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Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User







Yes, Command Squads, Special Weapon Squads, and Veteran Squads are already problems at the moment. They all do the same thing, but you've just made the problem worse with another 3 redundant options. Why include Sniper teams at all when you can just give their options to Special Weapon Squads as an upgrade? Why include Sappers when you could just give that to Veteran Squads as an upgrade?

Your Stormtroopers are only 10 points per model. That's not expensive at all. Considering you've given them the option of 1 of 3 bonus abilities, unlike Scions can benefit from the Regiment Doctrine, and can also receive orders from regular Officers. They're too strong. Especially being able to be dropped more than 3 inch. That's frankly ridiculous. The closest thing I can think of is the Callidus Assassin and they're still 3 inch + D6.


Nothing is redundant, its variety. AM is cheap enough to easily get 3 units of each end still have points to spare. All the new units are similar but all have their small things that set them apart, may it be their cheapness or special rules. Base Elysian are very limited in their number of units so expending it a little is a good thing. Fixing guard is not our job. When the new codex will drop we will change a lot of stuff to adapt to the new changes (or get out of job is GW put their fingers out of their black hole and finally update our rules themselves which would be great btw).

Our stormtroopers are 11pts (10pts for the base soldier +1pts for the hot shot lasgun), they are not troops and you can only have 3 max. The 3" drop might need a rework, this is why we need playtest and feedbacks. Scions are a half assed army and that is not our fault. They are even more limited than elysian and don't have enough units to fill all the roles, but thats GW's fault and as the regular AM codex, its is 8th edition rule. We are trying to fit in 9th and when compared and played against 9th edition stuff, we are way far behing in OPness and from our playtesting and how we lost most of the games, are also behind in effectiveness.

Just give it the Flanking Manoeuvres ability rather than Aerial Drop. It makes more sense for the Elysians to have an FOB set up a few kilometers away from the battle where they drop all their "heavier" equipment and then those get set to the battle from there.


We are in talk about htat, they used to have scout, so we might bring that back. Tauros got aerial drop from the index rules so we will see what we do after more discutions.

I would limit this to only specific vehicles. Either as a stratagem or give it to the more manoeuvrable flyers. Such as the Lightning and/or the Avenger. I'd also rename it to something like Aerial Deployment, because Aerial Drop as a rule refers to jumping out of a high altitude transport with a grav-chute.


Elysian aircraft always had deep strike/aerial drop rule so we won't change that.

As someone who's been playing pure Scions recently there's huge restrictions when playing them. These Elysians would blow them out of the water. As I said before your Stormtroopers are only 1 point more than a Scion, but are immensely more powerful.

They can drop more than 3 inch from an enemy with melta guns. Something only a specific Scion sub-faction can do, and only with a stratagem then even then its more than 5 inch away.

A similar thing goes for command squads, with 4 plasma guns they're cheaper than Scion command squads. You can also aerial drop company commanders with them, or disposable platoon commanders to still give them orders. Special weapon squads can do similar things but aren't as efficient, however, it does mean you can give them 3 flamers for cheap. Drop them and burn things with almost no retaliation.


As I wrote at the top, its not our fault if scions are like they are. Elysian are a full fledged army, unlike scions who are normally specialist and are from 8th edition, who knows what they will become in 9th edition with all the powercreeping.

Scions are 2pts cheaper than our stormtroopers, they get access to objectify secured, can be spammed everywhere and can be included in an AM (minus special rules) or as an ally to a standard regiment and get all the goodies and no drawbacks. Our stormtroopers have their own limitation, and will need balance. But we need testing for that, we have some game done and hope more will come but as of now against 9th edition armies, we struggle. I know comparing to standard guard and scions is tempting, but we are building the codex for 9th now for 8th, and I hope guard will finally get a buff when their codex drop.

We won't probably make any huge changes for now because the alpha is almost done. When more feedbacks from different sources and a lot of play testing is done, we will be able to really see what is truly OP or not, and when the 9th edition rules for AM finally arrive, we will be able to balance ourselves around it.

If you do any testing, please share the battle report and you and your opponent feedbacks
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Scions are a half assed army and that is not our fault. They are even more limited than elysian and don't have enough units to fill all the roles, but thats GW's fault and as the regular AM codex, its is 8th edition rule.


Scions are Guards most competitive units right now. They don't suck.

Scions are 2pts cheaper than our stormtroopers, they get access to objectify secured, can be spammed everywhere and can be included in an AM (minus special rules) or as an ally to a standard regiment and get all the goodies and no drawbacks.


So does this codex's stormtroopers.

・ Troops units and STORMTROOPERS SQUAD in a DROP TROOPS Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability (this ability is described in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book).

