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Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





If GW survived on the quality of the writing in their fluff, they would've been out of business 20 years ago...
   
Made in gb
Dipping With Wood Stain




Sheep Loveland

Currently, the meta around my way seems healthy, with about five of us, running Imperial Fists, Ultramarines, Word Barers, Night Lords and the fifth player not decided on a legion yet lol.

Anyway, our lists are mostly low tier, fairly simple TAC lists for us to learn and improve our game, so we have some self imposed limits of sorts where we can do so. Obviously, we will move into refining lists to our own tastes, but it won't be at the expense of other players as such.

For example, our group is the kind of people that agree that three quad mortars with phosphex shells as one choice in a death Guard list ids strong and fluffy. Having nine in a White Scars list is un fluffy WAAC bs.

40k: Thousand Sons World Eaters
30k: Imperial Fists 405th Company 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





Are quad mortars w phosphex still a problem unit?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Toofast wrote:
Are quad mortars w phosphex still a problem unit?


Not really
   
Made in gb
Dipping With Wood Stain




Sheep Loveland

stratigo wrote:
Toofast wrote:
Are quad mortars w phosphex still a problem unit?


Not really


Funnily enough, the Heresy Chat group I'm in is currently clowning on a few members who were notorious when playing HH 1.0 on just running mass pie plates of death, with absolutely zero feths given.
When HH 2.0 nerfed this crap into the ground, oh god their bitching reached critical mass until everyone started to say that at best, their 'lists' were nothing more than spam and was dreadfully unfun to play against.

40k: Thousand Sons World Eaters
30k: Imperial Fists 405th Company 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Dr. Mills wrote:
stratigo wrote:
Toofast wrote:
Are quad mortars w phosphex still a problem unit?


Not really


Funnily enough, the Heresy Chat group I'm in is currently clowning on a few members who were notorious when playing HH 1.0 on just running mass pie plates of death, with absolutely zero feths given.
When HH 2.0 nerfed this crap into the ground, oh god their bitching reached critical mass until everyone started to say that at best, their 'lists' were nothing more than spam and was dreadfully unfun to play against.


Reminds me of 40K formations of the past: Buy X unit in excessive amounts to gain Y boon. Next edition formations went the way of the dodo and all those additional units were only good for collecting dust.

Same will happen with dreadnoughts. Now everyone is eager to build a fury of the ancients list but when HH 3.0 will come along it won´t be a valuable option for sure anymore. So what do we learn? Build a sensible TAC list and you won´t be punished by future rule changes nor do you gain the infamous title of TFG in your local group.
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





I try not to do more than 3 of any kit. My 4 wraithknights taught me a lesson
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Fury of the ancients is definitely the new pub stomper list
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







I have a confession to make, I just ordered 2 Contemptors (for a full Talon with my starter box one) to go with (run after) my White Scars. My dumb Rite of War prevents me from having any Heavy Support, including the supposedly super speedy Sicaran, but I can have all the footslogging robots I want because ... honestly I think because the author straight up forgot that Dreadnoughts were a separate unit type from Vehicles.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/21 18:47:50


Posters on ignore list: 36

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Or it's because Contemptors are Elites not Heavy. You could say the same thing about Rapiers or Terminators.
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







 Gert wrote:
Or it's because Contemptors are Elites not Heavy. You could say the same thing about Rapiers or Terminators.


Those are actually forced into Reserve. Contemptors are the only slow thing that inexcplicably isn't penalized that I've noticed and it shifts Chogorian Brotherhood from a "things that can keep up with jetbikes" theme to a "we hate tanks for some reason" theme.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/21 19:35:13


Posters on ignore list: 36

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in gb
Dipping With Wood Stain




Sheep Loveland

Currently our group is working under a "gentleman's agreement" of no more than TWO dreadnaughts of any kind for a game, unless you specify you want to bring more and your aponent can adjust lists accordingly if required.

This has come about due to our Night Lords player with two contemptors and Leviathans had a dreadfully unfun game against our ultramarine player, and did not want to make anyone "go through that stupid OP gak again". Currently we are wondering how they could tone back dreads, and our best guess is certain ranged weapons gaining brutal (x) if the target has the Dreadnaught rule.

