New HH Edition discussion.

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**Albertorius**

I got Imperial Fists. Funnily enough I play loyalist Iron Warriors, so... xD

**godardc**

And I got Blood Angel ! Not bad at all, always liked them
Have you seen the leaks so far ? Not a lot of changes, a small raise in points costs, and fewer ap2 / ap2 at initiative, otherwise looks pretty much the same
Some weird reactions tough

**jeff white**

Hairesy wrote:
Tannhauser42 wrote:
jeff white wrote:
Posting this link to a Heresy legion quiz selector, pretty cool!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/25/test-your-loyalties-and-discover-your-legion-in-this-horus-heresy-quiz/

I took it twice, got Raven Guard both times, as I just couldn't feel a better way to answer except for one case, using jump packs vs speeders. Answered differently on this one question, but got Raven Guard. Excited for that.

Wow. I got Ultramarines. Guess which legion I'm working on now? Ultramarines.

Does this mean I have to change my army I'm working on? I'm working on RG but got Night Lords. I knew we were the baddies, but not that bad! Well I can't change now, it's too late to turn back and I can't deny who I am... Oh wait, maybe I see how I got NL...

Style of engagement could be quite similar, as I was figuring I might end up night lords too… I think that if I had answered the first question about how to take the fortified bunker using jump troops to assault rather than how I did answer, then night lords might have been my result also.

I think it comes down to that. Raven Guard suits me tho, I think that the quiz was pretty spot on … enjoyed it!

**BrianDavion**

honestly I'd not put toooo much stock into this poll. I took the poll 3 times and got world eaters, sons of horus and ultramarines. I'm thinking I might actually look into 1k sons when the starter set comes out though. or maybe blood angels... or sons of horus...

DAMNIT SO MANY LEGIONS SO MANY CHOICES!

**Hairesy**

Maybe I'll go to 15mm and make ALL the Legions! Mwuahahahaha!

**godardc**

Do you think the Horus Heresy will be more accepted in the shops now ? Like an official game of GW, has it should have been since re beginning, or will it remain kinda sidelined ?

**stonehorse**

I think the reaction system is going to add a lot of strategic depth to the game, will mean that units have to be supported, and is a nice way to combat the down time between player turns. Really surprised that people are so set against it.

The only concern I have is that Blackshields and Shattered Legions haven't been mentioned, hope they are still a thing as my Marines are painted in my own colour scheme. Would hate to have to strip them and paint in one of the established legions.

**tauist**

stonehorse wrote:
I think the reaction system is going to add a lot of strategic depth to the game, will mean that units have to be supported, and is a nice way to combat the down time between player turns. Really surprised that people are so set against it.

The only concern I have is that Blackshields and Shattered Legions haven't been mentioned, hope they are still a thing as my Marines are painted in my own colour scheme. Would hate to have to strip them and paint in one of the established legions.

Perhaps they will return later in a separate book? I think the launch books are of the "get you by" variety, its quite probable that at least some of the factions will get more in depth rules as the edition matures..

I've always loved the concept of Blackshields, and really hope they will not become squatted

**godardc**

stonehorse wrote:
I think the reaction system is going to add a lot of strategic depth to the game, will mean that units have to be supported, and is a nice way to combat the down time between player turns. Really surprised that people are so set against it.

The only concern I have is that Blackshields and Shattered Legions haven't been mentioned, hope they are still a thing as my Marines are painted in my own colour scheme. Would hate to have to strip them and paint in one of the established legions.

No, it's going to take away all the strategic depths. Oh, you advanced too close to me ? Don't worry you can react and flee
Oh, you forgot to take cover ? Don't worry, you can shoot back
Etc
It's the death of strategy, you don't even have to think anymore, your units can always act whatever happens.
Nobody needs to act during his opponent's turn, it has been like this for 30 years and worked so well that 40k is the main wargame in the whole world. Copying games that are objectively less popular and less profitable is kind of weird.
Don't fix what ain't broken

**Hairesy**

No, let's just go nuts now. Formations, cards. The works. Let's bring back Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau and that kooky Emperors Children guy on a bike and make them Primarchs of the Lost Legions. Guess who is Primarch of the Rainbow Warriors? Just guess! Hint, it's not Sherlock.

