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Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator





South Carolina, USA

Started my Crusade experience yesterday with my two teenaged-sons (the two that still live with me). One plays Orks, very aggressively, the other plays T'au very cautiously.

Some things of note:

1) In combat patrol-sized battles aggressiveness and fast-moving units are the deciding factor. The Ork player slaughtered both of us in battles he participated in where he brought a Trukk with Nobs and a Warboss. The ability to get into close combat on Turn 1 or at worst Turn 2 negates most of our shooting ability (I'm still playing Space Marines because the Squat Army isn't ready yet).

2) Also in Combat-Patrol-sized battles there aren't many agendas that are super good. Most of the ones that involve a unit taking an action are far too risky - either every unit is needed to win, or you're going to win in a cakewalk anyway. And it's hard to decide whether to bet on yourself or hedge your bets - some of the agendas dovetail really well with the mission objectives, so if you win the battle you can get a bunch of extra experience... but if you lose you get a lot less. So far I've hedged (because the kid who plays the Orks whoops me most of the time).

3) Keeping up with the upgrades units get will eventually become cumbersome, maybe. But I have a feeling the best way around it is going to be modelling the units you use as you go along. Which is a HUGE plus to GW commercially. Example: I've got a unit of Devastators that have 4 Missile launchers. Not considered a staple of competitive lists, but when you're going against hordes of orks in one game and T'au power armor in the next, and you don't want to spend Requisition to change weapons in-between, you have to find a good compromise. These guys have done great for me so far, smashing ork boyz and gretchins with frag missiles and wrecking Devilfish and Trukks with krak. As a result, they are Hardened Veterans and re-roll 1's to hit even without a captain around. I'll probably paint their helmets to reflect veteran status, and buy new missile launcher marines to replace them in the squads they came from. These guys are "my boys" now.

4) I'm really enthused about getting the squats into the mix as well. The ability to roll a counts-as or fandex army into your crusade is a great way to get someone back into the hobby who is disgruntled about their army being removed. So there's not official Heretics, Exodites, or Corsairs rules in 9th edition. Who cares? This is Crusade, have a blast!

5) Having a storyline helps a lot. We (my family and the WH40K players I recruited when I started working at a local college) had a campaign back in 2016. All the way back then, I planned to have a different campaign every year and went so far as to develop names for each star system. This time around, I have a map of the planet me and the boys are fighting over. We've picked out regions and are fighting crusade battles until someone controls the whole planet. "The Crusade for Emmet's Star" we call it. So far the Ork player is dominating. I've warned him I'm going to bring my eliminators to the next battle...

Anyway, Crusade is a great, really solid foundation for a real campaign system. I didn't think I'd like 9th edition (and I'm cheesed about the obvious plans to squat the first-born marines) but this edition is definitely the best one for non-tournament players in a long time!

Squats 2020! 
   
Made in gb
Numberless Necron Warrior




Scotland, UK

 dadx6 wrote:
Started my Crusade experience yesterday with my two teenaged-sons (the two that still live with me). One plays Orks, very aggressively, the other plays T'au very cautiously.

This is all exceptionally wholesome dad content, I love it <3
 dadx6 wrote:

2) Also in Combat-Patrol-sized battles there aren't many agendas that are super good. Most of the ones that involve a unit taking an action are far too risky - either every unit is needed to win, or you're going to win in a cakewalk anyway. And it's hard to decide whether to bet on yourself or hedge your bets - some of the agendas dovetail really well with the mission objectives, so if you win the battle you can get a bunch of extra experience... but if you lose you get a lot less. So far I've hedged (because the kid who plays the Orks whoops me most of the time).

This is really interesting, you create almost a bubble meta and then of course get personally attached to individual units, which is how their best skirmish games have always worked. I can imagine it leads to super flavourful armies? And honestly, if it leads to people modelling/painting their models based on what has happened in games they've played I can die happy.
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator





South Carolina, USA

Also, I should note I started the previous post to agree with another poster that Crusade does change the flavor of a battle. Instead of focusing just on "am I going to win or lose?" you end up thinking too "what can I do to maximize the xp gain for my units?"

Like, can I kill two more units with this one squad and get them promoted? Or should I try to rush in with my warlord, or be careful with him to avoid having to make an out-of-action test?

Squats 2020! 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Biloxi, MS USA

 Cheex wrote:
Normal conversion is around 20pts per PL, give or take 10% or so.


It was, but the new levels have PL at a 10 pts per PL(Combat Patrol is 50PL/500pts for example).

