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Karol wrote: Looks like the game is going to be a lot about rushing objectives turn one, and trying to win on secondaries. I just hope it is not going to end with one or two gigantic mosh pits, in most games.
Look at the GK list - 5x5 terminators and 3 GMDKs. No paladins. Though he was over in points and he apparently got a yellow card and busted one unit down to strikes.
In any case he has enough terminator units to stick two each onto objectives and then a fifth unit for the home objective. One might be so inclined to take Assassinate against this army and that would definitely cause a loss, because that will cause you to put more energy into GMDKs instead of the terminators, which is a fatal mistake. At the same time the GK player can take 'While We Stand', which is 2 GMDKs and Draigo trying to draw you into preventing that secondary, but its something you should ignore and instead focus on terminators.
Melee is essential and getting into a rumble in the middle of the board is bound to happen.
Irbis wrote:I like how people still whine about SM when out of 31 lists, this tournament saw grand total of TWO marine list. TWO. That's 6.5%, oh no, look at the spam!
There are also 4 half SM soups (I wonder why, when SM are sooo much better than anyone else?), 3 Imperial soups that maybe had SM, and a Blood Angels list. So, at WORST, less than 1/3 of the armies contained SM, and only half of that contained enough SM to have them as main component. Even a Fox News scaretainment show would find it hard to spin these numbers into "force them to have SM tournaments only". Seriously?
Except it gets even worse. Let's look at the winning list. The Sister/Marine one. Except ""Marines"" on it consists mostly of broken Forge World gak spam. This list features almost no actual SM from their own Codex. Gee, that sure sounds like the SM book is OP and everyone will spam it to exclusion of everything else!
Incidentally, same is true for most of Custode lists - broken FW junk for days, with few lists featuring all plastic army (but a lot of all-resin FW ones) - I really hope GW finally publishes Index FW smashing that pay to win nonsense if only because then maybe we'll have less whining about people wanting to play these armies with underpowered plastic models, not cherrypicked resin crap the books get bad rap for even though they don't actually contain these to begin with...
Contemptors are broken? How? Can you please explain how one of the few fw units that hasn't been nerfed into the ground is broken? Without any of the ridiculous stuff from out of those perfectly balanced codexes, none of which gave us any broken units or rules that required later errata and FAQs to fix? While I wait for your answer I'll be touching up the paint on my totally broken 880 point Fellblade and 680 point Cerberus. I'm so glad gw rewarded me for the money and time I spent on them by giving them such outrageouslyOP rules.
Dysartes wrote:...am I the only person flabbergasted at the blatant stupidity in running a GT at the moment? Especially in the US?
Nope, not really. I stopped being surprised by general human stupidity a long time ago. Doesn't mean it doesn't make me want to smack them though.
Yeah, but it's a special kind of stupid when we do it here in the US. It's one thing to see someplace like El Salvadore make bad choices, there's always the tacit understanding that if wasn't for bad options they wouldn't have any options at all. The US doing it is "watching a man with every advantage in the world calmly, deliberately, and decisively stick his todger in a pan of hot bleach".
True, which makes it even more infuriating.
Daedalus81 wrote:Melee is essential and getting into a rumble in the middle of the board is bound to happen.
Spoletta wrote: Are you really suggesting that contemptors are properly costed at the moment?
Really?
Yeah without doctorines and Super Chapter Tactics and all the other BS that came out becuase of the GW codex they're not meta busting see choas versions.
Spoletta wrote: Are you really suggesting that contemptors are properly costed at the moment?
Really?
For the relic? Probably not, because gw inexplicably decided to make all contemptors the same price regardless of their rules, so all the rest went up, while it went down. But I think you're getting good confused with broken, which was the charge that was made. There's a difference.
I think there also might be a case of people assuming that just because things have the same name that they are the same, similar to leviathans. It was the loyalist version that everyone was complaining about, but the hellforged was lumped in with it, even though it has an inferior invul, and no access to loyalist rules, even though it has the same price.
No one's going to mention the battle sanctum? 55 points for a gigantic LoS blocker that walls off your deployment zone and grants light cover, heavy cover, miracle dice, and leadership?
The sheer size of footprint alone makes it worth considering at that price point.
slave.entity wrote: No one's going to mention the battle sanctum? 55 points for a gigantic LoS blocker that walls off your deployment zone and grants light cover, heavy cover, miracle dice, and leadership?
The sheer size of footprint alone makes it worth considering at that price point.
Yeah, it's pretty sexy, especially since you can get your CP back on the Fortification Network detachment. Of course that means you can only take it at Incursion or higher, but that's most matched play games anyway. In some battles on a big enough board, I'd even take two; I have one build that I'm considering which focuses on MD optimization, and two of these really push it over the top.
slave.entity wrote: No one's going to mention the battle sanctum? 55 points for a gigantic LoS blocker that walls off your deployment zone and grants light cover, heavy cover, miracle dice, and leadership?
