Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

They'd have sold out almost regardless of what they put in the box.

Because the interest was there. GW made a ton of the dominion boxs for AoS and they were so limited that they are at store in my area even now.

 Arbitrator wrote:
They could have the worst rules ever written and I suspect the W+ batrep would ensure they won every game.

Yea I wouldn't put much faith into those batreps considering how many times in the past they've even gotten rules wrong. It's just "hey look what this army has and look what it can do". It's not about a good player using a tuned list trying to win.

In my opinion, it's hard to beat the combination of nostalgia for something previously unavailable and something truly new-and-shiny for folks.

I've got zero interest in this iteration of Space Dwarves that seem to have no connection at all to my beloved Squats, but also have no problem at all seeing why lots of folks would feel differently and snatch this set up.

Felt it worth mentioning that Wayland have put them back up for pre order.

Wrong thread, nvm.

Votann are getting banned from most tournaments in Germany. If you are planning to attend a tournament in Germany with Votann, check with your TO's, if Votann are allowed. Most likely they are not.

The codex has been tested thoroughly the last 6 weeks and it needs a nerf. More information is available on the Target Priority Discord.

I've seen this message (thread) on reddit/competitive).
So ''Germany squats Squats''.
Makes all buyers of the starter set in Germany a bit frustrated.

SamusDrake wrote:
Felt it worth mentioning that Wayland have put them back up for pre order.

Darksphere and Element too, it seems. And indeed GW.

Can we put the conspiracy theories to bed now?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Can we put the conspiracy theories to bed now?

We can have the same discussion the other way: Why didn't they sell out?

a_typical_hero wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Can we put the conspiracy theories to bed now?

We can have the same discussion the other way: Why didn't they sell out?

Oh dear.

a_typical_hero wrote:
We can have the same discussion the other way: Why didn't they sell out?

Well, because they're an insult to Squat players of course! I mean, seriously, who would have'em?

SamusDrake wrote:

a_typical_hero wrote:
We can have the same discussion the other way: Why didn't they sell out?

Well, because they're an insult to Squat players of course! I mean, seriously, who would have'em?

They aren't the Squats I've been waiting for, true.
But as their own thing? I like enough of the models I've seen. And over time more models will likely come along.

So there's room in my collection for another force.

They just won't share the same line as Squats when I list all the armies I have.
I'd hoped it'd be:
*Squats/Votaan
Instead it'll be:
*Squats
*Votaan

a mix of:

People really like the new design
Nostalgia... Finally some Squats in 40K again
It's new and shiny... What else do we need?

I do not believe the competitive 40k scene (ie, the multiple tourney going, "in it to win it" element), visible though it is, is able to generate more sales than the much larger casual scene can, and a mix of "shiney" and "Nostalgia" would be driving those sales.

not denying the existence of meta chasers buying the Hot New Thing, or that these guys seem rather powerful, mind. Im just not convinced the total 40k sales trends of any new army are driven by those meta chasers.

I think its a combination of all the points.

People being keen coz its new and shiny
People buying to make a profit on selling individual bits and units
GW not taking the risk of over production and being left with naff stock (although literary anyone could have told them this would sell out)

Several things at play here.

-Bringing back a faction from the old days
-Questionable balance on the new faction
-Scalpers hoping to make a quick buck
-Good looking models

Plus artificial scarcity never hurts GW

 wuestenfux wrote:

I've seen this message (thread) on reddit/competitive).
So ''Germany squats Squats''.
Makes all buyers of the starter set in Germany a bit frustrated.

They should be frustrated with GW.

Because GW markets the crap out of every new boxed set. When my YT, Twitter and Insta feeds are choked with content from creators that were sent free models/sets, it becomes obvious why they dominate the market.
I mean, I saw at least three different schemes for the squats days before release, and I can’t even count how many HH boxed sets I saw.
If GW knows how to do anything, it’s market their products.
And the modern day way to market a niche product is to pass it out to content creators and influencers. I don’t see enough of this from other companies.

Hecaton wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

I've seen this message (thread) on reddit/competitive).
So ''Germany squats Squats''.
Makes all buyers of the starter set in Germany a bit frustrated.

They should be frustrated with GW.

Why? GW hasn't banned anything out of fear of a challenge.

Hecaton wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

I've seen this message (thread) on reddit/competitive).
So ''Germany squats Squats''.
Makes all buyers of the starter set in Germany a bit frustrated.

They should be frustrated with GW.

Makes no sense, other more powerful and more meta impacting armies came to 9th ed and there was never a reaction like that, especialy not from tournament orgenisers. The "problem" LoV players have is not a problem with GW. It is people being donkey-caves, and not carrying about factions they do not play. But hey, I am the one who lives in a post apocalyptic hellhole right? Guess how many tournament orgs want to ban the use of any army here or how popular is the notion of not playing against people with a specific army?

