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Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'




Crescent City Fl..

 Cap'n Facebeard wrote:
Yeah, 3rd ed Orks vs 5th ed Necrons? Yikes.

I'll take the 3rd edition orks against that any time.
The 4th edition codex would have been decent if it had the 3rd edition Armory options.


3rd edition Blood Angels seem strong with that first turn charge but there was a Nidz list that dropped Genestelers right into close combat from deepstrike.
An d Kroot merks had a devastating first turn charge game, which could easily be stopped with a few empty transports parked as far forward as possible.

"Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe, anything at all, you would've hidden from it in terror."
My blog http://warhead01.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-art-of-ork.html 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Prohammer question:

GSC can be played via the 7th ed GSC dex?

Other thoughts on Oldhammer editions:

I liked the Witch Hunter and Daemon Hunter books. GW's failure to put out an Alien Hunter Dex to complete the trifecta was the great tragedy of that edition for me... That and the demise of GSC- though Tim Huckleberry's Citadel Journal GSC list was pretty cool.

Sisters dexes 2,3,8,9. Anything else might as well have never existed.

Good GSC + Good Sisters in the same ed is one of the reasons I like 8/9.

It remains to be seen whether 9th follows in 8th's footsteps in terms of providing a dex for every faction, or if we're returning to the pre-8th mess which was "You'll get a dex if you're one of the lucky ones."

To me, that's the worst thing that many of the folks who romanticize previous editions tend to glance over.
   
Made in gb
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PenitentJake wrote:
GW's failure to put out an Alien Hunter Dex to complete the trifecta was the great tragedy of that edition for me
There were Deathwatch rules in 3rd edition, and from the article:
"Up to one Kill Team can be included in any Imperium army as an HQ choice (an army list entry follows). For this purpose, an Imperium army will consist of any Space Marine army picked from only Codex Space Marines*, any Imperial Guard army (including Catachans, Steel Legion, and the like), or any Inquisitorial army (Daemonhunters, Witch Hunters, or Alien Hunters)."

I wonder how far along the codex was, and if it was anything more than the shared inquisition units and 20pt space marines with meltabombs, true grit, deepstrike, and expensive ammo options.
   
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GSC had a fun 3rd edition list right alongside witch hunters.

I still remember the hilarious model limousine cars you got as the dedicated transports for the HQ choices, like they were mob bosses.
   
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Just out of curiosity I dug out my old Chapter Approved books and decided to see if I could replicate a modern vehicle using the VDR.

I'm sure someone would poo-poo my design, but the Knight Paladin I made came out at 370 points, which isn't too far off the 7th ed cost

   
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washington state USA

Simplycasualgaming wrote:So I got into warhammer with 8th ed. Leading up to it I would watch all these batreps from 7th ed and it made me like space marines and chaos space marines with all the different weapons and such. Then 8th ed came out and it is nothing but boring primaris and CSM sucking. So which oldhammer edition is your favorite, cause I am thinking about talking my friends into trying an older edition for funs.



I have a dedicated thread on here for this very topic.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/789567.page

Mezmorki has done impressive work with his prohammer project.
However our group avoids making any of our own rules. because 3rd-7th are cross compatible all we did was import a few rules from editions 3, 4, 6, & 7 into 5th because 5th has the best overall core rules. but some of the rules were done better in other editions (like overwatch, and grenade throwing, both of which work well in 5th considering how much less lethal the game is overall).

We play it regularly and crossing over codexes form one edition to the other against each other within the confines of 5th edition and have found that it is not imbalanced. Even when we import newer models into the older codexes(very easy to do as i explain in my topic).

The key is to have the right mindset for the game. it was never intended to be tournament balanced. it was meant to be- a game among friends where you play the factions strengths and weaknesses in the way they would behave in the 40K universe-. As such many of the 3rd and 4th edition codexes and themed lists are favorites among the players. playing the game is the best part about it, winning or losing is just a way to end the adventure.

Mezmorki wrote:One thing I'll say about OldHammer is that you can find a lot of codexes for pretty cheap used on Amazon. I've gotten any codex I needed from old editions for usually just a few bucks, which is great.

The other upside of OldHammer, assuming you get a group to join you on the endeavor, is that you don't have to play the waiting game of "when will the next codex come out for my army!?" It's all released, it's static, the codex rules aren't going to change on you, etc. It's nice to play with a complete and static ruleset.

