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Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Wyldhunt wrote:
Spoiler:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
And...the Kill Rig is probably the bigger problem...


Haven't seen that one yet. Wanna share Daed? What's so problematic about it?


T8 W16 3+/6++

Melee - 6 S8 AP2 D2, 4 S5 AP1, 4 S7 AP2 D3

+1 to hit Monster/Vehicle

Shooting -
1 S8 AP2 D3 - reroll hits vs V/M - if a V/M suffers wounds on a 4+ they can't move outside of 12" from this model
D3 S9 AP3 D6 - autohit
D6 DS6 AP1 D2 - ooLOS ( has TFC stratagems )

Ramshackle
Transport 10 / Open Topped
Reroll charges

Cast 2 powers / deny 1

Frazzle - WC6 - each enemy unit in 9" takes D3 MW on 4+

This is also a character able to take a trait and a relic, so if there aren't restrictions it will have a 4++.

190 points


All of THAT is 190 PPM? That's cheaper than my Sicaran. And it's a character? What's the BS/WS and ranges on those guns?

What am I missing? That's a lot of neat abilities, but it also looks pretty comparable to a Leman Russ defensively before you factor in invulns. (Where is that 4++ coming from?) And a lot of those tricks seem to be short-ranged meaning you probably get at least one or two turns to kill it before it can bring everything to bear.

Well, it's a LOT for 190 PPM. But if it can't get that 4++ it will die fairly easily.

Hey Daed! Where's the 4++ coming from? The Badmoons warlord trait? Can a Beastsnagga unit have that?


From a relic, BUT the app doesn't indicate he can't take it where the book might.

The usual WS3 BS5. Ranges are 12/24/48.

Thanks Daed. So not that impressive if it can't get that 4++. BUT, it's still a lot for 190 PPM when compared to similar units. That's the same price as a Leman Russ with heavy bolter sponsons, but with a 6++, and 4 more wounds. Doesn't mean it's undercosted, but it could mean some of those similar units are overcosted. Especially compared to similar units that cost more points and CP. But that doesn't make it broken.

The only thing impressive about the White Squig dude is that he can get back up on a 4+. My clawlord averages more damage, and 10 Warp Talons with Prey On the Weak can shred him. So no "broken" there either.


Or, one could note that the kill rig deals very little damage at any kind of range, moves 10" without fly and a gigantic base, and in melee honestly doesn't do all that much damage - about 7 unsaved wounds on average vs a T7 3+ target.


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Thanks Daed. So not that impressive if it can't get that 4++. BUT, it's still a lot for 190 PPM when compared to similar units. That's the same price as a Leman Russ with heavy bolter sponsons, but with a 6++, and 4 more wounds. Doesn't mean it's undercosted, but it could mean some of those similar units are overcosted. Especially compared to similar units that cost more points and CP. But that doesn't make it broken.


For sure - it totally hinges on relic and trait availability.

   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





Watched that cringe video and thought, it's actually a cool, decent character..not broken though, but good.
The MW from the bite is nasty, but it won't happen very often, but that time you get 2-3 6s to wound....something's gonna get chomped! Just gotta shrug that one off.I mean, it's a land shark basically.

That guy was an idiot though, thank god I've not encountered his videos before.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





Whilst I dont play and skim read to keep up to date I think its 'combo-creep', as GW seemingly can't spot simple stuff like the Dark Tech / Flamers let alone nested auras, doctrines and stratagems (which is as I understand it the cornerstone of the Admech being the new hotness)

I'm also of the mind that for all the snark I throw at the dubs they aren't doing this out of any lack of thinking, its on purpose and will drag on until 10e reset as once everyones broken nobody is (as we all enjoyed battle companies and og ynnari right...)

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 bullyboy wrote:
Watched that cringe video and thought, it's actually a cool, decent character..not broken though, but good.
The MW from the bite is nasty, but it won't happen very often, but that time you get 2-3 6s to wound....something's gonna get chomped! Just gotta shrug that one off.I mean, it's a land shark basically.

