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Marines
- Centurions
- Any Primaris vehicle

Guard
- Ogryns/Bullgryns. They just don't fit the aesthetic of my army. If there was a mech-suit option then I'd definitely give them a go.
- Taurox. Just looks awful

Custodes
- Wardens. The army is already expensive, and to me Wardens are just a waste of points which could be taken on Sagittarum.

BrianDavion wrote:
agreed 9th edition seems to be a edition of "good internal balance" at least thus far. there are still some lemons sure but they are fewer and even the lemons are "not completely useless"

I also agree. But when a codex has 100+ datasheets even with a pretty solid internal balance there will likely be 30+ useless units. Units that are completely useless do exist, but thankfully in this matter we experience a significant improvement compared to older editions, when useless units had an impact: 5-10 useless units now are nothing due to the countless alternatives but in the past it could have made an army hard to play or just hard to enjoy.

Lets see,

Guard it's Deathstrike and Ogryns. Ogryns have really struggled for awhile and they need to be re worked to be useful and Deathstrikes have sucked since jump street.

I'll not comment on marines, but atm scouts are crap and probably will remain that way.

Dark Eldar I'd agree with Scourges, they need a real mix up as they feel like a unit without a point most of the time.

Tau, Vespids I call them the stink fingers and they never let me down, they tend to suck though I'd give honorable mention now to sniper drones which also seem to be the most useless snipers in the game.

I'm sure I'm missing some but thats some ideas and no I think GW is perfectly fine leaving some stuff worthless as heck.

40k has a lot of redundant units.
Factions have grown so much with so many different units that everyone is fitting to do the same thing. A lot of units get lost because either they do the same niche as something else, just worse. Or because they occupy a useless niche in between two other units.

 Blackie wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
agreed 9th edition seems to be a edition of "good internal balance" at least thus far. there are still some lemons sure but they are fewer and even the lemons are "not completely useless"

I also agree. But when a codex has 100+ datasheets even with a pretty solid internal balance there will likely be 30+ useless units. Units that are completely useless do exist, but thankfully in this matter we experience a significant improvement compared to older editions, when useless units had an impact: 5-10 useless units now are nothing due to the countless alternatives but in the past it could have made an army hard to play or just hard to enjoy.

That does depend on the faction. If yours has 32 datasheets , then having 10 that are bad is a big thing. And for some factions , like harlequins or knights even having 5 is a problem. I am not sure if Custodes can have 10 bad unit options, without using FW units a lot.

Karol wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
agreed 9th edition seems to be a edition of "good internal balance" at least thus far. there are still some lemons sure but they are fewer and even the lemons are "not completely useless"

I also agree. But when a codex has 100+ datasheets even with a pretty solid internal balance there will likely be 30+ useless units. Units that are completely useless do exist, but thankfully in this matter we experience a significant improvement compared to older editions, when useless units had an impact: 5-10 useless units now are nothing due to the countless alternatives but in the past it could have made an army hard to play or just hard to enjoy.

That does depend on the faction. If yours has 32 datasheets , then having 10 that are bad is a big thing. And for some factions , like harlequins or knights even having 5 is a problem. I am not sure if Custodes can have 10 bad unit options, without using FW units a lot.

yes but in this case he's clearly toalking proportionatly. if a army like space marines ahd the odd unit thats "not that great" it's not a crisis. but yes if custodes has a bad unit that is a problem given how few units they have

Maybe it is my english, because I don't see it. Unimportant anyway. For armies with large number of datasheets the claim is true, that a playable army can be build for them

I have not played a lot with the new codex yet, but I'm very sure that my big meks with KFF will be gathering dust till 10th edition when they will be squatted

Oh, and the mini mek is as useless as ever.

mrFickle wrote:
Interested to understand why you would never take them and if it’s because they are useless to build a good list can you answer the following question:

Does GW try to make every unit in the codex usable, even if that requires different styles of play, or are some unit just filler?

IG:-

HQ - you need your order giving units here
Lord Commissar - in practice does nothing with the changes to morale. Doesn't give orders. Fluff unit only or if you have some kind of weird non regiment build.

Troops
Conscripts - currently a massive climb down in ability over regular guardsmen, for virtually the same points. Can't even be ordered well.

Elites a crowded slot.
Commissar - in practice does nothing with the changes to morale. Fluff unit only.
Ogryns - currently overcosted and vulnerable, fluff only.
Servitors - an expensive and vulnerable way to take heavy weapons - fluff only.
Wyrdvane Psykers - in no situation are you not better off with an astropath or primaris, especially as these guys are a squad and can shot off the table in seconds.
Sly Marbo - sadly fairly naff compared to a proper assassin.
Commissar Severina Raine - See other commissars.

