basis (with a large margin of course).

Potentially they could charge less because the costs of updating an app or what have you should be cheaper than the printing cost of books.

I suppose the issue is that many consumers (myself included) love the books so they'd have to run both products for a while that would lead to massive inefficiencies.

I would be amazed if actually buying the majority of rules books an individual gamer uses is the norm nowadays, given that you kinda need to acquire every codex that comes out to follow the meta anyhow. People certainly tend to get the physical codex for their main army, but that’s about it from what I’ve seen.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Potentially they could charge less because the costs of updating an app or what have you should be cheaper than the printing cost of books.

Depends. Assuming you would have an app in a similar complexity to battlescribe, I'd guess you'd have to employ an entire software development team all year to maintain that, at twice the price if you are using contractors for that (they should). You can print quite some books for that kind of cash.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
You want something credible?

As of now every faction (barring the truly lost and damned like Arbites and Squats) has a codex and plastic line.

Just about everyone has a flier and super heavy.

The game is done. Complete.

So GW has to do some sort of churn or people might (gasp) buy slightly less!

That's . . . still speculation. I'll gladly discuss rumors of 9th edition if anyone actually has a link to them from a credible source. I've yet to see a single one. As far as every army having a codex, didn't we get two codices each for Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines this edition? Do they have to release a new edition to justify a new run of codices? Obviously not. The News & Rumors forum should have a higher standard than "feels like it's about time."

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
You want something credible?

As of now every faction (barring the truly lost and damned like Arbites and Squats) has a codex and plastic line.

Just about everyone has a flier and super heavy.

The game is done. Complete.

So GW has to do some sort of churn or people might (gasp) buy slightly less!

Wow. Pretty much every faction fails at least one of those criteria.
Some still need a lot of work to get to 'plastic line' status, let alone junk like fliers and super heavies.

So, no, that isn't it.

I really don’t think we’ll see a large shift with a new edition.

Consider 3rd-7th. Over that period, one could field any Codex from that era. Granted with varying results, but it could still be done as they were all by and large compatible.

9th? Well, we’ve had three years of CA which can be folded in, no? That’s enough for a new edition, without changing any Codecies.

 EnTyme wrote:

That's . . . still speculation. I'll gladly discuss rumors of 9th edition if anyone actually has a link to them from a credible source. I've yet to see a single one. As far as every army having a codex, didn't we get two codices each for Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines this edition? Do they have to release a new edition to justify a new run of codices? Obviously not. The News & Rumors forum should have a higher standard than "feels like it's about time."

Truthfully, one of the things to consider is that with something like this? We rarely actually get "credible" sources. GW gets cagey about this kind of thing, since it can kill sales "until the new edition drops".

We might see a teaser announcement at the LVO, but I'd think Adepticon would be about right for an announce.

I've rattled the bones, consulted the oracle and sacrificed a Kit-Kat to the Gods.

The portents are good, the suspicion an attempt to deal with massive point-cost armies with titans everywhere and the vision was thus:

- All 40K models shall be re-based on square bases.

- All Infantry will be arranged in rank-and-file blocks in groups of 10, 15 to 20 strong.

- All units shall have facings (front, back and flanks)

- A unit may only move forwards, unless it uses some of its movement allowance to change facing

- Different units for different races shall have movement values.

- Psychic powers shall be renamed Magic and have different schools.

I felt there was more, but the vision ended abruptly with the screams of a thousand fantasy players

And just like that, Wulfmar was provided us with a rumor just as credible as anything else in this thread. For future reference, Wulfie, you didn't have to sacrifice a full Kit-Kat. The rumor gods are often satisfied with just one wafer.

Isn't it more likely to just be like AOS 2nd edition with Codex updates to update/power up the various factions.

At least most of the Marines are finally done - unless we get a 3rd version and the same for the supplements........... god forbid.

they're not going to switch to an online subscription model, not everyone wants that. the people who do might be vocal but I suspect aren't eneugh to warrent it.

A online only presence tends to be a game killer because it becomes a lot harder to get new blood into it.

"you can play this game for 15 bucks a month" "......... or I could get wow for 15 bucks a month and not fiddle with miniatures."

I strongly suspect 9th will be just a refined iteration of 8th - as noted above, similar to AoS --> AoS 2.0.