That guy was an idiot though, thank god I've not encountered his videos before.


You have to remember the Anti-Ork mindset so many people have, including some ork players. Orkz aren't allowed to have good things and/or competitive things.

The Loota bomb of 8th was competitive, absolutely top tier but not even Eradicator levels of broken. It required not 1, not 2, not 3 but a grand total of 7CP turn 1 and 6CP a turn after that to function and it also required 180pts of Grot shields to die for it at a minimum. What did you get out of that? on average about 100 S7 shots. Sounds amazing, until you remember it was BS5 so even with the extra dakka it worked out to 44-45 hits, against a SM that was 30ish wounds and 15 dead Marines. All for the low low price of about 1/3rd of your army and ALL your CP.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




SemperMortis wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
Watched that cringe video and thought, it's actually a cool, decent character..not broken though, but good.
The MW from the bite is nasty, but it won't happen very often, but that time you get 2-3 6s to wound....something's gonna get chomped! Just gotta shrug that one off.I mean, it's a land shark basically.

That guy was an idiot though, thank god I've not encountered his videos before.


You have to remember the Anti-Ork mindset so many people have, including some ork players. Orkz aren't allowed to have good things and/or competitive things.

The Loota bomb of 8th was competitive, absolutely top tier but not even Eradicator levels of broken. It required not 1, not 2, not 3 but a grand total of 7CP turn 1 and 6CP a turn after that to function and it also required 180pts of Grot shields to die for it at a minimum. What did you get out of that? on average about 100 S7 shots. Sounds amazing, until you remember it was BS5 so even with the extra dakka it worked out to 44-45 hits, against a SM that was 30ish wounds and 15 dead Marines. All for the low low price of about 1/3rd of your army and ALL your CP.


I've never seen anyone have an anti-ork mindset, would love to see some examples though? The only common complaints people tend to show are the absurd names they can't remember (see buggies) and the issues historically with slow play (120+ boy lists).
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Yeah, Orks are basically universally the most beloved faction for people to play against. And it's not because they always lose. I've had opponents laugh incredibly hard when I dunk on something with a SAG or a warboss goes on a rampage.

People love Orks because they're silly looking, and have comparatively few rules that typically feel inherently 'unfair' - you generally get to use the rules you paid for against orks, and when you don't it's got some amusing explanation like 'I get a 6+ invulnerable because my gak's so ramshackle that you might hit something that wasn't important - oh look, a 6! nice meltagun, goober, that half of my tank wasn't even important!"

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, Orks are basically universally the most beloved faction for people to play against. And it's not because they always lose. I've had opponents laugh incredibly hard when I dunk on something with a SAG or a warboss goes on a rampage.

People love Orks because they're silly looking, and have comparatively few rules that typically feel inherently 'unfair' - you generally get to use the rules you paid for against orks, and when you don't it's got some amusing explanation like 'I get a 6+ invulnerable because my gak's so ramshackle that you might hit something that wasn't important - oh look, a 6! nice meltagun, goober, that half of my tank wasn't even important!"


yea i have had them laugh about things like... of the 6 damage from a lascannon hit the engine, but that engine was just the loud one the one driving the wheels is under the bed". Also we have so much stuff on the board to destroy, and we know its all made of tissue paper so don't get upset when we lose a model worth 1/5 the points on the board because no non war of lord we have costs that much.

I am not a fan of the vect like stuff where you are denying the other army being able to do something.

10000 points 7000
6000
5000
5000
2000
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Dudeface wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
Watched that cringe video and thought, it's actually a cool, decent character..not broken though, but good.
The MW from the bite is nasty, but it won't happen very often, but that time you get 2-3 6s to wound....something's gonna get chomped! Just gotta shrug that one off.I mean, it's a land shark basically.

That guy was an idiot though, thank god I've not encountered his videos before.