Heavy Support
Deathstrike - fluff only. But what awesome fluff! Deep in my heart i love them.
Heavy Weapons Squad - sadly a highly vulnerable way of losing lots of points. Allow your heavy weapons to be shot off the table.
Hydras - not actually any good at killing aircraft.

in fairness the comissar was nerfed to hell because it was insanely OP back in the day. partly thanks to the morale changes making the comissars original role being a bit..... off

Tyranids - Spore Mines.
10 points a pop for what other units LITERALLY gak out for free.

For my AdMech:

Cawl - I have the model, but his rules suck at the moment
The Transport version of the plane - again the rules suck.
Kastellans - I wish they were better but, you can get many other units that do the same job cheaper.
Sulphurhounds. we have so many other units (looking at you skitarii/sicarians/HeavyStubberTanks) that can deal with light infantry, there is no need for them especially in how crowded the FA slot is.
not technically in the codex, but the secutarii peltasts/hoplites & drill. they seem to almost have been abandoned by GW at this point.

from a modelling perspective - I have 5 pteraxii, and will never get any more - I hate those flying stands - they also take up so much space in transit, I will probably still use them as I have the models and they are fully painted, but if I end up needing to cut 1 unit from my list it will be these.

if/when the knights get a better codex I might take a knight in my lists I really want to, but AdMech do the same job better, but at the moment I will leave them out for now.

The only finecast models I will ever field are the ones I already have- I will never buy another finecast model again.

In my CSM army, I prefer things with a Slaanesh/ Tzeentch look over the Khorne and Nurgle stuff, and I won't field possessed because I don't like the models (though greater possessed are awesome).

The Castigator is a joke, the exorcist is 40pts too expensive and costs 2 CP to shoot, the immolator can't even die right anymore.

pretty much just model based for me. Don't have any weird lore hangups because I know that the lore of 40k gets retconned on an annual basis out of necessity--that's what happens when you don't advance plots.

SM Models I wouldn't field: Stormraven, any non-primaris bike, centurions, scouts, stormtalon, predator, and any unconverted indomitus pattern terminators. All models that are just ugly to me.

Really none of my other armies have any units I wouldn't ever use--necrons, admech, deathwatch, death guard (ok well I guess the defiler is horrible).

For my custodes:

-venerable land raider: too expensive for what it does and the aesthetic does not fit the golden boys imo.

-wardens: I love the models, but there are too many units in the codex that do the same thing but better. Hopefully they get a buff in the new Codex.

-plastic venerable dreadnought: such an ugly model. If you've ever built and painted a FW custodes dreadnought, you'll never go back....they are so much better both rules and model wise.

Harlequins:

-voidweaver: I'm not a very good harlequins player, but the void weaver just doesn't seem that good for a heavy support.

For my big three

Orks
-I don't plan on picking up Ghaz at any point though since I never play Goffs and was never too interested in his story before he became a bigger character in the lore.

Eldar
-Jet Bike troops. Never had an interest in them. I do like the concept of Shining Spears though.

Space Wolves
-I don't play any of the wolf-wolfy-mcwolf stuff. Can't stand the flanderization.

mrFickle wrote:
Interested to understand why you would never take them and if it’s because they are useless to build a good list can you answer the following question:

Does GW try to make every unit in the codex usable, even if that requires different styles of play, or are some unit just filler?

I have been testing out Deathmarks and they're the least fun unit in the Necron codex, I have been playing 3 times with every unit in the codex, just missing Deathmarks and Szeras and I really don't want to play the third game with Deathmarks. They are bad at assassinating characters. Assassinating characters isn't that important. They aren't particularly good at killing other units.

They are pretty tough, they have deep strike and BS 2+. But I haven't had a moment where I felt "Yeah! This is why these guys are in the list" and I doubt that moment will come in the third game and I can't wait to never take them again. If they could see through walls as I suggested when I asked for them to become a proper long-ranged sniper unit then I think they would be useful and cool to use, but they are just so meh right now. They are also slightly overpriced.

Oh I forgot about Centurions. I'll never take them. Same with the Ironclad Dreadnought, ugly model.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Repulsor/Repulsor Executioner

Flying eyesores.

No no no. Dumbo could fly.

Oh! Eyesore. I though you said Eeyore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though on pleasing aesthetics, Necrons are again blessed with nothing looking awful (to my eyes, your eyes may differ)

Oh yeah. Centurions. Because I have standards.

 vict0988 wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
Interested to understand why you would never take them and if it’s because they are useless to build a good list can you answer the following question:

Does GW try to make every unit in the codex usable, even if that requires different styles of play, or are some unit just filler?

I have been testing out Deathmarks and they're the least fun unit in the Necron codex, I have been playing 3 times with every unit in the codex, just missing Deathmarks and Szeras and I really don't want to play the third game with Deathmarks. They are bad at assassinating characters. Assassinating characters isn't that important. They aren't particularly good at killing other units.

