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Made in au
[MOD]
Cutting stuff up and bunging it back together in new and interesting ways.






Under the couch

Yeah, it's a thing, alright.

My other favorite is the cranky report that says 'Why is this sort of thing allowed?'

Or the variation: 'I got a warning for this! Why is this person allowed to do it?'

To which the answer would usually be: 'It's not OK, but you've only just reported, and I don't have a time machine to remove it before I see it...'

Adding a description of helpful, but so is remembering that the mod alert is often the first we will have seen of a problem post. Even in a thread where a mod has been active, stuff can be missed the first time through when you're reading in a hurry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Excommunicatus wrote:

So why, exactly?

Because you have posted exactly what I did, in composite. Am I to understand that separating the concept of rancid tuna-salad from the concept of an anus somehow saves it? If the whole is beyond the pale, how comes the parts of it aren't?

It wasn't off-topic; it wasn't rudely aimed at another poster; it didn't mention, reference or invoke either politics or religion; I didn't dodge the swear-filter and moderating it was arbitrary and capricious.

The existence of the words isn't the problem. The specific usage of them was.

Would you use that phrase in front of your grandmother?

And while I'm sure you'll reply to that to assure me that you would, or that your grandmother would say worse in the middle of a church sermon, for most of us it's simply not something that fits in any way into polite discussion. And I very strongly suspect that you know that, and are just stirring the pot here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/22 21:47:02


 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

I apologize for all the reports I made that said only, “Really???”

My bad.

   
Made in au
Fixture of Dakka





Melbourne

 BrookM wrote:
Forty-two alerts by one person.. forty-two alerts I had to go through.
Just out of interest, if a person was ever to find themselves in the situation where the reporting of that many posts was needed, would it be more efficient/effective/whatever/etc to manually report those posts, or to directly message a mod (preferably one who shows as being online)?

Are the individual reports handy for record keeping or does it just end up being a quagmire of confusion?

My Blogs -
Hobby Blog - Currently lots of stuff
Terrain - Currently Middle Earth ruins.
My Instagram - I don't post much. 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Cutting stuff up and bunging it back together in new and interesting ways.






Under the couch

If it's forty two alerts on a single thread, about multiple posters, it would ultimately be better to just report the post that starts things off, and add a note to the effect that the thread from then on is a trainwreck.

It it's a single user, and they have 42 posts that you legitimately think need attention, then PMing a mod about it would be more practical. We can look at their post history and work from there.

We don't keep a record of alerts - once they're actioned, they're deleted, and any relevant notes are made in the poster's individual file.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/22 23:53:20


 
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike






 RiTides wrote:
Actually it was a line about eating something rancid out of your own, but yes, anything like that will result in a warning anytime. I'll also note I sent you a PM explaining it, didn't apply a suspension (although technically after a certain number of warnings they're supposed to be automatic) and received no reply from you...


Can affirm that you get a ban on your fifth warning... even if those warnings are up to nine years apart and were issued for different reasons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/23 07:27:52


 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Cutting stuff up and bunging it back together in new and interesting ways.






Under the couch

Not anymore. The system used to automatically apply a short suspension after 5 warnings, but that's been turned off so that we can apply some discretion in cases like that.

 
   
Made in ca
[MOD]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Jidmah - Yeah we've got some discretion with it now, although it's supposed to kick in at 5 (for reference, most users never get a single one). In your case, getting in my time machine looks like you had 1 way back in 2011, 3 in 2018, and 1 in 2020. So not quite the 9 year break (although nice streak from 2012-2017!!).

It also looks like you got caught up in us trying to crack down on the psychic awakening stuff, where we've had the most wargaming-related alerts and issues, by far, and was also the inspiration for this thread being created by the OP to ask for More intervention. It's just a very passionate topic of disagreement for a lot of our users it seems!

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2020/04/23 12:24:01


 
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike






 RiTides wrote:
Jidmah - Yeah we've got some discretion with it now, although it's supposed to kick in at 5 (for reference, most users never get a single one). In your case, getting in my time machine looks like you had 1 way back in 2011, 3 in 2018, and 1 in 2020. So not quite the 9 year break (although nice streak from 2012-2017!!).

Yeah, turns out sleep deprivation from caring for a toddler doesn't mix well with posting in heated discussions.
The first four warnings were well deserved.

