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Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Nurglitch wrote:
Again, really well because they're making money hand over fist.


Not with RPGs they're not (which was the point). What stockholders value GW is their (mostly stolen) IP. Eventually they'll screw up and steal from someone big enough to fight them. It's why they've renamed and changed so much gak over the last few years, in a desperate attempt to make their IP actually copyrightable, after the ChapterHouse case showed just how flimsy their claim of copyright is.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Cool. In the meantime this is about a tournament they're running for one of their games.
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Nurglitch wrote:
Cool. In the meantime this is about a tournament they're running for one of their games.


And, going all the way back to my point about that, this is the sort of policy that should have rightly remained in the pre-Roundtree era. GW having anti-customer policies is nothing new, but the fact that when they mostly abandoned them, business picked up, is not something they apparently noticed.. This policy seems like a throw back to an earlier, more idiotic, GW.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/21 19:06:50



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in ca
Decrepit Dakkanaut





You don't have to buy the tickets if you don't want to go.
   
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Southeastern PA, USA

If I was still active in tournament play, I guess I could pretend like I don't know exactly what they're trying to rein in. It'd be easy enough to make extreme readings of their guidelines and manufacture some outrage about events that I likely wouldn't be able to attend anyway.

But I don't play in 40K tournaments anymore and have no axe to grind against the company. So I hope everyone at those sold-out tournaments has a great time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/21 21:26:02


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 Nurglitch wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
No restaurant is going to throw you out for bringing your own mustard if you don't like the brand they offer.

Head and pauldron swaps have traditionally been allowed in the hobby because (1) you buy the original GW stuff anyway, so it's not costing GW anything in lost sales, and (2) GW doesn't make those products, so you couldn't buy them from GW even if you wanted to. Add to that the embrace GW used to give to customizing your armies, and it's a rare hobby veteran who has armies that don't have some third-party bits in them here and there.

Perhaps amusingly I have several armies that don't have third-party bits in them (SMx2, CSM, Tyranids, AM, Orks). But as Polonius points out, it's a matter of discretion.

@stratigo: Nope, it's not dystopian. That's just how these things work. And you know what? Likewise the rules exist so that the organizers can boot you out at their discretion.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Nurglitch wrote:
Nothing dystopian about requiring people attending your business to buy your products. .


Sorry, but if you have headswaps, you did buy their product. You know, fifteen years later, and people are still white knighting for games workshop like abused spouses, no matter what insane bs they pull this time. Do you know why they allow hand sculpted bits but not cast bits? So they can steal the design, call it their own intellectual property and not even give you credit. If it's some other persons design, they might end up getting sued by another company that can take them to court and not get crushed like you would if you tried to sue them over it.

White-knighting? I don't play in GW tournaments anymore. I haven't played since the summer of 2019. I'm just pointing out that it's their house and their rules. The game isn't my thing anymore, and I could gripe about it until the cows come home, but if you don't want to play by their rules in their house go do something else. I mean, they change the rules so that your army isn't valid anymore, due to rules or modelling or something? Take a hint and go do something you might actually enjoy.


Real life has indeed slid increasingly into corporate dystopia, yes. How neat of you to notice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Nurglitch wrote:
Again, really well because they're making money hand over fist.


Not with RPGs they're not (which was the point). What stockholders value GW is their (mostly stolen) IP. Eventually they'll screw up and steal from someone big enough to fight them. It's why they've renamed and changed so much gak over the last few years, in a desperate attempt to make their IP actually copyrightable, after the ChapterHouse case showed just how flimsy their claim of copyright is.


Most of the renaming is because word like imperial guard or space marines aren't trademarkable and the courts laughed GW's attempts to argue they were out.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/22 01:17:21


 
   
Made in us
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The Golden Throne

Fantastic!
   
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Lincolnton, N.C.

Nurglitch wrote:Since I've soured on 40k lately, it occurred to me that there's something kind of weird about people liking 40k so much they'll play it with non-GW miniatures. I mean, the game is that good?! Obviously this should be read as 'the game is that good for so many people' but it's hard to really grok, you know?

The reverse is true for me: the miniatures are fantastic, and wonderful to collect, model/convert, and paint but I wouldn't play the game with them.