You have to remember the Anti-Ork mindset so many people have, including some ork players. Orkz aren't allowed to have good things and/or competitive things.

The Loota bomb of 8th was competitive, absolutely top tier but not even Eradicator levels of broken. It required not 1, not 2, not 3 but a grand total of 7CP turn 1 and 6CP a turn after that to function and it also required 180pts of Grot shields to die for it at a minimum. What did you get out of that? on average about 100 S7 shots. Sounds amazing, until you remember it was BS5 so even with the extra dakka it worked out to 44-45 hits, against a SM that was 30ish wounds and 15 dead Marines. All for the low low price of about 1/3rd of your army and ALL your CP.


I've never seen anyone have an anti-ork mindset, would love to see some examples though? The only common complaints people tend to show are the absurd names they can't remember (see buggies) and the issues historically with slow play (120+ boy lists).


LMAO, Xenos complained about orkz being too powerful in 8th among many others

I have seen a load of players on this very forum complain that their units need to be buffed because they can't kill X amount of boyz in a turn. Christ, how many Marine players pissed and moaned after Aggressors went from killing an entire unit of boyz in 1 turn to needing 2. The complaints about Loota bomb and Ghaz being OP were hilarious as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/20 15:38:36


 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles






Dudeface wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
Watched that cringe video and thought, it's actually a cool, decent character..not broken though, but good.
The MW from the bite is nasty, but it won't happen very often, but that time you get 2-3 6s to wound....something's gonna get chomped! Just gotta shrug that one off.I mean, it's a land shark basically.

That guy was an idiot though, thank god I've not encountered his videos before.


You have to remember the Anti-Ork mindset so many people have, including some ork players. Orkz aren't allowed to have good things and/or competitive things.

The Loota bomb of 8th was competitive, absolutely top tier but not even Eradicator levels of broken. It required not 1, not 2, not 3 but a grand total of 7CP turn 1 and 6CP a turn after that to function and it also required 180pts of Grot shields to die for it at a minimum. What did you get out of that? on average about 100 S7 shots. Sounds amazing, until you remember it was BS5 so even with the extra dakka it worked out to 44-45 hits, against a SM that was 30ish wounds and 15 dead Marines. All for the low low price of about 1/3rd of your army and ALL your CP.


I've never seen anyone have an anti-ork mindset, would love to see some examples though? The only common complaints people tend to show are the absurd names they can't remember (see buggies) and the issues historically with slow play (120+ boy lists).

Orks MUST have some ran-dumb abilities that may or may not hurt themselves. Just like Tau cannot ever ever EVER have anything decent in melee, remotely psychic, or hits on 3+ without some kind of overcosted drawback. It's a bit frustrating when your shooting army can't hit anything or your hoard blows itself up and dies. Chaos gets a guest mention since they have a few variable/randumb units. It's a double edged sword, because those kinds of units ARE fun in a narrative mindset, but equally frustrating from a competitive mindset.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Oooo! I forgot, the wonderful SAG. People used to complain about that when it used to kill its operator as often as its target, and in 8th when we got our SSAG, WOW! The salt flowed freely. So much so that when 9th got released GW made it a point to not only nerf the SAG, but to beat it into the ground and than place concrete over its still twitching corpse.

Don't worry though, they have since calmed down a bit and the SAG is now just as bad as it used to be pre-8th. You can now pay 15pts on top of its already over priced base cost to move it from Heavy D6 to Heavy 2D3. LMAO!

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





SemperMortis wrote:
Oooo! I forgot, the wonderful SAG. People used to complain about that when it used to kill its operator as often as its target, and in 8th when we got our SSAG, WOW! The salt flowed freely. So much so that when 9th got released GW made it a point to not only nerf the SAG, but to beat it into the ground and than place concrete over its still twitching corpse.

Don't worry though, they have since calmed down a bit and the SAG is now just as bad as it used to be pre-8th. You can now pay 15pts on top of its already over priced base cost to move it from Heavy D6 to Heavy 2D3. LMAO!


