Afrodactyl wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
What if FNP was replaced with;

A model with this rules adds one to its armour saves, and always succeeds on an unmodified roll of six. If a model with this rule has its armour reduced to the extent that it would normally not be able to make an armour save, or suffers a mortal wound, it can still make an armour save, succeeding on an unmodified roll of six. A model with this rule reduces the Damage characteristic of received damage by one, to a minimum of one.

So it's consistently a bit more more powerful against multi damage weapons, but potentially less so because you can't save all the damage from a lascannom for example.

The -1 damage part makes it too good +1 Sv alone is good enough in most cases. There is a big difference between 7+/5+++ vs 3+/5+++ vs 3+/6+++ vs 5+/6+++. But it's also a question of what is this intended to do? Make you more resilient overall? The Sv protects you from small-arms and the dmg reduction protects you from larger weapons? Why not just increase the wounds characteristic? Nurgle Daemon Princes are AFAIK the only unit where you can't just give them extra wounds because that would put them at 10+ wounds. So in that one edge case you could give it this special rule or some other special rule or just change the toughness or let it be one of the 3 datasheets that actually needs to have FNP unlike all the units that could just get more wounds.

The intent was to speed FNP up by removing an extra step in the damage process, but by still keeping it as a "this unit can still shrug off wounds on a dice roll" mechanic rather than just adding wounds or toughness. In theory a model with FNP can shrug off an infinite number of wounds through saves, whereas a model with more wounds just gets X amount of more wounds, and adding a point of toughness in a lot of cases doesn't actually make a unit any more survivable (The better changes being T3 to T4 and T7 to T8). I wanted to keep the "it just won't die" feel.

For multi damage weapons, I couldn't figure out a way of changing it without it being more dice rolls after damage is rolled, or without it being a swingy save-or-suck. So I settled on it being a swingy save-or-suck. Obviously now it is potentially very powerful, but the damage is rolled after the save, so you may have passed one save, but you've still taken a multi-damage hit from the one that you didn't. I figured that one save against six damage (either saving all the damage, or taking five damage because of the -1) was more streamlined than six saves against six damage (where you could take six damage, zero damage or anywhere in between).

It obviously needs work, as FNP in its current state isn't easy to replicate without it slowing down the game or needing to rework how dealing wounds work. There are certainly going to be cases where this is better and some where it's worse.

Martel732 wrote:
It changes the randomness a lot.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can we do away with shoot twice abilities, like FRFSRF, I mean I'm all for stratagems, but when the game slows down for me is when the squad of Conscripts has to drop a bucket of dice on the table, then pick out the 1s, and do it all again, then re-rolls. I am fine with Rapidfire, but can 1 unit just shoot once per shooting phase? It gets even worse with the LR punishers.

 Blndmage wrote:
Why not just have FNP allow a reroll fail saves?
Just the first thing that came to mind.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can we do away with shoot twice abilities, like FRFSRF, I mean I'm all for stratagems, but when the game slows down for me is when the squad of Conscripts has to drop a bucket of dice on the table, then pick out the 1s, and do it all again, then re-rolls. I am fine with Rapidfire, but can 1 unit just shoot once per shooting phase? It gets even worse with the LR punishers.

ROF bloat exists because of the push to tougher and tougher units, and the change to saves where units are almost never outright denied a save. Cutting out ROF bloat (particularly for small arms) requires you cut back on defensive statlines.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
It does make little sense if I’m honest. But what else could you do? Maybe just a regular run, assuming that you rolled a 6?

 vict0988 wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
It does make little sense if I’m honest. But what else could you do? Maybe just a regular run, assuming that you rolled a 6?

Orders could be simplified into a single ability giving +1 to hit, advance and charge rolls and +1 to Leadership so Necron MWBD with Leadership. The idea that they should be able to either shoot or move an entire extra time because someone shouts at them is very unthematic. The alternative is making Guard stats for units that can get orders horrible so it makes sense that they're kind of useless without orders and then functioning at a pretty decent level with orders.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
It does make little sense if I’m honest. But what else could you do? Maybe just a regular run, assuming that you rolled a 6?

Orders could be simplified into a single ability giving +1 to hit, advance and charge rolls and +1 to Leadership so Necron MWBD with Leadership. The idea that they should be able to either shoot or move an entire extra time because someone shouts at them is very unthematic. The alternative is making Guard stats for units that can get orders horrible so it makes sense that they're kind of useless without orders and then functioning at a pretty decent level with orders.

I like this idea, and it’s similar to something I’ve been working on myself. Are you suggesting some sort of aura ability? What would you do with regards to vox casters?