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 Horla wrote:
One of the biggest WTFs of coming back to 40K was seeing Guilliman back. I still haven’t gotten used to the idea, it seems utterly wrong based on the lore as I knew it. The Chaos ones should absolutely be around (and were all available for Epic so were around in some scale), maybe the Lion doing a breakout of his long nap but Guilliman? Guilliman!??

Oh and if Sanguinius comes back then we truly know GW will be only short of introducing actual Marvel characters next.

There's not enough exalting I could possibly ever give this post.

I dislike loyalist primarchs in 40k.

Daemon Primarchs, sure.

Loyalist, no.

But they're inevitable with how much Guilliman will have sold so whatever.

I didn't really want primarchs in the first place, their return fundamentally changes 40k. It is too late for that however and the cat is out of the bag, so we might as well get more. I am interested to see what they would do with Perturabo and Jaghatai.

 Argive wrote:
No.

Because getting "moar primarchs" will also mean yet even MOAR MARINES

If loyalist primarch: Moar marines because the primarch obviously needs to bring at least 4-5 new SM units because reasons.

If demon primarch: It will mean moar marines because obviously marines will ned NEW** Units to counter the NEW threats of NEW chaos UNIT(s).

So no. Id much rather see other stuff literally just about anything else.

HH has primarchs. So you can already buy and play those if so inclined.

Oh? I wasn't aware that they had 40k data sheets.
Look, if I wanted to play a completely different game, I'd already be playing it. What I WANT is for Russ to finally get his ass out of the Eye of Terror/Warp/whatever & lead my force in stats as well as in miniature form. Preferably while I'm still alive (I figure I've got about 25-30 years left)....
Russ finally returning to real-space is the only progression of story I want in this game.

This is Leman Russ. I've been using this mini (and the wolves he came with) for nearly 30 years now. I'd like to eventually use it as the character GW cast & sold as, in the game they sold it for.

^Those were the good ol days before primarchs and other characters suffered from gigantism.

NVm

Primarchs ruin the feeling of space marines all standing resolute against the darkness, each one a hero of the imperium.
They lame, and would have been way cooler if they had been mostly the same power level as other marines with there myths and legends being mostly overblown and there chaos counterparts trading for power from the horrors of the universe.
It hits more at how these individuals had so much influence on the universe when they don’t get ramped up and written so often like children that need that power to extend there influence passed there fists.

Voted no.

The Primarchs we have now disappoint. Mortarion and Magnus are expensive bullet magnets. They got nerfed in each 8th edition FAQ. Guilliman rarely gets the job done. I don't want a Russ / Lion / Khan / version of the same.

GW does the best they can but the mechanics make it hard to properly represent a Primarch on the tabletop. I just don't like the feeling they are 'ablative HQs' there to soak up the weight of your opponent's shooting for a turn or two while the rest of your army grabs objectives unopposed.

Apple fox wrote:
Primarchs ruin the feeling of space marines all standing resolute against the darkness, each one a hero of the imperium.

..Have I been playing a different game these last 25-30 odd years? The Space Marines are the closest thing I can imagine to literal space Nazi's, propping up the most repugnant regime conceivable. A good portion of that 'darkness' they're standing against appears amoral at worst in comparison. o.O

At the end of the day, the Primarchs have been around and part of the game in some form since it's inception. They're just a little more physically present in the last few editions. Can't see there being any going back now without major (and likely unpopular) shake ups to the fluff.

 StrayIight wrote:

Apple fox wrote:
Primarchs ruin the feeling of space marines all standing resolute against the darkness, each one a hero of the imperium.

..Have I been playing a different game these last 25-30 odd years? The Space Marines are the closest thing I can imagine to literal space Nazi's, propping up the most repugnant regime conceivable. A good portion of that 'darkness' they're standing against appears amoral at worst in comparison. o.O

At the end of the day, the Primarchs have been around and part of the game in some form since it's inception. They're just a little more physically present in the last few editions. Can't see there being any going back now without major (and likely unpopular) shake ups to the fluff.

hero of the imperium doesn’t mean they or the imperium are a good thing :0 just the way they pushed as the heroes and the avenging angels that come to save the day.

And they could be done well, without the meh power escalation and they just the best. They have though there pushed power fantasy made so much of the game that should be quite dangerous and a horror to meet on the battlefield so underwhelming.
Tone em down and make em cool for being cool rather than super badass plot armor peaces. Probably to late to save it.

Characters don’t need to be center peace models, and are often made less cool because of it.

ccs wrote:

 Argive wrote:
No.

Because getting "moar primarchs" will also mean yet even MOAR MARINES

If loyalist primarch: Moar marines because the primarch obviously needs to bring at least 4-5 new SM units because reasons.