I would absolutely spend 15 points to never had to use CP on a reroll for shots.

   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Oooo! I forgot, the wonderful SAG. People used to complain about that when it used to kill its operator as often as its target, and in 8th when we got our SSAG, WOW! The salt flowed freely. So much so that when 9th got released GW made it a point to not only nerf the SAG, but to beat it into the ground and than place concrete over its still twitching corpse.

Don't worry though, they have since calmed down a bit and the SAG is now just as bad as it used to be pre-8th. You can now pay 15pts on top of its already over priced base cost to move it from Heavy D6 to Heavy 2D3. LMAO!


I would absolutely spend 15 points to never had to use CP on a reroll for shots.


Well, that's just you then, and also you can't do that anyway

the SAG has always been randumb but at least before it was kind of fun. it's just dull now - 110pts for 1d6 shots, 2d6 random strength, d6 damage....at least now, AFAIK, you roll for its strength when you select it to shoot with (BEFORE you select a target...thank god...) and its at least BS4+ instead of BS5+.

IDK I suspect youd pretty much always be better off with almost any other HQ option as your obligatory 'not a WARBOSS' hq. Even the nerfed KFF. I mean it's always going to be a weirdboy, I assume, there's always going to be SOMETHING you're gonna want to Fists of Gork or Warpath.

He's basically a shittier Mek Gun for more than double the cost.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Just for your information, leaks confirmed that the kil rig can't take relics unless they can specifically be taken by VEHICLES. Which isn't a whole lot of them, specifically none of the ones that people were losing their mind about.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Jidmah wrote:
Just for your information, leaks confirmed that the kil rig can't take relics unless they can specifically be taken by VEHICLES. Which isn't a whole lot of them, specifically none of the ones that people were losing their mind about.


That's good to hear. Shows how poor a job the app is doing at presenting good info.

   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





I'll reserve judgement on the "every release is broken" till we see the Nids book. Almost every Nid release since 5th has been mid-low tier at release.


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 the_scotsman wrote:

Well, that's just you then, and also you can't do that anyway

the SAG has always been randumb but at least before it was kind of fun. it's just dull now - 110pts for 1d6 shots, 2d6 random strength, d6 damage....at least now, AFAIK, you roll for its strength when you select it to shoot with (BEFORE you select a target...thank god...) and its at least BS4+ instead of BS5+.

IDK I suspect youd pretty much always be better off with almost any other HQ option as your obligatory 'not a WARBOSS' hq. Even the nerfed KFF. I mean it's always going to be a weirdboy, I assume, there's always going to be SOMETHING you're gonna want to Fists of Gork or Warpath.

He's basically a shittier Mek Gun for more than double the cost.


Confused - can't do what?

In any case you have to consider the other benefits of the SAG - character protection and repairs. Rolling the strength before targeting is a big deal for that gun.

With an average 4 S7 AP5 DD6 is pretty equivalent to a couple Smasha MGs for 90, but just easier to protect. If you roll gak strength, well, that's just being an Ork.

   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





 Sim-Life wrote:
I'll reserve judgement on the "every release is broken" till we see the Nids book. Almost every Nid release since 5th has been mid-low tier at release.

GW hates nids - they always get a weak book. Their PA release was Laughable.
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






 Sim-Life wrote:
I'll reserve judgement on the "every release is broken" till we see the Nids book. Almost every Nid release since 5th has been mid-low tier at release.


I hope not, i am putting a lot of time and effort into a new army of them. last night built 18 more warriors and 4 pyrovores to sub assemblies to paint

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5000
5000
2000
 
   
Made in ca
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot






Nids will get one unit/loadout type that rocks the meta, before GW nerfs it.

 Rippy wrote:
When you lose to a 7 year old, it's wise to not come and admit it and then try to blame the armies


Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750 
   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





 Thadin wrote:
Nids will get one unit/loadout type that rocks the meta, before GW nerfs it.


