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Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

SemperMortis wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Lootas just got worse pt for pt than last edition but went up a grade.... Can you explain that?


Loots were obviously better given the totality of last codex (loota bomb) but imo they ate in a generally better spot if you just throw a unit down on the table and try to use them.

Freebootas is competitive now, which gets them up to approximately the damage they'd be doing with old Showin Off while spending 0cp. They're worse than other options in the dex but they're more useful than they were a couple months ago.


right...but you could do the same thing with the 8th edition codex by putting them in a freeboota list, only difference was they had to be within 24' of the unit that killed something. Not exactly hard to do honestly. So again, they just got worse, but went up a grade. It doesn't make sense.


The unsupported unit (no CPs invested and no auxiliary unit except a transport) is so much better now, that's why they gained a grade.

They were completely unplayable without investing tons of stuff on them, now they are at least decent even on their own.


 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






 Emicrania wrote:

BA shouldn't be red because is better than before, by the possibility to fall back and shoot/charge and incredible reserve manipulation, by strat and WT. Finally their relic is the only way to gain CP for Orks and can be taken by a any character.

Which leads to Mek being somehow a tiny better than before, since he can have the Finkin Cap and just farm CP together for with a mek gunz that can be repaired every turn. Possibly.


Just ignore the rating if you know the units allready. It's aimed for new players that are yet to figure stuff out themselves. And more obvious buffs like +1 to hit or a re-roll are better for them.
   
Made in cz
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Prague

Advance and charge and long range charge generaly:

My shooting buggy list likes enemy pined down in his deploy. I don' t like some CC dreadnoughts walking in my half of the table. I like to keep them home to give me space to care about my beloved objectives in the midfield.

To do this, stick something hard in opponents face is necessary.

However, we lost all abilities giving us advance and charge on Vehicles. This is pretty game-changing because to alphacharge, you need min.24” “guaranteed” and Advance was the few inches that pushed the BW to 27”. Without advance the standard one turn thread distance is for Battlewagon or Killrig or similar is M12” + Ramming speed 10,5”+ EreWeGo 1” = 23,5” or something.

This is not enough. How to pimp it up?

Options:

1. Take a Ghazzy and call the Great Waaaagh. This works however just for core and character units => Killrig is back on 27”. But you need to pay huge tax for Ghazzy

2. Mega Dread Mega Charge add 1D6 and discard lowest. However MD is M8” so it is hardly over 20,5” range. Don' t work.

3. Da Jump - Just Core, don' t work.

4. Evil Sunz sheneningas - add 1”. Better with Great Waaagh but not so much. Warlord trait don' t work because CORE. Redder paint add M2” and fight first, which is great.

5. Wartrika - M14” = 25,5”. With GW = 31,5” but wartrike is one shot. Die fast alone. Not great

7. Squig-hide Tyres - add M1” and A2” to any vehicles.


Scenarios:

I. Without Ghazzy - BW / BB / Killrig M12” + Squig Tyres 1” + Ramming Speed and Erewego = about 24,5”…. not great

ES Killrig is 25,5” + Redder paint 2” = 27,5” and Fight first. That works but you need Evil Sunz.

II. With Ghazzy - Killrig is the only option due the CHARACTER keyword with maximum range without ES = 28”

With ES and Redder paint it' s 32” and fight first. Well… that is cool


Conclusions:
1. We can do Alpha Charge with Vehicles, but we have pretty limited options.
2. Either we need Ghazzy
3. Or Evil Sunz
4. Or both
5. And you definitely need Killrig

9000pt and one Ad Mech T-shirt 
   
Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




Danmark

Im not sure why the power lever and point cost is higer for the snazzwagon than the boosta blasta. Over all the kustom boosta blasta seem to have much higer damage output and the -1 to hit can be offset by keeping your buggies near your wartrike Who uses cloud of smoke to get -1 to hit.

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in hk
Regular Dakkanaut




Hong Kong

 Tomsug wrote:
Advance and charge and long range charge generaly:

My shooting buggy list likes enemy pined down in his deploy. I don' t like some CC dreadnoughts walking in my half of the table. I like to keep them home to give me space to care about my beloved objectives in the midfield.

To do this, stick something hard in opponents face is necessary.


