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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






DE has a typo, 99% sure Reavers and Hellions points got mixed up b.c there is NO WAY we get 10pt Reavers lol.

15k+
:harlequin: 4k
Beastmen 9500
CoS: 3500

Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

https://maddpaint.blogspot.com 
   
Made in fr
Stabbin' Skarboy






Eradicators and harlequin stuff avoided the "point increase bat" ? whyyyyyyyy ?

Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 addnid wrote:
Eradicators and harlequin stuff avoided the "point increase bat" ? whyyyyyyyy ?


because GW wants to sell the eradicators first in a separate overpriced elite infantry box?

Dunno

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut







 addnid wrote:
Eradicators and harlequin stuff avoided the "point increase bat" ? whyyyyyyyy ?

I think Eradicators actually did get hit, not sure about Harl Q. Inn.
   
Made in ca
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot






 addnid wrote:
Eradicators and harlequin stuff avoided the "point increase bat" ? whyyyyyyyy ?


Not sure what you're on about, but Eradicators went up 5ppm.

Harlies, however, have remained 100% at current prices.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I just want to know who was abusing Outriders to the point where they were on the scale with Eradicators and Inceptors.

Looks like Tau Commanders have been nerfed with a slight points increase, which we can clearly all agree was necessary. There is some compensation in 5 point reductions for crisis suits and a bit more for Broadsides and Hammerheads.

As I see it a tactical drone squad costs 20 points a model, even though the drones themselves are unchanged. Which feels like a (???).
   
Made in gb
Lesser Daemon of Chaos





Seems to me like GW are actually basing points for units and weapons on the individual codex.

If GW believe cultists are stronger in CSM armies than they are in DG (I'd probably agree) then they should be different points.

The DG helbrute is 5pts more than the CSM one. I imagine that is taking into account the contagions etc it will be benefiting from.

A lot of people complained when Tacs weren't cheaper than CSM despite access to doctrines etc...

   
Made in us
Furious Fire Dragon




USA

Abaddon303 wrote:
Seems to me like GW are actually basing points for units and weapons on the individual codex.

If GW believe cultists are stronger in CSM armies than they are in DG (I'd probably agree) then they should be different points.

The DG helbrute is 5pts more than the CSM one. I imagine that is taking into account the contagions etc it will be benefiting from.

A lot of people complained when Tacs weren't cheaper than CSM despite access to doctrines etc...
This guy gets it!

We mortals are but shadows and dust...
6k
:harlequin: 2k
2k
2k 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Tyel wrote:
I just want to know who was abusing Outriders to the point where they were on the scale with Eradicators and Inceptors.

Looks like Tau Commanders have been nerfed with a slight points increase, which we can clearly all agree was necessary. There is some compensation in 5 point reductions for crisis suits and a bit more for Broadsides and Hammerheads.

As I see it a tactical drone squad costs 20 points a model, even though the drones themselves are unchanged. Which feels like a (???).

Commander's haven't changed they have been at those increased points along with the rest of the army since the change to 9th.
Glad to see they are finally undoing the neef to crisis suits finally.
   
Made in us
Ancient Chaos Terminator




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 mokoshkana wrote:
Abaddon303 wrote:
Seems to me like GW are actually basing points for units and weapons on the individual codex.

If GW believe cultists are stronger in CSM armies than they are in DG (I'd probably agree) then they should be different points.

The DG helbrute is 5pts more than the CSM one. I imagine that is taking into account the contagions etc it will be benefiting from.

A lot of people complained when Tacs weren't cheaper than CSM despite access to doctrines etc...
This guy gets it!

Then please explain why Land Raiders, Predators, Vindicators, Sicarans, Leviathans, Fellblades, Fire Raptors, etc, etc, etc still cost exactly the same for loyalists and CSM?
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





Ice_can wrote:
Tyel wrote:
I just want to know who was abusing Outriders to the point where they were on the scale with Eradicators and Inceptors.

Looks like Tau Commanders have been nerfed with a slight points increase, which we can clearly all agree was necessary. There is some compensation in 5 point reductions for crisis suits and a bit more for Broadsides and Hammerheads.