40k: Thousand Sons World Eaters
30k: Imperial Fists 405th Company 
   
Made in us
Impassive Inquisitorial Interrogator






 Dr. Mills wrote:
Currently our group is working under a "gentleman's agreement" of no more than TWO dreadnaughts of any kind for a game, unless you specify you want to bring more and your aponent can adjust lists accordingly if required.

This has come about due to our Night Lords player with two contemptors and Leviathans had a dreadfully unfun game against our ultramarine player, and did not want to make anyone "go through that stupid OP gak again". Currently we are wondering how they could tone back dreads, and our best guess is certain ranged weapons gaining brutal (x) if the target has the Dreadnaught rule.


Personally, I don't think the issue is with the other weapons, but with the dreads. I'd say either drop them to T/S 6, make them sv +3, W5 or *maybe* all three, but I'd play around with them individually before applying multiple. Do the same with the Leviathan, T/S7, Sv +3, W6.

The Main thing is that buffing other guns will have knock-on effects for other, unrelated units that now having to deal with excess brutal (To be fair, your proposal helps this, but can be clunkier and harder to remember than just dropping dread profiles alone), and hitting things like the FotA RoW simply penalizes players that want to run the RoW. Like, it's good no doubt, but it wouldn't be so oppressive if Dreads weren't so tanky.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/22 11:50:00


 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

So just to confirm, meta is dread heavy and dreads are broken. 1.0 gettin better by the day

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







Or make them not come in 3 units per FOC slot.

Posters on ignore list: 36

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






 Crablezworth wrote:
So just to confirm, meta is dread heavy and dreads are broken. 1.0 gettin better by the day

1.0 with its phosphex quad mortars you mean? And busted Mechancium and Custodes? And Court of the Crimson King? Riiiiiiight...
   
Made in gb
Mysterious Techpriest







 Crablezworth wrote:
So just to confirm, meta is dread heavy and dreads are broken. 1.0 gettin better by the day


Dreads and Gert confirmed broken.

Me too tbh; the Ordo Reductor are basically headcannon for a mechanicum player now.

Oh, and GW decided i have to buy a box of armigers for every knight if i want to field house Col'Khak (thats £400 tax for all ten)


Going to be sticking with original edition.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..  
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

 SirDonlad wrote:
 Crablezworth wrote:
So just to confirm, meta is dread heavy and dreads are broken. 1.0 gettin better by the day


Dreads and Gert confirmed broken.

Me too tbh; the Ordo Reductor are basically headcannon for a mechanicum player now.

Oh, and GW decided i have to buy a box of armigers for every knight if i want to field house Col'Khak (thats £400 tax for all ten)


Going to be sticking with original edition.


I mean just anecdotally, the amount of wip shots of 2-3 contemptors and 1-3 leviathans have been uncanny. I'd chalk it up to release being recent, but that doesn't explain the quantities players are buying, unless they're pretending not to notice they're very strong.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 SirDonlad wrote:
 Crablezworth wrote:
So just to confirm, meta is dread heavy and dreads are broken. 1.0 gettin better by the day


Dreads and Gert confirmed broken.

Me too tbh; the Ordo Reductor are basically headcannon for a mechanicum player now.

Oh, and GW decided i have to buy a box of armigers for every knight if i want to field house Col'Khak (thats £400 tax for all ten)


Going to be sticking with original edition.


All knights armies don’t deserve to play normal games
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

Making armigers their own special case unit type seemed like another veer towards 8-9th ways of doing things. Their ability to still be run down is a bit weird, the points are way off though seeing as dreadnoughts will eat their lunch. I honestly can't complain about the tax, but I also cards on the table think knights as a stand alone faction doesn't fit the game well in terms of balance. Much prefer them relegated to like the single lord of war people might run. I can see why the tax messes with that.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in gb
Mysterious Techpriest







stratigo wrote:
 SirDonlad wrote:
 Crablezworth wrote:
So just to confirm, meta is dread heavy and dreads are broken. 1.0 gettin better by the day


Dreads and Gert confirmed broken.

Me too tbh; the Ordo Reductor are basically headcannon for a mechanicum player now.

