Switch Theme:

Are there too many Imperial factions that can't fall to Chaos?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







I'd lean towards GK and SoS being immune, but SoB not being immune - but trigger-happy if corruption of their own is suspected, and with good PR to clean up afterwards.

Custodes are an interesting one - I imagine the Emperor being around helped shield them during the Webway fight at the start of the Heresy, and while they were mostly on Terra I'd guess the odds on them being exposed to the taint was lower.

I don't recall anything about the Custodes being blunts - that would imply a similar sort of protection to SoS, which I imagine would've come up in rules or novels at some point. I could see them having the training and discipline to avoid a fall, as well as some form of direct protection from the Emperor via their armour, though.

In the case of the Shiny Golden Boys, let's go with "no known cases" for now, until an example is out there.

2019 Plog - Dysartes Twitches - 2019 Output

My Twitch stream - going live at 7pm GMT Tuesday & Thursday, 12pm Sunday (work permitting).

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Blunts aren't immune to Chaos. They are just a lot lot harder to corrupt and convert.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







 Overread wrote:
Blunts aren't immune to Chaos. They are just a lot lot harder to corrupt and convert.


Last I checked, "blunt" was the slang term applied to those with the Pariah gene (as was).

While there's nothing stopping such a person from being an evil SOB - no, not Sister of Battle - if the warp can't perceive you it's damn tricky for it to get its hooks into you.

2019 Plog - Dysartes Twitches - 2019 Output

My Twitch stream - going live at 7pm GMT Tuesday & Thursday, 12pm Sunday (work permitting).

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Dysartes wrote:
 Overread wrote:
Blunts aren't immune to Chaos. They are just a lot lot harder to corrupt and convert.


Last I checked, "blunt" was the slang term applied to those with the Pariah gene (as was).

While there's nothing stopping such a person from being an evil SOB - no, not Sister of Battle - if the warp can't perceive you it's damn tricky for it to get its hooks into you.


It's sort of a major spoiler so I'm even putting the story its in in a spoiler. That said it does take basically the focused attention of a Greater Demon to achieve. It's even respected in the source that it "shouldn't happen" but did.
So it can happen, but it is rare. Certainly during a battle chances are its not going to happen, which makes those with the Pariah gene powerful combatants, but during a prolonged exposure one could be corrupted to Chaos.



Spoiler:
Ravenor Trilogy

   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

 Dysartes wrote:
 Overread wrote:
Blunts aren't immune to Chaos. They are just a lot lot harder to corrupt and convert.


Last I checked, "blunt" was the slang term applied to those with the Pariah gene (as was).

While there's nothing stopping such a person from being an evil SOB - no, not Sister of Battle - if the warp can't perceive you it's damn tricky for it to get its hooks into you.


All Tau are "blunt" - it just means little but some presence in the Warp, Tau can be corrupted.

Then there are Pariahs who have zero presence and disrupt the warp by their very presence.

Dan A makes great stories and has often written alot of the lore we use now - but he does change it to fit the story (or forgets/ignores stuff), same as other authors like ADB. Makes life interesting


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in fr
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





 harlokin wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:

The Order Of The Piercing Thorn is there any sepecifics on them being chaos corrupted?


No specific details of what transpired, which I quite like.

What we know is that The Piercing Thorn specialised in fighting Chaos, and were famous for commando style tactics. Their Canoness, Setheno The Gorgon discovered some sort of taint, and petitioned for them to be purged. She gathered a force from other Orders and personally annihilated The Piercing Thorn; every sister was slaughtered, every vehicle demolished, the Order's fortress was bombed and burnt to the ground, and the land was purified with holy salt.
All those sisters ended up worshipping Malal. That's why no one talks about it.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Lord Clinto wrote:
As I've said before on these forums, in the fluff a GK initiate is psychically monitored for a straight 99 days/nights before being given the gene-therapy to start becoming a SM. After the transformation is complete (not sure how long that takes) they are mentally, physically & psychically trained for 50 years before being considered a full space marine brother. At this time they're given access to suits of Power Armor, Interceptor Jump Packs & a suit of Terminator Armor.

SoB, while fanatically devoted, are just humans and can be corrupted like any other human.