More like trying to find a FUN way to play the game. Rules wise the game hasn't been FUN since 3rd, but recently GW has done everything in it's power to stop on the throat of the hobbyists, and make the game 'buy x to win' and having to buy 50 books to play one army. It's why 3d printing, 3rd party bits, and conversions are taking off because that's the hobbyists jam. And the real fans of the game use Battlescribe and avoid the 'official app' like the plague it is.

And it's why now units are only getting options that's in the box, their monoposed, and the codex/supplement/and new edition every year like Madden is going on. They went people to come in, buy all the meta stuff, paint it, play a tournament, shift the meta, watch people dump their stuff to ebay, and run to the stuff, and buy all the new meta, rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat, WAAC is god, etc.

BaronIveagh wrote:
 Polonius wrote:


In addition to the above, we will ask for any models with iconography that represents real military units or political movements in existence after 1900, or adult themed content to be removed immediately.


So, quite possibly, even genuine Dark Eldar and Juan Diaz Daemonettes may be grounds for being thrown out.

I'm not seeing a lot of 'compromise' here.


Funny thing is, GW MADE Female Space Marine models, and MADE naked Dark Eldar slave girls and Diaz Daemonettes (still the best sculpts. And I wish I hadn't sold mine.) So there's no good reason to throw them out.

Nurglitch wrote:Nothing dystopian about requiring people attending your business to buy your products. I mean, typically you're not permitted to bring your own food into a restaurant or movie theatre either. Or condiments, I believe, if we can make an analogy to Space Marine shoulder pads.


Better analogy would be banned from a restaurant for getting take out, and then putting your own stuff on it at home or using the take out to make your own meal. Or more to the point, it'd be like a grocery store having a cooking contest, and you buy some of the ingredients from that grocery store, but get disqualified because your 'sauce' had ingredients from another store.

BaronIveagh wrote:
 Nurglitch wrote:
Nothing dystopian about requiring people attending your business to buy your products. .


Sorry, but if you have headswaps, you did buy their product. You know, fifteen years later, and people are still white knighting for games workshop like abused spouses, no matter what insane bs they pull this time. Do you know why they allow hand sculpted bits but not cast bits? So they can steal the design, call it their own intellectual property and not even give you credit. If it's some other persons design, they might end up getting sued by another company that can take them to court and not get crushed like you would if you tried to sue them over it.


^ this. I'm getting really annoyed by the GW purists. I remember in 2003, the IN STORE policy was 75/25 of GW to other stuff. And had troll magazines and conversion guides in their own books, Hell iirc the first Land Raiders were tanks from another company and converted. And they seem to forget that. But modern GW has turned from a hobby game into something like EA's predatory practices. No fun or personalization allowed, just spend money, and when you're done spend more money next year when we change everything... yet keep it all the same.

BaronIveagh wrote:
 Nurglitch wrote:

White-knighting? I don't play in GW tournaments anymore. I haven't played since the summer of 2019. I'm just pointing out that it's their house and their rules. The game isn't my thing anymore, and I could gripe about it until the cows come home, but if you don't want to play by their rules in their house go do something else.


I haven't played in one since a decade before you last did then.

 Nurglitch wrote:

I mean, they change the rules so that your army isn't valid anymore, due to rules or modelling or something?


Do you seriously think that I'd have as much beef with them as I do if it were something that silly? I mean, seriously, between GW threatening me with legal action, and the entire BFG debacle, I don't think it unfair at all for my to see this as a return to form for them. It's ironic, but they made the old Flash Gits animation relevant again.






Now that video is accurate.

BaronIveagh wrote:
 Nurglitch wrote:
Again, really well because they're making money hand over fist.


Not with RPGs they're not (which was the point). What stockholders value GW is their (mostly stolen) IP. Eventually they'll screw up and steal from someone big enough to fight them. It's why they've renamed and changed so much gak over the last few years, in a desperate attempt to make their IP actually copyrightable, after the ChapterHouse case showed just how flimsy their claim of copyright is.


I hope the renaming stuff one day bites them in the rear, and even now no one calls their stuff by the renamed gobblygook. It's still Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Eldar, etc. And Chapterhouse closing was a sad day. I'm looking for them to sledgehammer Pop Goes the Monkey at some point.