You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Platuan4th wrote:
 Cheex wrote:
Normal conversion is around 20pts per PL, give or take 10% or so.


It was, but the new levels have PL at a 10 pts per PL(Combat Patrol is 50PL/500pts for example).


wait, really? Oh, that's interesting, I hadn't noticed that. So Crusade starts you with a 250pt roster basically?

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





the_scotsman wrote:
probably GSC. So many of the upgrade options for GSC are so utterly unusable under the points system that going power level will be a way to put my actual models on the table. I just wish I could do what I usually do in campaign settings with GSC which is start with almost entirely Genestealers, then progress to having more and more cult units as the uprising continues, but I don't think that's in the cards with how annoying it is to add units to your crusade roster.


It's what I'm doing. You can build a 25PL Combat Patrol with a Patriarch and a bunch of purestrains. Don't spend your additional 5 RP on units- grab your Patriarch a warlord trait, and maybe spend another on the First Curse strat for one of your broods. Hold the other 3 RP back. The most you can get in a game is 2, so it's safe to hold up to 3.

After you first game, add as many Brood Brother units as you want. 1 RP gets you 5 PL; make sure you spend back down to 3 or fewer RP before each game.

After your second game, add acolytes.

Third game, Neophytes.

Fourth game you get your magus plus brood brothers (use the conversion kit for these ones; they look like BB, but they are actually still neophytes)

Fifth brings new stealers, and the second brood cycle begins.

In the Acolyte stage of the 2nd cycle, you can add either Acolytes or Aberrants.

In the Magus stage of second cycle, you can add any of the other GSC characters.

Second cycle is also where the cult is big enough to steal vehicles- generally trucks, ridgerunners and bikes.

In the Third brood Cycle, they can swap Acolytes for Metamorphs.

They also have the resources to go after military grade vehicles.

The other thing to keep in mind is that even as new generations and brood cycles are achieved, the existing ones don't stop growing, so once you've reached the threshold to add a unit, the unit can continue to be added at any subsequent step in the evolution of the cult, according to your needs.

When I run my cult, I'm going even further, since I can get away with houseruling in my group. My initial army is a single brood of Purestrains with no Patriarch. The purestrain with the most kills in the first game will evolve into my Patriarch. I also limit what I can take by what I kill, so I can't add a unit of BB until my cult has killed the minimum BB squad size in suitable models; this represents the fact that the stealers aren't killing their victims; they are bestowing the curse.

We also have the luxury of playing in a campaign that includes NPC armies, so BB can also be left as "Sleepers" in NPC armies in order to sabotage, and they diminish the size of the enemy army once they leave to join the cult as full members. Neither of these things can happen vs. player armies.

So the Cults in our Campaign mostly attack NPCs and try to avoid detection by the other players. Once their cults are fully developed, then they can begin their actual uprising and attack other players. And of course there is a chance that other players can find them early and disrupt their plans- but if they are smart and careful cults have the capacity to grow quickly.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Biloxi, MS USA

the_scotsman wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:
 Cheex wrote:
Normal conversion is around 20pts per PL, give or take 10% or so.


It was, but the new levels have PL at a 10 pts per PL(Combat Patrol is 50PL/500pts for example).


wait, really? Oh, that's interesting, I hadn't noticed that. So Crusade starts you with a 250pt roster basically?


Crusade forces start with a 50 PL limit(pg. 307).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/04 15:19:28


You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws



Sioux Falls, SD

I would really like to do crusade, I would run my custom successor BA chapter as I would be a great way to build some lore for them, just gotta get some local players to try it as well.

Blood for the bloo... wait no, I meant for Sanguinius!  
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




 Platuan4th wrote:
 Cheex wrote:
Normal conversion is around 20pts per PL, give or take 10% or so.


It was, but the new levels have PL at a 10 pts per PL(Combat Patrol is 50PL/500pts for example).


My understanding was when they called out PL limits, it was a total between both players, so 25 each or 30/20 split or whatever.

But I'm planning on playing crusade with Thousand Sons, when I can get my friends to try it out with me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/04 19:17:47


 
   
Made in au
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






 Platuan4th wrote:
 Cheex wrote:
Normal conversion is around 20pts per PL, give or take 10% or so.


It was, but the new levels have PL at a 10 pts per PL(Combat Patrol is 50PL/500pts for example).