**RazorEdge**

Albertorius wrote:
kirotheavenger wrote:
I think tracking individual men is too much for 6mm on a large scale, you really do want to be lumping squads of infantry into one "base".

But the concept is certainly sound. I think 15mm would be a great scale for 40k.

Let's just say, you are not the only one who has thought that

Spoiler:

They look nice. 3D printed? Source of them?

**Tannhauser42**

godardc wrote:

It's the death of strategy, you don't even have to think anymore, your units can always act whatever happens.

No, they can't. You get one reaction per phase, barring any special rules that may grant more.

Nobody needs to act during his opponent's turn, it has been like this for 30 years and worked so well that 40k is the main wargame in the whole world. Copying games that are objectively less popular and less profitable is kind of weird.
Don't fix what ain't broken

I do not agree with you that every burger restaurant should strive to be like McDonalds (the most popular and most profitable). If you truly believe that Warhammer/McDonalds is the best, you really need to try more games and try more burgers. Warhammer got to where it is by good marketing decisions, not by being a good game.

**stonehorse**

godardc wrote:
stonehorse wrote:
I think the reaction system is going to add a lot of strategic depth to the game, will mean that units have to be supported, and is a nice way to combat the down time between player turns. Really surprised that people are so set against it.

The only concern I have is that Blackshields and Shattered Legions haven't been mentioned, hope they are still a thing as my Marines are painted in my own colour scheme. Would hate to have to strip them and paint in one of the established legions.

No, it's going to take away all the strategic depths. Oh, you advanced too close to me ? Don't worry you can react and flee
Oh, you forgot to take cover ? Don't worry, you can shoot back
Etc
It's the death of strategy, you don't even have to think anymore, your units can always act whatever happens.
Nobody needs to act during his opponent's turn, it has been like this for 30 years and worked so well that 40k is the main wargame in the whole world. Copying games that are objectively less popular and less profitable is kind of weird.
Don't fix what ain't broken

Pretty sure the leaked rules have reactions as 1 per phase, so not all of your units will be able to do it all the time. Hence why units will need to be supported.

My experience in the table top hobby has been over 30 years, and not limited to GW systems. Unit interactions if done right are wonderful things that mean that olayers have to think about what they do more carefully. It is another element to consider, so it does make the game more strategic.

Also, the assault phase already has several places where units can act in their opponents turn and the game didn't fall apart.

**Albertorius**

RazorEdge wrote:
Albertorius wrote:
kirotheavenger wrote:
I think tracking individual men is too much for 6mm on a large scale, you really do want to be lumping squads of infantry into one "base".

But the concept is certainly sound. I think 15mm would be a great scale for 40k.

Let's just say, you are not the only one who has thought that

Spoiler:

They look nice. 3D printed? Source of them?

3d printed upscaled Epic models.

**RazorEdge**

Albertorius wrote:
RazorEdge wrote:
Albertorius wrote:
kirotheavenger wrote:
I think tracking individual men is too much for 6mm on a large scale, you really do want to be lumping squads of infantry into one "base".

But the concept is certainly sound. I think 15mm would be a great scale for 40k.

Let's just say, you are not the only one who has thought that

Spoiler:

They look nice. 3D printed? Source of them?

3d printed upscaled Epic models.

Do you have a link?

**Albertorius**

RazorEdge wrote:
Albertorius wrote:
RazorEdge wrote:
Albertorius wrote:
kirotheavenger wrote:
I think tracking individual men is too much for 6mm on a large scale, you really do want to be lumping squads of infantry into one "base".

But the concept is certainly sound. I think 15mm would be a great scale for 40k.

Let's just say, you are not the only one who has thought that

Spoiler:

They look nice. 3D printed? Source of them?

3d printed upscaled Epic models.

Do you have a link?

Search for "galactic crusaders" on the usual 3d printing sites and you'll find literal dozens of different models.

**Toofast**

Hairesy wrote:
Sad that we're all sitting here hoping for not awful rules isn't it?

