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Aash wrote: Today’s tarot card is the fool inversed. Something about “a change of spirit from fury to serenity” so possibly some sort of hint of Angron getting defeated?
The wand the Fool is holding is topped with a Tau Ethereal honor blade like Aun'shi's.
The previous card was the Young Warrior with possible reference to Farsight, and how a light guttering in the black may "scourge the Red Tide or drown beneath its waves".
My take on this is Farsight somehow gets involved and gets tempted by Khorne or falls temporarily into a blind rage perhaps due to the Murder Curse. Then under the influence of an honour blade wielding Ethereal, perhaps Aun'shi, the fury is lifted and exchanged for serenity, and then Farsight goes on to do whatever is needed for the plot which may mean thwarting Angron/Vashtorr/Chaos in general,
Why would Farsight need an Ethereal to avoid that influence?
That's what the blade and the hexagrammatic wards let the Enclaves do when they encountered a Bloodthirster early on.
I'd lean more towards an Ethereal being influenced than Farsight. Would explain the commentary a bit better for the Fool card.
I was kind of confused by this reading, but then it hit me... Burning Stars... The Damocles Gulf!
If I were Abaddon and I saw this I would be like...Ok I give up. Not trying anymore.
Come to think of it, that might be a far more interesting story. Abaddon is tired of having his 1000 year plans foiled again and again so he just gives up and takes a vacation to some place in the Eye of Terror. Then the other chaos primarchs have to convince him to get back in the game.
"Iz got a plan. We line up. Yell Waaagh, den krump them in the face. Den when we're done, we might yell Waagh one more time." Warboss Gutstompa
Tsagualsa wrote: Back in the day almost every issue of WD had 'DLC', did not do any harm.
The amount of WD DLC was one of the biggest complaints during 3rd Ed.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: As a Daemon Prince, and how will affects warp stuff, I’m OK with it.
Yeah, but there's more than point where he seems to just want to give and peacefully into oblivion - and then Khorne pokes the Nails. As someone who is NOT a fan of Khorne, I just found the whole thing boring. Even if I were a fan, I'd find it hard to root for a guy who succeeds despite himself (between the number of times he gets blasted and the times he doesn't care).
Even the Incredible Hulk manages to give a crap once in a while...
She/Her
"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln
Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: It feeds into the tragedy of Angron though. Created and “born” a Primarch, he has never known freedom.
He lead the slave revolt on Nuceria, and was fully willing to die in dedication to that cause, and alongside his fellow Gladiators.
The Emperor abducted him, and became essentially just another slave master to Angron.
He rebels against The Emperor…and becomes slave to Khorne instead.
Even his Daemonhood and immortality was forced upon him.
He wants freedom. He wants an end to his tortured existence. And everyone who has ever called them self his master has refused it.
For me, that takes what could be a very one dimensional character and gives them interesting depth.
All that is true...and yet the story itself in Arks of Omen for Angron still gets repetitive and boring.
It still essentially he is so angry and wants to die but won't kill himself. When he does seemingly get his wish multiple times....he is so angry he won't let go and reforms himself. How he succeeds in the end is sitll a variation of charging at the enemy and being so angry he won't die (plus having infinite respawns helps).
For me the infinite respawns removes all narrative tension as it removes all risk and consequences to any of Angron's actions, no matter how dumb they might be. Why care about tactics after all if you can just run (or fly/drop) at the enemy, secure in the knowledge that if you get caught in even something like an anti-orbital laser's shot (which happens in the story), you can reform within seconds none the worse for wear?
Also there is little reason given for why Angron can respawn so quickly when after Armageddon it took him 100 years and 1 day, beyond the theory that maybe there is so much warp energy spilling from the Rift that it allows this. Of course, then why don't Magnus and Mortarion have this ability? The reason is purely a game reason, given that Angron has only melee.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2023/02/26 12:23:37
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: But is it truly his own anger, or Khorne and the Nails forcing him ever onward?
Either way, it creates a one dimensional character that is essentially has no agency or responsibility for their actions. He might as well be an automaton.