The most accessible option is to infiltrate kommandos and charge them turn 1 in opponent DZ. They will be wiped of course, but that should pin the enemy for a turn, enough time for the rest of your army to arrive.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/22 16:41:28


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 Tomsug wrote:
Advance and charge and long range charge generaly:

Conclusions:
1. We can do Alpha Charge with Vehicles, but we have pretty limited options.
2. Either we need Ghazzy
3. Or Evil Sunz
4. Or both
5. And you definitely need Killrig



Why do you need Ghaz? I understand he gives you the benefits of Speedwaaagh! as well, but if you just want an alpha strike, any warboss that can call the regular Waaagh will work, right?

How about a Squigboss, with Redder Paint as your warlord, send Wartrike from another detachment, Kill Rigs as desired and Kommandos as mentioned above? Stormboyz could also work but if you are running buggies you might not have the Fast Attack slots. I am not sure it is worth it versus just waiting a turn, but giving up Speedwaaagh for regular Waaagh seems like an option if you want to prioritize your alpha.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/22 12:57:12


 
   
Made in gb
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

 Tomsug wrote:
Advance and charge and long range charge generaly:

My shooting buggy list likes enemy pined down in his deploy. I don' t like some CC dreadnoughts walking in my half of the table. I like to keep them home to give me space to care about my beloved objectives in the midfield.

To do this, stick something hard in opponents face is necessary.

However, we lost all abilities giving us advance and charge on Vehicles. This is pretty game-changing because to alphacharge, you need min.24” “guaranteed” and Advance was the few inches that pushed the BW to 27”. Without advance the standard one turn thread distance is for Battlewagon or Killrig or similar is M12” + Ramming speed 10,5”+ EreWeGo 1” = 23,5” or something.

This is not enough. How to pimp it up?

Options:

1. Take a Ghazzy and call the Great Waaaagh. This works however just for core and character units => Killrig is back on 27”. But you need to pay huge tax for Ghazzy

2. Mega Dread Mega Charge add 1D6 and discard lowest. However MD is M8” so it is hardly over 20,5” range. Don' t work.

3. Da Jump - Just Core, don' t work.

4. Evil Sunz sheneningas - add 1”. Better with Great Waaagh but not so much. Warlord trait don' t work because CORE. Redder paint add M2” and fight first, which is great.

5. Wartrika - M14” = 25,5”. With GW = 31,5” but wartrike is one shot. Die fast alone. Not great

7. Squig-hide Tyres - add M1” and A2” to any vehicles.


Scenarios:

I. Without Ghazzy - BW / BB / Killrig M12” + Squig Tyres 1” + Ramming Speed and Erewego = about 24,5”…. not great

ES Killrig is 25,5” + Redder paint 2” = 27,5” and Fight first. That works but you need Evil Sunz.

II. With Ghazzy - Killrig is the only option due the CHARACTER keyword with maximum range without ES = 28”

With ES and Redder paint it' s 32” and fight first. Well… that is cool


Conclusions:
1. We can do Alpha Charge with Vehicles, but we have pretty limited options.
2. Either we need Ghazzy
3. Or Evil Sunz
4. Or both
5. And you definitely need Killrig


though this may not be a good idea, vehicles arn't the only option for a turn one charge

Kommandos can deploy " 9" away from the enemy deployment zone and any enemy models."
they have movement 7 with evil sons kulture and adavnce d6+1 meaning you can advance as at "minimum" to the enemy deployment zone

using evil sons warlord trait you would almost certainly be able to advance and charge something turn 1.
only problem is you don't know if your going to have first turn and first turn is determined after deployment so probably not a good idea xD

SMASH  
   
Made in cz
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Prague

XC18 wrote:

The most accessible option is to infiltrate kommandos and charge them turn 1 in opponent DZ. They will be wiped of course, but that should pine the enemy for a turn, enough time for the rest of your army to arrive.


That is a good point! The rest of my army stays back but the close combat part of the army will do.

The problem I see is a colision with opponent pregame moves and the 9”. And the fact, I don' t know if I go first or second. Because if go second, opponents move less than 9” and use my kommandos like a swing to get with his charge and consolidation to the midfield objectives in T1 and score even with slow units. Honestly, is it a good idea at all?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I put a priority on shooting for my buggies. That' s why I want speedwaaaagh.