Our stormtroopers have their own limitation, and will need balance. But we need testing for that, we have some game done and hope more will come but as of now against 9th edition armies, we struggle. I know comparing to standard guard and scions is tempting, but we are building the codex for 9th now for 8th, and I hope guard will finally get a buff when their codex drop.


I don't understand what limitations they have other than being 2 points more expensive, or 1 point more expensive if they take a special weapon. Sure, you can't make an entire army out of them but you don't need to but they can:
- Get doctrine abilities inside of this detachment.
- Get stratagems inside this detachment.
- Benefit from any potential unique character abilities (haven't had time to read through them yet).
- They can take demo charge in addition to special weapons.
- Can potentially take 2 plasma pistols on the sergeant.
- Can choose to deep strike out of 3 inch (and potentially get a CP out of it).

Veteran Squads are similar:
- Can take 2 plasma pistols on the sergeant.
- Can take a demo charge in addition to special weapons (not as important as they won't be in range).
- You can now deep strike and immediately shoot the heavy flamer.

   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User






Scions are Guards most competitive units right now. They don't suck.


Yes, but the scions army as a whole lack too much to be considered optimal. (imo)

So does this codex's stormtroopers.

・ Troops units and STORMTROOPERS SQUAD in a DROP TROOPS Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability (this ability is described in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book).


I actually totally forgot we added that, sorry about that.

I don't understand what limitations they have other than being 2 points more expensive, or 1 point more expensive if they take a special weapon. Sure, you can't make an entire army out of them but you don't need to but they can:
- Get doctrine abilities inside of this detachment.
- Get stratagems inside this detachment.
- Benefit from any potential unique character abilities (haven't had time to read through them yet).
- They can take demo charge in addition to special weapons.
- Can potentially take 2 plasma pistols on the sergeant.
- Can choose to deep strike out of 3 inch (and potentially get a CP out of it).

Veteran Squads are similar:
- Can take 2 plasma pistols on the sergeant.
- Can take a demo charge in addition to special weapons (not as important as they won't be in range).
- You can now deep strike and immediately shoot the heavy flamer.


They are 2 points more expensive than scion but are not tougher, one auspex scan (or any similar stratagem from other armies) and you will loose some guys, scions as of now still get plasma pistol for free (but thats GW mistakes for month now).
The stormtroopers (and all the codex really) is not final, we are in alpha. It might looks very good on paper but one a table is useless most of the time, this is why we need testing.
3" drop might be too much, we will talk about it again but we need testing.
I play elysian for years, the drop veterans where always a thing and they never were game breaking at all, like all the Elysian stuff.
   
Made in es
Fresh-Faced New User




First of all hello, i´m from the Elysian discord, i´ve been doing some playtesting and would like to comment on a few things:

Scions are Guards most competitive units right now. They don't suck.


I have to say that i agree to this, i think it is important to say this, because not all of us Elysian fans have the same opinions, we are not a unified front and what is in the codex is kind of a compromise between diferent opinions and ideas


So does this codex's stormtroopers.

・ Troops units and STORMTROOPERS SQUAD in a DROP TROOPS Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability (this ability is described in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book)..


This was something we overlooked, it will be removed, they shouldn´t have objective secured

I don't understand what limitations they have other than being 2 points more expensive, or 1 point more expensive if they take a special weapon. Sure, you can't make an entire army out of them but you don't need to but they can:
- Get doctrine abilities inside of this detachment.
- Get stratagems inside this detachment.
- Benefit from any potential unique character abilities (haven't had time to read through them yet).
- They can take demo charge in addition to special weapons.
- Can potentially take 2 plasma pistols on the sergeant.
- Can choose to deep strike out of 3 inch (and potentially get a CP out of it).

Veteran Squads are similar:
- Can take 2 plasma pistols on the sergeant.
- Can take a demo charge in addition to special weapons (not as important as they won't be in range).
- You can now deep strike and immediately shoot the heavy flamer. .


I Think that he was talking about the 3 units limit, and that you can only take 2 special weapons. we have talked a lot about the stormies in the discord and have gone through some iterations of them, as of now we are more worried about having a good template for when the AM codex drop so whe can adjust, however we acknowled that they need more work. i would say our codex is more like 8.5 edition than 8 edition or 9 edition right now.

Doctrines and stratagems while making them powerful is something you can get if you get a scion detachment and some of them are really powerful. However i see how our stormies can get out of the power curve.
I might be wrong but if i recall they can get the auras, but character buffing is not a strenght of this codex. This wil probably change (at least in my opinion) since i don´t belive they will get core when the final update is done.