Indeed, lack of thought and consciousness is a theme repeated multiple times in the World Eaters Codex. It seems the desired end state for a truly dedicated Khorne worshipper is unconsciousness. Multiple Khorne POV characters in the Codex have essentially blackouts and gaps in their memory where they fought and killed but have no memory of what they did or how they got to where they were. It is almost Zen-like and the Sages of Slaughter section even describes how they aim for an endless state of flow. An eternal state of the present.
The problem about writing about such characters is that they are essentially one note characters, with their fragmented memory and consciousness, with any dregs of thought and identity essentially passengers in their own body. Now maybe you could do stories about Khorne characters that are not so fallen but then these characters probably end up as fodder for those that have fallen that far.
However for me the bit about Angron's story that irks me the most is the infinite respawning. It then becomes like playing a computer game on God mode. Angron can't lose. No suspense or tension then. Would the Grey Knights have been able to banish him longer or would he have popped back a few seconds later?
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2023/02/19 20:32:30
Angron is akin to a force of nature now. Even The Conqueror is simply a means to an end, a reliable way for Angron to get from A to B.
The World Eaters force involved was the largest seen since its de facto dissolution as a Legion. Yet…Angron explicitly didn’t care. He was there to destroy the Choral Engine. If others came along for the ride it was no concern of his.
We also have a pretty decent tradition of Khorne not allowing his favourite toys to die. Kharn is one, Valkia is another.
I do get why others won’t like it, so genuinely respectfully I think we’ll just have to Agree to Disagree
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Angron is akin to a force of nature now. Even The Conqueror is simply a means to an end, a reliable way for Angron to get from A to B.
The World Eaters force involved was the largest seen since its de facto dissolution as a Legion. Yet…Angron explicitly didn’t care. He was there to destroy the Choral Engine. If others came along for the ride it was no concern of his.
We also have a pretty decent tradition of Khorne not allowing his favourite toys to die. Kharn is one, Valkia is another.
I do get why others won’t like it, so genuinely respectfully I think we’ll just have to Agree to Disagree
Khorne might not allow some of his favorite toys to die, but I don't think it has ever gotten this far to where they are resurrecting within seconds of their death. Kharn was in a coma for a significant time. Also Kharn still had a body whereas Angron in Arks of Omens was literally atomized at least once, and torn to shreds multiple times.
I generally am for factional balance in the sense that I don't want any faction to have a seemingly guaranteed "I win" button. Every faction should have fallibility and potential meaningful failure risk. Short of direct Emperor intervention, I don't see how that exists any more for Angron.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/19 20:38:06
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: With Angron, he himself doesn’t have a plan. And we’re shown he cares not one joy what Abaddon wants.
His actions here benefitted Abaddon and Vashtorr purely because he wanted to destroy the Choral Engine.
That done? Who knows where he’ll turn up next. And it was solely his outrage at the Choral Engine that kept him going this time.
Doesn't matter if he hasn't got a plan though. Khorne might have. And even without plan he can just rampage through entire imperium alone sinc you can't get rid of him for any sane time.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: With Angron, he himself doesn’t have a plan. And we’re shown he cares not one joy what Abaddon wants.
His actions here benefitted Abaddon and Vashtorr purely because he wanted to destroy the Choral Engine.
That done? Who knows where he’ll turn up next. And it was solely his outrage at the Choral Engine that kept him going this time.
Doesn't matter if he hasn't got a plan though. Khorne might have. And even without plan he can just rampage through entire imperium alone sinc you can't get rid of him for any sane time.
Yes that last bit is the key point. It doesn't show Angron to be strong, skilled, or brave if he has infinite respawning. Throw him on Terra and he would be able to chop his way to the Emperor through sheer attrition. An unstoppable antagonist that resurrects in seconds makes it futile for any other character in the background to do anything. That doesn't allow for many interesting stories for other characters.
At least before on Armageddon, it was shown that Angron had limitations. He had to stop to build monuments and sacrifice in order to keep sufficient warp energy to sustain his daemonic army and himself. He in the end still fell to 100 Grey Knights, demonstrating that no matter how powerful an individual daemon Primarch might be, sufficient skill and sacrifice could still defeat them. For 100 years and a day, Angron then could not manifest and even when that passed, he didn't just pop back onto Armageddon, so that battle and victory had some significance and lasting effect.
