BFG around 2023?

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**aphyon**

FrozenDwarf wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The challenge of course is 3rd party producers and worse yet Shapeways and Thingverse which already have everything BFG and then some.

Yup, the game is about as alive and accessible as it was then GW made the models, and it is all thanks to the 3D printers and a commmunity that cares. A "new" BFG is honestly not needed. (and like i said before, the odds that gw migh eff up the rules for a new edition is deffo present)

All WE the gamers need to do is spread the word!

This ^

So true, never stopped playing just because GW stopped supporting it. nothing has changed and nothing is needed. rules are all available, models are all available, the players just need to support and build the communities where they live.

**catbarf**

aphyon wrote:
FrozenDwarf wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The challenge of course is 3rd party producers and worse yet Shapeways and Thingverse which already have everything BFG and then some.

Yup, the game is about as alive and accessible as it was then GW made the models, and it is all thanks to the 3D printers and a commmunity that cares. A "new" BFG is honestly not needed. (and like i said before, the odds that gw migh eff up the rules for a new edition is deffo present)

All WE the gamers need to do is spread the word!

This ^

So true, never stopped playing just because GW stopped supporting it. nothing has changed and nothing is needed. rules are all available, models are all available, the players just need to support and build the communities where they live.

What's the current go-to for rules? I've seen a couple community projects, but are there any that have more 'officialdom' than others?

**aphyon**

The 2010 updates were the final rules dump, most of us who regularly play have them on PDF and they are available online to download (like everything else for the game rules).

Those updates really fleshed out the separate factions with special rules and units. themed fleets to the chaos gods or for specific eldar craftworlds, space marine chapters, mechanicus fleets, etc..

**horizon**

Here is the rules hub:
https://www.specialist-arms.com/forum/index.php?topic=5203.0

It has all official but also a lot of fan things. Nicely put in folders.

It is the same link as in my sig.

**catbarf**

Cheers, thanks guys. I stopped playing BFG in the late-00s so am a bit out of the loop, but that definitely gives a solid place to start again.

**habedekrai37**

well, I think BFG was a great game and it's still funny today. But I still want a development (and Dropfleet Commander is a disappointment for me)

In the last few years there have been some new games with exciting mechanics, some of which would certainly be good for BFG too.

Some elements from Star Wars Armada and Adeptus Titanicus or even from Aeronautica Imperialis would do BFG well.

For example
- alternating turn order
- Sheets or terminals instead of tables in books
- Micromanagement
- larger models
...

I can't wait for a remake anyway :-)

**horizon**

The last two points I wouldn't like in bfg. If I want micromanaging I will use the rogue trader RPG rules/game.

Larger models wouldn't be funny for the 20.000 + points of models (non-printed!) I have.

Alternating turn order would be fine. Yet in twenty years no homebrew attempt took the community by storm. .(blame ordnance).

What are terminals?

And what tables are needed? There is quick play sheet.

**xerxeskingofking**

horizon wrote:

What are terminals?

I Think he means something like the titan "character sheets" in Adeptus Titianicus, or the SSDs of Starfleet Battles, so you can track everything relevant to a given ship on one page that you can refer to, and not across 4 tables in the the book and a hand-scribbled notepad to track damage etc.

**horizon**

You only need one roster to track.

So I might be confused.

**xerxeskingofking**

horizon wrote:
You only need one roster to track.

So I might be confused.

well, this "terminal" would have everything relevant to that specific ship on it, so in addition to the stats in the existing datasheet, it;d have the relevant line(s) of the weapons battery firepower table on it, a hull points track, the crit table, Loaded/unloaded indicators for ordance, etc.

you'd have one of these for every cruiser in your fleet, basically.

**Backfire**

chaos0xomega wrote:

This is likely also the result of "genre expectation", or a generalized misunderstanding of historical naval doctrine, or perhaps even confusion regarding modern naval doctrine, or similar. There seems to be a generalized expectation that battleships are/were a singular and monolithic centerpiece within a fleet or naval squadron, surrounded by a number of cruisers who were the actual workhorses of the combat formation, which were in turn supported by a larger number smaller combatants such as destroyers or frigates (seemingly dependent upon which side of the atlantic you're on). Just about every piece of fictional media I've encountered treats naval formations in this manner, especially scifi wargames (I've encountered it in historical wargames as well, though there are a rare few that seem to know better). Battlefleet Gothic was designed this way, as was its spiritual successor in Dropfleet Commander. Uncharted Seas, Firestorm Armada, and Dystopian Wars did likewise, as well as A Call to Arms (at least to some extent) and Victory at Sea (which is ostensibly historical and thus should know better).