Custodes are stringently psychic blunts and if fluff is to be believed, supposedly damn-near immortal and completely incorruptible. I believe the proximity to the Emperor has some merit to their incorruptibility. In addition, the part about them fighting daemons for seven straight years before the HH happened inside of the Webway, throught the portal under the Imperial Palace. How constant is time in the Webway...they could have been fighting for a considerably longer period of time, relatively speaking.


ok, feel a need to interject here, the custodes do NOT date back to the heresy era. they're still continually recruiting. and yes they eventually get old and eventually retire

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

El Torro wrote:
I'm not so sure about Custodes but the Adepta Sororitas are pretty numerous. If a Space Marine can fall to Chaos I don't really see what justification there is to say that SoB can't.


They are a bunch of religious fanatics who fervently believe in the Imperial Creed. That's why the Adepta Sororitas rarely fall to Chaos. There's only been one who has, and I'm not even sure if she's still canon.
The Space Marines are not quite religious fanatics, because they know the Emperor is their "grandfather", not a god, and the traitor legions' loyalty were to their primarchs first and to the emperor second. Whilst they do revere him, they don't worship him like the Eccliesarchy do.
They are certainly fanatics, but they aren't religious.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




Given that aphrael stern is clearly canon - she and kyganil have their own model - then so is daemonifuge and hence so is an entire order of corrupted sisters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/20 19:47:21


Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

locarno24 wrote:
Given that aphrael stern is clearly canon - she and kyganil have their own model - then so is daemonifuge and hence so is an entire order of corrupted sisters.


I wasn't talking about her.

I was talking about Miriael Sabathiel, Chaos Champion of Slaanesh and former Sister-Superior of Order of Our Martyred Lady.


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




Agreed. But a lot of people claim she's unique, and she's not.

Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Is there any hint where the Custodes are "blunt" comes from?

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





locarno24 wrote:
Agreed. But a lot of people claim she's unique, and she's not.
Different kinds of corruption between those two though.
Sabathiel chose to become a champion of chaos, whereas the other sisters appear to be variously possessed or mutated - those in the screaming cage are the reason why the daemonifuge exists.
   
Made in at
Regular Dakkanaut




For me the three factions in the imperium that are immune to chaos make sense.

Grey knights can resist, because of their extremely focused training and gear. Their selection process is just that strict and grueling.

Custodes are incorruptible by design. Every single one of them being a handcrafted masterpiece of gene-alchemy. They are physically incapable to betray the emperor. Drach'nyen, one of the most powerful demons stated in a Horus heresy book, that stars would die before he would be able to corrupt a custodes.

I would also disagree that both these factions are Mary sues or border on being ones (except draigo...). The Grey knights are fanatics and commit countless atrocities to keep the information about chaos secret.
The custodes are functionally immortal, peerless warriors etc etc, but they lack any initiative to help or better the imperium. Their singular focus is the emperor, Terra and the Sol system. Yet they look down on the current state of the imperium, because they know how the emperors original vision for the imperium would have looked like, which makes them massive, massive hypocrites. Most of them are also spectacularly uncharismatic.

The sisters of silence being immune makes sense due to their blank nature. They see the creatures of the warp for what they actually are, there is no beguiling them.

The sororitas have fallen to chaos as far as I can remember, even though their zealous nature surely helpes them to be more resistent to being corrupted I guess.

I think it also speaks to the grimdark nature of the imperium that those three factions that are practically immune to chaos are far to few in number to make an actual difference.
As stated in watchers of the throne the custodes can only really effectively fight demons in conjunction with the sisters of silence.
The Grey knights are of course specialized to fight chaos and are best suited for it, but they are too few in number to make a lasting difference. They are able to push back the worst demon invasions, but always at great cost. They can basically only rage against the dying of the light and thats it.
This is what makes them interesting in my opinion.
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought





Stevenage, UK

A.T. wrote:
locarno24 wrote:
Agreed. But a lot of people claim she's unique, and she's not.
Different kinds of corruption between those two though.
Sabathiel chose to become a champion of chaos, whereas the other sisters appear to be variously possessed or mutated - those in the screaming cage are the reason why the daemonifuge exists.