Can't wait for the toxicrene spam meta.


 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




North Carolina

 Sim-Life wrote:
 Thadin wrote:
Nids will get one unit/loadout type that rocks the meta, before GW nerfs it.


Can't wait for the toxicrene spam meta.


Unironically, I'm about it. I have 3 of every turd Nids MC. Of course, if they ever become on-meta I'll probably be too hip to actually run them. If I'm spamming the great stuff, I can't whine about always losing.
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 the_scotsman wrote:
Spoiler:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Wyldhunt wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
And...the Kill Rig is probably the bigger problem...


Haven't seen that one yet. Wanna share Daed? What's so problematic about it?


T8 W16 3+/6++

Melee - 6 S8 AP2 D2, 4 S5 AP1, 4 S7 AP2 D3

+1 to hit Monster/Vehicle

Shooting -
1 S8 AP2 D3 - reroll hits vs V/M - if a V/M suffers wounds on a 4+ they can't move outside of 12" from this model
D3 S9 AP3 D6 - autohit
D6 DS6 AP1 D2 - ooLOS ( has TFC stratagems )

Ramshackle
Transport 10 / Open Topped
Reroll charges

Cast 2 powers / deny 1

Frazzle - WC6 - each enemy unit in 9" takes D3 MW on 4+

This is also a character able to take a trait and a relic, so if there aren't restrictions it will have a 4++.

190 points


All of THAT is 190 PPM? That's cheaper than my Sicaran. And it's a character? What's the BS/WS and ranges on those guns?

What am I missing? That's a lot of neat abilities, but it also looks pretty comparable to a Leman Russ defensively before you factor in invulns. (Where is that 4++ coming from?) And a lot of those tricks seem to be short-ranged meaning you probably get at least one or two turns to kill it before it can bring everything to bear.

Well, it's a LOT for 190 PPM. But if it can't get that 4++ it will die fairly easily.

Hey Daed! Where's the 4++ coming from? The Badmoons warlord trait? Can a Beastsnagga unit have that?


From a relic, BUT the app doesn't indicate he can't take it where the book might.

The usual WS3 BS5. Ranges are 12/24/48.

Thanks Daed. So not that impressive if it can't get that 4++. BUT, it's still a lot for 190 PPM when compared to similar units. That's the same price as a Leman Russ with heavy bolter sponsons, but with a 6++, and 4 more wounds. Doesn't mean it's undercosted, but it could mean some of those similar units are overcosted. Especially compared to similar units that cost more points and CP. But that doesn't make it broken.

The only thing impressive about the White Squig dude is that he can get back up on a 4+. My clawlord averages more damage, and 10 Warp Talons with Prey On the Weak can shred him. So no "broken" there either.


Or, one could note that the kill rig deals very little damage at any kind of range, moves 10" without fly and a gigantic base, and in melee honestly doesn't do all that much damage - about 7 unsaved wounds on average vs a T7 3+ target.


Yup, and now that we know that it can't get that 4++ we know it'll get wiped off the board by multi-meltas just like almost every other vehicle in the game. Again, nothing "OP Broken" here.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:
Spoiler:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Wyldhunt wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
And...the Kill Rig is probably the bigger problem...


Haven't seen that one yet. Wanna share Daed? What's so problematic about it?


T8 W16 3+/6++

Melee - 6 S8 AP2 D2, 4 S5 AP1, 4 S7 AP2 D3

+1 to hit Monster/Vehicle

Shooting -
1 S8 AP2 D3 - reroll hits vs V/M - if a V/M suffers wounds on a 4+ they can't move outside of 12" from this model
D3 S9 AP3 D6 - autohit
D6 DS6 AP1 D2 - ooLOS ( has TFC stratagems )

Ramshackle
Transport 10 / Open Topped
Reroll charges

Cast 2 powers / deny 1

Frazzle - WC6 - each enemy unit in 9" takes D3 MW on 4+

This is also a character able to take a trait and a relic, so if there aren't restrictions it will have a 4++.