The sheer size of footprint alone makes it worth considering at that price point.
Yeah, it's pretty sexy, especially since you can get your CP back on the Fortification Network detachment. Of course that means you can only take it at Incursion or higher, but that's most matched play games anyway. In some battles on a big enough board, I'd even take two; I have one build that I'm considering which focuses on MD optimization, and two of these really push it over the top.
It's going to get nerfed. The next cheapest fortification is the Aegis Defence Line at 80 points and it's a tiny fraction of the size of the battle sanctum.
I think the Westeros GT is in sweden who have handled things very differently. They as a coutry appear to be managinf their way out of the crisis.
USA and England on the other hand appear to be backsliding or something as their numbers keep getting worse.
And, to be clear, the muppets over in Tournament Discussions who keep posting about running events at the Battle Bunker (wherever in the UK that is) also need to be taking flak for being massively irresponsible. I'm not just picking on the US here.
As a general rule, I don't think any IRL tournaments should be occurring at present.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
Karol wrote: Looks like the game is going to be a lot about rushing objectives turn one, and trying to win on secondaries. I just hope it is not going to end with one or two gigantic mosh pits, in most games.
Look at the GK list - 5x5 terminators and 3 GMDKs. No paladins. Though he was over in points and he apparently got a yellow card and busted one unit down to strikes.
In any case he has enough terminator units to stick two each onto objectives and then a fifth unit for the home objective. One might be so inclined to take Assassinate against this army and that would definitely cause a loss, because that will cause you to put more energy into GMDKs instead of the terminators, which is a fatal mistake. At the same time the GK player can take 'While We Stand', which is 2 GMDKs and Draigo trying to draw you into preventing that secondary, but its something you should ignore and instead focus on terminators.
Melee is essential and getting into a rumble in the middle of the board is bound to happen.
Oh I am not saying that this is very bad for armies like custodes or GK. It is just seems kind of a boring to me.
I wonder if GKGM and draigo are going to fall under the 1 cpt/gm per detachment though. If they do, then the way of playing is going to be non valid. I have been really happy, in general, how my army is shaped in 9th. On top of it all I got a marine army for free, so very optimistic about 9th. Just need a store to open to play and I will be good.
It's going to get nerfed. The next cheapest fortification is the Aegis Defence Line at 80 points and it's a tiny fraction of the size of the battle sanctum.
Maybe GW wants to sell faction buildings to all armies , just like they do for AoS. And there is no better entice to take one, then make it too good not to do it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/02 06:24:04
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
Played Sallies today. He was 3x Aggressors, 3x Eradicators, 3x Suppressors, 3x Eliminators, a bunch of Primaris infantry, 3x scout bikes, 5 scouts, a redemptor, and a pile of characters.
We played strike force mission 23 and given that it was a 28" no mans land I sat back a couple inches in the even he deployed his Eradicators on the line. I was fine with forcing him to advance if he wanted to get those shots off. He opted not take the bait and instead stashed them out of LOS for a turn 2 alpha. I instead opted to cross to the other side of the table with a heldrake and then catapulted it forward with Warp Time. So my turn 1 the drake was in combat with them taking them out of the equation for 2 turns minimum. The redemptor came over as well as a chaplain, but they weren't able to get enough off the drake, which flew away next turn to lick its wounds. On my turn 2 he threw up Born Protectors, but I worked through that and got a Vindicator shot off and wiped them out.
I lost 5 Enlightened and a Rhino and killed 3 Aggressors, 3 Eradicators, 5 Scouts, 5 Primaris Assault Marines, and was in a position to work down the rest of his army. We started super late so had to end there. So, I imagine he could have taken 6 Eradicators and had better odds to get work done on my units, but that would have mean sacrificing something that was up front getting him objectives. Outriders would have been a good swap for the scout bikes, but the 3++ on them is more than sufficient to block shots and score points. In fact Outriders would probably have worked more in my favor by putting fewer models on the table especially since I had two Moirax with Grav Pulsars.
I wonder if GKGM and draigo are going to fall under the 1 cpt/gm per detachment though. If they do, then the way of playing is going to be non valid. I have been really happy, in general, how my army is shaped in 9th. On top of it all I got a marine army for free, so very optimistic about 9th. Just need a store to open to play and I will be good.
Bet on it. You won't see 3 GMDKs in the near future. While the terminator list is pretty static its great to see terminators be useful and melee be more significant.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/02 06:47:21
A.T. wrote: The Galatus? That's on that hasn't seen the table in a long time (or ever, really).