As I see it a tactical drone squad costs 20 points a model, even though the drones themselves are unchanged. Which feels like a (???).

Commander's haven't changed they have been at those increased points along with the rest of the army since the change to 9th.
Glad to see they are finally undoing the neef to crisis suits finally.


No, they went up compared to ministorum manual.

What is confusing to me is the new format and how drones work. Drones as a unit are 20 points each, no differentiation as to which kind. But drones taken as upgrades in units (such as commanders, etc), don't have any points attached and therefore are free under current format.

Looking at how the app functions, and now this points format, I don't think characters etc will get drones as upgrades. You will probably buy a pool of them and allocate out accordingly. Who knows? It's really messed up though.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Didn't see the post above when I started typing, so ignore this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/07 17:32:45


 
   
Made in us
Furious Fire Dragon




USA

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 mokoshkana wrote:
Abaddon303 wrote:
Seems to me like GW are actually basing points for units and weapons on the individual codex.

If GW believe cultists are stronger in CSM armies than they are in DG (I'd probably agree) then they should be different points.

The DG helbrute is 5pts more than the CSM one. I imagine that is taking into account the contagions etc it will be benefiting from.

A lot of people complained when Tacs weren't cheaper than CSM despite access to doctrines etc...
This guy gets it!

Then please explain why Land Raiders, Predators, Vindicators, Sicarans, Leviathans, Fellblades, Fire Raptors, etc, etc, etc still cost exactly the same for loyalists and CSM?
Because the powers that be have determined the synergy/stratagems surrounding those units don't require variant point levels

We mortals are but shadows and dust...
6k
:harlequin: 2k
2k
2k 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Tyel wrote:
Didn't see the post above when I started typing, so ignore this.

There is an okay build that keeps it with ATS and a relic airbusrt grenade but I think it forces you to take the missle pod with the burst cannon.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

Devourers went down to 2pts for Termagants, but stayed at 4pts for Warriors.

So they're still pointless on Warriors since 6pts gets you a significantly better Deathspitter, but on Termagants you go from 5pts for a basic Gaunt with a single S4 shot at 12" to 7pts for three S4 shots at 18".

Also, Hive Guard got cheaper.

This has just enough weirdness for me to suspect lots of typos at work.
   
Made in ca
Mysterious Techpriest






 Amishprn86 wrote:
DE has a typo, 99% sure Reavers and Hellions points got mixed up b.c there is NO WAY we get 10pt Reavers lol.


unless they become super bad in the upcoming codex. Which i really hope not, theyre the unit i like most in my Drukharis (visually)

Admech Lucius
Drukhari
Craftworld Yme-Loc
Thousand sons
Tzeentch Demons
Slaanesh Demons
Night Lords
Imperial knights

 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 mokoshkana wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 mokoshkana wrote:
Abaddon303 wrote:
Seems to me like GW are actually basing points for units and weapons on the individual codex.

If GW believe cultists are stronger in CSM armies than they are in DG (I'd probably agree) then they should be different points.

The DG helbrute is 5pts more than the CSM one. I imagine that is taking into account the contagions etc it will be benefiting from.

A lot of people complained when Tacs weren't cheaper than CSM despite access to doctrines etc...
This guy gets it!

Then please explain why Land Raiders, Predators, Vindicators, Sicarans, Leviathans, Fellblades, Fire Raptors, etc, etc, etc still cost exactly the same for loyalists and CSM?
Because the powers that be have determined the synergy/stratagems surrounding those units don't require variant point levels


Yeah , gw can do no wrong.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

The poeple over at The Hive (forum) have actually started to drop hive guards from their lists. They are just super fragile. They instead roll with 2 exoshrines mostly, and some of the FW models.

Also, I have yet to have more then one survive until my turn 1. Theu are super fragile. My opponents dakkajets always kills them. I do not mind the nids changes.

Some small changes to GSC cult as well. Mostly following IG prices on the broodbrothers (more exspensive infantery, cheaper russ, cheaper chimera weapons) cheaper abberants and cheaper transports.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Hmm not a single change, not even basic update to incinerator range. Well at least there are no nerfs either which is a plus.