190 points


All of THAT is 190 PPM? That's cheaper than my Sicaran. And it's a character? What's the BS/WS and ranges on those guns?

What am I missing? That's a lot of neat abilities, but it also looks pretty comparable to a Leman Russ defensively before you factor in invulns. (Where is that 4++ coming from?) And a lot of those tricks seem to be short-ranged meaning you probably get at least one or two turns to kill it before it can bring everything to bear.

Well, it's a LOT for 190 PPM. But if it can't get that 4++ it will die fairly easily.

Hey Daed! Where's the 4++ coming from? The Badmoons warlord trait? Can a Beastsnagga unit have that?


From a relic, BUT the app doesn't indicate he can't take it where the book might.

The usual WS3 BS5. Ranges are 12/24/48.

Thanks Daed. So not that impressive if it can't get that 4++. BUT, it's still a lot for 190 PPM when compared to similar units. That's the same price as a Leman Russ with heavy bolter sponsons, but with a 6++, and 4 more wounds. Doesn't mean it's undercosted, but it could mean some of those similar units are overcosted. Especially compared to similar units that cost more points and CP. But that doesn't make it broken.

The only thing impressive about the White Squig dude is that he can get back up on a 4+. My clawlord averages more damage, and 10 Warp Talons with Prey On the Weak can shred him. So no "broken" there either.


Or, one could note that the kill rig deals very little damage at any kind of range, moves 10" without fly and a gigantic base, and in melee honestly doesn't do all that much damage - about 7 unsaved wounds on average vs a T7 3+ target.


Yup, and now that we know that it can't get that 4++ we know it'll get wiped off the board by multi-meltas just like almost every other vehicle in the game. Again, nothing "OP Broken" here.


*technically* thats from a warlord trait and we dont know it cant get that. But yeah. It'll just not get to do that, obviously. XD

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 the_scotsman wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:
Spoiler:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Wyldhunt wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
And...the Kill Rig is probably the bigger problem...


Haven't seen that one yet. Wanna share Daed? What's so problematic about it?


T8 W16 3+/6++

Melee - 6 S8 AP2 D2, 4 S5 AP1, 4 S7 AP2 D3

+1 to hit Monster/Vehicle

Shooting -
1 S8 AP2 D3 - reroll hits vs V/M - if a V/M suffers wounds on a 4+ they can't move outside of 12" from this model
D3 S9 AP3 D6 - autohit
D6 DS6 AP1 D2 - ooLOS ( has TFC stratagems )

Ramshackle
Transport 10 / Open Topped
Reroll charges

Cast 2 powers / deny 1

Frazzle - WC6 - each enemy unit in 9" takes D3 MW on 4+

This is also a character able to take a trait and a relic, so if there aren't restrictions it will have a 4++.

190 points


All of THAT is 190 PPM? That's cheaper than my Sicaran. And it's a character? What's the BS/WS and ranges on those guns?

What am I missing? That's a lot of neat abilities, but it also looks pretty comparable to a Leman Russ defensively before you factor in invulns. (Where is that 4++ coming from?) And a lot of those tricks seem to be short-ranged meaning you probably get at least one or two turns to kill it before it can bring everything to bear.

Well, it's a LOT for 190 PPM. But if it can't get that 4++ it will die fairly easily.

Hey Daed! Where's the 4++ coming from? The Badmoons warlord trait? Can a Beastsnagga unit have that?


From a relic, BUT the app doesn't indicate he can't take it where the book might.

The usual WS3 BS5. Ranges are 12/24/48.

Thanks Daed. So not that impressive if it can't get that 4++. BUT, it's still a lot for 190 PPM when compared to similar units. That's the same price as a Leman Russ with heavy bolter sponsons, but with a 6++, and 4 more wounds. Doesn't mean it's undercosted, but it could mean some of those similar units are overcosted. Especially compared to similar units that cost more points and CP. But that doesn't make it broken.