It also looks like you got caught up in us trying to crack down on the psychic awakening stuff, where we've had the most wargaming-related alerts and issues, by far, and was also the inspiration for this thread being created by the OP to ask for More intervention. It's just a very passionate topic of disagreement for a lot of our users it seems!

The warning was for spam, not for violating rule#1 like the others. I did discuss this in great length with ingtaer and had it reviewed by BrookM, who both were perfect professionals about it.
In the end I just accepted that our view on what spam is differs. As a result, I've decided just to not post on an PA threads anymore, except when I'm jumping between tabs and don't realize I am in such a thread when replying. Saves all of our time for more valuable things

What I think could help in addition to the measures you already have taken would be explicitly banning the topics that keep taking threads on new releases off topic for the N&R forum:
- marines get too many releases
- why poster's faction deserves a release more than whoever the new release is for
- why the faction didn't deserve a release
- complaining about the new thing being better than whatever poster's faction has (no one in specific, there are multiple people doing this).
I've let myself be baited into those kind of discussion multiple times, but there really is no point in them.

Besides that, I'd like to tell you once again that you are all doing a great job. I used to moderate a large forum, and know how much of a PITA cleaning after people like me is.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in ca
[MOD]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Yeah, those are exactly the rabbit holes we're dealing with in PA in particular!

And I can totally relate to the toddler / lack of sleep thing, like I said that was an awesome streak and usually, if there are big gaps or it's for something completely unrelated, we try to take that into account. But the PA stuff has been a bit of a runaway train for sure
   
Made in jp
Long-Range Black Templar Land Speeder Pilot





Ishikawa Prefecture, Japan

Yo! I just wanna say that I had a look in at the 'rona thread earlier...

...man, those boys are really making you earn your crux terminatus'.

I for one think the mods on here do a really good job for the most part, and I wanna thank you for wading into fairly common keyboard-toddler brawls and sorting stuff out, so that we all have a fun place to talk about playing with our little men.
I've had my fair share of slaps on the wrist (some very well-deserved, for being a troll-y little gak ball), but honestly, you guys really do a decent job, and quickly, too.
Superdooper especially ingtaer, because he gave me some old knight legs for free from the other side of the world one time and that was very nice of him.

I think, given the increased traffic, boredom, and tension generated by the various lockdowns (oh boy, I've just been sent to work from home, prepare your butts) that maybe a new mod, or a temporary mod might be a good shout?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/23 13:50:29


Ongoing P&M shennanigans!
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Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

I think a temp mod, or rushing a new mod into the mix could end up being counter productive. It takes time to teach somebody procedures, as well as give them a grounding in how to handle different situations.

I'm pretty sure the number 1 complaint about moderation is that it's inconsistent, which of course mostly arises from the fundamental attribution error, not any actual inconsistency. I think that the Dakka team does make an effort to be consistent, and that takes time.

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 21,000pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

 Polonius wrote:
I think a temp mod, or rushing a new mod into the mix could end up being counter productive. It takes time to teach somebody procedures, as well as give them a grounding in how to handle different situations.

I'm pretty sure the number 1 complaint about moderation is that it's inconsistent, which of course mostly arises from the fundamental attribution error, not any actual inconsistency. I think that the Dakka team does make an effort to be consistent, and that takes time.


I find that people cry inconsistent far more than it actually is. Often because people only see their own personal experiences and public warnings/banning. So if they get told off for doing something, but don't see others being visibly told off they assume they are being singled out; when in reality more goes on behind the scenes than they see.


That said moderation does end up being somewhat variable based on the mods you get; which is why drafting new mods does take time. Another aspect is that even as a new mod (I've started modding on another site recently) it takes time to get used to the standards and process. So you do every much end up like a spare wheel just dealing with spambots at first until you learn how the rules are interpreted and put into force in a practical sense. Even if you're used to modding on one site, it takes time to get used to a new site and a new way of operating,

   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

 Overread wrote:
 Polonius wrote:
I think a temp mod, or rushing a new mod into the mix could end up being counter productive. It takes time to teach somebody procedures, as well as give them a grounding in how to handle different situations.

I'm pretty sure the number 1 complaint about moderation is that it's inconsistent, which of course mostly arises from the fundamental attribution error, not any actual inconsistency. I think that the Dakka team does make an effort to be consistent, and that takes time.


I find that people cry inconsistent far more than it actually is. Often because people only see their own personal experiences and public warnings/banning. So if they get told off for doing something, but don't see others being visibly told off they assume they are being singled out; when in reality more goes on behind the scenes than they see.