But to protect my buggies to give them the space to shoot and score the VPs I need to keep enemy home. That is the reason, why I combine shooting buggies with some hard hitting stuff. I can't shoot down the whole opponents army. I need to batch it

The magic of transports is, that if they charge, fight and die another turn and than there is a crew that disemabark.

And the crew can use emergency disembark 6”. So they basicly jump over the opponents units and with their obsec, they take some objectives… in opponent deployment zone or whatever. That is what I do now and it works very good and drives opponent crazy. And score me the points.

Oh yes, and there are some armies, that shoot much better than me and the only way how to play againts them is charge them. As fast, as possible. Eldar, small chaos knights spam, etc.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 kingbbobb wrote:

…. using evil sons warlord trait you would almost certainly be able to advance and charge something turn 1.
only problem is you don't know if your going to have first turn and first turn is determined after deployment so probably not a good idea xD


Well, the point is not to charge and die in T1. The idea is to charge and stink there even in next opponents turn.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/08/22 13:34:26


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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Is the wazbom really green when at minimum it’s 190 points with kff and really should be 210 pts with telly blasta… that’s one of our most expensive vehicles.. maybe I don’t use them enough but it seems like an expensive easier to kill vehicle target especially when the Killrig is 190pts for better shooting, better durability and a great melee profile.. I mean sure the wazbom gets a -1 to hit and 5++ kff but the Killrig has more wounds, higher toughness, higher armor save and a built in 6++. And the Killrig is a rank lower. I’m missing something or it’s not adding up.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/08/22 13:50:16


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Jidmah wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Lootas just got worse pt for pt than last edition but went up a grade.... Can you explain that?


I'm not sure why exactly you think they are worse? They got cheaper, can move and shoot, gained T5, are more reliable and get 50% more shots at 24" than before. Heck, even grot shield is more reliable at protecting them now, even though it still sucks with 5pt gretchin.

Yes, mandatory spannaz, but both KMB and big shoota are decent options as they unit can now finally move instead of having to sit in a corner and or lose half their shooting.


They went down in price...but stayed the same as far as primary weapons loadout is concerned. 5 Lootas with Deffgunz = 100pts in 8th edition. 5 Lootas with deffgunz is now 102pts but you get a free spanner. The reason I highlight this is because nobody took the spanner last edition because...why would you? So points wise for their primary weapon system, they have gotten more expensive. They gained T5 absolutely but that is cancelled out by Mob rule nerf which means you really don't want to field these guys in anything bigger than MSU. They are more reliable at shooting, but they used to average 0.77 hits a turn at all ranges, they now average 0.66 hits a turn at 25-48' range. Grot shields did get better at protecting them...but the grots also went up in price and worse, you have to declare you are grot shielding the lootas before they are targeted which means your opponent can just ignore them and force you to spend CP without any benefit for yourself except protecting your lootas which as mentioned...just got worse dmg potential wise. As far as 50% more shots at 24. Again, on average yes, but you have to get within 24' to get this and if you are footsloggin they won't last long unless you are also foot sloggin a Grots unit which at that point you just jacked their price up even higher for less dmg potential. At best they will ride in a trukk but that also increases their cost by 70pts.

KMB and big shoota are ok options, but of the two, neither has the same range as the loota which means they want you to get close to benefit from it. And if the KMB rolls a 1 you just lost a 22pt model, and as a reminder, a Spanner has a 33% chance to hit with a KMB and a 16.6% chance to kill himself with the KMB.

 Blackie wrote:

The unsupported unit (no CPs invested and no auxiliary unit except a transport) is so much better now, that's why they gained a grade.

They were completely unplayable without investing tons of stuff on them, now they are at least decent even on their own.


Well that was the thing wasn't it? Lootas were god awful last edition, as soon as Loota bomb went away you never saw lootas on the table again.