Nurglitch wrote:You don't have to buy the tickets if you don't want to go.


Don't have to buy tickets, and won't. But there's also nothing wrong with encouraging other people to not buy them as well until they change or die.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/22 06:45:22


My beloved 40K armies:
Children of Stirba
Order of Saint Pan Thera


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 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:You don't have to buy the tickets if you don't want to go.


Don't have to buy tickets, and won't. But there's also nothing wrong with encouraging other people to not buy them as well until they change or die.

There is, actually. Now, this is going to be a tad unintuitive, but consider all the passion you're putting into encouraging other people not to buy GW products or services until GW changes or dies. It's all about GW. All you're doing is keeping GW in people's minds and centered in the conversation. Grinding that axe against GW is just going to remind people that GW sells GW branded stuff. It's kind of like that old saw that all publicity is good publicity, and you're not only providing it for free, but contrary to your owns aims and goals.

You see, again this is going to sound weird, but whether you love GW or hate it, you care about it and caring is what keeps it going. That's what all the Warhammer Community fan-engagement stuff is about, that's why they're back into the tournament scene, etc. Now, if you care about something else, you can not only enjoy that thing, but you're going to encourage other people to care about it. The only way to avoid 'feeding the beast' is to feed something else, if only for your own mental health. Let people enjoy something and go find something else you can enjoy. Maybe people will see you enjoying it and be encouraged to share it, maybe they won't, but at least you'll enjoy it.

@gorgon has it right: not our thing anymore, but all the best to everyone who participates!
   
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Seneca Nation of Indians

 Nurglitch wrote:

There is, actually. Now, this is going to be a tad unintuitive, but consider all the passion you're putting into encouraging other people not to buy GW products or services until GW changes or dies. It's all about GW. All you're doing is keeping GW in people's minds and centered in the conversation. Grinding that axe against GW is just going to remind people that GW sells GW branded stuff. It's kind of like that old saw that all publicity is good publicity, and you're not only providing it for free, but contrary to your owns aims and goals.


If we were dumb enough to do it that way, you'd have a point.

But, most of the time, we instead endorse, and even create, products for other companies. But when GW does something like this, as an attempt to cut into sales of the companies we actually do like, such as Victoria Miniatures, Anvil Industries, and so on, there's absolutely nothing wrong with speaking out against GW. You seem to miss, in your white knighting for them, that what they did here is an attack against those companies. An effort to cost them business, while at the same time returning to being the GW that was the company best known for suing it's fans for having 40k Tattoos.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Stevefamine wrote:
Those anti-conversion rules invalidate 80-90% of armies at events.

Throne of Skulls and the GTs after 2010 were all really mediocre events. Zero interest.

Why would you attend this when you could go to Nova/Adepticon?


Are these on literally same days?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Nurglitch wrote:
Cool. In the meantime this is about a tournament they're running for one of their games.


And, going all the way back to my point about that, this is the sort of policy that should have rightly remained in the pre-Roundtree era. GW having anti-customer policies is nothing new, but the fact that when they mostly abandoned them, business picked up, is not something they apparently noticed.. This policy seems like a throw back to an earlier, more idiotic, GW.


Out of curiosity can you go to mtg tournament with 3rd party printed cards?

Companies expecting their product to be used in own events isn't novel concept. 3rd party tournaments another thing.

(also 3rd party bits and pieces and models actually have in game balance effect so the tournament esport tryhards have vested interest getting rid of those)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/22 20:09:48


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Made in us
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Seneca Nation of Indians

tneva82 wrote:

Out of curiosity can you go to mtg tournament with 3rd party printed cards?


Not sure about currently, but in the old days, yes, as long as it wasn't distinguishable from genuine MTG cards. In fact, to expand this example to include bits, I can recall a time that alternate card art stickers were a popular fad among MTG players, but that was a LONG time ago.

tneva82 wrote:

(also 3rd party bits and pieces and models actually have in game balance effect so the tournament esport tryhards have vested interest getting rid of those)



One, I have to ask, what headswaps and SM shoulder pads are you using to get advantage? Is there a pouch bit that gives guardsmen an invulnerability save that I haven't heard of or something?