 Dysartes wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

I've seen this message (thread) on reddit/competitive).
So ''Germany squats Squats''.
Makes all buyers of the starter set in Germany a bit frustrated.

They should be frustrated with GW.

Why? GW hasn't banned anything out of fear of a challenge.

Because the ban is a result of GW's incompetence at balancing the game.

 Dysartes wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

I've seen this message (thread) on reddit/competitive).
So ''Germany squats Squats''.
Makes all buyers of the starter set in Germany a bit frustrated.

They should be frustrated with GW.

Why? GW hasn't banned anything out of fear of a challenge.

GW made rules that were objectively worth banning.

Tournament gameplay should be fair. Votann make the game unfair. Wanting your opponent in a game to have an unfair advantage shows a lack of self-respect, not courage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

I've seen this message (thread) on reddit/competitive).
So ''Germany squats Squats''.
Makes all buyers of the starter set in Germany a bit frustrated.

They should be frustrated with GW.

Makes no sense, other more powerful and more meta impacting armies came to 9th ed and there was never a reaction like that, especialy not from tournament orgenisers. The "problem" LoV players have is not a problem with GW. It is people being donkey-caves, and not carrying about factions they do not play. But hey, I am the one who lives in a post apocalyptic hellhole right? Guess how many tournament orgs want to ban the use of any army here or how popular is the notion of not playing against people with a specific army?

No. The math for Votann indicates they're worse than these supposedly more powerful codexes.

Now is a great time to start banning problem codexes. I hope the practice continues.

It's not being an donkey-cave to want a fair game; it's instead being an donkey-cave to want an unfair advantage.

Karol wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

I've seen this message (thread) on reddit/competitive).
So ''Germany squats Squats''.
Makes all buyers of the starter set in Germany a bit frustrated.

They should be frustrated with GW.

Makes no sense, other more powerful and more meta impacting armies came to 9th ed and there was never a reaction like that, especialy not from tournament orgenisers. The "problem" LoV players have is not a problem with GW. It is people being donkey-caves, and not carrying about factions they do not play. But hey, I am the one who lives in a post apocalyptic hellhole right? Guess how many tournament orgs want to ban the use of any army here or how popular is the notion of not playing against people with a specific army?

So the entire competitive side of 40k is just supposed to give everyone a pass and assume that no one is a donkey cave? (BTW that has to be the dumbest term ever created, what ever happened to simple terms like unsportsmanlike player, or "That guy") 40k as a competitive hobby is modeled (Heh) around the simple idea that a skilled player will always have a better game than an unskilled player. Now the "balance" of certain codecies throw that out the window obviously. The BEST player in the world with current rules and a full 2k Knights List, isn't going to beat a less skilled player with 2k LoV, no matter how many times you run it. LoV, has literally broken the game in their current form as shown. It will result in players being shunned, ala Tau of 6-7th or GK . No one wanted to play a competitive game against someone who was essentially using the balance equivalent of weighted dice. OR cheating.

"Donkey cave" is Dakka's filter for two other similes when combined making a (mild) swear word.

It's a "new" faction, of course it will draw attention and buyers. The fact that it apparently is very strong will just make people even more inclined to buy them, then add some nostalgia and voila.

Voted "It's new and shiny... What else do we need" but there are several reasons for their popularity.

Catulle wrote:
Because somewhere, Somebody is Doing It Wrong. Unlike me, a savant who understands that all things GW are gak. Now praise my bold truth-telling, while I continue spewing my venom over every thread on this site.

- A Very Edgy Dakkanaut, probably

Because somewhere, Somebody is Complaining About GW. Unlike me, a savant who understands that all things GW are perfect in all regards always. Now praise my bold truth-telling, while I continue spewing my venom over every thread on this site.

- A Very Edgy GW Cultist, probably

Tresson wrote:

Catulle wrote:
Because somewhere, Somebody is Doing It Wrong. Unlike me, a savant who understands that all things GW are gak. Now praise my bold truth-telling, while I continue spewing my venom over every thread on this site.

- A Very Edgy Dakkanaut, probably

Because somewhere, Somebody is Complaining About GW. Unlike me, a savant who understands that all things GW are perfect in all regards always. Now praise my bold truth-telling, while I continue spewing my venom over every thread on this site.

- A Very Edgy GW Cultist, probably

I.... can't tell if you're agreeing or not?

SKR.HH wrote:
Well... at least in Germany the box set for the League of Votan sold out. Not immediately but at least during the course of the day. Which made me wondering once again what is the underlying reason. I thought about the possible reasons in particular with the discussions over the last few days (and actually months) and would like to see your take on it.

