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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 MJRyder wrote:
Agree with the OP 100%

Anyone find that reading some of these threads on Dakka makes them enjoy the hobby less? Or at least, does reading Dakka make you less happy?

It's weird... I really don't like posting on here because of all the trolls, yet I find myself strangely attracted to reading the threads. I wonder, are we all just a bit masochistic?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an aside, I'm not going to call out the moaners and the haters, but I would just like to say that I really do appreciate the posts of Overread, Mad Dok and several others


The only time it makes me enjoy the hobby less is when I see a general consensus about how people feel GW is getting something wrong or taking advantage and I see the same comments on social media, but I know not only will GW not change but they seems to double down on things that a lot of long term players don’t enjoy. The growing volume of expensive booksto get all the rules for you army, for example. Or the lack of attention for certain factions.
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

 MJRyder wrote:
Agree with the OP 100%

Anyone find that reading some of these threads on Dakka makes them enjoy the hobby less? Or at least, does reading Dakka make you less happy?

It's weird... I really don't like posting on here because of all the trolls, yet I find myself strangely attracted to reading the threads. I wonder, are we all just a bit masochistic?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an aside, I'm not going to call out the moaners and the haters, but I would just like to say that I really do appreciate the posts of Overread, Mad Dok and several others

I will freely admit that the community negativity has dragged me down in the past leading to my taking a break from the online community, and sometimes even the game. I'm not saying that all the negativity is unwarrented (like when GW really steps in it) but so much of it is just this perpetual salt engine that can really poison the well, especially when any comment that disagrees with the negative tone being beat down with accusations of white knighting and the like.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Living in a small town I spend my whole life being dropped small hints about what I could have. The Altaya's collection of warhammer models was my first exposure to warhammer and I fell in love.

My mother bought me the battle for skull pass set at 12 for christmas. I builded it, played agaisnt myself without even knowing the rules but using the tutorial scenarios of the game, and then stopped playing because I knew no one that was interested in that stuff.

Now, being an adult and living in a larger city, a couple years ago I made the jump and started connecting with people, and soon I realized that much more people than I tought played this kind of games. I even discovered that Corvus Belli, the creators of Infinity, are literally from the city I'm living in and have their HQ just in the other side of the river

So basically warhammer (More importantly wargaming, but warhammer and MESBG are the three I play most), is my connection with a passion I have had since I was a child but never had the cappability to enjoy it.

I just believe that people takes it too seriously to the point of investing too emotion into it, both positive and negative. But thats not just about warhammer, you'll see it about everything. People clings at all kind of stuff and lets it affect their emotions way too much.

I love wargaming. I love the people it connected me too. And I love warhammer universes. But nothing of that stuff I let affect me in a negative way. The moment I stop enjoying something, I stop doing it. For example, we stopped playing AoS and jumped to MESBG and Frostgrave. And if AoS becomes fun again we'll play it again.

But people having a toxic relationship with warhammer is completely normal. I had, years ago, the same relationship with Blizzard and Warcraft. And I know friends that are still trapped in that vicious cicle. I jumped off that train long ago and know I enjoy warcraft at my own way and pace.

As others have said, an fantasy universe is much more than the corporation that has taken over that creation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/18 14:52:32


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 ClockworkZion wrote:
 MJRyder wrote:
Agree with the OP 100%

Anyone find that reading some of these threads on Dakka makes them enjoy the hobby less? Or at least, does reading Dakka make you less happy?

It's weird... I really don't like posting on here because of all the trolls, yet I find myself strangely attracted to reading the threads. I wonder, are we all just a bit masochistic?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an aside, I'm not going to call out the moaners and the haters, but I would just like to say that I really do appreciate the posts of Overread, Mad Dok and several others

I will freely admit that the community negativity has dragged me down in the past leading to my taking a break from the online community, and sometimes even the game. I'm not saying that all the negativity is unwarrented (like when GW really steps in it) but so much of it is just this perpetual salt engine that can really poison the well, especially when any comment that disagrees with the negative tone being beat down with accusations of white knighting and the like.

You almost have a point, but $5 says we would have people here defending the "update" for the Fallen that just happened.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

I’m here mostly for the News & Rumors, it’s where I find out about a number of Kickstarters, and what the various wargaming companies are doing nowadays. Originally, I found Dakka because GW wouldn’t tell anyone about what was coming out - it’d just show up in the stores. While Warhammer Community now has most of that information, I still haven’t quite weened myself from find out about GW releases here first.