The only thing impressive about the White Squig dude is that he can get back up on a 4+. My clawlord averages more damage, and 10 Warp Talons with Prey On the Weak can shred him. So no "broken" there either.


Or, one could note that the kill rig deals very little damage at any kind of range, moves 10" without fly and a gigantic base, and in melee honestly doesn't do all that much damage - about 7 unsaved wounds on average vs a T7 3+ target.


Yup, and now that we know that it can't get that 4++ we know it'll get wiped off the board by multi-meltas just like almost every other vehicle in the game. Again, nothing "OP Broken" here.


*technically* thats from a warlord trait and we dont know it cant get that. But yeah. It'll just not get to do that, obviously. XD

*checks Jidmah's post* Ah crap. He just said relics.
   
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Savannah

The kill rig is locked to a specific warlord trait that only buffs squig units (6" aura of +1D to their bite, only). Despite the rather large squig at the front, it is not, itself, a squig unit. So don't worry about that. It doesn't even benefit from it's own warlord trait if you give it one.
   
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Gadzilla666 wrote:
*checks Jidmah's post* Ah crap. He just said relics.


Yeah, most people were afraid of the 4++ or super-cybork relics on it. The leaks that came out earlier today also confirmed that it can't take any of the warlord traits that make it broken.

So GW actually did a decent job on this and it's now just a cute transport for beast snagga boyz with decent shooting and some mediocre psychic powers. Not a steal, but fair enough at 190 if you really want a model looking like that.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Jidmah wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
*checks Jidmah's post* Ah crap. He just said relics.


Yeah, most people were afraid of the 4++ or super-cybork relics on it. The leaks that came out earlier today also confirmed that it can't take any of the warlord traits that make it broken.

So GW actually did a decent job on this and it's now just a cute transport for beast snagga boyz with decent shooting and some mediocre psychic powers. Not a steal, but fair enough at 190 if you really want a model looking like that.



Ya know, I'm thinking a "take unit X that every know knows is 'just alright' and cherry pick facts to prove it's OP" thread could be hilarious.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






I think Xenomancer would totally win that game

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Cj4594 wrote:
Has anyone noticed that every time a codex drops, it's broken ASF. I'm looking at the new Ork crap, and they got a character that does flat 4 mortal wounds on 6s to wound. Everything feels over the top these days.

It feels like they're making broken stuff to sell models, then fixing them once the hype is gone.


Necrons, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Deathwatch were all pretty meh with necrons degrading heavily over time. Deathguard and Dark Angels are both GOOD but were never anywhere near broken like people thought they would be. The Sisters Dex is good also but is AT BEST a sidegrade to the previous one.

The majority of all book releases are mediocre, the majority of all model releases are pretty gak, ruleswise. People think new releases are always "OP" because they themselves are stupid mouthbreathing blowhards who have had the part of their brain capable of pattern recognition replaced with whining.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sim-Life wrote:
I'll reserve judgement on the "every release is broken" till we see the Nids book. Almost every Nid release since 5th has been mid-low tier at release.


You don't need to do that, we've had 10 Codex releases in 9th, 2 of them have been OP, 3 of them have been appropriate to the power curve, and 5 of them have been just slightly below curve or worse.

If you want to talk new release models, let's talk the latest wave: Celestian Sacresants and Morvenn Vahl are both very good but are excluded from lists almost as often as they're included. Paragon warsuits are as mediocre as mediocre gets. The Dogmata is a niche unit that only fills a couple of specific roles. The Castigator and the Crusade Banner are so ungodly terrible that they still haven't been released yet and no one cares. 2 Good, 1 Okay, 1 Meh, 2 TERRIBLE.

It is 100% verifiably not true that 'every release is broken'.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/21 12:29:52


 
   
 
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