Sad that abhore is still a thing.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in ca
Mysterious Techpriest






Karol wrote:
Hmm not a single change, not even basic update to incinerator range. Well at least there are no nerfs either which is a plus.

Sad that abhore is still a thing.


read the whole thing and stop crying, abhor was nerfed.

Admech Lucius
Drukhari
Craftworld Yme-Loc
Thousand sons
Tzeentch Demons
Slaanesh Demons
Night Lords
Imperial knights

 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 catbarf wrote:
Devourers went down to 2pts for Termagants, but stayed at 4pts for Warriors.

So they're still pointless on Warriors since 6pts gets you a significantly better Deathspitter, but on Termagants you go from 5pts for a basic Gaunt with a single S4 shot at 12" to 7pts for three S4 shots at 18".

Also, Hive Guard got cheaper.

This has just enough weirdness for me to suspect lots of typos at work.

Kinda of odd when your bet options get buffed and not much else changes.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest




read the whole thing and stop crying, abhor was nerfed.


While I'm glad they nerfed it, I was really hoping they would just say it no longer stacks w/assassinate. It is admittedly less of a problem now, but it's still a problem.

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
Made in us
Ancient Chaos Terminator




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 mokoshkana wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 mokoshkana wrote:
Abaddon303 wrote:
Seems to me like GW are actually basing points for units and weapons on the individual codex.

If GW believe cultists are stronger in CSM armies than they are in DG (I'd probably agree) then they should be different points.

The DG helbrute is 5pts more than the CSM one. I imagine that is taking into account the contagions etc it will be benefiting from.

A lot of people complained when Tacs weren't cheaper than CSM despite access to doctrines etc...
This guy gets it!

Then please explain why Land Raiders, Predators, Vindicators, Sicarans, Leviathans, Fellblades, Fire Raptors, etc, etc, etc still cost exactly the same for loyalists and CSM?
Because the powers that be have determined the synergy/stratagems surrounding those units don't require variant point levels

Then the "powers that be" don't know their own rules. Both fw Land Raiders, all of the big flyers, and all of the super heavies for loyalists have the "Machine Spirit" keyword, which gives them access to the "Power of the Machine Spirit" strategem, which from 2CP allows them to function as if they are at full wounds no matter how much they've been damaged, the CSM variants have no equivalent. That's good for the Land Raiders and flyers, but huge for a 600 PPM pile of guns like a Fellblade. Based on that alone they shouldn't be the same price. Add on doctrines, super doctrines, and chapter tactics and it starts getting ridiculous.
   
Made in es
Swift Swooping Hawk





 Tyranid Horde wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 mokoshkana wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Woah, apparently fire and fading lets you embark on transports now.
Where is this? Did they remove something that previously restricted it?


OUT OF PHASE RULES AND EMBARKING
ON TRANSPORTS
We wish to add an example to explain how the Out of Phase rules
apply to units. When a unit uses a rule to make a move as if it
were the Movement phase, all the normal rules that would apply in
the Movement phase apply when making that move. For example,
models in that unit cannot finish that move within Engagement
Range of any enemy models, and if every model in that unit
finishes that move wholly within 3" of a friendly Transport model,
they can embark within that Transport model following the
normal Movement phase rules regarding embarkation.


core rulebook faq


That's a pretty big buff that they might errata again, fire and fade was nerfed for a reason.


Been that way since 9th hit, since the embark restrictions was per phase on this edition so nothing changed.
   
Made in us
Furious Fire Dragon




USA

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 mokoshkana wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 mokoshkana wrote:
Abaddon303 wrote:
Seems to me like GW are actually basing points for units and weapons on the individual codex.

If GW believe cultists are stronger in CSM armies than they are in DG (I'd probably agree) then they should be different points.

The DG helbrute is 5pts more than the CSM one. I imagine that is taking into account the contagions etc it will be benefiting from.

A lot of people complained when Tacs weren't cheaper than CSM despite access to doctrines etc...
This guy gets it!