Likewise, when it comes to 40K specifically, While I’ve had access to the game since Rogue Trader, I think the happiest I was with the game was with the 8E indexes. It was short lived - the Codexes moved the game away from the balance I hoped they were moving towards. Now, I just come here to find out what the state of the game has become, and laugh at how silly the whole thing has become. Maybe one day it will swing back to something I could enjoy, but I doubt it. Still enjoy the lore for now.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

I still think it is unfair to say "love it or leave it" about something as nuanced and complex as 40k.

It's possible to love some parts and hate others.

It's possible to build a fun and engaging Armageddon Steel Legion mechanized company (spending lots of time and money and energy doing so and making sure it is lore friendly) whilst loudly proclaiming that it is unfair that the Steel Legion has one of the worst (functional) regimental doctrines, that the rules that made mechanized company work were banned from Matched Play by GW (no more Vigilus, RIP), and that the rules surrounding transports disincentivises their use (unless they're open-topped).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/18 15:39:42


 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 MJRyder wrote:
Agree with the OP 100%

Anyone find that reading some of these threads on Dakka makes them enjoy the hobby less? Or at least, does reading Dakka make you less happy?

It's weird... I really don't like posting on here because of all the trolls, yet I find myself strangely attracted to reading the threads. I wonder, are we all just a bit masochistic?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an aside, I'm not going to call out the moaners and the haters, but I would just like to say that I really do appreciate the posts of Overread, Mad Dok and several others

I will freely admit that the community negativity has dragged me down in the past leading to my taking a break from the online community, and sometimes even the game. I'm not saying that all the negativity is unwarrented (like when GW really steps in it) but so much of it is just this perpetual salt engine that can really poison the well, especially when any comment that disagrees with the negative tone being beat down with accusations of white knighting and the like.

You almost have a point, but $5 says we would have people here defending the "update" for the Fallen that just happened.

Just because some people white knight doesn't mean everyone who says something positive about GW are automatically white knights and deserve to be attacked over it.
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




Togusa wrote:
So my question to those who are unhappy with the current state of their respective game and the company as a whole is why do you all stay and collectively subject yourself to something a lot of you clearly hate? I see it time and time again in just about every thread, the literal same arguments people were having two years ago about primaris this, stormcast that, my rules suck, that new army get's more support than my 1 character, 2 troop army that hasn't been good since third edition, I don't like the aesthetics, I don't like the rules! Complain, complain, complain. Clearly this hobby makes you unhappy, so why do you subject yourself to it continuously when a lot of you even go so far as to say that it's never going to change? It's like you know it's bad for your health, but you keep coming back and I just don't understand it?

Just to be fair, I did this myself with 40K up until the Pandemic forced me to suspend my gaming. Once I wasn't able to do it, I had all these realizations that I needed to find another game and I moved to AoS instead of 40K. Things got a lot better for me, because it turns out that game is much better suited for me than 40K was. There are a lot of choices out there for wargames and I'm genuinely curious about this.


I am not going to quit unless one of two things happen. Either GW gives me a rule set I can have fun with for 8-12 months or they make my army legends, which is practicaly the same as illegal to play with.

If I could buy a good army or switch games, maybe I would, but I must say the fear of investing in something that ends up bad again is a very real thing. Thanfluly I don't have the money to start any new table top. school stuff and supplements eat all my money.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 Stormonu wrote:
I’m here mostly for the News & Rumors, it’s where I find out about a number of Kickstarters, and what the various wargaming companies are doing nowadays. Originally, I found Dakka because GW wouldn’t tell anyone about what was coming out - it’d just show up in the stores. While Warhammer Community now has most of that information, I still haven’t quite weened myself from find out about GW releases here first.

Likewise, when it comes to 40K specifically, While I’ve had access to the game since Rogue Trader, I think the happiest I was with the game was with the 8E indexes. It was short lived - the Codexes moved the game away from the balance I hoped they were moving towards. Now, I just come here to find out what the state of the game has become, and laugh at how silly the whole thing has become. Maybe one day it will swing back to something I could enjoy, but I doubt it. Still enjoy the lore for now.

It was a unique time in the history of the game. Everyone'sEveryones rules were updated at once! All armies were reasonably on the same field. It was my favorite time too.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




I don't think that index Inari or Marines or Chaos soups were on the same level as index GK.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols





washington state USA

 Xenomancers wrote:
 Stormonu wrote:
I’m here mostly for the News & Rumors, it’s where I find out about a number of Kickstarters, and what the various wargaming companies are doing nowadays. Originally, I found Dakka because GW wouldn’t tell anyone about what was coming out - it’d just show up in the stores. While Warhammer Community now has most of that information, I still haven’t quite weened myself from find out about GW releases here first.