That said moderation does end up being somewhat variable based on the mods you get; which is why drafting new mods does take time. Another aspect is that even as a new mod (I've started modding on another site recently) it takes time to get used to the standards and process. So you do every much end up like a spare wheel just dealing with spambots at first until you learn how the rules are interpreted and put into force in a practical sense. Even if you're used to modding on one site, it takes time to get used to a new site and a new way of operating,


I agree 100% that most inconsistencies are because people bend what they see to match the idea that when they make a lousy post they are good people who made a mistake, while others are bad people who posted poorly becasue they are bad. that's the fundamental attribution error.

You also have people, including in this thread, who basically want, in writing, exactly how disruptive/rude/gross they can be. They obviously are so far from the actual idea that you should be posting positive, on topic material that they are only ever going to be upset about rules.

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 21,000pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in gb
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






I let that poster get to me today again. Just the mere sight of them sets me off, and the ignore button doesn’t cut it. If I’m honest, the way things are going, I probably won’t make it.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Something that I keep seeing in that coronavirus thread is specific individuals are repeating disinformation that cannot be refuted without engaging in specific political discourse.

And it's infuriating that it is being allowed.
   
Made in us
Ancient Chaos Terminator





Eye of Terror

 Jidmah wrote:
What I think could help in addition to the measures you already have taken would be explicitly banning the topics that keep taking threads on new releases off topic for the N&R forum:
- marines get too many releases
- why poster's faction deserves a release more than whoever the new release is for
- why the faction didn't deserve a release
- complaining about the new thing being better than whatever poster's faction has (no one in specific, there are multiple people doing this).
I've let myself be baited into those kind of discussion multiple times, but there really is no point in them.

It would be better to ban people who ask for bans on these subjects.

The mass flagging, cliques and big-mother on the board is very off-putting.

   
Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets





 techsoldaten wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
What I think could help in addition to the measures you already have taken would be explicitly banning the topics that keep taking threads on new releases off topic for the N&R forum:
- marines get too many releases
- why poster's faction deserves a release more than whoever the new release is for
- why the faction didn't deserve a release
- complaining about the new thing being better than whatever poster's faction has (no one in specific, there are multiple people doing this).
I've let myself be baited into those kind of discussion multiple times, but there really is no point in them.

It would be better to ban people who ask for bans on these subjects.

The mass flagging, cliques and big-mother on the board is very off-putting.
Sounds like you are advocating for yourself as the first.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I let that poster get to me today again. Just the mere sight of them sets me off, and the ignore button doesn’t cut it. If I’m honest, the way things are going, I probably won’t make it.


Have you considered just taking a break from the forum? Getting out there for a few (one a day with social isolation) walks; engaging with the hobby with some building and painting and perhaps cleaning out the attic?

If another user is getting this much anger from you online it sounds a bit like you just need to cool off and take a break and come back in a bit. Seeing someone online on a gaming forum shouldn't be making your react like this to the point where you're sure you're going to do something that gets you banned from the site.

   
Made in gb
Legendary Dogfighter




england

I'm always getting flagged for rule one "being nice". Which is funny as its also used to suppress opinions that differ from the majority.
Instead of removing an offending word they'll just delete the entire post to make sure you're suppressed.
Then it's a couple of days ban.

But you'll always catch the regulars constantly belittling and bullying people, never get a post removed, never get a post edited while treating lesser posters as garbage. But they're good mates with a mod. So it's all good.

Or certain well known posters who constantly get into rules debates just to start arguments with asinine interpretations.
Getting everyone worked up and angry with their god forsaken stupidity.
But the next day their at it again with another topic because they got bored.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Well, if you use phrases like "god forsaken stupidity" directly to another poster, than yes, it will probably generate a bunch of mod alerts and result in a warning (or, if you've already had a significant number of warnings for similar things, a suspension).

If you see others crossing the line, hitting mod alert instead of "fighting fire with fire" really helps, and keeps you from getting in trouble yourself, to boot
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

 ValentineGames wrote:
I'm always getting flagged for rule one "being nice". Which is funny as its also used to suppress opinions that differ from the majority.
Instead of removing an offending word they'll just delete the entire post to make sure you're suppressed.
Then it's a couple of days ban.

But you'll always catch the regulars constantly belittling and bullying people, never get a post removed, never get a post edited while treating lesser posters as garbage. But they're good mates with a mod. So it's all good.