Such is the life of a GW hobbyist. Really makes you want to slow down and enjoy the collection and modelling aspect of the hobby when you know for a fact the most important thing is for your toys to look cool.

After 20 years of playing mostly competitively, that's where I'm at now. I can't keep up with every new army being the OP hotness and some of them getting fixed in 3 months while others dominate for an entire year. I was fine with it in MtG, spending to keep up is part of any hobby involving competition from warhammer to racing RC cars to racing real cars. However when it takes me 6 months to build and paint a proper 2k army for most factions, it's just not worth it. I'm still working on my Black Templars army that I bought when they were released and I refuse to buy anything else until this army is done.

**RazorEdge**

From Reddit, Discord, 4Chan ect.:

here are some further informations for the Horus Heresy release in his Year.

Preorders for the first content are planned for May, releae then in June.

Releases for June:

>"Heta-Gladius" Launch Box: - £240

>Rulebook - £43

>Three Codex like compilation Books - £32.50 each
>>Loyalists
>>Traitors
>>Other Age of Darkness Armies - Loyalists and Traitors

Relaases for July:

> Three different Starter Sets - £180 /£100 / £40 each

>Space Marine Legionary + Paints Sets (A + B) - £23 each
>>3 Space Marines
>>7 paints

>Getting Started with Horus Heresy Magazine - £10
>>Includeds 2 Space Marine Legionaries

Releases for August:

>Space Marine Legion Tactical Squad - £36
>>10 Models multipart in the same fashion like the Chaos Space Marines
>>Common weapon options

>Daimos Pattern Rhino - £31

>Space Marine Legion Praetor - £22
>>Not the same Model than was already shown

Releases for September:

>Daimos Pattern Predator - £39
>Upgrade Spue Sons of Horus - £9.50
>Upgrade Spue Imperial Fists - £9.50
>Upgrade Spue Blood Angels - £9.50
>Upgrade Spue Emperors Children - £9.50
>Upgrade Spue White Scras - £9.50
>Upgrade Spue World Eaters - £9.50

Releases without date:

>Daimos Pattern Vindicator - £39
>Kratos Battle Tank - £52.50
>Land Raider - £52.50
>Land Raider Spartan - £60
>Contemptor Dreadnought - £35
>Space Marine Tactical Squad + Rhino - £57
>Daimos Pattern Rhino Suqadron - £87
>Daimos Pattern Predator Squadron - £107

>Space Marine Auxillary ->>I absolutly don't know what this is.

Mikhael

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer30k/comments/tq9xhs/horus_heresy_launch/

**godardc**

Daimos ? Land raider spartan ? Common weapons in tactical squads (so not all bolter ?) ? Kinda suspicious

**chaos0xomega**

The source on reddit is kind of a known fraudster/bad source of information. Very little of what hes posted in the past (and it seems hes deleted quite a bit of it) has been true, and what has been true can be explained as either piggybacking off of other rumors or reposting them, or just sheer dumb obvious luck (yeah, no gak x super-OP unit is going to get nerfed, etc.)

**infinite_array**

godardc wrote:
Daimos ? Land raider spartan ? Common weapons in tactical squads (so not all bolter ?) ? Kinda suspicious

At the very least, I'd expect the Mk VI sprues to have the same kind of weapons distribution that the Mk III and Mk IV had.

**RazorEdge**

chaos0xomega wrote:
The source on reddit is kind of a known fraudster/bad source of information. Very little of what hes posted in the past (and it seems hes deleted quite a bit of it) has been true, and what has been true can be explained as either piggybacking off of other rumors or reposting them, or just sheer dumb obvious luck (yeah, no gak x super-OP unit is going to get nerfed, etc.)

As I know the rumor apppeared the first time on Discord and 4chan by a different User and got then posted on reddit by this dude.

**Hairesy**

The more we talk about it, the less interested I am in new HH toys.

