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 LunarSol wrote:
Sad you missed out on Devil May Cry. I feel like that's the best of their Capcom board games, though the boss battles are hugely disappointing compared to what they accomplished with Dark Souls.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cyel wrote:
Oh, I wish the game was as streamlined as advertised. The amount of exceptions, corner cases, unintuitive interactions and clarifications just for unit movement ( which was supposed to be simplified) takes as much space as rules for some full board games.

I get mail notifications from the current PP forum and 90% of topics seem to be rules questions...

It's streamlined in play but reuses too much Mk3 rules to be streamlined in text. The actual experience of playing the game is significantly snappier, but the core rulebook could be cleaned up significantly.

I have a couple of friends who own it, but I don't think they have played it yet.

 aphyon wrote:
the aesthetic is no longer black powder/steam tech (hell cygnar has rail guns).

A huge part of this is the heavy NMM pain schemes they went with for the studio models. The game looks far more familiar in person with models painted with less high contrast color schemes and aggressive highlights. Orgoth being the most notable in that regard, looking far better with simple metallics. It's also pretty clear that they've pulled back from that a bit. Almost every release outside the first wave has added more in line with the old aesthetic. Orgoth getting monstrosities and doom reiver blades, Cygnar going a little more (Nikola) Tesla and the newer factions in general leaning away from that overly shiny look that got pushed in the first wave of releases.

The painting really did change quite a bit. I was especially surprised that they started having their studio painter do NMM since they'd been pretty against it for quite some time.


I do feel that after they started doing Riot Quest and Mini Crate stuff, they kind of adopted that over the top style to Warmachine/Hordes minis.

I don't feel like the new minis come from a different setting (and I am rather fond of the Pirate Trollbloods)

 LunarSol wrote:

 aphyon wrote:
the aesthetic is no longer black powder/steam tech (hell cygnar has rail guns).

A huge part of this is the heavy NMM pain schemes they went with for the studio models. The game looks far more familiar in person with models painted with less high contrast color schemes and aggressive highlights. Orgoth being the most notable in that regard, looking far better with simple metallics. It's also pretty clear that they've pulled back from that a bit. Almost every release outside the first wave has added more in line with the old aesthetic. Orgoth getting monstrosities and doom reiver blades, Cygnar going a little more (Nikola) Tesla and the newer factions in general leaning away from that overly shiny look that got pushed in the first wave of releases.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the paint jobs. the represented tech level is completely different.

These are the same named models-man o war suppressor tank solo
the first one is steam tech with pepperbox black powder cannons.



the second one is the new MKIV-it looks more at home in infinity with belt fed mini-guns-



A cygnar example- both are the "sharp shooter" model.





One is not like the other.

Wow! That is a glaringly sharp contrast in styles.

 bbb wrote:
Wow! That is a glaringly sharp contrast in styles.

It's not as much as you'd think, especially since the chosen examples for Cygnar are two wildly different factions.

The Trenchers were an aesthetic that's about to be coming back with the Gravediggers Army, the Sharpshooter model shown there is from the army associated with the more technologically inclined Storm Knight stuff.

 aphyon wrote:

It has absolutely nothing to do with the paint jobs. the represented tech level is completely different.

These are the same named models-man o war suppressor tank solo
the first one is steam tech with pepperbox black powder cannons.



the second one is the new MKIV-it looks more at home in infinity with belt fed mini-guns-



A cygnar example- both are the "sharp shooter" model.





One is not like the other.

Cygnar had mini guns like that since the start of Mk2.

And the Storm tech line has always been more high tech than the trencher line. At least compare the new Storm Sharpshooter to the old Storm Gunner he's replacing:

It's also not *really* Steampunk, more.. Dieselpunk or TekMagik (but only certain things) ... something along that line.

Aesthetics are always gonna be subjective, but I do see a style difference between the old and new models.

 Da Boss wrote:
Aesthetics are always gonna be subjective, but I do see a style difference between the old and new models.

There's absolutely a modernization to the newer armies. There's about a decade timeskip between Mk3 and Mk4 and some of that is entirely intentional. It's just not as extreme as people make it out to be; particularly when you see the models on the table.

I think they look like they're part of the same world, for sure. And I could tell the Jack was Khador from lots of the details. But I can see why the Cygnar model was chosen, it looks properly Sci Fi to me.

 Da Boss wrote:
I think they look like they're part of the same world, for sure. And I could tell the Jack was Khador from lots of the details. But I can see why the Cygnar model was chosen, it looks properly Sci Fi to me.

Yeah, its easily the most over the top of the line and I thought they went a little far with Storm Legion myself, particularly with glowy bits in the armor. Part of the whiplash definitely comes from Cygnar's Storm tech not being particularly competitive in the past though. You weren't likely to see this style on the table very often and then they pushed it to the forefront with the new edition.

And this is the problem SFG has - the purchase would have been the perfect time to roll back the aesthetic to actual steampunk rather than this rubbish they have in mk4. But they’ve hamstrung themselves to this “partnership” and now have to lie in the bed that PP have already made, that’s already been released to a resounding “meh”.

What has SFG done before buying PP?

 sing your life wrote:
What has SFG done before buying PP?