So unsupported, as in, no kulture, no CP, no anything. A unit of 5 lootas was 100pts and averaged 3.88 hits a turn at all ranges that works out to 1 hit per 25.7pts. A unit of 5 lootas now is 85pts and averages 2.66 hits a turn at 25-48' and 4 hits a turn at 1-24 range. That means that at 50%+ range they are 1 hit per 31.8pts and at 50% range or less they are 1 hit per 25.25pts

As far as Dmg potential in modifiers, the 8th edition loota was way better, but the CP investment was huge and again, after mob up went away...not worth it.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

its incredibly difficult to math out a random shot mechanic and compare it to a nonrandom one.

I stopped using lootas long before the lootabomb went away because i got sick of rolling a 1 multiple times in a row on that D3, which basically makes them completely worthless.
Their theoretical damage output is lower now for sure...since when do we compare that to averages? Nobody likes bringing units that 1/3 of the time does jack squat even if it means 1/3 of the time they make it rain bullets.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Vineheart01 wrote:
its incredibly difficult to math out a random shot mechanic and compare it to a nonrandom one.

I stopped using lootas long before the lootabomb went away because i got sick of rolling a 1 multiple times in a row on that D3, which basically makes them completely worthless.
Their theoretical damage output is lower now for sure...since when do we compare that to averages? Nobody likes bringing units that 1/3 of the time does jack squat even if it means 1/3 of the time they make it rain bullets.


Competitively, before the loota bomb went away, Ork players were winning tournament with it. So yeah, those occasions when you rolled 1 shot and re-rolled 1 shot were bad, but they were countered by far by the chance of rolling 3 shots and not having to re-roll a 2 shot either. They were a CP sink to be sure, but they would EAT your opponents army.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





United Kingdom

XC18 wrote:
 Tomsug wrote:
Advance and charge and long range charge generaly:

My shooting buggy list likes enemy pined down in his deploy. I don' t like some CC dreadnoughts walking in my half of the table. I like to keep them home to give me space to care about my beloved objectives in the midfield.

To do this, stick something hard in opponents face is necessary.


The most accessible option is to infiltrate kommandos and charge them turn 1 in opponent DZ. They will be wiped of course, but that should pine the enemy for a turn, enough time for the rest of your army to arrive.


I'm actually using bigger mobs of kommandos for exactly this. Two units of ten kommandos with a PK, bomb squig and Breacha Ram. They either get a turn one charge to save other units from being shot off the board, or they're enough of a threat in cover that they get the attention of the shooting that would otherwise past more threatening units.
   
Made in fr
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






Yeah killrig not in green means Jidmah probably hasn’t tried it out yet. Once you try it out, you know GW won’t leave it at 190 points for long still.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/22 17:04:05


Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

yeah the Hunta Rig is probably about right since it really doesnt do much other than move 15 snaggas and has decent melee
Kill rig is pennies more for psyker power and a mean autohitting attack....for 5 less capacity

i dont see a reason to run hunta rigs, even if say killrigs were not allowed i would just run wagons.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in cz
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Prague

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i dont see a reason to run hunta rigs, even if say killrigs were not allowed i would just run wagons.


That is the reason why I do Killrigs like extension on my wagons on magnets. After the nerf of killrigs, I can switch back to anything else, totaly dyno-free.

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Made in fr
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






Anyways they will fist sell tons of kits, then once they have sold enough, they will give it a 20 point increase. I will be one of the suckers buying the thing (just one though)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/22 18:12:29


Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh 
   
Made in cz
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Prague

 Afrodactyl wrote:

I'm actually using bigger mobs of kommandos for exactly this. Two units of ten kommandos with a PK, bomb squig and Breacha Ram. They either get a turn one charge to save other units from being shot off the board, or they're enough of a threat in cover that they get the attention of the shooting that would otherwise past more threatening units.


That is actualy one of the alternative options. The problem is a magic number 24”. This is very common range and the distance between the deployments. Putting Komandos in 9” does not necessary soak the fire that threaten the buggies. It just offer the target for the guns that remain silence otherwise. The same story like with the Jets. Jets are however the same target as buggies, so soaking better.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/22 18:45:18


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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




 addnid wrote:
Anyways they will fist sell tons of kits, then once they have sold enough, they will give it a 20 point increase. I will be one of the suckers buying the thing (just one though)


It would still be fairly good with a 20 point increase in my opinion.
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





United Kingdom

 Tomsug wrote:
 Afrodactyl wrote:

I'm actually using bigger mobs of kommandos for exactly this. Two units of ten kommandos with a PK, bomb squig and Breacha Ram. They either get a turn one charge to save other units from being shot off the board, or they're enough of a threat in cover that they get the attention of the shooting that would otherwise past more threatening units.