Two, this new policy does nothing to stop players from creating their own, it only prohibits players from using commercially available ones.




Edit: I took the time to look up the current rules for MtG tournaments, since it's been an (ice) age since I played and while the current rules do prohibit it, they only disallow altering the cards if it, in some way, marks the card or makes it unrecognizable, though this is seemingly waived for Secret Lair, who's altered cards are expressly tournament legal. Further, rather than disqualifying, the judge may instead issue a proxy to be used in a card's place.

So, sort of an apples and oranges comparison there.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/22 20:46:51



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in ca
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Canada

The rules in the tourney pack for painting and modelling are reasonable, and the TO leaves the door open for creativity if you reach out ahead of time. Having actual FW models is a sound policy.

These are GW events and they have wait lists. The wait lists tell us what we really need to know.

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Leicester, UK

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
The rules in the tourney pack for painting and modelling are reasonable, and the TO leaves the door open for creativity if you reach out ahead of time. Having actual FW models is a sound policy.

These are GW events and they have wait lists. The wait lists tell us what we really need to know.


+1

However I would add that although success can make you immune to criticism, it doesn't invaliate the criticism itself. These tournaments have acted as a spur to discussion about 'correct' modelling which I gather is nothing new; it's no surprise people feel strongly given the amount of effort they put in. Having said that I get the feeling some of those (not in this thread) with the strongest opinions have not actually read the tournament pack, or if they did, they did not consider the context.

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Lincolnton, N.C.

BaronIveagh wrote:
 Nurglitch wrote:

There is, actually. Now, this is going to be a tad unintuitive, but consider all the passion you're putting into encouraging other people not to buy GW products or services until GW changes or dies. It's all about GW. All you're doing is keeping GW in people's minds and centered in the conversation. Grinding that axe against GW is just going to remind people that GW sells GW branded stuff. It's kind of like that old saw that all publicity is good publicity, and you're not only providing it for free, but contrary to your owns aims and goals.


If we were dumb enough to do it that way, you'd have a point.

But, most of the time, we instead endorse, and even create, products for other companies. But when GW does something like this, as an attempt to cut into sales of the companies we actually do like, such as Victoria Miniatures, Anvil Industries, and so on, there's absolutely nothing wrong with speaking out against GW. You seem to miss, in your white knighting for them, that what they did here is an attack against those companies. An effort to cost them business, while at the same time returning to being the GW that was the company best known for suing it's fans for having 40k Tattoos.


I'm not encouraging people to not buy GW models, I'm encouraging people to go to non GW events, play older and better editions of the game, and play with conversions, paint your army to make it your own. Put it another way, even if it's not a great comparison, when D&D killed 3.5 and went to 4th, people either kept playing 3.5, or they moved on and played Pathfinder, and made it a viable competitor to D&D, and people USED D&D minis, dice, gaming aids, etc. for Pathfinder. And Hasbro/WOTC got the freakin' memo, and made a good product again in 5th, to get people to play THIER game again. And they haven't lost any money, from 3d printed models, conversions, non Hasbro paint sets, etc. And are still making money hand over fist, and people are playing it more than ever it seems. And they are on 5th ed. Of a game that came out in the 70s. And 40K will PROBABLY be on it's 10th edition sometime in 2022ish. Says a lot about turnover just to jerk customers around with forced purchases that devalue like college textbook buyback.

But yeah, like Baron points out, we give money to 3rd party companies, to make our armies are own. And those companies MAKE GW money, because people BUY a GW kit, and BUY Victoria miniatures, BUY Kromlech, BUY Pop Goes the Monkey, etc. bitz and pieces to make their armies. If GW bans them, they KILL the incentive for people to give GW money, for the kits they'd use.

Put it this way to make my point with a bit of self show off this is my thread of my Chaos Army: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/789142.page
It uses pieces from Hordes, Wargames Factory, Albedo Combat Patrol, Frostgrave, and some old lead Ral Partha pieces. EVERY piece in my army started with a GW purchase, and GW model as the base.

My army is now illegal at GW events and stores. Despite them getting every possible cent from me. Despite years ago it being welcomed.


tneva82 wrote:
Out of curiosity can you go to mtg tournament with 3rd party printed cards?