If I had to play a "pure" version of the game, I'd be a toss up between 5th edition vs. 4th edition. I'd probably go 5th edition and use the following codexes:

- Space Marines (5th)
- Blood Angles (5th)
- Dark Angles (4th)
- Space Wolves (5th)
- Black Templars (4th)
- Chaos Marines (3.5 edition)
- Orks (3rd) + Feral Orks (3rd, in chapter approved)
- Tyranids (5th probably?)
- Tau (4th)
- Necrons (5th)
- Dark Eldar (5th)
- Eldar (4th, but maybe stretch to 6th and break the rule)
- Imperial Guard (3.5 edition with regimental doctrines, 4th ed catachans also)
- Witch Hunters (3rd edition)
- Daemonhunters (3rd)

I made this crazy codex + edition chart once upon a time for reference:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m5Opo0yRVuHDfnqBTlSDKExlxzpL20rL0jL5d-TeZ2g/edit?usp=sharing




I mostly agree with this list with a few exceptions

.Dark angels-3.5 mini dex it may not have as many options as the 4th ed codex but it has all the flavor and theme that makes them dark angels.
.Orks-definatley 4th ed codex, it was used half way through 5th and has so much fun in it.
.Tyranids-again 4th ed codex. some of the best biomorph options for making unique armies and quite good for importing newer bugs into.
.imperial guard-5th hands down. 3rd had the doctrines, and we miss them but they are not worth loosing the options in the 5th ed book.
.addendum to imperial guard-3rd edition chapter approved imperial guard armored company-one of the guys at the store uses it.
.gene stealer cults 7th
.mechanicus 7th
.pure chaos demon armies-4th (without the summoning free armies spam)





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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
GSC had a fun 3rd edition list right alongside witch hunters.

I still remember the hilarious model limousine cars you got as the dedicated transports for the HQ choices, like they were mob bosses.


Wargames Exclusive still makes a "Genecult Limousine" - IMHO it isn't as cool as the rest of their car kits because there are issues with the wheels... But it's still not a bad model. I forget whether the Cult Limo was in the official 2nd ed GSC list. I think I might still have that dex- if so I'll check when I get home. I know it was in the RT era WD list, and Tim Huckleberry's 3rd ed Citadel Journal list.

My favourite part of the 3rd ed Huckleberry list was the Young Patriarch option. It cost less, and was a lower level psyker, but it was as fast as a regular purestrain in a list where a typical patriarch was not. This was one of those things that foreshadowed the progression system that comes with Crusade, and it was one of the things that turned me onto campaign style 40k/ RPG fusion. Another from the same era and source was the Citadel Journal Covert X campaign- formative moments in a lifetime of 40k.

Incidentally, the classic metal GSC range was really cool for this, because they have an old bloated Patriarch in a throne and a running patriarch who is still obviously more wizened than a purestrain, but still young enough to move and fight like one. I am fortunate enough to have both models, so my patriarch will grow with the Crusade- he's represented by a plain old Spacehulk purestrain until he's blooded, then he become the Spacehulk Patriarch until he reaches Heroic, at which point he gets the metal running model, and once he goes Legendary, he'll get his throne.

   
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

PenitentJake wrote:
My favourite part of the 3rd ed Huckleberry list was the Young Patriarch option. It cost less, and was a lower level psyker, but it was as fast as a regular purestrain in a list where a typical patriarch was not. This was one of those things that foreshadowed the progression system that comes with Crusade, and it was one of the things that turned me onto campaign style 40k/ RPG fusion. Another from the same era and source was the Citadel Journal Covert X campaign- formative moments in a lifetime of 40k.
I worked with Tim on many of the 40k RPG books. We were never allowed to make references to Genestealer Cults except in the most oblique manner possible as we lived in the time of Alan Merritt, who didn't like GSC as a faction and therefore they weren't part of the game. It annoyed me, but I can only imagine how much it annoyed Tim, given his history with the faction.

Dark Heresy 2.0 was done and dusted by the time the revamped GSC got revealed to the world. Such a shame...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/06 05:00:31


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
. . . Alan Merritt, who didn't like GSC as a faction and therefore they weren't part of the game. It annoyed me, but I can only imagine how much it annoyed him, given his history with the faction.