That is actualy one of the alternative options. The problem is a magic number 24”. This is very common range and the distance between the deployments. Putting Komandos in 9” does not necessary soak the fire that threaten the buggies. It just offer the target for the guns that remain silence otherwise. The same story like with the Jets. Jets are however the same target as buggies, so soaking better.


My kommandos and buggies are both supported by trukk boys that present as fast moving targets on both ends of that spectrum. Fortunately so far they've all gelled quite well with one another in that regard and shooting at one target has meant that the other is getting through to cause chaos for my opponent.

This will probably change with time and as soon as my regular opponents have nailed down the target priority of the list, but for now it's certainly working.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






SemperMortis wrote:

They went down in price...but stayed the same as far as primary weapons loadout is concerned. 5 Lootas with Deffgunz = 100pts in 8th edition. 5 Lootas with deffgunz is now 102pts but you get a free spanner. The reason I highlight this is because nobody took the spanner last edition because...why would you? So points wise for their primary weapon system, they have gotten more expensive.

So they gained an extra wound, the ability to move, more shots at 24" and a big shoota for two points. That's not a nerf.
The new KMB for just 5 points also isn't a terrible deal.

They gained T5 absolutely but that is cancelled out by Mob rule nerf which means you really don't want to field these guys in anything bigger than MSU.

Outside of the lootastar, which was already dead an buried with the start of 9th, there was no reason to field lootas as anything but MSU already. In fact, 9 models was optimal because of blasts and the clever spanna stratagem. So when you lost 3 lootas for the 50% chance to fail you already were below the ld6 threshold, meaning mob rule actually got better for lootas.
But alas, lootas never really benefited from mob rule to begin with because they were nowhere near large mobs or inside transports for most of the game.

They are more reliable at shooting, but they used to average 0.77 hits a turn at all ranges, they now average 0.66 hits a turn at 25-48' range.

I'm not willing to math that out in detail, but I'm sure the one big shoota hit amounts to some damage as well which is only slightly worse than the .5555 lota hits lost.

Grot shields did get better at protecting them...but the grots also went up in price

They didn't. They were 5 points before and are now slightly harder get through if you want to get to the unit behind it.

and worse, you have to declare you are grot shielding the lootas before they are targeted which means your opponent can just ignore them and force you to spend CP without any benefit for yourself except protecting your lootas

That is true, though with proper obscuring terrain there is no guarantee that your opponent can pick a different target. Personally, I haven't use the stratagem to protect lootas in 9th before the codex and won't use it after. 5 points gretchin are just too expensive for this purpose. I didn't put up a stratagem ranking because it varies too much with personal playstyle, but for me grot shields are a dead red stratagem. The only real use I could see is if a dedicated shooting unit would be out of targets when you use the stratagem, which is quite situational.
If you try to plan around it, you are definitely setting yourself up for failure, so it's not something you should consider for lootas.

which as mentioned...just got worse dmg potential wise. As far as 50% more shots at 24. Again, on average yes, but you have to get within 24' to get this and if you are footsloggin they won't last long unless you are also foot sloggin a Grots unit which at that point you just jacked their price up even higher for less dmg potential. At best they will ride in a trukk but that also increases their cost by 70pts.

Sorry, but this is a bit to hand-wavey. Even if you completely ignore anything but damage output (which is flawed by itself already), at 24" you now get 5 loota hits instead of 3 for your 100/102 points plus 1 or 1.4444 big shoota hits.
In addition, lootas can now move to line up shots without investing CP or losing half their firepower, so you also gain

So for your premise of these changes being a nerf to be true, you would have to prove that the losing the .5555 hits when standing still at 25"+ is actually vastly more likely to happen than gaining 2 hits at 0-24" or moving to line up shots and gaining 1.9444 hits.