Not true. Combat Patrol is 50PL total, not per player.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/04 19:55:51


 
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

While I've played several simulated games of 9th with friends to test the rules, I haven't had the opportunity for more social Crusades. (Narrative games just aren't the same online.) That being said, I've played around with hypothetical roster progression. In my case, I play a pretty even split of AdMech and Knights in matched play. Trouble is, Knights are especially awkward to soup into a Crusade roster. They need a minimum of 27 PL to take 3 Armiger Knights, which would take 6 games to add (and another 5 to include one real Knight). Almost every other faction can get a Patrol detachment going for less than 10 PL.

Of course, this isn't gamebreaking in any way. You're not supposed to field your whole roster at all times, and you won't play at every new 5 PL increment. Still, there may be something to be said for the negative experience of having to wait 5 or 6 games before getting a reward. It's going to lead to some awkward spreadsheet management, as you're tempted to cut existing experienced units to fit the larger ones in sooner. Maybe that's just emergent gameplay.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/04 21:24:36


Coordinator for San Diego At Ease Games' Crusade League. Full 9 week mission packets and league rules available: Lon'dan System Campaign.
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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Biloxi, MS USA

 Cheex wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:
 Cheex wrote:
Normal conversion is around 20pts per PL, give or take 10% or so.


It was, but the new levels have PL at a 10 pts per PL(Combat Patrol is 50PL/500pts for example).

Not true. Combat Patrol is 50PL total, not per player.


That's completely daft to write it that way, especially when having it be per player perfectly matches the starting PL of Crusade rosters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/04 21:30:52


You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in us
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot





 Platuan4th wrote:
 Cheex wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:
 Cheex wrote:
Normal conversion is around 20pts per PL, give or take 10% or so.


It was, but the new levels have PL at a 10 pts per PL(Combat Patrol is 50PL/500pts for example).

Not true. Combat Patrol is 50PL total, not per player.


That's completely daft to write it that way, especially when having it be per player perfectly matches the starting PL of Crusade rosters.

Incursion is 50PL per army, so just start there?

   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator





South Carolina, USA

You absolutely can play Crusade Combat Patrol battles at 30/20, but if you do, the player with the 20 PL army gets an additional FIVE command points at the start of the game.

And, of course, that's assuming that both armies have no "extras" like warlord traits, relics, specialist strategems applied, etc. You could easily end up with a 20 PL army that costs 25 Crusade Points against another players "scratch" 25 PL army.

Squats 2020! 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought




San Jose, CA

You can start a crusade at any PL you want, GW isnt gonna kick in your door and stop you!
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





The other thing is you get 5 RP to start, so if you burn all 5 to increase your supply limit, you DO start at 50.

So if you can get 3 Armigers for 27 PL, just burn one of your starting RP to get to supply limit 30, and you're good to go.

And yeah, Racerguy is also correct, you can start at whatever PL you want.
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought




San Jose, CA

PenitentJake wrote:
The other thing is you get 5 RP to start, so if you burn all 5 to increase your supply limit, you DO start at 50.

So if you can get 3 Armigers for 27 PL, just burn one of your starting RP to get to supply limit 30, and you're good to go.

And yeah, Racerguy is also correct, you can start at whatever PL you want.


we were planning on starting with 2500pts total army with no additions. then from that pool of points, write a list @ the appropriate PL/PTS level. once the first battle is completed, then you can add to that list with units from your overall 2500pts. Any unit that get bonuses/minuses still is effected by them.

that way it represents a battleforce deploying several missions at once and you do not get any reinforcements other than what is currently available "in system".
   
Made in gb
Twisting Tzeentch Horror






 dadx6 wrote:

...

Anyway, Crusade is a great, really solid foundation for a real campaign system. I didn't think I'd like 9th edition (and I'm cheesed about the obvious plans to squat the first-born marines) but this edition is definitely the best one for non-tournament players in a long time!


Agree with everything said here 100%

Crusade is great. Had round one between three of us of what will pan out to be a very long campaign

Combat patrol is for sure a very interesting size of game. You have so little units that every little thing matters that single bolt pistol, that half an inch here or there. It definitely has its own sort of meta in that hitting units early/removing your opponents lethality is very very important.

The paperwork is a little cumbersome but it's going to help massively as things start increasing in size


We played it so that you have an order of battle (as stated) of 50 PL but playing 25PL limit each game. This allows some unit swapping/mixing things up which definitely makes things much more interesting as you aren't locked into doing one thing

 insaniak wrote:

You can choose to focus on the parts of a hobby that make you unhappy, or you can choose to focus on the parts that you enjoy.
 