Huh? So many questions

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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 Insectum7 wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
. . . Alan Merritt, who didn't like GSC as a faction and therefore they weren't part of the game. It annoyed me, but I can only imagine how much it annoyed him, given his history with the faction.


Huh? So many questions

I think HBMC is referring to Tim Huckleberry in the second sentence, not Alan Merritt.

2021 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My [url=https://pileofpotential.com/dysartes]Pile of Potential[/url - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army... 
   
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I went and edited my original post to make it clearer.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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St. George, UT

 Blackie wrote:
Jarms48 wrote:
 Mezmorki wrote:


- Space Marines (5th)
- Blood Angles (5th)
- Dark Angles (4th)
- Space Wolves (5th)
- Black Templars (4th)
- Chaos Marines (3.5 edition)
- Orks (3rd) + Feral Orks (3rd, in chapter approved)
- Tyranids (5th probably?)
- Tau (4th)
- Necrons (5th)
- Dark Eldar (5th)
- Eldar (4th, but maybe stretch to 6th and break the rule)
- Imperial Guard (3.5 edition with regimental doctrines, 4th ed catachans also)
- Witch Hunters (3rd edition)
- Daemonhunters (3rd)


There's going to be some serious balance issues there. As a Guard player who was using 3.5 edition throughout 5th until the Guard dex dropped they just couldn't compete.



Orks would be in significant disadvantage by using their 3rd edition codex instead of their 4th one vs most of those other codexes.


I donno, I think the third Ed Orks, with the Speed Feeks supplement could hold up pretty good. The only difference when using the older codex is the lack of free gear. You had to buy your grenades and other squad upgrades that you get for free in newer codex's.

As an example, I took the exact same Tau models and pointed them out using the 4th and 7th Ed codex's. The 7th Ed list was 300 points cheaper for the exact same models, and had more firepower in the form of twin linking, grenades, and built included suit hardware to boot.

See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:


 
   
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Nuremberg

Boyz were cheaper and had higher str on the charge in the 4e book, and that made a huge difference. Also Lootas were crazy good at dealing with light vehicles.

   
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 Da Boss wrote:
Boyz were cheaper and had higher str on the charge in the 4e book, and that made a huge difference. Also Lootas were crazy good at dealing with light vehicles.
Those 3rd ed Choppas tho. . .

The Choppas forcing armor to a 4+ save was brutal. Then Skarboyz with S4 and Choppas were dangerous AF. And the Kult of Spped rules where models would Fall Back to their Trukks and auto-rally? (Iirc) incredibly nasty ability.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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St. George, UT

 Insectum7 wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
Boyz were cheaper and had higher str on the charge in the 4e book, and that made a huge difference. Also Lootas were crazy good at dealing with light vehicles.
Those 3rd ed Choppas tho. . .

The Choppas forcing armor to a 4+ save was brutal. Then Skarboyz with S4 and Choppas were dangerous AF. And the Kult of Spped rules where models would Fall Back to their Trukks and auto-rally? (Iirc) incredibly nasty ability.


Don't forget 3rd Ed Orks biggest advantage. And that is that they double their initiative on the charge. The ability for basic boys to strike at I4 with four attacks each even if for one round was brutal. They just quickly got overpriced as all the newer marines got cheaper and free gear.

See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:


 
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 Jayden63 wrote:
They just quickly got overpriced as all the newer marines got cheaper and free gear.
The free grenades didn't happen until the early 5e-style books (4e Dark Angels and CSM).
4e marines were the old style gun only troops that paid 15pts to even look at the armoury page, wasn't until about a year after 4e orks that they got their freebies.
   
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Nuremberg

I never liked Choppas as it was so obvious that they were designed with marines in mind. S4 was a boost against everyone, for significantly fewer points per model, without weird outcomes like wrecking terminators for no real reason.
And S9 powerklaws on the charge finally meant we could get penetrating hits against AV14 with something other than a lucky zzap gun shot.

   
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 Da Boss wrote:
I never liked Choppas as it was so obvious that they were designed with marines in mind. S4 was a boost against everyone, for significantly fewer points per model, without weird outcomes like wrecking terminators for no real reason.
And S9 powerklaws on the charge finally meant we could get penetrating hits against AV14 with something other than a lucky zzap gun shot.
Iirc the Boyz became even worse after the charge though, since they'd be striking at S3, and without Choppas their damage really dwindled off.