Demo charges are very important for the army, since we lack on the at department if we don´t spam planes, and missile launchers are not great. main problem with them is the 3" drop and yeah i have always been skeptical about it, even more since you can drop in melta range.

As of now we are talking about it, the thing is that every army has things that are better than other, hello full payload manticore, and we have a lot of lackluster options.

here ara some ideas: make it so it is a d6+3 drop, changing it fot 5" or making it so each stormie squad must use a diferent version of the ability

the dual plasma pistol is not an issue on out stormies since they have less special weapons, so they only have 2 special weapons + 1 pistol but i can see how it can be problematic, i also acknowledge that our veterans might need some changes too.

in any case, as of now i think that if we change anything it will be only the stormie ability and the objective secure. This is not because we don´t think the other things should be changed but because things like point cost, loadouts, and abilities interactions require a lot of work and playtesting, and we are waiting for the main AM codex to drop, since we expect big changes and we don´t wanna waste our times working on something that will be useless on a few months. Once the codex drop those things will be look upon if neccesary.

I have also heard complains about the veteran and "veteran like" units, like the sappers, it was our idea that, since we lack a lot of options (like tanks, bullgryns, psyquers that are not inquisitors, etc) we would have more tactical options "the right tool for the job" if you may, for example stormies are great, but they can´t carry as much special weapons as other options.
This is just me and i had an idea, so feel free to give me feedback. how would you feel about an ability, lets call it "veteran core" or something, that makes it so you can only take three "veteran core" units in your army this way the codex still has the "right tool for the job" feeling but we can´t just spam meltas and plasma with 3 veteran units and three sper units, do not take this as an "oficial" idea, this is just me

   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




I Think that he was talking about the 3 units limit, and that you can only take 2 special weapons. we have talked a lot about the stormies in the discord and have gone through some iterations of them, as of now we are more worried about having a good template for when the AM codex drop so whe can adjust, however we acknowled that they need more work. i would say our codex is more like 8.5 edition than 8 edition or 9 edition right now.

the dual plasma pistol is not an issue on out stormies since they have less special weapons, so they only have 2 special weapons + 1 pistol but i can see how it can be problematic, i also acknowledge that our veterans might need some changes too.


They can take 4 special weapons though. At least on the latest version posted here. The rule appears to be simply copy-pasted from the Scion one. It's 2 special weapons per 5 models, if you take 10 models that's 4 special weapons.

Doctrines and stratagems while making them powerful is something you can get if you get a scion detachment and some of them are really powerful. However i see how our stormies can get out of the power curve.


There's a shoot twice stratagem that will probably need to be FAQ'd. I think it was Hotdrop. Basically lets you shoot as soon as you finish deploying from aerial drop, which might mean you can shoot before the enemy uses something like their own Auspex Scan stratagem (or equivalent).

It also means Drop Troops might be better able to handle characters with the maximum 3 wounds per phase. As you could do some reliable wounds in the movement phase.

I might be wrong but if i recall they can get the auras, but character buffing is not a strenght of this codex. This wil probably change (at least in my opinion) since i don´t believe they will get core when the final update is done.


The best I saw was a reroll 1's to wound against infantry aura, and a reroll of 1 to hit against a single target aura. Orders will still stack with auras, but they're not overpowered here.

Demo charges are very important for the army, since we lack on the at department if we don´t spam planes, and missile launchers are not great. main problem with them is the 3" drop and yeah i have always been skeptical about it, even more since you can drop in melta range.

As of now we are talking about it, the thing is that every army has things that are better than other, hello full payload manticore, and we have a lot of lackluster options.


That's not true you have Drop Sentinels that can aerial drop within melta range. There's a warlord trait that a Drop Sentinel Commander can give a squad of Drop Sentinels WS and BS3+.

Off the top of my head that was something like 260 points. Which is pretty good.

There's also Tauros with twin lascannons.

here are some ideas: make it so it is a d6+3 drop, changing it for 5" or making it so each stormie squad must use a different version of the ability


I would 100% change it to minimum 5 inch. Then either make it a stratagem, or make any of those upgrades cost points. Either 5 or 10, they shouldn't be free.

I have also heard complains about the veteran and "veteran like" units, like the sappers, it was our idea that, since we lack a lot of options (like tanks, bullgryns, psyquers that are not inquisitors, etc) we would have more tactical options "the right tool for the job" if you may, for example stormies are great, but they can´t carry as much special weapons as other options.


You can take Bullgryns, regular Ogryns, and Ratlings. In the detachment rules section it says you can take Militarum Auxilia units without breaking your detachment ability.

You can also still take tanks, priests, and psykers. You just need a second detachment. In a 2000 point game you could have 1000 points of deep striking drop troops all in aerial drop. Then have a second detachment of 1000 points of regular guard.