Companies expecting their product to be used in own events isn't novel concept. 3rd party tournaments another thing.

(also 3rd party bits and pieces and models actually have in game balance effect so the tournament esport tryhards have vested interest getting rid of those)


First off the esport tryhards they have no place in tabletop wargaming HOBBY.

Secondly, wouldn't use 3d printed cards, but I'm damn sure a mtg tournament wouldn't care if my spindown, my gaming mat, tokens, card sleeves, etc. were 3d printed or bought third party. If GW was running MTG you'd only be allowed to use their products down to the card sleeves, and binders where you store the cards, and you'd be limited to pre constructed store bought decks and the options there within.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:The rules in the tourney pack for painting and modelling are reasonable, and the TO leaves the door open for creativity if you reach out ahead of time. Having actual FW models is a sound policy.

These are GW events and they have wait lists. The wait lists tell us what we really need to know.


And Madden MUT is a 1.4 billion dollar predatory gambling mechanic, doesn't make it reasonable, or moral, and that people are being pressured into something they don't want. With no viable alternatives around. So what's your point?

My beloved 40K armies:
Children of Stirba
Order of Saint Pan Thera


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Removed, you can decline to attend an event without the vitriol and hyperbole - ingtær.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/23 14:49:55


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St. Louis

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
And Madden MUT is a 1.4 billion dollar predatory gambling mechanic, doesn't make it reasonable, or moral, and that people are being pressured into something they don't want. With no viable alternatives around. So what's your point?

You're right. Nobody has ever run tournaments other than GW. We really need an international tournament scene that GW doesn't control. I wonder what that might look like.
   
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Lincolnton, N.C.

You clearly didn't read what I posted.

My beloved 40K armies:
Children of Stirba
Order of Saint Pan Thera


DA:80S++G+M++B++IPw40K(3)00/re-D+++A++/eWD233R---T(M)DM+ 
   
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Sesto San Giovanni, Italy

That irks me a lot. Not the painting request: they aren't the best and could be better, but I can't criticize the approach to make the model count. But the essentially total ban on modeling? All the model that I have and that I like the most are illegal... So it's just another steps towards GW irrelevance.
What is a model hobby when model are an expression of corporate branding rather than players creativity? It's something THEY SHOULD PAY ME TO PLAY, since I'll be a promoter (not a customer). Not the other way around.

I would rather leave GW purchases (or relegate them to the second hand market, as I'm doing for a few years now) rather than those of than any other 3rd party sellers.


But it's good for them, I suppose. Squeeze that whales before they go extinct, and don't let the kid play outside your garden: they might find out there's a forest of there.
Neither one is a particular intelligent business strategy. But that's what I expect from the bean counters.
Stuff like blowing up the Old World for petty copyright reason, mish-mash high fantasy tropes for AoS, and then launch "the Old World".
What do you expect by a company so clearly bad at long-term strategy (probably they believe strategy is something you find in their games?)

Stuff like the "living rulebook" in 8th silently forgotten for a new edition, or the release of a book to cancel it a few weeks later.

Business speaking, GW is the Emperor. A rotten carcass that thrive because none want to admit it's dead.

I can't condone a place where abusers and abused are threated the same: it's destined to doom, so there is no reason to participate in it. 
   
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Lincolnton, N.C.

 Cybtroll wrote:
That irks me a lot. Not the painting request: they aren't the best and could be better, but I can't criticize the approach to make the model count. But the essentially total ban on modeling? All the model that I have and that I like the most are illegal... So it's just another steps towards GW irrelevance.
What is a model hobby when model are an expression of corporate branding rather than players creativity? It's something THEY SHOULD PAY ME TO PLAY, since I'll be a promoter (not a customer). Not the other way around.

I would rather leave GW purchases (or relegate them to the second hand market, as I'm doing for a few years now) rather than those of than any other 3rd party sellers.


But it's good for them, I suppose. Squeeze that whales before they go extinct, and don't let the kid play outside your garden: they might find out there's a forest of there.
Neither one is a particular intelligent business strategy. But that's what I expect from the bean counters.
Stuff like blowing up the Old World for petty copyright reason, mish-mash high fantasy tropes for AoS, and then launch "the Old World".
What do you expect by a company so clearly bad at long-term strategy (probably they believe strategy is something you find in their games?)