Likewise, when it comes to 40K specifically, While I’ve had access to the game since Rogue Trader, I think the happiest I was with the game was with the 8E indexes. It was short lived - the Codexes moved the game away from the balance I hoped they were moving towards. Now, I just come here to find out what the state of the game has become, and laugh at how silly the whole thing has become. Maybe one day it will swing back to something I could enjoy, but I doubt it. Still enjoy the lore for now.

It was a unique time in the history of the game. Everyone'sEveryones rules were updated at once! All armies were reasonably on the same field. It was my favorite time too.


We still use index 8th with halved ranges when we play epic scale games, makes building and playing super simple and fun(especially when there were only 3 strats and everybody had the same 3).





GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Is this thread really "GW makes people misery. That's why I quit GW and switched to GW."

   
Made in us
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols





washington state USA

Yeah i pointed that out in my first reply.

Bit of a head scratcher.





GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in fi
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






 aphyon wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Stormonu wrote:
I’m here mostly for the News & Rumors, it’s where I find out about a number of Kickstarters, and what the various wargaming companies are doing nowadays. Originally, I found Dakka because GW wouldn’t tell anyone about what was coming out - it’d just show up in the stores. While Warhammer Community now has most of that information, I still haven’t quite weened myself from find out about GW releases here first.

Likewise, when it comes to 40K specifically, While I’ve had access to the game since Rogue Trader, I think the happiest I was with the game was with the 8E indexes. It was short lived - the Codexes moved the game away from the balance I hoped they were moving towards. Now, I just come here to find out what the state of the game has become, and laugh at how silly the whole thing has become. Maybe one day it will swing back to something I could enjoy, but I doubt it. Still enjoy the lore for now.

It was a unique time in the history of the game. Everyone'sEveryones rules were updated at once! All armies were reasonably on the same field. It was my favorite time too.


We still use index 8th with halved ranges when we play epic scale games, makes building and playing super simple and fun(especially when there were only 3 strats and everybody had the same 3).


Ah so there was a time during 8th Edition when there were only three global stratagems? And every faction had the same strats? Sounds great! We play Kill Team like that (everyone has only the global tactics + specialist tactics, no faction specific tactics) and I much prefer such an approach to the cardgamey madness that a fullblown tactics/strats stack brings.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/18 18:24:32


 
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

 LunarSol wrote:
Is this thread really "GW makes people misery. That's why I quit GW and switched to GW."



Well, in my case I switched to Flames of War & Bolt Action - so from GW to Warlord & Battlefront, but they don’t have forums or their forums are dead.

It never ends well 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





If I played 40k as a game of skill- as a competition to determine who is the better player, I could see the merits of the index era and the no faction strat system.

I've always played 40k as more of an immersive storytelling game, so I find that era to be one of the dullest eras in 40k history. Sameness, while great for balance, makes a really dull story.
   
Made in us
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols





washington state USA


Ah so there was a time during 8th Edition when there were only three global stratagems? And every faction had the same strats?


Yes
1.command re-roll 1cp (re-roll 1 dice result)
2.counter offensive-2cp (interrupt charge assault phase order after the first one is resolved)
3.insane bravery-2cp (auto pass morale checks)




PenitentJake wrote:
If I played 40k as a game of skill- as a competition to determine who is the better player, I could see the merits of the index era and the no faction strat system.

I've always played 40k as more of an immersive storytelling game, so I find that era to be one of the dullest eras in 40k history. Sameness, while great for balance, makes a really dull story.


Ditto that's why we went back to playing older editions where it is the way the armies would behave in the lore with in game rules to represent that. rather it be blood frenzy for khorne berserkers, or born in the saddle for white scars etc...





GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





I've tried to get back into 40K but its stuck as a "tournament or nothing" game, and even then its just not up to the job. If it wasn't for Kill Team and Blackstone Fortress I wouldn't bother.

Age of Sigmar, in comparison, feels like not only a breath of fresh air but also freedom in play styles. The support for models is also far better.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

SamusDrake wrote:
I've tried to get back into 40K but its stuck as a "tournament or nothing" game, and even then its just not up to the job. If it wasn't for Kill Team and Blackstone Fortress I wouldn't bother.

Age of Sigmar, in comparison, feels like not only a breath of fresh air but also freedom in play styles. The support for models is also far better.