The truth is that doctrinally speaking (though not necessarily practically speaking in many cases), during the dreadnought battleship era the core of a combat formation was a battleship *squadron* and Destroyers/Frigates (again, depending on which side of the atlantic you're on) were the combat workhorses, while cruisers were actually scouts, raiders, pickets, and outriders that more often than not operated individually on the edges of a naval engagement rather than engaging directly in combat. Few games portray these vessels in this manner, for whatever reason, and I'd be hard-pressed to explain why. Part of me thinks it might be an innate tendency amongst humans to think in terms of hierarchies, and because cruisers were more common than battleships but less common than destroyers (or frigates) it just made sense to plug them into the workhorse role, especially in light of how they have often been romanticized in various forms of media.

I agree, though I suspect big part of this is that surface battles of WW2 were indeed often fought with this sort of fleets, with very few battle line engagements. It was very much an abnormal situation brought forward by naval treaty restrictions and rise of naval airpower, which meant that the battle lines of old just did not exist anymore. Battle fleets were very heterogenous and it often made no sense to bring along your 20-knot something old dreadnoughts, as they would only slow you down and be easy targets for aircraft. Even fleet level battles often just had 1 to 2 battleship per side.

Aircraft carriers of course were used in 'battle line' fashion, if such expression is applicable. But most people seem to think carriers are not 'real warships' and long for the romance of big guns.

**horizon**

xerxeskingofking wrote:
horizon wrote:
You only need one roster to track.

So I might be confused.

well, this "terminal" would have everything relevant to that specific ship on it, so in addition to the stats in the existing datasheet, it;d have the relevant line(s) of the weapons battery firepower table on it, a hull points track, the crit table, Loaded/unloaded indicators for ordance, etc.

you'd have one of these for every cruiser in your fleet, basically.

The hull points track is in the current roster. Loaded/Unloaded, I can see why. Two tokens. Won't be a hassle. The critical hit table?

If you look at the quick sheet:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/191z9kItP5ycQ8K4UQi4EuntYC27dNW2U/view?usp=sharing
It has the critical hit table for most of the fleet.

But having an own pdf for each fleet would be a neat feature. But if you made a 'terminal' for each ship with all that info it may get a bit overkill I think.

Here is the roster:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W1iwWtwpga90uA-ckY8E8QSj36lLz07t/view?usp=sharing

But okay, there are quite some groups who made their own datacards for the ships. Just to make sure you have multiple of the same cruiser available.

**habedekrai37**

One sheet or terminal or something similar per ship gives you an overview of the values, individual armament, equipment, given commands, (critical) damage, ... Otherwise it is a bit confusing

If there is micromanagement (e.g. energy management), that can also be represented well there.

I think that's better than looking in tables, books or, for example, placing command dies on the models.

**horizon**

I think the command dice on the battlefield with the models give a real quick overview on what is happening.

**habedekrai37**

well, of course it's a matter of taste, but I prefer it when the gaming table only has terrain and models ;-)

**FrozenDwarf**

catbarf wrote:
aphyon wrote:
FrozenDwarf wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The challenge of course is 3rd party producers and worse yet Shapeways and Thingverse which already have everything BFG and then some.

Yup, the game is about as alive and accessible as it was then GW made the models, and it is all thanks to the 3D printers and a commmunity that cares. A "new" BFG is honestly not needed. (and like i said before, the odds that gw migh eff up the rules for a new edition is deffo present)

All WE the gamers need to do is spread the word!

This ^

So true, never stopped playing just because GW stopped supporting it. nothing has changed and nothing is needed. rules are all available, models are all available, the players just need to support and build the communities where they live.

What's the current go-to for rules? I've seen a couple community projects, but are there any that have more 'officialdom' than others?

Sees to be two versions, Remastered or XR.
I have not read them yet, so idk what the differenes are, but you find them both on the link horizon provided.