There's nothing stopping you from doing that.

   
Made in es
Fresh-Faced New User




They can take 4 special weapons though. At least on the latest version posted here. The rule appears to be simply copy-pasted from the Scion one. It's 2 special weapons per 5 models, if you take 10 models that's 4 special weapons.

They indeed can, i believe that was a missread on my part, not sure if they are working as intended in that case



There's a shoot twice stratagem that will probably need to be FAQ'd. I think it was Hotdrop. Basically lets you shoot as soon as you finish deploying from aerial drop, which might mean you can shoot before the enemy uses something like their own Auspex Scan stratagem (or equivalent).

It also means Drop Troops might be better able to handle characters with the maximum 3 wounds per phase. As you could do some reliable wounds in the movement phase.


That one stratagem is something i have playtested a lot it is quite expensive but powerful (3cp), will watch it very close after the changes when the AM codex drop


That's not true you have Drop Sentinels that can aerial drop within melta range. There's a warlord trait that a Drop Sentinel Commander can give a squad of Drop Sentinels WS and BS3+.

Off the top of my head that was something like 260 points. Which is pretty good.

There's also Tauros with twin lascannons.


Well... yes... you are right i don´t really use those units so i just filtered them out, still from my experience the demo charge on stormies tends to be very good but not broken.



You can take Bullgryns, regular Ogryns, and Ratlings. In the detachment rules section it says you can take Militarum Auxilia units without breaking your detachment ability.

You can also still take tanks, priests, and psykers. You just need a second detachment. In a 2000 point game you could have 1000 points of deep striking drop troops all in aerial drop. Then have a second detachment of 1000 points of regular guard.
There's nothing stopping you from doing that


well the thing is... i think none of us tried to do such a thing, only like three of us are playtesting the codex with any kind of regularity, and that being generous. For the militarum auxilia, well yeah, but i don´t think they broke the codex at this moment, and unless their datasheets change a lot i dobout they will. it is just that, again i filtered them out since i don´t play them in my drop troops

While, in theory we can take tanks and so on with a second detachment we usually don´t take that into account when making the codex, since we expect that when the AM codex drop, it will have mechanics, similar to other codex that punish you if you mix armies
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Small update before some final proofreading.
Changed the first page of the rule section to include some potential problematic units and rules from feedbacks so tester and reader can try to test them first.

We won't make very big change for now until we get more playtests and more feedbacks from lots of places and peoples.

Patchnote 1.7:
https://mega.nz/file/u9d3FAbb#AQoeOqQPzDVgj1xt-68-BS_v06UOtiH4r9eYFESKK_M

Full codex 1.7:
https://mega.nz/file/7wFxGaAL#qtNzSCwFlFlLo4g_fxpEZB974B3iolbObSXpTZ10dEA
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Good evening everyone.
We got out 2.0 release last Saturday and got a giant influx of peoples feedback and playtesting that helped us find new problems and new solutions to them.

The past few days were mostly reading feedbacks and making fixes so I will just post here the new 2.1 instead of the 2.0 because its out today with lots of fixes.

Patch note 2.1
https://mega.nz/file/asdTASYQ#qdwQ2A8nEJEEIFFBILUcSNRL5yaDze8r5HlHipi3YlU

Codex 2.1
https://mega.nz/file/u9UxDASQ#CznQRiUWR-L-20qQFEyUYvBvy2r2rIgc0gud50KpooM

As always, feel free to give feedbacks and play test too so we can see if there are any other problems.
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Codex Alpha 2.2 is out. A few changes (see patchnote). Lets continue to make it better and feel free to give feedbacks and playtest.

Patch note 2.2 (click the full link)
https://mega.nz/file/P19igZpa#FombgZVGGQRpgWW2Bp_v4v_8t0FX6ALtNTYujhUZfWo

Codex alpha 2.2 (click the full link)
https://mega.nz/file/X9VQCBoB#N8BysCM8hKC8oZmFODusOpDqGrvOwLOatb2VczoICuk
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




New version available ! Lots of changes as always. Major overall for the D-99 and some points changes for regular units.

Patch note 2.3
https://mega.nz/file/XlVhFaTI#kT5tSnEdpo5vS4HMMO18EETKq4oJCMfLcFWpRwoqP2A

Full codex 2.3
https://mega.nz/file/D9NngCDL#iM9-VsGV1CFClhXzj7_YiUw783QLsKUI87esgLPKhb0

Rule only 2.3 for easy print
https://mega.nz/file/D0VTxYhC#dGqICbUIXzlzViyHw6trfpPrhFjn-FjOe5iGL43uzrM
   
 
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