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ERJAK wrote:
He didn't give a feth about the game. He cared about a massive consumer survey where something like 100k people asked for sisters of battle to be released in plastic.

Wouldn't finally updating an army where a bunch of people had been waiting for 10+ years for any decent update be caring about the game even a little?

Siegfriedfr wrote:
Remove all reroll auras, remove all army/faction specific stratagems, limit all kind of army/factio bonus to 2 max, remove the useless "hit roll".

Then you also have to rewrite all units and weapons profiles in order to accomodate those changes.

When you're done, introduce AA per battle round and per unit.

Game fixed, space marines brought back down to everyone level.

This sounds a lot like Apocalypse...

It's funny how people want a 40k-esque game, just not the 40k that GW makes available.

I'd love one based on Epic: Armageddon. After 5th edition I thought they were slowly morphing the game into a skirmish version of that.

Nurglitch wrote:
It's funny how people want a 40k-esque game, just not the 40k that GW makes available...

I find it really amusing when you get people complaining about statlines/line of sight rules in a way that makes it sound like they want the pre-8e standard back.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:
It's funny how people want a 40k-esque game, just not the 40k that GW makes available...

I find it really amusing when you get people complaining about statlines/line of sight rules in a way that makes it sound like they want the pre-8e standard back.

It makes sense though. Rarely do people want to engage in systemic change; they want to tweak things in a way that feels right according to the system. That it'll feel right some other way if it's tweaked like that is not really anyone's first thought.

Stat lines are being overhauled... Hopefully once the marine meta re-settles and new codices are released, they'll be open to re-evaluating profiles again because I don't think they could have possibly done enough play testing for half of 8th to properly balance or understand how the nature of the game shifts with these changes. It's not a bad thing at all, however, as this sort of change needs a trial and error approach. I think the game is headed in a far better direction though but that's just my opinion and personal tastes based on limited information. Hopefully the folks that liked 8th like 9th and hopefully the people that didn't like 8th will be glad that it's not 8th. 8th was by far an improvement over 7th, no matter who you are, however.

I am sure as hell more interested in playing 40k now than I have been since 5th.

Nurglitch wrote:
I'd love one based on Epic: Armageddon.

We HAVE one, it's called Apocalypse. The rules for it are basically E:A reskinned.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:
I'd love one based on Epic: Armageddon.

We HAVE one, it's called Apocalypse. The rules for it are basically E:A reskinned.

More like Space Marine mashed together with Epic Armageddon, rinsed until crunchier tables fall off and polished with a sprinkle of good vibes. It's a good game firmly in the family of Epics, but more about equal opportunity cinematic craziness at a company level rather than E:A's tighter battallion command.

Both are recommended for separate occasions

 Platuan4th wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:
I'd love one based on Epic: Armageddon.

We HAVE one, it's called Apocalypse. The rules for it are basically E:A reskinned.

Not really. I mean superficially, yeah, it's bigger formations and simpler combat resolution, but fundamentally it's quite a different beast. Apocalypse doesn't have a C&C system or blast/pinning morale mechanic, both of which were pretty key to Epic, and its treatment of larger units as a single model with multiple wounds is pretty different from Epic's stand-based system. At a basic maneuver level, the use of individual stands vs large units in blobs (that measure range from any member) changes a lot about how infantry operate.

I think you could fairly call Apocalypse something of a hybrid of 8th Ed and Epic.

Hopefully the codex releases go like this:

Space Marines
Necrons
Space Wolves
Blood Angels
Dark Angels
Ultramarines (more $ for no reason, take our money now!)
White Scars
Black Templars
Imperial Fists
Iron Hands
Random Space Marine Chapter that happens to get its own new codex here
Random Space Marine Chapter that happens to get its own new codex here
Random Space Marine Chapter that happens to get its own new codex here
Random Space Marine Chapter that happens to get its own new codex here
Random Space Marine Chapter that happens to get its own new codex here
Random Space Marine Chapter that happens to get its own new codex here
Imperium Factions Index
Chaos Index
Xenos Index
10E release
Space Marine Codex
...

Well I guess it depends on what you mean by dramatic changes. Stats are always in flux. I can remember when Terminators were effectively bs/ws 4+ and didn’t have an invuln.

They’re always trying something “new”. It’s usually something they tried before and failed at. They ran a Thudd Gun for years before it disappeared for years then came back as the Thunderfire Cannon, then they tore the guts out of the cannon. It’ll get something cool again soon.