I think the problem lies in the wording of her fluff. She's described as "the only known Battle-Sister in the history of the Imperium of Man to have willingly turned to the service of Chaos".
Who here would say that the Death Guard turned to Chaos willingly? Or the Thousand Sons? "Under duress" is more like it.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Super Ready wrote:
Who here would say that the Death Guard turned to Chaos willingly? Or the Thousand Sons? "Under duress" is more like it.
All of them turned willingly, choosing what they believed to be the best course for themselves. Exceptions would be those like Fulgrim who were possessed, at least initially.
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought





Stevenage, UK

I'll accept the Death Guard's case is debatable, but... to me it's not much of a choice. The alternative was an indeterminate continuation of floating in the void, and eventually, death or possession, or conversion into Plaguebearers and the like anyway.
It's a lot like how people under interrogation or torture will often confess to things they never did, or even start believing that they did them.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




 Mr Morden wrote:
 ArcaneHorror wrote:
As of the moment, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, and Grey Knights all are stated that they have no members who have fallen to Chaos, minus Miriael Sabathiel. It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous. Maybe they could have far, far fewer members fall, but giving them a free pass puts them too much into Mary Sue territory imo. For Custodes, maybe as more and more are sent to the frontlines and away from the immediate light of the Emperor, a handful could be tempted and fall. As for the SOB, given how zealous they are, if anything happened that seriously shook the faith of any of them, I could see a Lorgar situation happening. What do you all think?


Why is it ok for Grey Knights to be immune and not others. After all hundreds of the thousands of Astartes have fallen across the millenia.





Far more than that.
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 Super Ready wrote:
The alternative was an indeterminate continuation of floating in the void, and eventually, death or possession, or conversion into Plaguebearers and the like anyway.

Yeah they could have gone with martyrdom and they didn't. Not the same as mind-control or stuff.

"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






bibotot wrote:
Why should all Imperial factions be liable to Chaos corruption? The true question is: why so few aliens are corrupted by Chaos.


There are plenty out there. Many are just not mentioned in mainline GW background. The primary ones in GW background proper are the Crone World Eldar and Chaos Orks (the latter of which tend to self-destruct quite quickly as other Orks tend to kill them for being "un-Orky"), but there are others in the RPG material like the Yu'Vath, (presumably) the Rak'Gol and (maybe) the Loxatl.

I feel this is such an untapped vein of background, like in the places you can go with it. We've seen how four limbed upright apes depict the gods, how about a race of cephalopods? What would they pile high in the name of Khorne for example? But we're going OT here...



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in pl
Dakka Veteran




The mere idea that any human being is *immune* to chaos is the most un-40k ever, more so than Imperium being the good guys.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I wasn't talking about her.

I was talking about Miriael Sabathiel, Chaos Champion of Slaanesh and former Sister-Superior of Order of Our Martyred Lady.



What's the source on this atrocity, and why in the Emperor's name did it have to be Slaanesh? Sheesh.

2019 Plog - Dysartes Twitches - 2019 Output

My Twitch stream - going live at 7pm GMT Tuesday & Thursday, 12pm Sunday (work permitting).

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
 
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

 Dysartes wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I wasn't talking about her.

I was talking about Miriael Sabathiel, Chaos Champion of Slaanesh and former Sister-Superior of Order of Our Martyred Lady.



What's the source on this atrocity, and why in the Emperor's name did it have to be Slaanesh? Sheesh.


Officially licenced card game

The mere idea that any human being is *immune* to chaos is the most un-40k ever


Can't argue with that with possible exception of blanks

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought





Stevenage, UK

 Dysartes wrote:
What's the source on this atrocity, and why in the Emperor's name did it have to be Slaanesh? Sheesh.

I assume the objection to it having to be Slaanesh is because hur-durrr, it's a woman and Prince of Sexytimes and all that...? If so - I've gotta say it's been handled well. Her fluff focuses more on torture, murder and hunting Eldar - hence avoiding the more obvious stuff - and she's even wearing pretty much the same as any other Sister. Bullet dodged, I say.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 Dysartes wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I wasn't talking about her.

I was talking about Miriael Sabathiel, Chaos Champion of Slaanesh and former Sister-Superior of Order of Our Martyred Lady.



What's the source on this atrocity, and why in the Emperor's name did it have to be Slaanesh? Sheesh.


Why wouldn't it be Slaanesh? Slaanesh isn't just about sex, you know. Slaanesh is about desire and sensation in general, as well as a strong theme of indulgence of the self and pride. Its why Fulgrim fell, iirc; he wasn't horny, he was arrogant.
It is entirely possible for a Sister to want more than a simple monastic life in eternal fealty to the Emperor and to live more of her life, and from that standpoint making a pact with the Prince of Excess makes sense.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/22 13:36:58


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Background
Go to: