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WH40K turns people into lawyers - last argument if anyone needed to make up their minds about whether it's good for kids

I introduced my 9 year old cousin to fantasy with battle for skull pass. It was just dwarfs fighting goblins and a trol. It was fun. And I'll admit, with my broken pride, that he won me more times than I won agaisnt himself. And I don't even have the excuse of letting him win. That cannon was lethal and the small devil knew how to guess distances like a pro.


Then when he was 12 years old I sit him down with the 8th edition rulebook and started reading the lore to him. It was fun and TBH, in the surface warhammer lore is extremely inmature, teenager level edgy power fantasy so is extremely appropiate for those ages.

Cool space soldiers of a edgy dark spacial empire fighting agaisnt all kind of crazy stuff.

Does it matter than the cherubs are small clones or that servitors are criminals that have been lobotomized? Is no different than watching a zombie doing zombie stuff.

Sterling191 wrote:

Karol wrote:
Those litteraly do not exist. Plus you see that I wrote it. This is a stupid question.

So is asking why a government that explicitly keeps it's population ignorant and uneducated so as to work them to death better, maintains control on said populace via direct military intervention, enforces purity codes in all aspects of life, deifies the state and sees anything outside itself as impure and needing domination might possibly be considered fascist.

But here we are.

But that is not a hellmark of fasism. Saying that giving a 12 year old space marine will make them fasists, makes as much as much sense as a claim, that playing eldar would turn them racists, playing orks would turn them in to ultras and playing tyranids would make them go on keto diet.

Just so you know you just describes countries as different as kingdom of Prussia, North Korea and Sparta. And neither of those 3 could be described as fasist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Momotaro wrote:
As for the game themes, I was reading myths like Leda and the Swan from about the age of 8-10.

Realising that the Greek Gods are a bunch of... not pleasant people... is an important moment in any young person's development. So it is with the Imperium.

Because they aren't people, they are gods. And gods don't have to follow human rules. When Tantalus fed a child to the gods, and Demeter by mistake took a bite, the punishment for it was eternal damnation. On the other hand gods themselfs ate humans, ate each other , gave birth to new being by eating other beings etc. The imperium isn't a 2021 country located north of UK, it is a humanity monlith in a setting created by GW, and in that setting it is perfectly fine for what it is and what it represents. Being against it, is like being against the survival of humanity itself. And as any nation that had to go through tough times, the moral aspects of survival are left for the time after the survival is done, durning it everything is free game to do.

I won't beat the dead horse others are crowded around too much, but you may want to start smaller scale, talking with your cousin about the content before shoving a 20lbs box of plastic at them. Only Lego can successfully do that.

Parents are weird, full stop. Like anyone else, they have biases and strange stances sometimes if they're raised in circumstances different from yourself.

An anecdote from my local game store. While in the store playing Age of Sigmar, I overheard a conversation between a young lad, his mother, and the store owner. The lad wanted to play Magic the Gathering, and he was about 10-12 years old I'd guess. The store owner was explaining to him and his mother what the game was, the very basics of how to play this card game... but he made one fatal mistake. When explaining the final goal, the store owner said something like "remove the persons health points to beat/kill them" or some other "violent" action to win the game. The mother said no, right then and there because the game was obviously far too violent.

Meanwhile, 10ft away back at my table, I was teaching a 14 year old lad how to play warhammer and he was getting in to the action and combat of it all, having fun playing with his angry shirtless dwarf army cutting down living trees, while his dad and mum were near by.

And when I was younger and talking to a friend of mine, his grandfather took issue with me talking about God of War. And not for any violence or gak like that, just the name of it. The "god" part of it.

People are weird.

But you're an adult now, and your parents no longer have say over what you do with your own earned money, especially when it's a gift recipient whose parents don't mind at all.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
People aren't seriously worried about 40k "indoctrinating" a kid into "fascism"?

Are they also worried about rock and roll music and D&D?

no, I think its a lot more likely that this is a pretty standard "nooooo its too violent for my young booooooooooy"

To be fair you do get people who think the Imperium is unironically awesome and who think that we need a God Emperor of our own, but yeah I figure the main concern for a 12 year old would be the uber-violence and maybe S&M on the Slaaneshi-side, but even then they'd have to be hunting down the deeper parts of the lore and video games to even encounter that. It's a table top game, they're going to imagine most of it within their own worldview.

It is unfortunate that satire tends to go over the head of the people being satirized. Reading 40k lore and thinking that having an authoritarian God Emperor would be a totally cool and good thing is like reading A Modest Proposal and thinking that you could really go for some Irish babies now.

Saying that having a kid play 40k will make them a fascist is just as stupid as saying that having them play Mortal Gods will turn a kid into a Greek. It is something that an idiot at Sigmarxism would say. Or hell, having the kid play Tau and become communist, or even worse, decide to go into the wonderful world of Gunpla. XD

Let them have fun. They are not smoking, drinking doing drugs or doing God knows what else.

This is the most interesting post I've seen here in a while.

If you are dependent on this "other" family who you live with, pushing the issue doesn't seem like a good idea. If the "other, other" family where your cousin is living doesn't want him/her to have video games they may be less cool with it than you expect.

If, hypothetically speaking of course, a 12 year old wanted something his folks were reluctant to get, they might ask for cash or a gift card and then buy it themselves.

Happy gaming!

What to do? Buy him the German version of Space Crusade (german: Starquest).

Why? Starquest is a boardgame and incorporates 40k at the same time.

Why the emphasis on German?

Well, in the German version no models were killed because the weapons got goofy names and silly explanations what would happen, if someone would have been hit by them. This means zero violence and therefore perfect for those helicopter parents.

It seems pretty simple to me. Ask the 12YO's parents if they feel that this would be a suitable hobby - building, painting, playing and socializing. Be honest, and tell them about the setting. If yes - great! If no - then respect their wishes and he can always get into it when he's older (assuming he wants to). Anyone else's opinion (the family you're living with) is rather irrelevant.

I wouldn't be worried about He Man or Dungeons and Dragons turning kinds into devil worshipers. Getting the kid set up to get hooked on plastic crack however could be more of an issue.

ETA: Saying this as one who has already gotten a pair of 10 year olds addicted to building/painting deathguard and marines

40k Lore is 1. Based in a fantasy setting 2. Fiction 3. Fun

There isn't anything evil or overly mature about this game. You would see worse in most first person shooter video games. Yes, the Lore of the game is dark, grimey, etc. But the point of the Lore of the game is that it is of a commentary of the nature of mankind and what spreading ourselves throughout the galaxy could look like for us. It shows a depiction of what different varieties of governance would look like, and how cultures evolve. Motifs ranging from absolutely evil to moderately okay. Yes, it is Grim Dark Gothic future space war with aliens, demons, vampires, robots, sadists, bugs, and werewolves. It is also full of stories of heroism, sacrifice, loyalty, skill, dedication,, hardwork, and devotion.

For reference, I am a highly devout Christian and absolutely love 40k and I play it with my son. Along the way I teach him and discuss with him that the game is fiction, and what many of the characters/races in this game do is immoral and shouldn't be followed. This creates a good father and son bonding experience in a fun way where I get to teach him a skill and a bit about our morals.

That said... it is a decision for the kid's parents. They know their child best. Respect their decision. If they think the child can handle it, so be it. If not, oh well.

Completely agree there Smotejob.

Another thing to consider is, how many of us (especially the grognards here) got into Warhammer through MB Games Space Crusade or Hero Quest? Sold in toy stores alongside Monopoly and Mouse Trap. The latter had a guy swinging a massive sword on the cover, Space Crusade had some guys blasting with machine guns. The first thing you read in the rules manual is a comic strip where the marine squad get wiped out by a Chaos Dreadnought. It's pretty grim stuff, but looking at that stuff at 12 (if not younger) I just thought was soooo cool, and hasn't left me with any longstanding mental issues (other than perhaps a fear of Chaos Dreadnoughts)

I started the game at 12, along side with 17 people. Majority of people played up to 9th ed. Not one of the people who started to play marines started to show signs of love to ancient slavic solar signs or books early XXth century books translated from German or Italian.

10min of news, specially if you can still catch Belarussian, Ukrainian or Russian TV, is more trauma then a fictional book. And 5th class of middle school will teach you all the good stuff about XIXth century and XXth century. And stuff that went down there makes w40k lore look comical.

makes w40k lore look comical.

Which is quite lucky for GW, as it's supposed to be comical. Luckily, we've got the XIXth and XXth century to make it work out for them.

Rihgu wrote:

makes w40k lore look comical.

Which is quite lucky for GW, as it's supposed to be comical. Luckily, we've got the XIXth and XXth century to make it work out for them.

I don't understand english well enough to get what you mean by that. What is lucky about living in a place where stuff from w40k lore seems normal ?

Karol wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

makes w40k lore look comical.

Which is quite lucky for GW, as it's supposed to be comical. Luckily, we've got the XIXth and XXth century to make it work out for them.

I don't understand english well enough to get what you mean by that. What is lucky about living in a place where stuff from w40k lore seems normal ?

I'm making a joke about how 40K lore is comical on its own. The "luckily" bit was sarcasm, implying that if that place that "made 40k lore look comical" didn't exist, the intentional comedy of the lore would fall flat and the GW writers would have failed.

I got into 40k around 12-13ish, I think years of smelling glue and primer screwed me up more than any exposure to lore and ideas did.

Don't you know that if the kid plays the game he'll be down with the rock n' roll music, don't cha know they be down wit' da' Devil. Raising up the horns for Beelzebub.

As a former sensitive 12 year old who loved 40k, I would say it's fine.

Of course 40k is fine for 12 year olds.

If they don't allow it, then buy Don Rosa's Scrooge McDuck comic albums to the kid. That's good preparation for 40k.

The problem isn't sensitive children, it's oversensitive parents. Silly stuff. Be one with the world and do not deny its dark sides.

Does kiddo WANT Blackstone Fortress?

If yes, buy. If no, don't buy.

If opposing household group will make your life miserable for anything more than a day as a result, don't buy.

Ask kiddo what he wants. Buy it.

I'm surprised by the number of people advocating just ignoring the parents' wishes and getting the game anyway.

Regardless of whether they're correct about little Timmy potentially being corrupted by the Warhams (they're not), it is their decision at the end of the day.

Just get something else and give it a year or two.

From what I understand it is not the parents that don't want the game for their kid, but what ever is a fam, of the first post author.

 Smotejob wrote:
40k Lore is 1. Based in a fantasy setting 2. Fiction 3. Fun

There isn't anything evil or overly mature about this game. You would see worse in most first person shooter video games. Yes, the Lore of the game is dark, grimey, etc. But the point of the Lore of the game is that it is of a commentary of the nature of mankind and what spreading ourselves throughout the galaxy could look like for us. It shows a depiction of what different varieties of governance would look like, and how cultures evolve. Motifs ranging from absolutely evil to moderately okay. Yes, it is Grim Dark Gothic future space war with aliens, demons, vampires, robots, sadists, bugs, and werewolves. It is also full of stories of heroism, sacrifice, loyalty, skill, dedication,, hardwork, and devotion.

For reference, I am a highly devout Christian and absolutely love 40k and I play it with my son. Along the way I teach him and discuss with him that the game is fiction, and what many of the characters/races in this game do is immoral and shouldn't be followed. This creates a good father and son bonding experience in a fun way where I get to teach him a skill and a bit about our morals.

That said... it is a decision for the kid's parents. They know their child best. Respect their decision. If they think the child can handle it, so be it. If not, oh well.

Most reasonable post I've read here in a while, Exalted. People often conflate fiction and reality, or at least vastly overstate the effect of the former on the latter.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I'm surprised by the number of people advocating just ignoring the parents' wishes and getting the game anyway.

Regardless of whether they're correct about little Timmy potentially being corrupted by the Warhams (they're not), it is their decision at the end of the day.

It's the OP's parents that have the problem, not the kid's.

Havent played BSF so not sure how good it is as a game.
40k lore though is a weird hang-up to have... I think most kids would just learn the rules and make up their own lore anyway.
And certainly be capable of understanding this is made up fantasy setting...

There are much much much worse things to expose a 12 year old to. YouTube recommended videos with gakky influencers peddling utter nonsense, and tik tok "stars" will turn any child into an absolute moron... and lets not even talk about some of the more unsavoury content. Computer games are addictive as hell and potentially life ruining, so I totally understand this choice.

Boardgames/models seem like a good choice in comparison IMO

Personally id probably get the kid some sort of activity/sport/hobby/music lessons voucher for somethings he's into. Kids are sponges so chances are eve if he has never done something he could get really interested in it.

Of course if the parents wont be able to/unwilling support development of any potential new hobby then maybe not.

A boar game seems like the next best thing.

 Netsurfer733 wrote:
Help, Warhammer community: I want to buy Blackstone Fortress for my cousin's 12 year old birthday, but my fam is putting their foot down, saying 40k is too adult for sensitive kids like them. I must find a way to convince them...I think 12 yrs is old enough for this boy!

Said fam knows 40k lore quite well, so I'm a bit pressed to use any lore-based arguments here. Does anyone have any similar experience, or have any idea how to convince one about such things?

Even Age of Sigmar is better than nothing...but they won't even budge on that lol.

EDIT: Sorry, this is MY fam that is saying NOT to do this for them. The recipient family is entirely cool with anything. Thus the conundrum*!

EDIT 2: It's not my parents that are against it, but the fam I live with.

EDIT 3: To be clear, my in-house fam is very keenly aware of the lore/Warhammer/etc., but the kid's parents are absolutely not, but are generally cool with anything (except video games for some reason).

are you spending your money? is your cousin actually intreasted in this (make sure you don't fall into the trap of assuming people care about your hobbies just because you do) if so.. thats all you need. if it's your money, it's not your parents place to tell you what you can and cannot give your cousin so long as your cousins parents are cool with it. this applies to a video game, a table top wargame, or a subscription to playboy.

There are many ways a child can be sensitive. Specifics might be needed.

Instead of just dismissing concerns about the child in question, who is not young me, just because you g me was cool with horrific violence (had a subscription to Fangoria in grade school), I should actually ask the child if he is interested in this game, its lore and imagery (with the parents’ blessing). He is not young me and trying to force him to be is uncouth.

For example, my son can handle terrifying monsters and a decent amount of gore (saw the end of American Werewolf in London) without issue, but seeing a more grounded film where two people become angry and fist fight each other will give him nightmares. We can read Dreadfleet and Lovecraft without issue, but a story about bullying or a mention of colonial atrocities in a history book bothers him too much to continue.

His cousin is the opposite: she’ll laugh at ‘slapstick’ videos on YouTube that would get a disclaimer on the nightly news, but any monster from a Harry Potter movie will trigger her for a week. She will casually tell stories about torture, homicide or suicide, but will scream if she hears the word “werewolf”.

Neither of these kids plays video games, so they haven’t had that kind of desensitization.


Kids are different. Some kids are sensitive to different things, and for the sake of the kids and their parents it makes sense to play it safe and not maybe cause weeks of sleepless nights for all because you care more about getting the kid to like what you like.

Just picked up WD 463 today- my store has been holding it for months.

There is an amazing letter from a grateful dad (Dad! Not Dead!).

His son has learning challenges. GW taught him to paint and gave him a way to make friends. They taught the dude's wife to paint too.

Thought of this thread right away.

My oldest soen started playign and having some 40k models at age 6. now am i going to have him reading blakc library and reading much of the fluff before he is a teenager? no, but he enjoys little skirmish game stuff