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Made in us
Cowboy Wannabe




Sacramento

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The prices seem ridiculously high to me. Reaper sells Bones versions of these monsters for a fraction of the cost. Heroes are easy to find cheaper from Bones, Nolzur’s or by the bunch via plastic Frostgrave boxes. The days of paying $15 for a generic, bland hero mini are long gone.


And yet another well known company gets $35 for their Lieutenant figures, which usually have fewer options as well.

$15 for a figure that you can more easily kit bash, and comes with some choices is not that bad.

   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

 lasgunpacker wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The prices seem ridiculously high to me. Reaper sells Bones versions of these monsters for a fraction of the cost. Heroes are easy to find cheaper from Bones, Nolzur’s or by the bunch via plastic Frostgrave boxes. The days of paying $15 for a generic, bland hero mini are long gone.


And yet another well known company gets $35 for their Lieutenant figures, which usually have fewer options as well.

$15 for a figure that you can more easily kit bash, and comes with some choices is not that bad.


GW is pretty much it’s own ecosystem. Those prices only make sense for customers who want GW minis for GW games. Once outside of GW, there’s nothing to keep customers from seeking better value from money. In this case, there are direct competitors with the DND minis, official and unofficial. Lots of GW customers only know of GW while any customers for this product line will be aware of Nolzur’s and other similar items since they will all be sold in the same places.

$15 seems pretty high for a single figure that will sit on the same shelf as the 2-for-$5 Nolzur’s minis or $3-$4 Bones heroes.

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





StarFyre wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
most will be $10 at discount sellers. Not too bad for a PC model but not enough for me to want to buy for anything else unless I really like the sculpt.

Interesting to see the Balrog isn't in the first wave.


It may be missing it that list but it is on pre-order at mini market. $80 for balor. If it's scaled as the current nolzurs preprimed balor, to me that seems a lot since that would be half the height of the gw bloodthirster set with much smaller wings...

If can get it for less. Maybe 60 I hope?

And someone mentioned these aren't for beginners. The original press release in Feb that these were coming said it's for advanced modellers/painters.


Oh, wow. Geese that's horrible. No way I'd get that. If it's a huge on like a 100mm base then I'd consider it from at discount seller at the possibly $60 price.

BobtheInquisitor wrote:The prices seem ridiculously high to me. Reaper sells Bones versions of these monsters for a fraction of the cost. Heroes are easy to find cheaper from Bones, Nolzur’s or by the bunch via plastic Frostgrave boxes. The days of paying $15 for a generic, bland hero mini are long gone.


I think the prices are all on purpose to be a bit, and maybe this is too strong of a word, predatory by going after people newer to this side of the hobby that really don't know what prices are for other lines. A lot of places that cater to the RPG crowd out where I am dropped everything that wasn't wizkids for RPG minis so there's nothing in store to compare. If there is another mini line it's GW stuff.

So if you're liking mini painting, going to the local store for RPG night (there are a few stores by me that pretty much only cater to D&D and MTG and they're slammed packed of people all the time) and see a cool kit. You may want to buy it to get more into the hobby and since a lot of the stores don't carry a competing line to compare the prices you just look at the fancy assemble yourself or the normal one and not really think about how outrageous the price is. Especially if you look over at the GW equivalent in store and see it's even more.

Granted the prices need to be a bit higher as they're going to sell less of the kits vs prebuilts but not enough to justify such a swing in cost. the human figures are 3x the cost for a single one in their other lines.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/08/05 22:29:24


 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

StarFyre wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
most will be $10 at discount sellers. Not too bad for a PC model but not enough for me to want to buy for anything else unless I really like the sculpt.

Interesting to see the Balrog isn't in the first wave.


It may be missing it that list but it is on pre-order at mini market. $80 for balor. If it's scaled as the current nolzurs preprimed balor, to me that seems a lot since that would be half the height of the gw bloodthirster set with much smaller wings...

If can get it for less. Maybe 60 I hope?

And someone mentioned these aren't for beginners. The original press release in Feb that these were coming said it's for advanced modellers/painters.

Regards

Sf

https://www.miniaturemarket.com/wzk75070.html

Pre-order price is actually $89.99, with an MSRP of $99.99.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Miniature market's prices are meh a lot of times. So you should be able to find it at $79.99 pretty easily which is still sounding pretty crazy. Want to wait to see the scale though as that's a big factor.

Also doing a quick search, to see if anyone else had these, it looks to be wizkids is doing a price hike for a lot of their older, larger, minis from the unpainted lines (doubling the price from the looks of it). Which also includes increasing the packaging size which is odd as I never thought "boy, these minis are great but if only they had more waste associated with them".