Even within the Arks of Omen story, it was said that Angron would take 8 days 8 hours etc... before manifesting again, yet once the action started it was seconds, so they aren't even internally consistent. (Yes, I know that source was an in character source and therefore could be wrong about Angron but still...)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/02/20 06:30:20
Seems a bit silly. Hopefully they'll ay least say it was because he was just so driven for this story or something and normal state of affairs resume. Wont save this story from the silliness but may save future ones
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: With Angron, he himself doesn’t have a plan. And we’re shown he cares not one joy what Abaddon wants.
His actions here benefitted Abaddon and Vashtorr purely because he wanted to destroy the Choral Engine.
That done? Who knows where he’ll turn up next. And it was solely his outrage at the Choral Engine that kept him going this time.
Doesn't matter if he hasn't got a plan though. Khorne might have. And even without plan he can just rampage through entire imperium alone sinc you can't get rid of him for any sane time.
Yeah, let's not forget Khorne cheating - AGAIN.
...or the Tzeentch guys being made to look like fools - AGAIN.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/20 10:26:01
She/Her
"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln
Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.
It's a no-win situation for GWIMO.
Either Angron wins and doesn't get banished then people complain that it's unfair cos he was too OP in the story, or Angron loses and a different set of people complain because Angron is extremely powerful but somehow can't even win in his debut new model story. God forbid a stalemate happens because that would just annoy everyone.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
...or the Tzeentch guys being made to look like fools - AGAIN.
to be fair, the Tzeentchian types getting played is a reoccouring theme of Tzeentch. part of his "plans within plans" schtick. Tzeentch is always playing his pawns against his other pawns, because he finds it fun and is hopelessly addicted to scheming, so schemes against himself.
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
Gert wrote: It's a no-win situation for GWIMO.
Either Angron wins and doesn't get banished then people complain that it's unfair cos he was too OP in the story, or Angron loses and a different set of people complain because Angron is extremely powerful but somehow can't even win in his debut new model story. God forbid a stalemate happens because that would just annoy everyone.
I'm fine with Angron winning, the issue is that he won partly by being an insta-respawning unkillable force. The issue is the lack of potential consequences, not whether those consequences actually happened. There isn't any tension if he can be melted by an orbital strike then just keep going like nothing happened.
It would have been fine if he, well, hadn't been hit by an orbital strike...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/20 18:44:34
ChargerIIC wrote: If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
I wouldn't have minded it as much if there were more limitations on his respawning, like if say Angron were to be limited to 8 respawns for a given campaign/battle (8 because Khorne's number since GW was already going on about that). That way Angron would still have had to show some consideration for the enemy's actions and risk potential failure. Maybe he could have been on his last life when he finally made it to the Choral Engine.
Gert wrote: It's a no-win situation for GWIMO.
Either Angron wins and doesn't get banished then people complain that it's unfair cos he was too OP in the story, or Angron loses and a different set of people complain because Angron is extremely powerful but somehow can't even win in his debut new model story. God forbid a stalemate happens because that would just annoy everyone.
So now we got op angron that will singlehandedly kill of imperium, orks, tyranids, necrons and nothing anybody can do about it.
Gert wrote: It's a no-win situation for GWIMO.
Either Angron wins and doesn't get banished then people complain that it's unfair cos he was too OP in the story, or Angron loses and a different set of people complain because Angron is extremely powerful but somehow can't even win in his debut new model story. God forbid a stalemate happens because that would just annoy everyone.
I'm fine with Angron winning, the issue is that he won partly by being an insta-respawning unkillable force. The issue is the lack of potential consequences, not whether those consequences actually happened. There isn't any tension if he can be melted by an orbital strike then just keep going like nothing happened.
It would have been fine if he, well, hadn't been hit by an orbital strike...
Have to kill him in melee, silly!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/21 04:47:14
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts 
Watch Company Rho 1650pts