When properly deployed, 24" range usually means being able to reach all of the midfield of on one flank, or when deployed in the center (don't don that) all of it. Basically you are shooting all your opponent's fast assets, melee units, mid-range shooting and objective grabbers with the vastly improved profile, while being worse at shooting home objective campers, direkt fire artillery and unobscurable models from across the board.
Lootas aren't too hot at taking out T7+ vehicles and elite infantry which usually make up the later group, so this makes the loss matter even less.

In other words, in terms of pure offense, the "nerf" is that you trade DDD and 2 points at 25-48" for a big shoota if someone choses to stand in your LoS for some reason. If you need to move to line up shots or are within 24", lootas have undeniably become strictly better.

KMB and big shoota are ok options, but of the two, neither has the same range as the loota which means they want you to get close to benefit from it. And if the KMB rolls a 1 you just lost a 22pt model, and as a reminder, a Spanner has a 33% chance to hit with a KMB and a 16.6% chance to kill himself with the KMB.

A spanner with KMB gets .66 hits on average with the KMB and has a 30.55% chance to kill himself. From a pure damage perspective, a KMB is superior to a deff gun, but only a valid choice if you put them into a trukk.
As for the big shoota, according to your own calculations it's an extra wound for 2 points that sometimes add damage and can repair vehicles. An 8th edition ammo runt for 2 points would have been a no-brainer auto-take update.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 addnid wrote:
Yeah killrig not in green means Jidmah probably hasn’t tried it out yet. Once you try it out, you know GW won’t leave it at 190 points for long still.


I don't think anyone has tried it out yet properly. The post is not just based on my own experience, but also on experiences I read across the multiple ork communities I visit.

I do think it has the potential to become a staple for every ork vehicle list. It also has the potential to become a crater at the beginning of turn 1 every game. As such, I do not want to give it a green flag(=every ork player should have this) until people have actually proven that it is as awesome as everyone thought.

Personally I think its main weakness is probably that most of the beast snagga powers are very situational, so you aren't guaranteed to super-charge the laser if you bring more than one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In other related new, a certain russian wiki now has the new ork codex. In accordance to the wishes of the dakka moderatos, please do not post links to pages that might be violating IP rights.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/22 21:27:24


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I am known as a lazy ork player and I'm in love that the stompa points went down. Now I can bring my stompy knights.

Behold my 2k (not so) nightmare list of Big Mek's Brainzzap:

Big Mek in mega armor with teleporta/kmb

3 deff dreads.
1 with all 4 klaws
1 with 3 klaws/scortch
1 with 4 rockets
(how I modeled them all)

3 killa kans
2 with rockets, 1 with scortcha

1 morkanaut with KFF
1 gorkanaut
1 very stompy stompa

No idea what to do though for kultur/wl/relic though
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Either freebootas, goffs or blood axes. Freebootas would have been a go-to option if you had more shooty elements to deal with small enemy squads for your super heavies to get +1 to hit bonus, however you'll not likely get it triggered with shooting before at least 1 of the naughty and will still waste some mellee potential before getting +1 to hit, but hey, if you know your opponent is gona run easy-to-kill msu that will reliably get a squad gunned down by a couple killa kan + dread rokkits, go for it.

Goffs are plain and simple extra mellee hits while blood axes are more subtle with "i've got a plan, ladz", 2+ armor t1 vs shooting outside 18 in case you go 2d, so that you can save kff for t2 or lure your opponent within 18" for your big'n stompy robots to follow up with the charge, and more versatility to fall back and shoot with your gargants or charge with your smaller walkers. In case you get tarpitted with something you can't chew through. And when our Titans degrade, they become progressively worse in mellee. Well, freebootas are

So, in your case, I'd go blood axes. The mind tricks you can pull off redeploying or reserving a stompa with 2 naughty are gold. And those extra tricks are more likely to win you games than simple extra hits in mellee.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/08/23 00:50:37


 
   
Made in gb
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

 addnid wrote:
Yeah killrig not in green means Jidmah probably hasn’t tried it out yet. Once you try it out, you know GW won’t leave it at 190 points for long still.


lol not a chance in hell.......250 pts during the next update,

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/23 01:06:13


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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I mean the wazbom is green and it costs more (190-210pts), has less reliable offense, lower toughness, lower wounds, lower save and no massive melee potential. In fact I don’t even think the wazbom is worth being green.