Or certain well known posters who constantly get into rules debates just to start arguments with asinine interpretations.
Getting everyone worked up and angry with their god forsaken stupidity.
But the next day their at it again with another topic because they got bored.


I gotta be honest, I'm reading some of your posts... and I think you are consistently impolite. And that's just the posts that weren't deleted! Your posts are negative in tone and reflect a really poor view of Dakka, GW gamers, and people in general.

I think that a reflective person, when repeatedly told they were violating the rules, would consider the fact that maybe they should adjust their behavior, rather than blame some vague sense of favoritism. (Of course, posts that toe the line, but also open up productive conversation will be allowed, while posts that are dead ends or lead to flames will be deleted.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 techsoldaten wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
What I think could help in addition to the measures you already have taken would be explicitly banning the topics that keep taking threads on new releases off topic for the N&R forum:
- marines get too many releases
- why poster's faction deserves a release more than whoever the new release is for
- why the faction didn't deserve a release
- complaining about the new thing being better than whatever poster's faction has (no one in specific, there are multiple people doing this).
I've let myself be baited into those kind of discussion multiple times, but there really is no point in them.

It would be better to ban people who ask for bans on these subjects.

The mass flagging, cliques and big-mother on the board is very off-putting.


You don't need to ban those subjects, as they already are off topic. and since they tend to derail positive conversations. When people are discussing what, say, Blood Angels get in a new book, a screed about how GW needs to give love to non-marines is off topic. It's not an inappropriate thing to discuss, although after decades it's hard to find a fresh angle on that one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Something that I keep seeing in that coronavirus thread is specific individuals are repeating disinformation that cannot be refuted without engaging in specific political discourse.

And it's infuriating that it is being allowed.


I think that a general coronavirus thread is going to be a time bomb, because it's an inherently political topic. We can discuss how it affects wargaming in a more detached setting, but people are losing jobs and/or getting sick in large part due to government action/inaction. It's both keenly personal and also deeply partisan.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/23 17:19:14


My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 21,000pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in gb
Legendary Dogfighter




england

 Polonius wrote:

I gotta be honest, I'm reading some of your posts... and I think you are consistently impolite.

Damn right I am. I say what I think.
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

 ValentineGames wrote:
 Polonius wrote:

I gotta be honest, I'm reading some of your posts... and I think you are consistently impolite.

Damn right I am. I say what I think.


well... then it shouldn't be hard to understand why you are sanction for breaking a rule about being polite, right?

I guess I'm struggling to see the issue.

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 21,000pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in us
Ancient Chaos Terminator





Eye of Terror

 RiTides wrote:
Well, if you use phrases like "god forsaken stupidity" directly to another poster, than yes, it will probably generate a bunch of mod alerts and result in a warning (or, if you've already had a significant number of warnings for similar things, a suspension).

If you see others crossing the line, hitting mod alert instead of "fighting fire with fire" really helps, and keeps you from getting in trouble yourself, to boot

Let's consider a different perspective.

My experience on Dakka has been dreadful the last few years. Primaris marines don't appeal to me, expressing that opinion often results in brigading attacks. The insults are often very personal and, when they don't get a rise, turn into obvious attempts to get a thread locked or a user banned.

For my part, I try to remain above it all and rarely engage when I see it happening. But I will stick to my guns and vocally reject the most egregious encounters. It sometimes means my posts are removed, and that's okay. The mods overall are fair, while I might disagree with some decisions you are appreciated for putting up with it all.

If the goal of Dakka is to become a marketing channel for Games Workshop, the brigading, banning, thread locking, etc. will get you there. My sense is the forum aspires to be more than that, but the picture sometimes gets a little blurry. Feels like threads are regularly gamed by a determined set of users intolerant of other people's opinions, who seem to have an interest in topics related to new releases. They seem to have an atypically intense need to rapidly respond to any negative sentiment.

As a result, I don't post here as much, mostly discussions on technical issues that don't catch the attention of the mob. I still talk to a lot of the same friends I've known on Dakka, we just do it on Facebook, Disqus and other sites.

That's my $0.02. Not telling you how to run your board, just sharing my outlook.

   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 ValentineGames wrote:

But you'll always catch the regulars constantly belittling and bullying people, never get a post removed, never get a post edited while treating lesser posters as garbage.


