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Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Ok, looking at the ogryns now.

The Goliath weapon limitations are nothing compared to this. None of them can take any trading post weapons, and only shooting weapon they can take is the storm welder... a rapid fire 3 unstable weapon! No one in their right mind would ever give their expensive ogryn this, as it is the surest way to take them out of action. So in effect they have no shooting weapons at all. I am super disappointed. I really like the models and I was planning to kitbash some with 40K ogryns for some variety, but I think that plan is dead now.

Furthermore, the hireable Jotun ogryn has really weird weapon prices. It comes with two augmentic fists, it can replace one with arc welder for +70 credits or a storm welder for +75. For ogryn gang the fist costs 40 credits, the arc welder 50 and storm welder 75. So for some reason Jotunn pays 60 credits more for the arc welder and 40 credits more for the storm welder...

Also ogryns can take suspensors... but not any heavy weapons...



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/01 05:40:13


   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

 Crimson wrote:
Also ogryns can take suspensors... but not any heavy weapons...

But they do have a few Unwieldy weapons.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Jotunn probably pays more because it’s a hired gun, thus can complement an existing gang.

Ogryn Gangs May get a discount precisely because they’re quite limited.

   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






beast_gts wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
Also ogryns can take suspensors... but not any heavy weapons...

But they do have a few Unwieldy weapons.

They do, but what suspensors do is make shooting with an unwieldy weapon a basic instead of double action. It has zero effect on melee weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Jotunn probably pays more because it’s a hired gun, thus can complement an existing gang.

Ogryn Gangs May get a discount precisely because they’re quite limited.

But sixty credits more for a specific weapon? That's just crazy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/01 13:26:41


   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

 Crimson wrote:
beast_gts wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
Also ogryns can take suspensors... but not any heavy weapons...

But they do have a few Unwieldy weapons.

They do, but what suspensors do is make shooting with an unwieldy weapon a basic instead of double action. It has zero effect on melee weapons.

And you're right - I assumed suspensors removed the Unwieldy trait, but they don't.
(I was also going to say it only affects the storm-welder, but that's two-handed rather than Unwieldy...)
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




 Crimson wrote:
This is the wording on the normal ganger. Seems to me that no Trading Post weapons ever:

EQUIPMENT
Goliath Bruisers and Goliath Specialists may purchase weapons and Wargear from the Goliath Bruiser
equipment list:
• During the course of a campaign, both Goliath Bruisers and Goliath Specialists may be given additional
weapons purchased from this list.
• In addition, during a campaign both Goliath Bruisers and Goliath Specialists may be given additional Wargear
purchased from this list, from the Trading Post and from the Black Market.

• A Goliath Bruiser may only be equipped with weapons chosen from the Basic Weapons, Pistols and Close
Combat Weapons sections of this list.
• Once promoted, a Goliath Specialist has no restrictions upon the types of weapon they can take from this list;
all weapon types within this list become available.


Compare to the champion:

EQUIPMENT
A Goliath Forge Boss may purchase weapons and Wargear from the Goliath Forge Boss equipment list:
• During the course of a campaign, a Goliath Forge Boss may be given additional weapons and Wargear
purchased from this list, from the Trading Post and from the Black Market.

• A Goliath Forge Boss has no restrictions upon the types of weapon they can take; all weapon types
are available.


Seems intentional, though it is easy to miss.



My only major issue with the way they have restricted weapon types is they have restricted weapons provided on the sprue and in upgrade packs. Fair enough special weapons, but Renderizer and chainswords seem odd to restrict. Power axe i understand but to restrict the signature weapon of the gang to only champions, who have access to a host of other items, seems a bit of an odd choice.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Currently jonesing for the next book.

   
Made in gb
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

When are we expecting it, April?

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Perhaps May, as it’s quarterly.

But I love my Necromunda.

Hey.....hey man.....can you spare a brother a dime for a Juve? Just a dime. C’mon man. I’ve got five Gangers to paint!

   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut





stato wrote:

My only major issue with the way they have restricted weapon types is they have restricted weapons provided on the sprue and in upgrade packs. Fair enough special weapons, but Renderizer and chainswords seem odd to restrict. Power axe i understand but to restrict the signature weapon of the gang to only champions, who have access to a host of other items, seems a bit of an odd choice.

Yes, you are exactly right! The FW upgrades were damn expensive, and now many minis are "illegal" for gangers and juves. On the other side, these types of limitations are weird and arbitrary. What happens if you break the rules and give a chainsword to a ganger? The game is not going to collapse. There are far more OP and deadly options out there. I think we need to increasingly break the rules of this game to play it how we want to.

The new equipment lists makes everything so complicated (RAW). A prospect can be given a powerfist legally, but it would be illegal to give the prospect a brute cleaver instead? I don't see any reasoning for this.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/06 15:41:10


 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Baxx wrote:

Yes, you are exactly right! The FW upgrades were damn expensive, and now many minis are "illegal" for gangers and juves. On the other side, these types of limitations are weird and arbitrary. What happens if you break the rules and give a chainsword to a ganger? The game is not going to collapse. There are far more OP and deadly options out there. I think we need to increasingly break the rules of this game to play it how we want to.

The new equipment lists makes everything so complicated (RAW). A prospect can be given a powerfist legally, but it would be illegal to give the prospect a brute cleaver instead? I don't see any reasoning for this.