**BrianDavion**

godardc wrote:
Common weapons in tactical squads (so not all bolter ?) ? Kinda suspicious

Why? the mk 3 and mk iv boxes have a pretty clear precident.

case in point the MK IV box includes 10 boltguns, 1 plasma gun 1 flamer, 1 meltagun, 1 missile launcher, and some stuff for a sergant. given the mk II box has a single heavy weapon in the form of a heavy bolter, I'd be willing to bet the MK VI pack will include a Lascannon.

**tneva82**

godardc wrote:
Daimos ? Land raider spartan ? Common weapons in tactical squads (so not all bolter ?) ? Kinda suspicious

That's same as MKIII and MKIV boxes were though. Allows kit to be used to do veterans as well as all bolter squad.

Or you expect separate VI veteran box?-)

**BrianDavion**

tneva82 wrote:
godardc wrote:

Or you expect separate VI veteran box?-)

... I mean this IS GW...

**Crablezworth**

godardc wrote:
stonehorse wrote:
I think the reaction system is going to add a lot of strategic depth to the game, will mean that units have to be supported, and is a nice way to combat the down time between player turns. Really surprised that people are so set against it.

The only concern I have is that Blackshields and Shattered Legions haven't been mentioned, hope they are still a thing as my Marines are painted in my own colour scheme. Would hate to have to strip them and paint in one of the established legions.

No, it's going to take away all the strategic depths. Oh, you advanced too close to me ? Don't worry you can react and flee
Oh, you forgot to take cover ? Don't worry, you can shoot back
Etc
It's the death of strategy, you don't even have to think anymore, your units can always act whatever happens.
Nobody needs to act during his opponent's turn, it has been like this for 30 years and worked so well that 40k is the main wargame in the whole world. Copying games that are objectively less popular and less profitable is kind of weird.
Don't fix what ain't broken

I couldn't agree or exalt this more.

For starters it messes up 2v2 games or larger mega battles. The fact that they've embedded as a core thing and all the factions get their own special nonsense, you also see creep with characters increasing the amount of reactions. It just seems like stratagems by any other name and it's something I don't want in the game. It also complicates shooting a battle report where you just give a turn summary at the end, there's way too much "and then my opponent did this", it starts to destroy the point of a turn based system. What I find refreshing to come back to in 30k from having played AT for so long is, alternating activation is a real mixed bag, where as turn based, outside of perhaps a few key units to move or shoot with, you're pretty free in how you go about your turn, hell in the basement there's enough trust that someone can run upstairs or go to the washroom and trust their opponent when it comes to like difficult/dangerous tests and or scatter. Outside of intercepts, which aren't that common, there's very little interaction outside of rolling/going to ground and or challenges for the other player and that makes things flow pretty well. Constantly layering stuff to keep both sides interested is just needless complication. I sincerely hope the new edition can function without it.

**Hairesy**

I'll add that if GW wanted to mess with the way the game worked, why not save it for 10th Ed 40K?

It's clear that they don't mind making massive changes in 40K or AoS, but it was also understood that HH stayed with the old rules format for a reason. Did 7th Ed really need reactions? It makes one curious to see what else was changed.

**kodos**

this is kind of the first time I read that a game will lose on tactical depth if the players are able to make more decisions

and judging the quality of a game by how much profit a company makes is not even close to stupid as it ignores everything around

**Hairesy**

7th Ed rules had plenty of tactical depth and nuance though. Players had lots of list building choices if they were being honest about it and not just chasing meta. Its real failing was formations and intentional power creep. HH reworked that into RoWs and that seems to have been pretty popular with HH players. Power creep was addressed by the fact that everyone was playing Marines and for the most part everyone was using the same list, with flavorful variations. So the idea that now we're adding something for the sake of tactical depth is sort of silly. And having more options does not always increase depth, in fact being forced to deal with a negative situation is what makes games fun. If you can simply react with a tool for everything, then gameplay actually becomes more bland since no one is really forced to deal with any challenges or consequences. If I make a bad move and I'm not punished for it, how am I supposed to learn how to make good moves? Conversely, if I make a good move to counter you, but you can just use more rules to pad your position and negate the effects of my decision, what was the point of making that decision? At that point we might as well not have complex rules and just stack modifiers to apply more damage. Which then begs the question, why isn't 40K a card game?