Huh. They're one of the MVPs in my own Crusade force.
Of course mine are Mephrit (+3" range, +1 AP at 1/2 range) & get to use the Talent for Anhilation strat.
So my 5 man squad hits you on 2s @ 39", ignoring Look Out Sir, dealing a max of +8MW (depending upon how many 6s To Wound are rolled) + regular damage at AP.-2 (AP.-3 @ 19.5" or less - wich is quite often).
They have no problem being positioned as needed thanks to their DS ability
They're tough & reanimate.

These guys chew through things for me. I don't have problems getting rid of characters. They particularly like murdering SoB characters.
And once they start wracking up Crusade xp & Honors....

These guys have earned their paint in my force.

ccs wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
Interested to understand why you would never take them and if it’s because they are useless to build a good list can you answer the following question:

Does GW try to make every unit in the codex usable, even if that requires different styles of play, or are some unit just filler?

I have been testing out Deathmarks and they're the least fun unit in the Necron codex, I have been playing 3 times with every unit in the codex, just missing Deathmarks and Szeras and I really don't want to play the third game with Deathmarks. They are bad at assassinating characters. Assassinating characters isn't that important. They aren't particularly good at killing other units.

Huh. They're one of the MVPs in my own Crusade force.
Of course mine are Mephrit (+3" range, +1 AP at 1/2 range) & get to use the Talent for Anhilation strat.
So my 5 man squad hits you on 2s @ 39", ignoring Look Out Sir, dealing a max of +8MW (depending upon how many 6s To Wound are rolled) + regular damage at AP.-2 (AP.-3 @ 19.5" or less - wich is quite often).
They have no problem being positioned as needed thanks to their DS ability
They're tough & reanimate.

These guys chew through things for me. I don't have problems getting rid of characters. They particularly like murdering SoB characters.
And once they start wracking up Crusade xp & Honors....

These guys have earned their paint in my force.

Max doesn't matter. You're talking an average of 1.4 MWs out of these guys if they didn't move (or if they did and got MWBD.) I've found most targets I want to throw them at have invulns so that AP gets wasted. I'm with the other guy. I was excited for Deathmarks but they're pretty disappointing whenever I run them. I think they should do d3 damage instead of 1 (or see through walls; though that's super cool but doesn't help up their paltry output.)

{shrugs} Nothing much any of us can do about Invuln saves. Either the target will make them or they won't.
But they certainly won't fail them if I don't shoot/stab them 1st....

D3 damage eh? So you want to A) pay for that, B) then complain that it's too swingy.
Seeing through walls? While that'd be pretty cool, I definitely don't want to pay for that. Especially since with their DS ability I rarely have poor LoS.

With my orks I have to say that I am very fortunate to have used every singe models I owned several times. I do need to acquire the new buggies and the new beastsnagga models to add to my collection and believe I will be able to use them all without much problem. (they are supposed to be new hot things at the moment).

With my Eldars, my army list was themed on a Aspect Warrior only list (which means no vehicles and no wraiths). I made an exception for a Farseer, Warlocks, an Autarch and a single solitary Wraithlord.

I do have a small Militarum Tempestus that I built in 7th so technically it uses all the models of that type of army, but I don't own anything regular guards have. If they release plastic Krieg soldier beyond that one squad in Kill Team, I'll expand.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Oh I forgot about Centurions. I'll never take them. Same with the Ironclad Dreadnought, ugly model.

This is why I love 40k. There's something for everyone

I for example as a complete outsider non-SM player much prefer the Iron clad to most other patterns as a model.
Looks bad ass!

Id run me a couple of those for sure!

Land Speeders are something I'd like to take but can never justify it. Same with assault marines, I just play mine as Vanguard vets with chainswords and bolt pistols, makes no sense not to. Regular termies also always seem to lose out to my thunder hammer assault ones, unit of 8 of those is like a rock, never had an opponent able to wipe the unit since I started playing again in 8th.

Space Marines - no stuntys or associated stunty units. No reason other than they’re ugly

Tyranids - Toxicrene. Basically a giant pain in the arse model that grabs units, terrain, everything.

Death Guard - Predators. There’s just better, themed units

Custodes - Land Raider. It is just too expensive

Imperial Guard - Deathstrike. Pointless unit

Drukhari - Venom - Outclassed by Raiders and far too expensive.

Craft worlds - Almost all aspect warriors - useless and expensive.

Drone Squadrons that are purely shield drones.

Centurions are awesome. Screw all'a y'all!

And despite my undying love of all things 'Dreadnought', I, weirdly, don't own any Ironclads.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Though on pleasing aesthetics, Necrons are again blessed with nothing looking awful (to my eyes, your eyes may differ)

Is that so? Derpy stupid things, hanging their limply, and completely redundant to boot!