Well, all FW Contemptors got a point drop (while, famously, most everything in the game went up).
There's a reason the other list shown had 3 Imperial Fist Relic Contemptors. It applies to the Custodes Contemptor variants as well.
Not sure if they got that point drop (even larger relative point drop compared to "the rest of the game") in anticipation to some changes in the upcoming FW rules. But as of now, using new-Relic/FW-Contemptor points with their old rules is very strong.
Also most Contemptors (at least the Marine ones) are fast and don't degrade on speed, which is more important than ever (combined with a smaller board).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/02 07:24:27
Also most Contemptors (at least the Marine ones) are fast and don't degrade on speed, which is more important than ever (combined with a smaller board).
slave.entity wrote: No one's going to mention the battle sanctum? 55 points for a gigantic LoS blocker that walls off your deployment zone and grants light cover, heavy cover, miracle dice, and leadership?
The sheer size of footprint alone makes it worth considering at that price point.
Just to be clear here. It is an exceptional model, but is definitely not a LoS blocker. It is full of windows and doesn't have the obscuring trait, so hiding something in there isn't posible.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/02 08:11:11
Irbis wrote:I like how people still whine about SM when out of 31 lists, this tournament saw grand total of TWO marine list. TWO. That's 6.5%, oh no, look at the spam!
There are also 4 half SM soups (I wonder why, when SM are sooo much better than anyone else?), 3 Imperial soups that maybe had SM, and a Blood Angels list. So, at WORST, less than 1/3 of the armies contained SM, and only half of that contained enough SM to have them as main component. Even a Fox News scaretainment show would find it hard to spin these numbers into "force them to have SM tournaments only". Seriously?
Except it gets even worse. Let's look at the winning list. The Sister/Marine one. Except ""Marines"" on it consists mostly of broken Forge World gak spam. This list features almost no actual SM from their own Codex. Gee, that sure sounds like the SM book is OP and everyone will spam it to exclusion of everything else!
Incidentally, same is true for most of Custode lists - broken FW junk for days, with few lists featuring all plastic army (but a lot of all-resin FW ones) - I really hope GW finally publishes Index FW smashing that pay to win nonsense if only because then maybe we'll have less whining about people wanting to play these armies with underpowered plastic models, not cherrypicked resin crap the books get bad rap for even though they don't actually contain these to begin with...
Contemptors are broken? How? Can you please explain how one of the few fw units that hasn't been nerfed into the ground is broken? Without any of the ridiculous stuff from out of those perfectly balanced codexes, none of which gave us any broken units or rules that required later errata and FAQs to fix? While I wait for your answer I'll be touching up the paint on my totally broken 880 point Fellblade and 680 point Cerberus. I'm so glad gw rewarded me for the money and time I spent on them by giving them such outrageouslyOP rules.
Dysartes wrote:...am I the only person flabbergasted at the blatant stupidity in running a GT at the moment? Especially in the US?
Nope, not really. I stopped being surprised by general human stupidity a long time ago. Doesn't mean it doesn't make me want to smack them though.
Yeah, but it's a special kind of stupid when we do it here in the US. It's one thing to see someplace like El Salvadore make bad choices, there's always the tacit understanding that if wasn't for bad options they wouldn't have any options at all. The US doing it is "watching a man with every advantage in the world calmly, deliberately, and decisively stick his todger in a pan of hot bleach".
True, which makes it even more infuriating.
Daedalus81 wrote:Melee is essential and getting into a rumble in the middle of the board is bound to happen.
Sounds fun. Can't wait to try it.
The dude who won took relic contemptors over exorcists. When your anti-tank unit is so much better than another faction's anti-tank unit that the fact that they can guarantee 6 damage whenever they feel like isn't enough to bridge the gap, that's pretty broken ngl.
I'm sorry that your fellblade sucks, but one forgeworld unit being gak doesn't mean that every forgeworld unit is gak. Sidebar: How salty you are really fethed your grammar there.
Also most Contemptors (at least the Marine ones) are fast and don't degrade on speed, which is more important than ever (combined with a smaller board).
Wut? They sure do, often going 9"/6"/4".
I think he's talking about the double the wounds for the purposes of the damage table trait.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/02 08:27:42
I think he's talking about the double the wounds for the purposes of the damage table trait.
No.
Was that FAQed?
In my FW Index, they don't go down. Even in 8th, that's been one of their "FW-pay-to-win"-perks.
Lol , you realise that the relic contemptor is the only one that has that natively and is the only one going down in cost right
And as a sidenote the gw rules Team is writing so even Double lol.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
I think he's talking about the double the wounds for the purposes of the damage table trait.
No.