Blast templates were a thing, until they were replaced with random shots, then that wasn’t good so they just added the blast rule to replace some of that functionality.

There used to be scatter dice included in every starter set. They got rid of those, but just created a mission that had to create a new way to generate a random direction. There used to be rapid fire dice. Jam, 1,1,2,2,3 and a Jam meant skipping next turn’s shooting. Now we get DX shots on the dakka, and suffer a mortal wound on a 1 with overcharged plasma.

Not too long ago they had special detachments called formations, and those sold a lot of models because the (lackluster unit) was a whole lot better as part of that formation. The groundwork has been laid for those to return sooner or later too.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I am sure as hell more interested in playing 40k now than I have been since 5th.

Me too.

Granted I only played like one game of 5th with someone else's army, and really wasn't interested in miniatures war gaming at the time. But from looking at the rules at the start of 6th, playing games barely more than Combat Patrol at the end of 7th and most of 8th edition, I think that Warhammer 40,000 has been on a very jagged line of improvement as a game. There's been a heck of a lot hiccups to get there (and I think 9th is currently experiencing a pretty big hiccup), but generally I think the game has been improving.

Beyond a bit of curiosity to go back and give 5th a go again with actual interest in 40k, I don't really ever want to go back. Current edition 40k might not be my favorite or even preferred rules system. But I like the models/lore, the rules work well enough for what I want out a game and I don't want to put a whole lot of effort to get in a game these days. I might still play the occasional game of Bolt Action, but for the near future, I think 40k is going to be my platoon/company non-fantasy miniatures war game of choice.

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I am sure as hell more interested in playing 40k now than I have been since 5th.

Me too.

Granted I only played like one game of 5th with someone else's army, and really wasn't interested in miniatures war gaming at the time. But from looking at the rules at the start of 6th, playing games barely more than Combat Patrol at the end of 7th and most of 8th edition, I think that Warhammer 40,000 has been on a very jagged line of improvement as a game. There's been a heck of a lot hiccups to get there (and I think 9th is currently experiencing a pretty big hiccup), but generally I think the game has been improving.

Beyond a bit of curiosity to go back and give 5th a go again with actual interest in 40k, I don't really ever want to go back. Current edition 40k might not be my favorite or even preferred rules system. But I like the models/lore, the rules work well enough for what I want out a game and I don't want to put a whole lot of effort to get in a game these days. I might still play the occasional game of Bolt Action, but for the near future, I think 40k is going to be my platoon/company non-fantasy miniatures war game of choice.

I started with 5th. It was easily the best the game has ever been. It had its issues, it absolutely wasn't perfect, but as a ruleset it was hands down superior to every other iteration of 40K. If GW had any sense they would've kept building on it instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water like they do with every single edition change. Bolt Action is a really solid game too, I love it. Unlike 40K, that game understands what it wants to be and chugs along great as a platoon-level game.

 Slayer6 wrote:
Hopefully the codex releases go like this:

Space Marines
Necrons
Space Wolves
Blood Angels
Dark Angels
Ultramarines (more $ for no reason, take our money now!)
White Scars
Black Templars
Imperial Fists
Iron Hands
Random Space Marine Chapter that happens to get its own new codex here
Random Space Marine Chapter that happens to get its own new codex here
Random Space Marine Chapter that happens to get its own new codex here
Random Space Marine Chapter that happens to get its own new codex here
Random Space Marine Chapter that happens to get its own new codex here
Random Space Marine Chapter that happens to get its own new codex here
Imperium Factions Index
Chaos Index
Xenos Index
10E release
Space Marine Codex
...

God I hope so, I'm starting to learn to sustain myself off the whining of gw/marine critics.

 SagesStone wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
He didn't give a feth about the game. He cared about a massive consumer survey where something like 100k people asked for sisters of battle to be released in plastic.

Wouldn't finally updating an army where a bunch of people had been waiting for 10+ years for any decent update be caring about the game even a little?

There is a difference between a bunch and 100k though. Some faction have very few players, and can ask for new models all they want, specialy if the old ones sell anyway. But if marine players really started asking for a primaris captin with a jet pack, they would get him sooner rather then later. It may even be in the plans already, because the RG special character already exists.

I would wholeheartedly recommend people go give Epic a spin on TTS.

You'll enjoy it a lot more.

What's the workshop ID for Epic on TTS?

There's more than one table to choose from! I use the 'Epic table with scripted tools' personally. There's a discord I could add you too.