I suspect the main changes will be to:

- CP generation (inspired by Armageddon's handling)
- Subfaction traits (as seen from PA)
- Consolidation of new/primaris units into various SM codexes
- Continued regulation of older (mostly finecast) models to legends and disappearance from codexes
- Continued loss of options for units towards an A/B loadout

BrianDavion wrote:
they're not going to switch to an online subscription model, not everyone wants that. the people who do might be vocal but I suspect aren't eneugh to warrent it.

Well, not everyone wanted story progression either, I suspect more people didn't want it, and yet here we are .
Doesn't matter if people want it or not, if we got no other choice to get rules we'll buy it.

BrianDavion wrote:
they're not going to switch to an online subscription model, not everyone wants that. the people who do might be vocal but I suspect aren't eneugh to warrent it.

A online only presence tends to be a game killer because it becomes a lot harder to get new blood into it.

"you can play this game for 15 bucks a month" "......... or I could get wow for 15 bucks a month and not fiddle with miniatures."

Why not both? Either buy books and free faq/errata with chapter approved doing its thing, or a subscription service to unlock either select or all rules plus updates for x per month. Include a good quality army builder and it'd be popular.

A subscription-only rule system would cause issues for future boxsets like Dark Imperium or Soul Wars. They would be entering the hassle of software requirements...

Requires a PC with an internet connection or a smart phone with either Android 6.0 or the latest Apple OS, and a Warhammer digital account.

...assistants in their stores would then have to deal with customers who have issues setting up accounts and displaying the pdfs. Giving players a digital option is great because you have physical copies available should such problems arise; if the problem cannot be solved for whatever reason you can at least, out of good will, send them a physical copy to resolve the matter and keep the customer happy. While GW takes the odd £5 loss, they don't have to go through the refund proceedure and keep their loyal customer - there is no point where they have to say "well, there is nothing else we can do. Your device is simply not compatiable."

The reason online subscriptions work is because they are used in a domain that is digital and already dealing with software issues. A tabletop game, on the other hand, is not fundamentally a digital product so it makes sense to keep its components physical, with optional digital services.

The best thing GW can do at this point is to have slim softbacks of their rules and codices like they used to have, in addition to the hardbacks for the hardcore players. As a player I only need a rough idea of who my chosen faction are - not 40 pages of waffle. I need to get to the game fast and access the rules and datasheets with minimum hassle. I also want to consider other armies but £25 for each codex is offputting and don't want a book collection with too much weight.

I applaud the AOS: Gaming Book and Kill Team manuals for going this route.

I've said ti before but one thing they could do is include a free digital copy with every codex. other gaming companies do it already and it's great. the one problem is they'd likely only be able to do this for direct orders so people buying a codex through their FLGS might have some issues

BrianDavion wrote:
I've said ti before but one thing they could do is include a free digital copy with every codex. other gaming companies do it already and it's great. the one problem is they'd likely only be able to do this for direct orders so people buying a codex through their FLGS might have some issues

That be welcome, indeed!

BrianDavion wrote:
I've said ti before but one thing they could do is include a free digital copy with every codex. other gaming companies do it already and it's great. the one problem is they'd likely only be able to do this for direct orders so people buying a codex through their FLGS might have some issues

Yeah, no. That's another thing they'd have to maintain.

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've said ti before but one thing they could do is include a free digital copy with every codex. other gaming companies do it already and it's great. the one problem is they'd likely only be able to do this for direct orders so people buying a codex through their FLGS might have some issues

Yeah, no. That's another thing they'd have to maintain.

they already have digital codices. and the technology to "enter a code, and get X" wouldn't be too hard to maintain, they already have gift cards

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've said ti before but one thing they could do is include a free digital copy with every codex. other gaming companies do it already and it's great. the one problem is they'd likely only be able to do this for direct orders so people buying a codex through their FLGS might have some issues

Yeah, no. That's another thing they'd have to maintain.

they already have digital codices. and the technology to "enter a code, and get X" wouldn't be too hard to maintain, they already have gift cards

And then they have to get pretty strict about photos near books in shops, since the code would be in the book and people get sticky fingers.

I mean hell, comics do this with little one-shot stories and even then 'theft' can be a problem.