So what do you think is the (main) reason the the box sold out?

(Goes without saying: please stay civil)

Because GW played the community like a fiddle. They generated a controversy, promised "OP" units and quickly pretended to listen to fan feedback and nerf the models. Their only mistake was how quick and thorough the last part was - almost like it was planned.

I mean perhaps this was all inadvertent, but clever marketing either way and likely to be memorized for future releases. I really just wanted to play against an OP faction because I get so bored without an actual challenge. Oh my First World problems....

Asenion wrote:

SKR.HH wrote:
Well... at least in Germany the box set for the League of Votan sold out. Not immediately but at least during the course of the day. Which made me wondering once again what is the underlying reason. I thought about the possible reasons in particular with the discussions over the last few days (and actually months) and would like to see your take on it.

So what do you think is the (main) reason the the box sold out?

(Goes without saying: please stay civil)

Because GW played the community like a fiddle. They generated a controversy, promised "OP" units and quickly pretended to listen to fan feedback and nerf the models. Their only mistake was how quick and thorough the last part was - almost like it was planned.

I mean perhaps this was all inadvertent, but clever marketing either way and likely to be memorized for future releases. I really just wanted to play against an OP faction because I get so bored without an actual challenge. Oh my First World problems....

Then just let your LoV opponent use their original codex, with none of the errata added today. Just because the errata exists, it doesn't mean that you have to use it.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Asenion wrote:

SKR.HH wrote:
Well... at least in Germany the box set for the League of Votan sold out. Not immediately but at least during the course of the day. Which made me wondering once again what is the underlying reason. I thought about the possible reasons in particular with the discussions over the last few days (and actually months) and would like to see your take on it.

So what do you think is the (main) reason the the box sold out?

(Goes without saying: please stay civil)

Because GW played the community like a fiddle. They generated a controversy, promised "OP" units and quickly pretended to listen to fan feedback and nerf the models. Their only mistake was how quick and thorough the last part was - almost like it was planned.

I mean perhaps this was all inadvertent, but clever marketing either way and likely to be memorized for future releases. I really just wanted to play against an OP faction because I get so bored without an actual challenge. Oh my First World problems....

Then just let your LoV opponent use their original codex, with none of the errata added today. Just because the errata exists, it doesn't mean that you have to use it.

It's not the same. It's more fun when everyone else is tossing their hands up and whining in a panic and you just casually walk in and solve a problem that had them stumped and do so easily. Now that GW has solved the problem for them, it's kind of pointless. Lackluster at the very least.

TBH I was hoping to see people actually try to solve the problem in creative ways instead of just running to the authorities. I've seen it in other strategy games where a tactic or unit is considered OP and people come up with counters to the point where the once "OP" strategy is considered under-powered. This even happens in real conflict like WW2 where the Blitz was considered unbeatable at the start only to become folly as the Soviets countered adeptly with defense in depth tactics. Actual strategic thinking from actual strategic minded players. Alas, I guess I just have to be content with what other player's I do have to work with.

Asenion wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Asenion wrote:

SKR.HH wrote:
Well... at least in Germany the box set for the League of Votan sold out. Not immediately but at least during the course of the day. Which made me wondering once again what is the underlying reason. I thought about the possible reasons in particular with the discussions over the last few days (and actually months) and would like to see your take on it.

So what do you think is the (main) reason the the box sold out?

(Goes without saying: please stay civil)

Because GW played the community like a fiddle. They generated a controversy, promised "OP" units and quickly pretended to listen to fan feedback and nerf the models. Their only mistake was how quick and thorough the last part was - almost like it was planned.

I mean perhaps this was all inadvertent, but clever marketing either way and likely to be memorized for future releases. I really just wanted to play against an OP faction because I get so bored without an actual challenge. Oh my First World problems....

Then just let your LoV opponent use their original codex, with none of the errata added today. Just because the errata exists, it doesn't mean that you have to use it.

It's not the same. It's more fun when everyone else is tossing their hands up and whining in a panic and you just casually walk in and solve a problem that had them stumped and do so easily. Now that GW has solved the problem for them, it's kind of pointless. Lackluster at the very least.

TBH I was hoping to see people actually try to solve the problem in creative ways instead of just running to the authorities. I've seen it in other strategy games where a tactic or unit is considered OP and people come up with counters to the point where the once "OP" strategy is considered under-powered. This even happens in real conflict like WW2 where the Blitz was considered unbeatable at the start only to become folly as the Soviets countered adeptly with defense in depth tactics. Actual strategic thinking from actual strategic minded players. Alas, I guess I just have to be content with what other player's I do have to work with.

It's not pointless at all.
You get to demonstrate to others that you can solve the problem via real solutions, not by throwing a tantrum like a child.