If demon primarch: It will mean moar marines because obviously marines will ned NEW** Units to counter the NEW threats of NEW chaos UNIT(s).

So no. Id much rather see other stuff literally just about anything else.

HH has primarchs. So you can already buy and play those if so inclined.

Oh? I wasn't aware that they had 40k data sheets.
Look, if I wanted to play a completely different game, I'd already be playing it. What I WANT is for Russ to finally get his ass out of the Eye of Terror/Warp/whatever & lead my force in stats as well as in miniature form. Preferably while I'm still alive (I figure I've got about 25-30 years left)....
Russ finally returning to real-space is the only progression of story I want in this game.

This is Leman Russ. I've been using this mini (and the wolves he came with) for nearly 30 years now. I'd like to eventually use it as the character GW cast & sold as, in the game they sold it for.

At least you had a model for rus. And have current one from FW.

Meanwhile i have maguan ra from the same year probably. And never even had a phoenix lord for my warp spiders

 Argive wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Argive wrote:
No.

Because getting "moar primarchs" will also mean yet even MOAR MARINES

If loyalist primarch: Moar marines because the primarch obviously needs to bring at least 4-5 new SM units because reasons.

If demon primarch: It will mean moar marines because obviously marines will ned NEW** Units to counter the NEW threats of NEW chaos UNIT(s).

So no. Id much rather see other stuff literally just about anything else.

HH has primarchs. So you can already buy and play those if so inclined.

Oh? I wasn't aware that they had 40k data sheets.
Look, if I wanted to play a completely different game, I'd already be playing it. What I WANT is for Russ to finally get his ass out of the Eye of Terror/Warp/whatever & lead my force in stats as well as in miniature form. Preferably while I'm still alive (I figure I've got about 25-30 years left)....
Russ finally returning to real-space is the only progression of story I want in this game.

This is Leman Russ. I've been using this mini (and the wolves he came with) for nearly 30 years now. I'd like to eventually use it as the character GW cast & sold as, in the game they sold it for.

At least you had a model for rus. And have current one from FW.

Meanwhile i have maguan ra from the same year probably. And never even had a phoenix lord for my warp spiders

Well, I could order the FW one. He'll never be the model that leads my army though.

No, Russ predates Maguan Ra, squeaking in during the closing days of RT. Ra came along in 2nd.

Well, I have the Angron model from FW - a very nice model.
Its just assembled but not primed or painted.
Not sure if I ever paint or sell it.

 StrayIight wrote:

Apple fox wrote:
Primarchs ruin the feeling of space marines all standing resolute against the darkness, each one a hero of the imperium.

..Have I been playing a different game these last 25-30 odd years? The Space Marines are the closest thing I can imagine to literal space Nazi's, propping up the most repugnant regime conceivable. A good portion of that 'darkness' they're standing against appears amoral at worst in comparison. o.O

They are the heroes the Imperium deserves. . .

 StrayIight wrote:

Apple fox wrote:
Primarchs ruin the feeling of space marines all standing resolute against the darkness, each one a hero of the imperium.

..Have I been playing a different game these last 25-30 odd years? The Space Marines are the closest thing I can imagine to literal space Nazi's, propping up the most repugnant regime conceivable. A good portion of that 'darkness' they're standing against appears amoral at worst in comparison. o.O

At the end of the day, the Primarchs have been around and part of the game in some form since it's inception. They're just a little more physically present in the last few editions. Can't see there being any going back now without major (and likely unpopular) shake ups to the fluff.

All imperial factions are painted as heroes on a superficial level by GW. Yeah you can read the lore and realise what sick sadistic dogmatic place the imperium is and that space marines are narcissist cult warriors who only ally with the imperiums because they have psychopathic motives towards all non human life but will gladly destroy human populations for their own benefit...... or you can watch the little movies GW makes where the space marines and sisters of battle heroically fight the revolution space robots.

There’s only so much you can capture in a short vignette but newbies to the game are definitely given the impression of goodies vs badies.

Personally I like the idea of the story of the primarchs coming back to be psychopathic leaders of warrior cults and have their hypocrisy rubbed in their face by the likes of fulgrim, but that was also the HH. And since guilliman came back he’s been a real Boy Scout as far as I am aware.

I mean if the lion comes back and DA don’t basically become a break away state doing nothing but chasing down Luther and the fallen and neglecting any of their duties to the imperium then what’s the point in bringing him back

SamusDrake wrote:
Voted nay for the obvious reason that if I mention will be frowned up for mentioning, so I won't mention it.

Thanks for the vague-posting - and your obvious reason doesn't seem to be that obvious.