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/05 22:48:29


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Going after the GW price immune consumer
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





If you've ever looked into the D&D boutique stores because of the current trendiness of the game there's some pretty dang crazy expensive stuff. Some even from wizkids like these props:

https://shop.wizkids.com/collections/trophies-1/products/d-d-hand-eye-of-vecna

Spoiler:


Which are actually more reasonably priced then these kits at $130 for what is basically an over priced Halloween decoration (which they themselves are overpriced). That's something that would sell at target for like $50 or spirit of halloween for $60.

Or giant dragon heads (which are pretty cool) which seam to be originally sold for around $400

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/08/05 23:27:55


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

Dread Master wrote:
Going after the GW price immune consumer


Who won’t buy it because it’s not GW

Thread Slayer 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






100$ bucks for that daemon is ridiculous, unless he's huge

lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




 Monkeysloth wrote:


Also doing a quick search, to see if anyone else had these, it looks to be wizkids is doing a price hike for a lot of their older, larger, minis from the unpainted lines (doubling the price from the looks of it). Which also includes increasing the packaging size which is odd as I never thought "boy, these minis are great but if only they had more waste associated with them".


That packaging comment wins the internet for the day...

Sf
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






These figures are primarily for RPG's, not wargaming. The idea is that, at least for PC's, you can customize your figure. IIRC, HeroForge charged $40 for a custom individual figure, so $15 may be reasonable. As far as I can tell from the previews, though, is that there's only one body, yet two of each option. While it's common for there to be half as many bodies as other bits on the sprue, all WK needed to do is put on another body, and *bam* you cut the cost per figure in half -- one figure goes to the player for their custom figure, the remaining parts the GM uses for an NPC or something.

And, of course, RPG players don't need as many miniatures to play as a wargamer would. They're going to spend $15 on one miniature, not $50 on a warband, or $100 on an army.

Closest direct competitor would be Northstar Game's Frostgrave generic fantasy miniatures on sprues, but their business model is to sell you a warband of plastic minions (and metal miniatures for personalities and monsters). An RPG'er *might* pass on a Northstar Frostgrave box because he doesn't need 20 figures for each class for $25+.

But, for monsters, GMs would want the cheapest miniatures possible -- especially since he's the one usually buying them. That's a key part of the business model of Reaper Bones. A GM is not going to pay $30 for a metal hill giant, but will pay $6 for a plastic one.

Well, we'll see. The $300 gorilla in the room is the 3D printer. Still not at an inexpensive price for miniature resolution, but we'll see in a few years...

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2021/08/dd-wizkids-announces-frameworks-custom-sprue-based-miniatures-for-your-campaign.html

Crimson Scales and Wildspire Miniatures thread on Reaper! : https://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/103935-wildspire-miniatures-thread/ 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





Also, some people may not understand roleplayers here, I'm not talking the guy who sits around a table with a beer I'm talking the real hard core roleplayers, some of em get pretty attached to their characters. I know people who have paid good money to get art comissioned for their characters (it's partiuclarly common in MMO RPG circles but you also see it in table top)
So I can readily belive people'll pay good money for a customizable mini they can use as a character marker.


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





I don't think the price is that bad for the PCs just for that reason but these really aren't that customizable (most have 2 heads and 2 weapons), and you can't really kitbash easily with them without skill. Nor can you easily change things out as your character progresses. The dwarf in the image below is probably the one with the most options we've seen.

Also Heroforge is only like $20 for unpainted so $5 more which is a better comparison. They're $45 for colored prints.

The more I see of the monsters and the lack of real options the more I'm wondering who they're targeting with those.


The hag doesn't look like there's really any alternate builds outside of one hand, mostly just extra stuff to put where you want on the base. She's $25 as well. Who wants that?



The $50 Orc set shows how they're doing multiple model kits and there are 5 models and each one has two build options and it doesn't look like a chunk of the parts can be used on the other orcs (though I would like to see larger images to confirm that). again that's $10 an orc that you may fight once.

This message was edited 14 times. Last update was at 2021/08/06 07:41:06


 
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

I think part of their plan is the quality or whimsy of the bits. You mentioned the Kobold and yeah, I don't need a $15 Kobold. But then I saw the boot helmet and said Awwwww.

The Warlock/Pilgrim Hat dude's flaming sword and shoulder demon move him into the solid buy category, even if I don't have a use for him or the dozen extra parts I'll have left over.



I agree the monsters are a bit odd, a lot of cost and work just to have an Orc with a sword vs and Orc with a club.

 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





The Kobold is actually a set like the orcs so I removed that statement as we don't really know what the full modularity of those kits will be. Still, $10 kolbold.

There are some cool builds for the PCs. I think it would have cost them very little and been much easier to justify the cost if there were a peg system for swapping hands and weapons. The material is light weight enough that they should hold with non-round ones I would wager. And maybe I'm being a bit more critical because it seams like something that they should have done but didn't as what RPG player wouldn't love an easy way to do that? With heroforge only $5 more this would have been a great way to offer something they don't.