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




 dadx6 wrote:
You absolutely can play Crusade Combat Patrol battles at 30/20, but if you do, the player with the 20 PL army gets an additional FIVE command points at the start of the game.


Yeah, but I was just offering the reasoning for doing PL as a total - it's not always meant to mean each player gets half. Narrative battles can be lopsided pointswise if the players in the game are into it. Like if someone wants to try their luck against the 3 armigers mentioned somewhere for 27PL, they got 23PL to go for it.

I know this is a crusade thread, but that wasn't an exclusively crusade tangent.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/05 15:14:23


 
   
Made in au
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






Played another two games of Crusade:

- My Chaos Lord, Xarian, still can't catch a break. In the first game, he got jumped by a Maulerfiend (not so easy to kill with a power sword) and was then humbled by a Slaaneshi Black Legion Sorcerer. Worked out narratively as this was a good reason to force my World Eaters to fight alongside the Black Legion in our campaign (if only grudgingly...). In the second game he tried to kill my opponent's warlord (who had one wound left) - got a ton of hits thanks to DttFE, and caused five wounds...only for the enemy captain to save all of them on his 4+ invuls. His inactive daemon sword grows impatient with its wielder's incompetence.

- On the plus side, the rest of the World Eaters secured a relic from under a ruined Imperial aquila, handing it over to their Black Legion "masters" (grumble). Xarian was rewarded with a daemon-imbued exoskeleton that fits under his armour (counts as Artisan Bionics). Strangely, since donning this gift Xarian hasn't been seen with his helmet removed...

- One of my Berzerker squads has levelled up a second time! They now auto-pass Combat Attrition tests when in range of an objective. Yay, I guess?

- Xarian and my Warp Talons are due to level up after the next game, purely by having fought in so many battles, despite barely killing anything between them. My other Berzerker squad is due to level up a second time very soon (need 3XP). This has me feeling insanely pumped for the next game - two units all but guaranteed to level up, one unit that is extremely close.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

A new local shops starting up a Crusade at the end of Sept. (to allow new players to get stuff bought/painted/etc. Or old dogs like myself to dig stuff out of storage....)
Initially I was thinking of doing Necrons - seeing as I have that box full of shiny new Indomitus models....

But then I had an idea for an amusing evolving/escalating Tyranid invasion.
So I'm looking at how best to combine Tyranids & GSC. Plus my Blackstone Zoat.
I envision completely swapping Tyranid forces several times throughout the campaign (I own ALOT of 'Nids). So after a few upgrades/mods (good or bad) things will rotate out out of my force & be replaced by new non-upgraded base units.
GSC --> pure GS --> Initial attacks by flyers & spore pods --> the main invasion forces --> all big things/monsters --> the clean up bugs who actually strip the planet/eat the goo.
I want the initial force to be/play very ALIEN-esque. So kill at least 1 model with spore mines, bring 1 xeno in from reserve, & LOSE the game (afterall, if I won? Their wouldn't be any survivors to take the contamination home & begin the GSC....)
I'm willing to bet that none of my opponents have ever played a game vs someone intending to lose.

I've got about a month to work it out & another month to get any additional stuff bought/painted.
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator





South Carolina, USA

ccs wrote:

I'm willing to bet that none of my opponents have ever played a game vs someone intending to lose.


That sounds like a really fun way to play. Building up to a massive army of GSC from a tyranid army, and then overwhelming the enemy in the end. Don't forget to share the outcomes with us!

As to Emmett's Star, we've decided that battles fought over areas that have been conquered result in 100PL battles (50PL per player) and had our first one yesterday. Orks have a much tougher row to hoe when Space Marines can bring lots of shooty! Once an area has been "reconquered" I guess we'll go up to 75PL. I'm not sure we'll ever get to the point that one of the players will be completely eliminated, but then we wouldn't really want that, would we?

Squats 2020! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

 dadx6 wrote:
ccs wrote:

I'm willing to bet that none of my opponents have ever played a game vs someone intending to lose.


That sounds like a really fun way to play. Building up to a massive army of GSC from a tyranid army, and then overwhelming the enemy in the end. Don't forget to share the outcomes with us!


Well, I can skip ahead & tell you the general result.
I'll play each stage of the invasion until I achieve x # of wins with it. Then switch. (I haven't set that # yet) The only question is how many stages I'll get through before the Crusade ends.
How many games I win/lose isn't really important.
   
 
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