Can we see the Khan released for 30k before we see any more Primarchs for 40k, at a minimum?

mrFickle 798172 11119670 wrote:
All imperial factions are painted as heroes on a superficial level by GW. Yeah you can read the lore and realise what sick sadistic dogmatic place the imperium is and that space marines are narcissist cult warriors who only ally with the imperiums because they have psychopathic motives towards all non human life but will gladly destroy human populations for their own benefit...... or you can watch the little movies GW makes where the space marines and sisters of battle heroically fight the revolution space robots.

There’s only so much you can capture in a short vignette but newbies to the game are definitely given the impression of goodies vs badies.

they are team humans. that automaticaly makes them the good guys, when you fight not humans. It is like real world, given choice between a human life and anything else life you pick human, doing otherwise would mighty strange. Also psycho indoctrination or mind scrubing are not the same thing as having psychotic motives. In the same way autistic behaviour doesn't mean you are autistic. Plus are we kind of a forgetting what humanity is dealing in w40k? orks kill stuff, because they are created as a bio weapon. Tyranids are a similar. Eldar are willing to sacrifice the sectors of humans just to retrive a single soul stone. Tau sterilize humans and put them in re education camps, or this is what the good tau do. The red bad tau just kill humans, including those on the tau side. Necron are the anti life, and chaos why it has humans among its ranks want to destroy and warp the natural way of living humans have.

Thinking that humans are in any shape or form the bad ones in the w40k world, is like saying a bear has full rights to kill your grandfathers horses or a boars have full right to destroy fields your family have.

mrFickle wrote:
But by introducing fulgrim or a grin you are creating 2 new armies where as a loyalist primarch is just another big buff to SM that have had a huge upgrade project.

But I do take your point and I would also ask should you count abbadon at primarch level. Not fluff wise but stat wise.

Also one of the new SOB models looks like it will have guilliman level stats

No, Abaddon should be between a Chapter Master and a Primarch but closer to a Chapter Master.

I want at least the Lion and Fulgrim back.

 Dysartes wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
Voted nay for the obvious reason that if I mention will be frowned up for mentioning, so I won't mention it.

Thanks for the vague-posting - and your obvious reason doesn't seem to be that obvious.

Can we see the Khan released for 30k before we see any more Primarchs for 40k, at a minimum?

Well, obviously I'm going to get lynched for complaining about too many marine models when craftworlds are in dire...

...ah, dammit.

Do eldar even have 30k rules and models?

I like giant demonic heretic primarchs but not loyalist ones.

Making "normal" non demon primarch giants is just so stupid. They look awful.

But Vulkan was a litteral gigant, and only got bigger after the whole Beast thing.

I entirely agree that the size choices for Guilliman and other Primarchs put me off so much that I didn't (and will not) buy them.

We already have a faction where "bigger=better". They're the Orks, and if I'd like that, I would collect them, not the Space Marine.

Under this point of view (and excluding exception like Magnus and Vulcan) Horus Heresy IS UNBELIEVABLY STUPID.

SamusDrake wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
Voted nay for the obvious reason that if I mention will be frowned up for mentioning, so I won't mention it.

Thanks for the vague-posting - and your obvious reason doesn't seem to be that obvious.

Can we see the Khan released for 30k before we see any more Primarchs for 40k, at a minimum?

Well, obviously I'm going to get lynched for complaining about too many marine models when craftworlds are in dire...

...ah, dammit.

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

A lot of Eldar models are in pretty big need of updates-it's frustrating that so much attention is lavished upon Marines when other lines have much older models.

 Cybtroll wrote:
I entirely agree that the size choices for Guilliman and other Primarchs put me off so much that I didn't (and will not) buy them.

We already have a faction where "bigger=better". They're the Orks, and if I'd like that, I would collect them, not the Space Marine.

Under this point of view (and excluding exception like Magnus and Vulcan) Horus Heresy IS UNBELIEVABLY STUPID.

Yeah, it’s just embarrassing.

Yeah, it would have been fine to make most of them a head taller or whatever like they are "supposed" to be, but making them 1.5x-2x as tall is just dumb.

 JNAProductions wrote:


A lot of Eldar models are in pretty big need of updates-it's frustrating that so much attention is lavished upon Marines when other lines have much older models.

Silliness aside, yeah I agree.

Only kit that Marines could do with is a multi-option Chapter Master kit, for those who prefer to create their own chapters. On the Chaos Marine side you have the Chaos Terminator Lord kit, which puts most of the Marine HQ kits to shame.

Karol wrote:
Do eldar even have 30k rules and models?

Every eldar model (-ynarri) are 30k models