The dwarf is a great example as she has the stein and that player could swap to a shield or tomb when dungeon crawling and keep the stein for other instances. There are heads with expressions too but I'm not sure they'd stay on without glue, unlike the fighter next to her that has pegs. Though Bluetac might work for the dwarf heads.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/06 08:07:09


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

BrianDavion wrote:
Also, some people may not understand roleplayers here, I'm not talking the guy who sits around a table with a beer I'm talking the real hard core roleplayers, some of em get pretty attached to their characters. I know people who have paid good money to get art comissioned for their characters (it's partiuclarly common in MMO RPG circles but you also see it in table top)
So I can readily belive people'll pay good money for a customizable mini they can use as a character marker.


...but these minis aren't remotely customizable enough for these purposes.

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Also, some people may not understand roleplayers here, I'm not talking the guy who sits around a table with a beer I'm talking the real hard core roleplayers, some of em get pretty attached to their characters. I know people who have paid good money to get art comissioned for their characters (it's partiuclarly common in MMO RPG circles but you also see it in table top)
So I can readily belive people'll pay good money for a customizable mini they can use as a character marker.


...but these minis aren't remotely customizable enough for these purposes.


we'll have to see I suppose. I see a lot of people buying mini's for d&d..... hell I see them buying AOS minis for it!

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in tw
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 lasgunpacker wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The prices seem ridiculously high to me. Reaper sells Bones versions of these monsters for a fraction of the cost. Heroes are easy to find cheaper from Bones, Nolzur’s or by the bunch via plastic Frostgrave boxes. The days of paying $15 for a generic, bland hero mini are long gone.


And yet another well known company gets $35 for their Lieutenant figures, which usually have fewer options as well.

$15 for a figure that you can more easily kit bash, and comes with some choices is not that bad.


GW is pretty much it’s own ecosystem. Those prices only make sense for customers who want GW minis for GW games. Once outside of GW, there’s nothing to keep customers from seeking better value from money. In this case, there are direct competitors with the DND minis, official and unofficial. Lots of GW customers only know of GW while any customers for this product line will be aware of Nolzur’s and other similar items since they will all be sold in the same places.

$15 seems pretty high for a single figure that will sit on the same shelf as the 2-for-$5 Nolzur’s minis or $3-$4 Bones heroes.


except you cant customize those - not easily, and I've tried.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:

we'll have to see I suppose. I see a lot of people buying mini's for d&d..... hell I see them buying AOS minis for it!


Guilty! (well, not DnD, but for simplicity's sake, yes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

...but these minis aren't remotely customizable enough for these purposes.


Ah, but you're not factoring in the material.

In theory these are going to be made out of the same plastic that warhammer minis are - ABS, or a similar plastic. Which means that unlike the rubbery plastic that most DnD minis are made in which sevearly handicaps kitbashers, these minis can better take advantage of bits from each others kits, and even prey upon well established warhammer bitz boxes.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/06 10:22:49


   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 privateer4hire wrote:
Dread Master wrote:
Going after the GW price immune consumer


Who won’t buy it because it’s not GW

GW Consumers and WotC Consumers have a lot in common. Both exclusively buy GW/D&D products, refuse or are hesitant to consider other games, will scoff at materials from other companies but gladly pay 250% markup for something official and could be beaten to a bloody pulp by their respective company's henchmen and still justify forking over hundreds of dollars to them every month.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/06 13:24:25


 
   
Made in tw
Longtime Dakkanaut





I mean to be fair at least part of it has to be visual style - a lot of DnD (and pathfinder for that matter - though not nearly as much) are pretty garish in their colors and tend toward the world of warcraft in design.

Now those are turn offs for me, and I assume most people who buy warhammer- but if that's the design ethos that has your fancy i can see why you would want to keep buying product to keep design themes consistent.

I think part of the is what keeps warhammer fans buying warhammer, as they tend not to pair too nicely with other ranges in size or design. (IMO)

   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Carlovonsexron wrote:
I mean to be fair at least part of it has to be visual style - a lot of DnD (and pathfinder for that matter - though not nearly as much) are pretty garish in their colors and tend toward the world of warcraft in design.


That's more since 4e and 5e d&d. 3e a bit but it had its own style by a set of artists which used the same characters through the books. Like an in between from the old and new styles.

2e wasn't like that for most part although each setting had its own style with planescape having the most unique flair due to the artist who led the entire art style. (Tony diterlizzi? Can't spell it but it's the spiderwick chronicles guy) Dark Sun also had a much harsher muted pallette and even had more use or bones, skulls etc (metal is rare there so using bones and wood as weapons is common)

Sf

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/06 15:37:28


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Carlovonsexron wrote:


Ah, but you're not factoring in the material.