Of course to each their own. I didn't play against the 4th-5th ed codex much, but I had a lot of really good battles vs. The 3rd ed book and expansions.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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washington state USA

I have had all sorts of silly fun fighting the 4th ed ork dex.

It was a bit of an expensive build but i got smashed by a mad doc grotsnik cybork ork list....orks with a 5++ save are surprisingly hard to kill.

earlier this year i did a battle of my 5th ed marine list VS a 4th ed ork horde list, it was a downright bloodletting but the orks managed to pull it off.

Spoiler:



GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




St. George, UT

 Da Boss wrote:
I never liked Choppas as it was so obvious that they were designed with marines in mind. S4 was a boost against everyone, for significantly fewer points per model, without weird outcomes like wrecking terminators for no real reason.
And S9 powerklaws on the charge finally meant we could get penetrating hits against AV14 with something other than a lucky zzap gun shot.


It only looks like it was set against marines because power armored armies outnumbered all other armies five to one. And while the Choppa was brutal against terminators, it also helped the boys deal with the big bugs, a few eldar units, and other choice units that popped up from time to time. As for killing AV 14 I never had an issue with it as I brought tank bustas with their ever glorious tank Busta bombs. Early editions had units that were designed for a specific battlefield roll, not every unit had to be able to counter everything.

See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:


 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
PenitentJake wrote:
My favourite part of the 3rd ed Huckleberry list was the Young Patriarch option. It cost less, and was a lower level psyker, but it was as fast as a regular purestrain in a list where a typical patriarch was not. This was one of those things that foreshadowed the progression system that comes with Crusade, and it was one of the things that turned me onto campaign style 40k/ RPG fusion. Another from the same era and source was the Citadel Journal Covert X campaign- formative moments in a lifetime of 40k.
I worked with Tim on many of the 40k RPG books. We were never allowed to make references to Genestealer Cults except in the most oblique manner possible as we lived in the time of Alan Merritt, who didn't like GSC as a faction and therefore they weren't part of the game. It annoyed me, but I can only imagine how much it annoyed Tim, given his history with the faction.

Dark Heresy 2.0 was done and dusted by the time the revamped GSC got revealed to the world. Such a shame...



Huh, is that why it is so hard finding a statline for genestealers in those books? I remember spending half of an afternoon looking once in prep for a campaign (the players took the other hook/mission so it was moot anyways), and it took me looking online eventually to learn that they are called Stalkers. Doing a casual reread of that section the actual word "Tyranid" only comes up like one time total like 3 pages earlier too.

That is kind of a shame, as hunting a Genestealer Cult is one of the first things I would think of for an Inquisition rpg.



For the actual topic at hand, I am partial to 4th, and the girlfriend likes 5th, so on the rare chances we get to play, we usually do one of those. We have looked into Prohammer too as that seems promising.
   
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Italy

 Jayden63 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
Boyz were cheaper and had higher str on the charge in the 4e book, and that made a huge difference. Also Lootas were crazy good at dealing with light vehicles.
Those 3rd ed Choppas tho. . .

The Choppas forcing armor to a 4+ save was brutal. Then Skarboyz with S4 and Choppas were dangerous AF. And the Kult of Spped rules where models would Fall Back to their Trukks and auto-rally? (Iirc) incredibly nasty ability.


Don't forget 3rd Ed Orks biggest advantage. And that is that they double their initiative on the charge. The ability for basic boys to strike at I4 with four attacks each even if for one round was brutal. They just quickly got overpriced as all the newer marines got cheaper and free gear.


Orks buffs were massive in 4th edition codex.

Boyz were 6ppm, nobz/nob bikers were among the best units in the game (not even a unit in 3rd) and with a warboss/ghaz they were troops, big mek with KFF was just an upgrade for the warboss' bodyguards in 3rd while a very effective supporting character in 4th, battlewagon gained AV14 in the front, an extremely powerful melee weapon, the rolla, and lost the 0-1 restriction, lootas were useless in 3rd and became a very powerful unit in 4th. Mek gunz and killa kanz improved their BS, they used to hit on 5s like any other ork unit in 3rd. A lot of other stuff went cheaper. Bikes and dreads could have been taken as troops as well in 4th with the appropriate HQ. Named characters were part of the standard roster, not only available if the opponent gave consent. Ghaz was available even for games below the 2000 points. Kommandos, especially joined by Snikrot, had finally a role in the army. Etc....