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've said ti before but one thing they could do is include a free digital copy with every codex. other gaming companies do it already and it's great. the one problem is they'd likely only be able to do this for direct orders so people buying a codex through their FLGS might have some issues

Yeah, no. That's another thing they'd have to maintain.

they already have digital codices. and the technology to "enter a code, and get X" wouldn't be too hard to maintain, they already have gift cards

And then they have to get pretty strict about photos near books in shops, since the code would be in the book and people get sticky fingers.

I mean hell, comics do this with little one-shot stories and even then 'theft' can be a problem.

You place it in a glued shut ad page in the middle of the codex which is then shrink wrapped. The books are already shrink wrapped. 2 pages lightly stuck together is what magazines sometimes have for 5-8.00 a mag. So it's can't be that expensive.

Of course it's still possible to steal it. But anyone buying the book would know 1) the shrink wrap is broken and 2) the pages are unstuck which tells you everything you need to know about whether the code has been used.

Or make it a scratch off code in one of the covers. Again, you will know if it was stolen or not. Again, scratch offs are given away for free all the time. Can't be that expensive.

At least here codexes are wrapped in plastic. Good luck taking photo inside book wrapped in plastic

(another option it's not IN codex but you get it when you buy one)

 Lance845 wrote:

You place it in a glued shut ad page in the middle of the codex which is then shrink wrapped. The books are already shrink wrapped. 2 pages lightly stuck together is what magazines sometimes have for 5-8.00 a mag. So it's can't be that expensive.

Of course it's still possible to steal it. But anyone buying the book would know 1) the shrink wrap is broken and 2) the pages are unstuck which tells you everything you need to know about whether the code has been used.

Or make it a scratch off code in one of the covers. Again, you will know if it was stolen or not. Again, scratch offs are given away for free all the time. Can't be that expensive.

And then GW can no longer accept returns of books without the code, and we get to hear the endless whining online.

No. If people want a digital book, let them buy it digital.


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tneva82 wrote:
At least here codexes are wrapped in plastic. Good luck taking photo inside book wrapped in plastic

They are...unless they're a returned copy.

(another option it's not IN codex but you get it when you buy one)

And then the stores need to be stocked with codes to hand out or they have to set up a redemption system. Nah.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

You place it in a glued shut ad page in the middle of the codex which is then shrink wrapped. The books are already shrink wrapped. 2 pages lightly stuck together is what magazines sometimes have for 5-8.00 a mag. So it's can't be that expensive.

Of course it's still possible to steal it. But anyone buying the book would know 1) the shrink wrap is broken and 2) the pages are unstuck which tells you everything you need to know about whether the code has been used.

Or make it a scratch off code in one of the covers. Again, you will know if it was stolen or not. Again, scratch offs are given away for free all the time. Can't be that expensive.

And then GW can no longer accept returns of books without the code, and we get to hear the endless whining online.

No. If people want a digital book, let them buy it digital.

Who gives a gak? If you buy something with a scratch off code and you scratch it off you are done. Think you might return it? Don't scratch it off.

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tneva82 wrote:
At least here codexes are wrapped in plastic. Good luck taking photo inside book wrapped in plastic

They are...unless they're a returned copy.

(another option it's not IN codex but you get it when you buy one)

And then the stores need to be stocked with codes to hand out or they have to set up a redemption system. Nah.

The code can print on a receipt a can be entered in the digital store. This system has work for other companies for years.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

You place it in a glued shut ad page in the middle of the codex which is then shrink wrapped. The books are already shrink wrapped. 2 pages lightly stuck together is what magazines sometimes have for 5-8.00 a mag. So it's can't be that expensive.

Of course it's still possible to steal it. But anyone buying the book would know 1) the shrink wrap is broken and 2) the pages are unstuck which tells you everything you need to know about whether the code has been used.

Or make it a scratch off code in one of the covers. Again, you will know if it was stolen or not. Again, scratch offs are given away for free all the time. Can't be that expensive.

And then GW can no longer accept returns of books without the code, and we get to hear the endless whining online.

No. If people want a digital book, let them buy it digital.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
At least here codexes are wrapped in plastic. Good luck taking photo inside book wrapped in plastic

They are...unless they're a returned copy.

(another option it's not IN codex but you get it when you buy one)

And then the stores need to be stocked with codes to hand out or they have to set up a redemption system. Nah.

Somehow every other game company selling books manage to provide digital copies with their books. It's obviously not a problem.