In theory these are going to be made out of the same plastic that warhammer minis are - ABS, or a similar plastic. Which means that unlike the rubbery plastic that most DnD minis are made in which sevearly handicaps kitbashers, these minis can better take advantage of bits from each others kits, and even prey upon well established warhammer bitz boxes.


Where are you getting that info as none of the articles linked state what type of plastic. And, shockingly, PVC plastic uses sprues as well as metal and resin if multiplart. Since everything Wizkids have ever made in 20 years of existence is PVC its safer to assume that's what these will be made out of until it's expressly stated it's HIPS or another plastic.

for kitbashing it would make a lot more sense for them to keep this as the same material as their other minis so players can combine the two easier. Ya, PVC isn't as good as HIPS for this, but you still can (just takes more skill) and why would they lock out people buying the hundred other minis they have for sale for other parts? Doing these kits in HIPS would just push people to buy from GW and other competitors that use the material.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/06 17:50:16


 
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







These are being made for Wizkids by Archon/Prodos, in HIPS. This is known.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dammit, actually I went back to check and Archon actually said they're making HIPS sprues for WotC, not Wizkids. I have no clue if those are out already or what Wizkids is then. Sorry for the confusion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/06 18:46:34


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Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Iirc, wizkids said on their channel that it's similar to gw style plastic but fairly sure they saidnot quite as rigid... whatever that means regarding material differences.

Sf
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Well I'll guess we'll have to wait a bit to see. I didn't realize WoTC was making anything minis related outside of their boardgames. Kind defeats the purpose of the Wizkids license if they are.

Assuming Archon misspoke If these do well, with the margins they're likely to see of these kits, I wonder if Hasbro will just buy Topps and thus wizkids? If these fail then no risk to Hasbro at all. Topps is mostly just an IP company these days and Hasbro loves owning all the IPs and no way they're going to let Topps get GW money from their IP.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/06 19:54:28


 
   
Made in us
Combat Jumping Ragik






Beyond the Beltway

WotC left the miniature business some years ago, and licensed everything out to WizKids or Gale Force 9. Even the minis in the boardgames are outsourced.

There is another option instead of HIPS. It is called Siocast, which is a new thing from a Spanish company. Corvus Belli is switching to it for their larger minis. It requires the sprues etc. It looks similar to HIPS but is more flexible. It appears to hold detail well, so it may be a much better choice for 25mm-30mm miniatures than is PVC.

Honestly, if these minis are in PVC, I have no interest in them. Otherwise, I may get some of the monsters.

 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ugg, the GF9 resins are trash. So annoyed at that. I was looking at getting one of the dragon kits and the molds/casts are so bad you have to actually break the wings to assemble and then greenstuff things back together. Tons of really bad reviews for both of the dragons they sell as none of the parts/joints fit.

Bought the wizkids unpainted stuff instead.
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Ah, but you're not factoring in the material.

In theory these are going to be made out of the same plastic that warhammer minis are - ABS, or a similar plastic. Which means that unlike the rubbery plastic that most DnD minis are made in which severely handicaps kitbashers, these minis can better take advantage of bits from each others kits, and even prey upon well established warhammer bitz boxes.

Looking at how these models are broken down, I am doubtful these are the same type of plastic that GW uses. There are just to many carries (undercuts) to use in a press-mold given the part breakdown shown. More likely they'll be the softer plastic that WK uses on their other stuff or they'll be made of the type of plastic/resin that Privateer Press uses. Those use a different mold process similar to how metal minis are made which tolerates carries and undercuts.

Still, these are a great improvement for the RPG community.


 
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne









This is what Archon flexed on their Discord recently. From the blur I'd guess it's not out yet.

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Made in gb
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





UK

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Ugg, the GF9 resins are trash. So annoyed at that. I was looking at getting one of the dragon kits and the molds/casts are so bad you have to actually break the wings to assemble and then greenstuff things back together. Tons of really bad reviews for both of the dragons they sell as none of the parts/joints fit.

Bought the wizkids unpainted stuff instead.


I've found the GF9 Collector's Series minis to be a real mixed bag. The human-sized minis are pretty fantastic, and while Orcus and Baphomet required some small filling and sanding, they mostly went together okay, nothing worse than any other large resin kit. The Dragon of Black Ice, meanwhile, is an absolute disaster of a kit at the price they asked for it. Terrible gaps requiring tons of GS to fill, at least three different types of resin (head and tail the traditional solod cast pieces, a much brittler, shiny stuff for the hollow body that warped like crazy, and the base is almoat closer to vacuum-formed plastic...)

Hopefully that's where this new line can come in; for the right centrepiece mini for a campaign, I'm not averse to throwing down £60ish if the quality is there, but with the GF9 stuff going downhill I'll take well-made mass produced stuff over the limited run but crap kits like that last dragon. Even middling plastic or PVC is going to hold detail netter than that,amd be easier to work with...

 
   
 
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