Only real advantage that orks lost when the 4th codex was released was the AP for choppas. In 3rd they limited the enemy save to 4+ which was extremely useful against power and terminator armours. Against armies with 4+ or lower saves it was completely useless though.

The 3rd edition book is really cool, I loved it. But it doesn't compare well with 4th-5th edition codexes, they'd need their portion of cheese just like the other armies. 3rd edition codex and its supplement (also cool but there's nothing competitive in that) are ok if also all the other armies use the same edition's codex.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/07 09:09:32


 
   
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 kurhanik wrote:
Huh, is that why it is so hard finding a statline for genestealers in those books? I remember spending half of an afternoon looking once in prep for a campaign (the players took the other hook/mission so it was moot anyways), and it took me looking online eventually to learn that they are called Stalkers. Doing a casual reread of that section the actual word "Tyranid" only comes up like one time total like 3 pages earlier too.
There were stats for Genestealers scattered around a few books, and you'll find most of the Tyranids that existed at the time in Deathwatch rules, but we never got to put in Hybrids or the Magus or Patriarch.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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United Kingdom

I would say 2nd Edition for me was the most fun and most narrative of the editions. I still have the books for it. There was a lot of RPG elements in it which made the time invested in painting your models that much more enjoyable. More so when you had a gretchin take a terminator down in Close combat when the terminator had a 3+ armour save on 2D6

 
   
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On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Yes I would say the autogun to the terminator eye socket was a favourite 2nd edition moment of mine too

It usually seemed to happen after the terminator had shrugged off battlecannon and heavy plasma hits!

Also the marine commander charging in and tripping over their shoelaces, rolling something like a triple 1 'fumble' and being nailed by an Imperial Guardsman and his knife in close combat, thanks to the very variable close combat system.




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Nah, nothing like that. An acquaintance took command of my Nurgle CSM and two of his five Terminators managed to get killed by Eldar sniper rifles in turn 1.
   
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5th edition is the best. If you include the Imperial Armour and other addendums you have access to all the factions, including Feral Orks and Genestealer cults.

   
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Crumbum wrote:
5th edition is the best. If you include the Imperial Armour and other addendums you have access to all the factions, including Feral Orks and Genestealer cults.



Really?

I never purchased any of the Imperial Armour books, but I certainly don't remember seeing any GSC models on forgeworld's site. Do you mean "there was a doctrine that allowed you to field IG + Purestrains + the Space Hulk Patriarch?"

If so, I'd say that while it's certainly better than nothing, I'd hardly call that a Genestealer Cult.

But as I said, I'm pretty much in the dark when it comes to Imperial Armour- Forgeworld, with it's higher-priced, online only, exclusively resin range never seemed particularly accessible to me, so I never bothered.
   
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PenitentJake wrote:
Crumbum wrote:
5th edition is the best. If you include the Imperial Armour and other addendums you have access to all the factions, including Feral Orks and Genestealer cults.



Really?

I never purchased any of the Imperial Armour books, but I certainly don't remember seeing any GSC models on forgeworld's site. Do you mean "there was a doctrine that allowed you to field IG + Purestrains + the Space Hulk Patriarch?"

If so, I'd say that while it's certainly better than nothing, I'd hardly call that a Genestealer Cult.

But as I said, I'm pretty much in the dark when it comes to Imperial Armour- Forgeworld, with it's higher-priced, online only, exclusively resin range never seemed particularly accessible to me, so I never bothered.


If by "other addendums" they mean the Citadel Journal, then there was a GSC list in issues 40 and 41. Fully compatible with 5th as it was written during 3rd ed.
Feral Orks appeared in White Dwarf then in one of the Chapter Approved books.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/28 10:46:31




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If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
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Those works better in 4th imo. :p and the GSC list got reprinted in the big Chapter Approved books (I fondly remember the limousines).

Feral Orks and Kroot Mercenaries were available in the same fashion.
   
 
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