Yeah I think opening up trading post options (or even just Forge Boss options) to Specialists may be the way to go. Im happy with narrative limitation, but a Ganger being allowed meltagun, but not a chainsword or Renderizer, thats silly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do we have any anticipation of a new weapon upgrade release? Goliath weapon pack 3?

What are we missing;
Combi bolter-grenade launcher
Paired Spudjackers
Weapons of Prospects (stub guns especially)
...?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/10 10:31:23


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Wait, so Newcromunda has gone full Deathwatch Codex with it's weapon and wargear restrictions, removing anything that isn't explicitly allowed by the kits?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Quite the opposite.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, was overly brief.

Some Gang members can only ever pick from their house list - but it tends to just be Gangers as a fighter type. But there are combinations not currently covered.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/11 12:09:36


   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

So there are gangers who can't even get stuff from the trading post?

[EDIT]: No, it says they can have Wargear from the trading post/black market. You can't give a Goliath ganger a Lasgun. You can't give a Goliath Juve an Autopistol. This is stupid.

No model/no rule has come to Necromunda.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/11 12:25:21


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Easy enough to house rule though.

   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Not the point, Grotsnik.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

It hasn't quite got that far, but i can see your point. Champs and Leaders can have anything in the trading post/black market.

I don't think no model no rules is the driver here
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

What are you all on about? I’m reading the trading post rules in HoC now and the only limitation is when the gang is founded, as it’s always been.

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

"During the course of a campaign both Goliath Bruisers and Goliath Specialists may be given additional weapons purchased from this list."

Right there in black and white.

The next one says:

"In addition, during a campaign both Goliath Bruisers and Goliath Specialists may be given additional Wargear purchased from this list, from the Trading Post, and from the Black Market."

And before you say it, Wargear are not weapons. Wargear is its own main category that encompass Grenades, Armour, Personal Equipment and Weapon Accessories.

Next up:

"A Goliath Bruisers may only be equipped with weapons chosen from the Basic Weapons, Pistols, and Close Combat Weapons sections of this list."

Again, in black and white.

And finally:

"Once promoted, a Goliath Specialist has no restrictions upon the types of weapons they can take from this list; all weapon types within this list become available."

It's the same for the others as well.

No model/no rule is enshrined upon Necromunda with these new treading water books. Absolutely fething despicable.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/11 12:48:06


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Still a simple fix for the Arbitrator, even if they come up with an amended list to stop a mad dash for certain heavy weapons.

Irritating, sure. But easily sorted, one way or the other.

   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
... snip ...


Considering the hired guns, hangers on and other assorted ne'er do wells in the book that don't have models (as of yet and not including the Ogryns) I disagree. Yes, the Bruisers and Bullies don't get a free for all in the expanded houselist, and we can debate the merits of that, but this is far from no model no rules.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

You'll note that they don't get access to plasma guns, 'cause there ain't no plasma guns in the FW packs.

Nah. It's no model/no rule. It's infected this game like it has every other - just took 'em three tries at the Goliath rules (technically 4) to force it in there.

If Necromunda was coming out today you can guarantee it would look like WarCry. That's GW's ideal "endgame" for a skirmish game - monopose units with set weapon loadouts. All on cards.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/11 12:59:40


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Except the Warcry sets were made to slot into Warcry AND AoS. So having loads and loads of varied weapons would work for a more complex warcry, but utterly fail for AoS where units basically just want one weapon type.


Plus if you want to use all the armies in the game in warcry you can't have billions of variable weapons for a few groups and then have others with no choices.

Warcry and Necromunda are totally separate projects. One is a totally stand-alone game; the other is a bolt-on skirmish style game for a wargame.


Don't forget AT also has a lot of varied weapon options and expansion weapon packs for the titans. Again its a different style and structure of game.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Nah. It's no model/no rule. It's infected this game like it has every other - just took 'em three tries at the Goliath rules (technically 4) to force it in there.


Course you can get plasma guns - just go to the market place and slap it on a champ. But there's no more free for alls and hypothetical late campaign games where skrub gangers all rock up with plasma guns and/or grenade launchers.

As said, I disagree as there's plenty of examples in the book of rules with no models. The House Greim agent, all the hired guns, the hangers on, the full trading post/black market for Champions/Leaders. Also, nothing stopping you ransoming a ganger for a piece of equipment from another gang.
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




The restrictions on Ganger weapons is just the current version of what they were very open about at the beginning. Your gangers are not the ones you should be focusing on, they are there as your fodder, make the leaders, champs and Juves your focus.

People are still obsessed about optimizing every model, rather than just play the game knowing they will all end up with injury anyway at some point.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Leaders and Champions can still take any weapon from the Trading Post or Black Market, so H.B.M.C. is demonstrably exaggerating (a polite way of saying "lying," but let's be honest).

Tighter restrictions on Gangers' weapons is a huge positive for the game, and anyone who has played a gang with 6 Grenade Launchers in it will know that's the truth.

You can get hyper-focused on the minutia, like HWY CAN'T THIS GANGER TAKE A LASGUN??. Yeah, that makes no sense. It also makes no sense that his bolt pistol only shoots the equivalent of 30 feet. It makes no sense that, while engaged in the act of punching, exactly 50% of his punches hit.

The game is a rough simulation, and it is entirely meet that the houses should be differentiated according to the weaponry their rank and file customarily use. I've never wanted a Carnifex with a Battlecannon arm, either.
   
 
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