**horizon**

To add to above:

The BFG Remastered Rulebook:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TlwdXbZow0OafZNL2yzkZR2r4mPi3Pko/view?usp=sharing

Is a merging of the official Battlefleet Gothic Rulebook, the official Armada supplement and FAQ/Compendium 2010.
A fleet book with all ships is being made at the moment.

XR is a homebrew set which finds it origines in BFG revised which was fanmade during the FAQ2010 development. But not official in anyway.

In the core rules XR does not change much to the official rules. Ordnance springs to mind in the way squadrons are placed on the table.
In the fleets you'll find many differences though. Chaos sees a lot of light cruisers (which again is hated by purists haha) and several ships see spec and/or point changes (eg Retribution, Devastation). Tyranid and Eldar are really different.

Just do what your group plays but for starters I always recommend the official set of rules. And later add or change what you and your group suits best.

**Mixzremixzd**

So how does a newbie start collecting BFG Necron models if they don't have access to a 3d printer or a close associate with a 3d printer? Shapeways seems like a decent option but the shipping costs are gonna kill me.

**FrozenDwarf**

Mixzremixzd wrote:
So how does a newbie start collecting BFG Necron models if they don't have access to a 3d printer or a close associate with a 3d printer? Shapeways seems like a decent option but the shipping costs are gonna kill me.

I belive there currently is only one source https://www.scourgescenics.co.uk/shop/product-category/space-combat/space-skeleton

The game is basicly evolving around thingiverse and one human in the local gaming community having access to a 3D printer, as GW can be a bit nasty when it comes to studios that sells proxy models of their products, so it is a bit of a risk for them to sell sutch products.

I bought tau proxys from scourge so i can confirm their quality, price is reasonable for the quality you get. Jut be aware that you might have to cure the models, all my ships was sticky but 10 min in direct sunlight fixed it.(or a UV lamp)
mind you he dont sell the bases, so you have to find someone else who makes and sells them, or buy them from GW direct.

**Mixzremixzd**

FrozenDwarf wrote:
Mixzremixzd wrote:
So how does a newbie start collecting BFG Necron models if they don't have access to a 3d printer or a close associate with a 3d printer? Shapeways seems like a decent option but the shipping costs are gonna kill me.

I belive there currently is only one source https://www.scourgescenics.co.uk/shop/product-category/space-combat/space-skeleton

The game is basicly evolving around thingiverse and one human in the local gaming community having access to a 3D printer, as GW can be a bit nasty when it comes to studios that sells proxy models of their products, so it is a bit of a risk for them to sell sutch products.

I bought tau proxys from scourge so i can confirm their quality, price is reasonable for the quality you get. Jut be aware that you might have to cure the models, all my ships was sticky but 10 min in direct sunlight fixed it.(or a UV lamp)
mind you he dont sell the bases, so you have to find someone else who makes and sells them, or buy them from GW direct.

Wow those look pretty great and thanks for the tip on curing!

Just another question, what kind of flying bases are used mostly? I'm seeing 32mm mostly from scrolling through google images but also bigger 60? for the battleships. Is that about right or is there an official chart for the base sizes?

**horizon**

Heya,

Officially (and in XR as well) anything under 10 hitpoints use a small 32mm flying bases.

10 or higher and more than 2 shields use the large base of 60mm.

**Kid_Kyoto**

Mixzremixzd wrote:
So how does a newbie start collecting BFG Necron models if they don't have access to a 3d printer or a close associate with a 3d printer? Shapeways seems like a decent option but the shipping costs are gonna kill me.

There might be resources near you, many libraries have 3d printers and maker spaces will usually have one for hire.

Failing that there's always proxies and scratch building using Necron bits.

I plan to use some souvenir pyramids to build mine

**horizon**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Mixzremixzd wrote:
So how does a newbie start collecting BFG Necron models if they don't have access to a 3d printer or a close associate with a 3d printer? Shapeways seems like a decent option but the shipping costs are gonna kill me.

There might be resources near you, many libraries have 3d printers and maker spaces will usually have one for hire.

Failing that there's always proxies and scratch building using Necron bits.

I plan to use some souvenir pyramids to build mine

Scourge Scenics as mentioned before:
https://www.scourgescenics.co.uk/shop/product-category/space-combat/space-skeleton