Was that FAQed?
In my FW Index, they don't go down. Even in 8th, that's been one of their "FW-pay-to-win"-perks.
Lol , you realise that the relic contemptor is the only one that has that natively and is the only one going down in cost right
And as a sidenote the gw rules Team is writing so even Double lol.
Sure. But it's the relic that's been showing up everywhere since the change. And GW rules team didn't write that datasheet. That is still from the FW index from 2017.
Presumably the points dropped because it'll get more sensible rules at some point? As stated above, that is the working hypothesis.
I think he's talking about the double the wounds for the purposes of the damage table trait.
No.
Was that FAQed?
In my FW Index, they don't go down. Even in 8th, that's been one of their "FW-pay-to-win"-perks.
Lol , you realise that the relic contemptor is the only one that has that natively and is the only one going down in cost right
And as a sidenote the gw rules Team is writing so even Double lol.
Sure. But it's the relic that's been showing up everywhere since the change. And GW rules team didn't write that datasheet. That is still from the FW index from 2017.
Presumably the points dropped because it'll get more sensible rules at some point? As stated above, that is the working hypothesis.
That assumes that the prices in the ca would be sensible, which they are not. As Seen here gw just blanket changed them probably because "they are the Same". Same with leviathans, and just blanket changed them without consideration, price this one approoriatly and it Stops beeing an issue.
But gw won't because actually hiring an Editor, coordinating the rules Team, listening to playtesters etc cost time and time is money.
And why Invest much when your custommers are fine with rebuying another dex a year later for that matter.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Eihnlazer wrote: Gaunt spam and boy spam will easily win againgst most armies in 9th due to the way scoring works. But you litterally have to take 120+ bodies and basically have to just advance full tilt to jump on objectives from turn 1 and on.
If you let your opponent block your movement or if they build specifically with the intent of killing 130 models in 3 turns then you will loose however.
9th ed firepower isn't that much lower than 8th where 60 orks a turn was easy, 119 was record i faced.
List with over 200 plaguebearers were a thing (not a thing to win super-big tournaments with, but people definitely tried) before Marine Codex 2.0 hit, but as soon as Nu-Marine-Aggressors/Centurions hit the scene (even before the Iron Hands / Raven Guard supplements), those lists were just gone, even with the old -2 rules and 7 points a Plaguebearer. And that was before blast and new coherency rules.
That said, I am pretty sure you can catch people out with it, if they bring lists tuned for a highly elite meta full of Custodes and Death Guard tanks and whatnot. At least I hope it is, because horde-lists should exist as a thing you have to worry about and as a corrective against a one-dimensional arms-race in a meta going for most elite / anti-elite stuff.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/08/02 09:23:22
I think he's talking about the double the wounds for the purposes of the damage table trait.
No.
Was that FAQed?
In my FW Index, they don't go down. Even in 8th, that's been one of their "FW-pay-to-win"-perks.
Lol , you realise that the relic contemptor is the only one that has that natively and is the only one going down in cost right
And as a sidenote the gw rules Team is writing so even Double lol.
Sure. But it's the relic that's been showing up everywhere since the change. And GW rules team didn't write that datasheet. That is still from the FW index from 2017.
Presumably the points dropped because it'll get more sensible rules at some point? As stated above, that is the working hypothesis.
No unit that I can remember has ever had its points changed to account for future rules. Because you simply change the points when those future rules come out.
The reason is very simple. A relic contemptor is the same points as a normal contemptor. No one compared their rules when they threw this together, 2 contemptors? same points. done, next!.
So death guard and custodes are basically OP because they don't give a damn about all the OP stuff marines have?
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
To all the people complained about FW pay to win etc etc.
A few facts for you GW main studio (yes the people who broke the game with, Ynarri, and Impossible to hit Eldar and the crown jewel of Marines 2.0) have been responsible for all the 40k rules even for FW models since 2018.
FW said at the time they dropped the index's they were playtested against guard and eldar stuff but it was a rush job planned as a holding answer to allow people to use them.
Funnily enough GK, deathwatch Blood angles, Space puppies and Dark angles have had acess to these "broken pay to win units" for all of 8th too and guess what nothing, the units as written were not broken.
Funny how adding 4 additional buffing rules if not more with zero point's cost make unit's OP. Which was all caused by GW writer's forgetting about the units in the books they promised would be updated in 8th edition.
The roumered internal argument that got GW control of FW rules was this would happen less if all the rules were done by them, why is anyone but the hardest Codex's are God's holy scripture believers NOT surprised that once again GW make an absolute joke of their first wholesale adjustment of FW models in 9th.
Hint it because it's exactly the same story as when they took control in 8th.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/02 10:06:07
60PL 
12PL 