Then please explain why Land Raiders, Predators, Vindicators, Sicarans, Leviathans, Fellblades, Fire Raptors, etc, etc, etc still cost exactly the same for loyalists and CSM?
Because the powers that be have determined the synergy/stratagems surrounding those units don't require variant point levels

Then the "powers that be" don't know their own rules. Both fw Land Raiders, all of the big flyers, and all of the super heavies for loyalists have the "Machine Spirit" keyword, which gives them access to the "Power of the Machine Spirit" strategem, which from 2CP allows them to function as if they are at full wounds no matter how much they've been damaged, the CSM variants have no equivalent. That's good for the Land Raiders and flyers, but huge for a 600 PPM pile of guns like a Fellblade. Based on that alone they shouldn't be the same price. Add on doctrines, super doctrines, and chapter tactics and it starts getting ridiculous.
GW proper has shown they generally don't really care about FW when it comes to balance. If they did, those units would be in the Codex, not in a FW book. As for the rest, I guess wait for a CSM codex. Maybe the DG codex will shed some light on the future for some of those units on the Chaos side of the house.

We mortals are but shadows and dust...
6k
:harlequin: 2k
2k
2k 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot




Vancouver, BC

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Then the "powers that be" don't know their own rules. Both fw Land Raiders, all of the big flyers, and all of the super heavies for loyalists have the "Machine Spirit" keyword, which gives them access to the "Power of the Machine Spirit" strategem, which from 2CP allows them to function as if they are at full wounds no matter how much they've been damaged, the CSM variants have no equivalent. That's good for the Land Raiders and flyers, but huge for a 600 PPM pile of guns like a Fellblade. Based on that alone they shouldn't be the same price. Add on doctrines, super doctrines, and chapter tactics and it starts getting ridiculous.

None of these units are good. The loyalist version being better isn't even close to enough to make them anything but a handicap to your list.

Debate the topic, not the poster. I will not be discussing myself in relation to debates and discussions on this forum. 
   
Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest




None of these units are good. The loyalist version being better isn't even close to enough to make them anything but a handicap to your list.


Some of those units actually are good. You wouldn't know this though because you haven't actually played since 5th ...

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Thank the maker!!!

as per the core rulebook errata I can now safely deploy haruspex and t-fexes from my t-cyte again!!!

Thank you GW!!!!!!


   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

 Canadian 5th wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Then the "powers that be" don't know their own rules. Both fw Land Raiders, all of the big flyers, and all of the super heavies for loyalists have the "Machine Spirit" keyword, which gives them access to the "Power of the Machine Spirit" strategem, which from 2CP allows them to function as if they are at full wounds no matter how much they've been damaged, the CSM variants have no equivalent. That's good for the Land Raiders and flyers, but huge for a 600 PPM pile of guns like a Fellblade. Based on that alone they shouldn't be the same price. Add on doctrines, super doctrines, and chapter tactics and it starts getting ridiculous.

None of these units are good. The loyalist version being better isn't even close to enough to make them anything but a handicap to your list.
So, if a unit isn't competitive, who cares if it's just mediocre or so actively bad you're shooting yourself in the foot for bringing it?

You know, some people like the models, and might want to bring them in a non-tourney game.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Sigh. They recognized the problems, but the solutions are all over the place, and some of them are straight-up terrible. Forcing the player who "wins" the roll-off to go first is silly, and does very little to address first-turn advantage.

Similarly, they recognized there's a problem with Abhor...but the "solution" is mind-bogglingly bad, and falls flat on its face at doing what they are saying prompted the change - namely, that the secondary punishes GK and TSons too much. But all they did is lower the points for killing characters from 5 to 3! You still get 2 points for each psychic unit killed. You'll still easily max it against GK and Tsons. It makes the secondary less punishing against lists with only psychic characters...but it's still a kick in the teeth to GK and Tsons.

The while we stand rule change - and specifically the bit that lets you split a unit after nominating it, and then the opponent has to destroy *both* halves - is another stupid change that is just a stealth buff to space marines, as you can now take a big unit, combat squad it, and still use half while hiding the other half to get the points. Even worse for custodes, who can split up a 10-man terminator unit and then just hold back 1 or 2 to get the points while using the rest of the unit with no worries about it being destroyed.


You really have to wonder about GW sometimes. Even when they recognize an issue, the "solution" if as often as not a real head-scratcher.

   
 
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