Oh, and GW decided i have to buy a box of armigers for every knight if i want to field house Col'Khak (thats £400 tax for all ten)


Going to be sticking with original edition.


All knights armies don’t deserve to play normal games


Worth noting that i never had to ask anyone for 30k games using my knights; every game i played with them my opponent wanted a game against them.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..  
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Or make them not come in 3 units per FOC slot.

Possibly. I don't think that dreadnoughts are a problem, but lots of dreadnoughts can be, as it's a skew list. Maybe a limit based on points? Similar to LoWs, Primarchs, and units with Master of the Legion?
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

 SirDonlad wrote:
stratigo wrote:
 SirDonlad wrote:
 Crablezworth wrote:
So just to confirm, meta is dread heavy and dreads are broken. 1.0 gettin better by the day


Dreads and Gert confirmed broken.

Me too tbh; the Ordo Reductor are basically headcannon for a mechanicum player now.

Oh, and GW decided i have to buy a box of armigers for every knight if i want to field house Col'Khak (thats £400 tax for all ten)


Going to be sticking with original edition.


All knights armies don’t deserve to play normal games


Worth noting that i never had to ask anyone for 30k games using my knights; every game i played with them my opponent wanted a game against them.


Fair point, I would only counter that being able to at least make a list knowing you're facing them would do a lot of warm people to the concept. That wasn't and hasn't been the case at least here, historically.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Or make them not come in 3 units per FOC slot.

Possibly. I don't think that dreadnoughts are a problem, but lots of dreadnoughts can be, as it's a skew list. Maybe a limit based on points? Similar to LoWs, Primarchs, and units with Master of the Legion?


I think 1-2. probably not the end of the world, but the list with 4-5, could see how that'd be frustrating, especially if the rest of the list is terminator heavy.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/22 18:41:08


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Possibly. I don't think that dreadnoughts are a problem, but lots of dreadnoughts can be, as it's a skew list. Maybe a limit based on points? Similar to LoWs, Primarchs, and units with Master of the Legion?

Honestly, I'm chalking a lot of the complaints up to:
1 - Getting used to the new system compared to either HH 1 or 9th.
2 - Not being able to get the things to kill Dreads because it's not in stock or isn't out yet.
I'd say 2 is the bigger issue right now because the cost factor is now massively mitigated for getting the unit people are having trouble beating and the things to resolve the issue are still largely FW.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Gert wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Possibly. I don't think that dreadnoughts are a problem, but lots of dreadnoughts can be, as it's a skew list. Maybe a limit based on points? Similar to LoWs, Primarchs, and units with Master of the Legion?

Honestly, I'm chalking a lot of the complaints up to:
1 - Getting used to the new system compared to either HH 1 or 9th.
2 - Not being able to get the things to kill Dreads because it's not in stock or isn't out yet.
I'd say 2 is the bigger issue right now because the cost factor is now massively mitigated for getting the unit people are having trouble beating and the things to resolve the issue are still largely FW.

Yeah, I can see that:
1: HH2.0 leans a lot towards suppressing units, instead of outright destroying them, which is a bit different for many people (especially if they're coming from 9th). However......
2: Most of the stuff capable of efficiently suppressing, let alone killing, dreadnoughts is still in resin, and most of it is out of stock, or doesn't have rules available yet (North America release for Liber Mechanicum when?). Might help once those plastic Predators hit the table with some Neutron Blasters (those were one of the weapons in the kit, right?).
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Autocannons aren't available yet either. We're definitely in the growing pains stage of the game and a lot of the issues are very much based around not being able to buy stuff.
   
Made in gb
Mysterious Techpriest







If only there were some way of playing with a model that doesn't have the right armament physically represented.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..  
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Lots of people don't like to proxy or play with unbuilt models though.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

 SirDonlad wrote:
If only there were some way of playing with a model that doesn't have the right armament physically represented.


It's a fair criticism tho, we've already had one thread complaining about people dropping out because of the lag in releases and it was a fair point, I would have thought the weapons packs would be the first things released along side the starter.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in gb
Mysterious Techpriest







i think explaining why your dreadnought army is missing all its arms is a fitting dunk on GW and not a mark of shame for the player.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..  
   
 
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