People say that sort of thing, but I can think of many a 'regular' who very much isn't around anymore for that sort of behaviour.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/23 18:57:14



 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

 techsoldaten wrote:

My experience on Dakka has been dreadful the last few years. Primaris marines don't appeal to me, expressing that opinion often results in brigading attacks. The insults are often very personal and, when they don't get a rise, turn into obvious attempts to get a thread locked or a user banned.


I'm really confused by this. Disliking primaris isn't exactly a rare opinion. I think the tide turned over the past few years, especially post shadowspear, but I think people not liking primaris is an opinion fairly frequently expressed.

Which is why I kind of wonder about your experience. I've certainly seen moods get ugly at people sharing their negative opinion, but that was usually in threads about that thing, making the negative voices really odd. the AOS threads got really nasty over that, as people kept popping in to explain why the hate the game to a bunch of people excited about the new releases. that isn't critique, that's just annoying.

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 21,000pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in us
Reading a Book in the Tower of Prospero





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Kanluwen wrote:
Something that I keep seeing in that coronavirus thread is specific individuals are repeating disinformation that cannot be refuted without engaging in specific political discourse.

And it's infuriating that it is being allowed.

Yeah... I've curtailed my posting habits for quite some time because of this. (also partly because I took time off of 40k in general and gave most of my plastic crack to my son).

Now, granted I'm the poster boy for being in the middle of thread derailments (I'd wager my history is in top 3 of being most moderated), and for that I do sincerely apologize for my contributions in this regard, which likely contributed to the mod's decision to ban politics. I do miss it though!

Only thing I would do, Kanluwen, is to simply state that you disagree with that poster's premise, and state that you would continue the political discussions elsewhere. That way, you've informed the other poster of your disagreement that gives some context to your response and let the thread know that you're moving on from that point on dakka's forum, with the door open to continue the banned topic via other sites or simply direct PM.

Additionally, I want to thank all the mods for all the hard work they put in on this site. Even though my postings has dropped off quite a bit, I still lurk almost daily.




6000
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!

4000

∞ Chaos Daemons and CSM


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

 Polonius wrote:

Which is why I kind of wonder about your experience. I've certainly seen moods get ugly at people sharing their negative opinion, but that was usually in threads about that thing, making the negative voices really odd. the AOS threads got really nasty over that, as people kept popping in to explain why the hate the game to a bunch of people excited about the new releases. that isn't critique, that's just annoying.


Agreed. Sometimes the criticism from one person isn't the problem; its the repetitive nature from a person and also from the community at large. Eventually those who like something, like Primaris, get tired of every thread about them devolving into the "I hate group" dominating the discussion; whilst they'd rather prefer to talk about the more positive angle. Sometimes you can solve it by starting another thread, such as how the AoS group has recently started making summoning and balance threads to try and take pressure off other subject with regard to those "hot topic" discussion points that can take a thread about one thing and turn it into another (often a repetition of the same/similar people discussing the same points).


   
Made in us
[DCM]
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 ValentineGames wrote:
 Polonius wrote:

I gotta be honest, I'm reading some of your posts... and I think you are consistently impolite.

Damn right I am. I say what I think.


Dude, I have never had a single interaction with you of any kind, ever, and I have you on ignore despite having no personal opinion of you. I am telling you this as someone with no skin in this particular game and trying to be constructive: you are often rude and your posts are generally unpleasant to read. You should either address that if you want, or at least accept that you're probably going to have a lot of people reporting your posts because you genuinely come across as very abrasive.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/23 19:45:15


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
 
   
Made in us
Ancient Chaos Terminator





Eye of Terror

 Polonius wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:

My experience on Dakka has been dreadful the last few years. Primaris marines don't appeal to me, expressing that opinion often results in brigading attacks. The insults are often very personal and, when they don't get a rise, turn into obvious attempts to get a thread locked or a user banned.


I'm really confused by this. Disliking primaris isn't exactly a rare opinion. I think the tide turned over the past few years, especially post shadowspear, but I think people not liking primaris is an opinion fairly frequently expressed.

Which is why I kind of wonder about your experience. I've certainly seen moods get ugly at people sharing their negative opinion, but that was usually in threads about that thing, making the negative voices really odd. the AOS threads got really nasty over that, as people kept popping in to explain why the hate the game to a bunch of people excited about the new releases. that isn't critique, that's just annoying.

Dunno.

Recent examples are the Chaos Primaris thread and the WWYD with Old Tacticals threads. Feel free to look through my history and share your thoughts.

I probably don't post often enough to be a constant source of anything.

   
 
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