And the psyker Killrig gets to cast 2 powers automatically including smite and most of thier powers are only a warp charge 6 including the squig buffing power. I don’t really see an issue with being able to cast stuff.

I mean sure the wazbom has a -1 to hit built in and a 5++ instead of a 6++ but the Killrig is still more Durable with better more reliable offense. Auto hitting main gun, all other shooting is +1 to hit vs vehicles/monster and reroll hit. I think the Killrig will certainly be nerfed at some point. If you want to lower its rank cause of that maybe.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/23 14:04:34


 
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Especially if you pass them the gitbones relic. If you intend to give one of the killrigs just witchfires it could very much be worth it. Fairly useful for sniping characters if you use a few different spells to do so.

But yeah, i'd not be surprised if killrigs get a point increase in the near future. They offer so much. Or the hunta rig gets a points decrease. I'd prefer that option honestly.
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Killrig unarguably green. Especially if you have multiples.

Blastajet - arguably. It's green vs certain matchups. Just like blood axes that are green vs fast mellee armies but are red just cause.

Green is best but red ones go fasta, so, you never know.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/23 05:11:36


 
   
Made in se
Screamin' Stormboy





 Jidmah wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yeah killrig not in green means Jidmah probably hasn’t tried it out yet. Once you try it out, you know GW won’t leave it at 190 points for long still.
I don't think anyone has tried it out yet properly. The post is not just based on my own experience, but also on experiences I read across the multiple ork communities I visit.

I do think it has the potential to become a staple for every ork vehicle list. It also has the potential to become a crater at the beginning of turn 1 every game. As such, I do not want to give it a green flag(=every ork player should have this) until people have actually proven that it is as awesome as everyone thought.

Personally I think its main weakness is probably that most of the beast snagga powers are very situational, so you aren't guaranteed to super-charge the laser if you bring more than one.
I would agree with this. There´s something problematic with a 190 points model that brims with options, yet is mostly a brawler piece.

It transports Beastsnagga only. There are guns, but they are iffy (1 shot or D6 Blast on a melee unit?). It´s a anti-tank magnet in an army that thrives on multiple small vehicles. It´s a Psyker, which is good, but also adds an (unnecessary) character to the list, meaning it cancels Abhor the With, raising the Assassinate count, making it even a bigger target. It´s just a bunch of small little things.

It´s also theory, but I can´t really like it (yet). I might be totally wrong too.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 koooaei wrote:
Killrig unarguably green. Especially if you have multiples.

Blastajet - arguably. It's green vs certain matchups. Just like blood axes that are green vs fast mellee armies but are red just cause.

Green is best but red ones go fasta, so, you never know.


Since this is the third time you are taking a piss on the first post, feel free to write up a rainbow table yourself and let the other pick it apart. Make sure to not copy any of my work to get a real feel about how much effort that is.
I'm not a fan of these tables. They are for new players and people unfamiliar with orks, and assigning numbers from 1-5 to an entire codex is highly inaccurate. I create them at the request of the community, because people wanted them back when I dropped them. Their primary gain for me from them is starting a discussion.

I have heard your opinion and disagree with it, because the terrible trait hasn't magically become "always take, no matter what" just because everyone has OP dark eldar stuck to their bumpers. I have played literally dozens of games with blood axe buggies and it is a non-trait against pretty much every army that is not drukhari for the reasons outlined in the post. A trait that has almost no effect when playing against marines, sisters, admech, AM, craftworld eldar, knights or death guard has no business being anywhere near green.

The blood axe clan as a whole as improved, but the kulture is unchanged. I see zero reason why it suddenly should go up, especially that far, and your only real argument is "tournaments!!!". And just for the record, having seen tournament results without providing links is not proof.

So either provide some actual reasoning why a worthless trait has jumped from red to green overnight despite not changing, or stop being a whiney about it. It's always easy to take a gak on other people's work and not invest any yourself.

And just for the record, I had already changed the rating of the wazzbom based on your arguments.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/08/23 09:15:00


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Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

Ratings are just a hint, tiers that are divided by one step are basically on par. As long as there aren't units that are put out of place and clearly belong to a wrong tier (example: kill rig in red) the table is ok. Minor changes to units' ratings are not significant, as it's impossible to make everyone agree about all ratings.


 
   
 
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