AoS is cementing itself as a "dad game" which may explain why the community tone isn't as salt filled since it's less enticing to the grognard crowd (most of which left when AoS launched).
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I think its also cause of places like the Grand Alliance forums which have pushed for a more positive social discourse

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




Don't they just ban anyone who is unhappy about anything or writes anything about the designers? that is not a discourse, that is just a good method to teach people how to self censor.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in gb
Pious Warrior Priest




UK

I'm well aware AoS is pretty bad, but considering playing it anyway, simply because it's firmly in the casual fun tier of gaming and hasn't quite gotten around to having the same level of rules bloat that 40k has picked up over the decades, trying to be competitive and play competitively with that game is tough, KoW is my serious play game since it's extremely well balanced to the point that any faction can win a tournament.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Karol wrote:Don't they just ban anyone who is unhappy about anything or writes anything about the designers?


In short - no.
About all that happens is people are told not to insult/swear/generally be nasty to each other and threads are given nudges to prevent them spiralling down into endless negative angles. Critical talk is perfectly allowed.

The only ones that get banned are those who only ever post in the negative and are clearly aiming to just troll the community or otherwise complain.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




scarletsquig wrote:
I'm well aware AoS is pretty bad,

Based on research + testimonials gotta disagree with that, especially compared to 40k.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





 aphyon wrote:


Ditto that's why we went back to playing older editions where it is the way the armies would behave in the lore with in game rules to represent that. rather it be blood frenzy for khorne berserkers, or born in the saddle for white scars etc...


Huh. That surprises me. I'm skating around the edges of Chaos, though I'm a Slaanesh guy. Because I haven't done a deep dive, I haven't slammed up against any barriers to my craving for fluff-based play. Similarly, I don't really play marines, though I do appreciate Deathwatch and Greyknights as Chambers Militant of the Inquisition.

My primary army is Sisters, with a strong secondary in GSC, which probably has more to do with why I think 40k kinda sucked from 4th ed to 7th inclusive than any other factor; neither of my primary armies was shown much love after 3rd... Until 8th brought them back and expanded them.

But I would have thought that subfaction traits were good for story minded players. Prior to 8th, there was no difference between a Sister from the Order of Our Martyred Lady and one from the Bloody Rose. I see that as a failure of rules to reflect fluff. A termagaunt from Leviathon is now different from a termagaunt from Jormungandr. A lot of people don't like strats either; personally, I feel like they make armies play like they should- at least the armies that I play- I can't really comment for the ones I don't play.

I can't wait for the new CSM and Daemon Codices. I think 9th ed dexes have been pretty decent so far; based on Deathwatch and Drukhari- the only 9th ed dexes I have so far- I see vast improvements from 8th. I also love Crusade, and all of its associated bespoke content. I'm hoping that CSM and Daemons see a similar degree of improvement.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Karol wrote:
Don't they just ban anyone who is unhappy about anything or writes anything about the designers? that is not a discourse, that is just a good method to teach people how to self censor.
If they did that here there would be approximately 9 people left discussing this game. Part of playing Warhammer is hating the game. Everyone know this. lol.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus




AoS is cementing itself as a "dad game" which may explain why the community tone isn't as salt filled since it's less enticing to the grognard crowd (most of which left when AoS launched).


I've never heard that term before. "Dad Game". What's that mean? I've been considering taking the plunge for a while now.


Just because some people white knight doesn't mean everyone who says something positive about GW are automatically white knights and deserve to be attacked over it.


The reverse is also true. It's possible to dislike a thing and not be a "frothing-at-the-mouth" black knight. lol I think we just give too much attention sometimes to the people at the extreme ends and not enough at the middle.

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

Karol wrote:
Don't they just ban anyone who is unhappy about anything or writes anything about the designers? that is not a discourse, that is just a good method to teach people how to self censor.

I haven't seen them ban people for not liking stuff but if they get toxic (which includes personal attacks ) they do step in.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




TGA is weird, it's mostly pretty open but every once in a while Gav will come into a thread and pronounce that TGA is a place for people who enjoy the hobby, so further negative feedback will only be tolerated if it is "constructive," which is never defined but in practice means that "no negative comments are tolerated unless they are couched in terms of being positive about something else."

Dakka is also weird, in a different way. Witness all the attacks in this thread on "negative posters" and "trolls," when in fact the most obvious kind of trolls on Dakka are...well...the people who make attacks on negative posters.

Trolls aren't people who don't like the game, trolls are people who don't discuss actual topics and just try to get a rise out of others or attack them. Which on Dakka usually means people ranting about negativity. It's pretty rare you find a negative poster who goes after individuals, even if they're having a meltdown it's usually about the game, not about other posters.

   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

Let's not white knight the black knights. Dakka may not crack down on threads that often but let's be honest: there is a tendency to browbeat anyone who takes a positive stance regarding GW.

I won't call them trolls for the most part, but we do have a contingent of peopoe who will ascribe malice for everything GW does and spin any arguement of why their claims are ridiculious into simping for GW.

   
 
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