Stuff like the "living rulebook" in 8th silently forgotten for a new edition, or the release of a book to cancel it a few weeks later.

Business speaking, GW is the Emperor. A rotten carcass that thrive because none want to admit it's dead.


^ This exactly.

My beloved 40K armies:
Children of Stirba
Order of Saint Pan Thera


DA:80S++G+M++B++IPw40K(3)00/re-D+++A++/eWD233R---T(M)DM+ 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Leicester, UK

@Cybtroll
I am sensing a touch of cynicism there mate. Why don't you tell us what you really think

Seriously though, reading between the lines, conversions with 3rd party bits will be allowed, as long as you get them approved first.

My painting and modeling blog:

PaddyMick's Chopshop: Converted 40K Vehicles

 
   
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Well, except that's not what the rules actually say, nor did Brandt say that. He just said most armies had been approved, not that any had been approved that used third-party bits.

I mean maybe it's all a big "don't ask, don't tell" thing. But we don't have any actual evidence of that, and presumably we won't because it's not like someone who submitted an illegal army and got it approved is going to be like "hey guys don't worry, my illegal army was approved!"

So it just comes down to a question of whether you trust GW to not enforce its own rules.
   
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You're not being deliberately obtuse, are you?
   
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My army is near completely impossible to play now at this tourney.
   
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yukishiro1 wrote:
Well, except that's not what the rules actually say, nor did Brandt say that. He just said most armies had been approved, not that any had been approved that used third-party bits.

I mean maybe it's all a big "don't ask, don't tell" thing. But we don't have any actual evidence of that, and presumably we won't because it's not like someone who submitted an illegal army and got it approved is going to be like "hey guys don't worry, my illegal army was approved!"

So it just comes down to a question of whether you trust GW to not enforce its own rules.


It’s usually don’t ask don’t tell, but salty tournie players (usually your mid table champion) will tattle. I would not be shocked if a few try to invent third party bits on armies that have none
   
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Southeastern PA, USA

 Cybtroll wrote:
Business speaking, GW is the Emperor. A rotten carcass that thrive because none want to admit it's dead.


Yeah, that makes sense. That they're a dying company propped up by record profits, great kits, soaring popularity and sold-out tournaments.





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 gorgon wrote:

Yeah, that makes sense. That they're a dying company propped up by record profits, great kits, soaring popularity and sold-out tournaments.


One would hope they're enjoying record profits, since they keep raising prices while their production costs remain flat. It still only costs them five dollars from design to store shelf to produce a box of space marines.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Pegasus Knight






I just bought two HG grade Gundam models, easier to assemble and well detailed at a cheaper cost than a kit of 10, 20 year old Guardsmen. It's partially off topic but, Christ.
   
Made in us
Noise Marine Terminator with Sonic Blaster





Lincolnton, N.C.

BaronIveagh wrote:
 gorgon wrote:

Yeah, that makes sense. That they're a dying company propped up by record profits, great kits, soaring popularity and sold-out tournaments.


One would hope they're enjoying record profits, since they keep raising prices while their production costs remain flat. It still only costs them five dollars from design to store shelf to produce a box of space marines.



Not to mention the artificial numbers shuffling to make investors happy. And the profits made from forcing people to buy new editions every other year, and new codexes, supplements, campaign books, etc. Killing off the usability of WELL ESTABLISHED units, sending them to the ban bin i.e. Legends. to force people to scrap them and buy the new shiny thing, they may not even want, but have to buy so they can even play the game.

The amount of money you have to put down WITHOUT BUYING ANY MODELS is lunacy and predatory.

My beloved 40K armies:
Children of Stirba
Order of Saint Pan Thera


DA:80S++G+M++B++IPw40K(3)00/re-D+++A++/eWD233R---T(M)DM+ 
   
Made in ca
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader






I hope the folks attending these events have a great time. I wish they would run one of these events near where I live, that'd be really fun!

Looking forward to when I can attend events again. I look forward to reading the coverage of these events!

Wolfspear's 2k
Harlequins 2k
Chaos Knights 2k
Spiderfangs 2k
Ossiarch Bonereapers 1k 
   
 
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