SFG rose to prominence on the back of Guild Ball, a skirmish game that was sort of combined football/soccer with mafia knifefights that blew up in popularity (and for good reason. It was easy to get into, had a good depth of rules depending on which Guild you played as, and had an ongoing story that didn't involve world-changing events. It had a very enthusiastic community). They used this popularity to pivot to a series of mostly very mediocre (some downright poor) but extremely popular licensed boardgames. Their next "big" game was Godtear, which I think they hoped would take off like Guild Ball but never did. They then decided to abandon Guild Ball, blaming their playerbase in the process.

I think they've continued to chug along thanks to their boardgame releases since then. They've also re-released Guild Ball, realizing they can probably milk some more cash out of the community who kept it alive and new players who weren't burnt in the first place.

 sing your life wrote:
What has SFG done before buying PP?

A lot of licensed Kickstarter boardgames such as Resident Evil, Resident Evil 2, Resident Evil 3, Horizon Zero Dawn, Horizon Forbidden West, Monster Hunter, Elden Ring, Dark Souls, Devil May Cry.

Also D&D encounter sets and the Guild Ball Game.

MaxT wrote:
And this is the problem SFG has - the purchase would have been the perfect time to roll back the aesthetic to actual steampunk rather than this rubbish they have in mk4. But they’ve hamstrung themselves to this “partnership” and now have to lie in the bed that PP have already made, that’s already been released to a resounding “meh”.

Actually I don't agree with that. I think if they are going to keep going then I'd stick with MKIV. It's too soon for a MKV and way too soon to start re-doing models that they are already releasing.
Warmachaine/Hordes at least needs some stability to have a change to stabilize its current market and grow.

Now perhaps the partnership might allow them to bring back classic armies for sale or push forward releasing new reimaginings of older factions that don't yet have an army or which can be subfactions of current ones that embody classic design elements. Ergo there are ways to do it without rocking the boat too much.




The Resounding "Meh" to worry situation is valid. It's a shame they couldn't time the news to some big release event or something loud they could talk about in public to really energise people; but it might also be that PP needed this partnership quick to prevent total collapse or dwindling resources. So it might be there just wasn't time to really build up for some big "hey we joined up and look at this cool stuff we are doing"

There's a new PP kickstarter due to launch by the end of the month 'The Iron Kingdoms RPG Kickstarter for Strangelight Workshop' which Steamforged seems to be planning to carry on with

the last RPG book pulled in just under $250,000 be interesting to see if the advertise it to all their previous backers as well as PPs

Even if I were interested I would wait for retail.

 Overread wrote:

Now perhaps the partnership might allow them to bring back classic armies for sale or push forward releasing new reimaginings of older factions that don't yet have an army or which can be subfactions of current ones that embody classic design elements. Ergo there are ways to do it without rocking the boat too much.

Bringing back old armies really isn't an option. The vast majority of the line was either PVC kits that they don't have the molds for anymore or metals that aren't a realistic medium anymore. Basically, everything would need a degree of resculpting on some level, which is effectively what a lot of the Mk4 armies are accomplishing while streamlining a lot of the bloat and implementing the rather fantastic modular jack and beast designs.

They're definitely looking to bring back classic aesthetics though. Cryx is a very similar to its old style and driven heavily by popular demand. Trenchers are another classic return and its very likely Gun Mages will show up shortly along with it. The second Khador army plans look to be where we're going to see something similar to either Circle or Grymkin. It's just going to take time.

Modular Jacks was a great idea and they even have magnet packs in the Starter Army Boxes.

I'm surprised GW haven't seen this, added magnets and instructions, then raise the prices 30%, lol

 TalonZahn wrote:
Modular Jacks was a great idea and they even have magnet packs in the Starter Army Boxes.

I'm surprised GW haven't seen this, added magnets and instructions, then raise the prices 30%, lol

I believe PP had to stop putting magnets in the packs at some stage. I seem to recall some shipping restrictions came into play that complicated international shipments and might have raised shipping prices domestically?
But its only a vague recollection that something like that happened.


GW on the other hand would rather you buy two modular kits and glued them together. They've been very sparring with magnets - in fact I think the only models they've ever done with them in mind were the big titans for AT. Which as a specialist game appears to get a tiny bit more leeway in such matters compared to the big giants like 40K and AoS

 Overread wrote:

I believe PP had to stop putting magnets in the packs at some stage. I seem to recall some shipping restrictions came into play that complicated international shipments and might have raised shipping prices domestically?
But its only a vague recollection that something like that happened.

Shipping loose magnets has problems in certain states and countries so they had to take them out of the boxes themselves and make the magnet packs a separate product that is offered as a free bonus with the purchase of the army boxes. Most stores I've seen seem to understand and offer the same deal.

The current aesthetic definitely doesn't quite feel "right" to me, and I loved the steampunk/magipunk style but it's looking a little too futuristic, even if like Cygnar always had lighting weapons. I can't put my finger on it.

I really miss Mk2 WM/H, even Mk3 before GW killed it overnight. I regret not getting into it as hardcore as I could have back then. My current LGS has some stuff from MK2/3 on the shelves in a corner, just gathering dust, and I get a pang of sadness every time I look at it because it was an amazing game.

It still is a great game, although i do not play it as often as i would like we still get some MKIII games in from time to time. and i have it with me every weekend just in case. all of it....





Like anything else not chasing the current meta/FOMO you just have to find people who will play it with you.

 Overread wrote:

 TalonZahn wrote:
Modular Jacks was a great idea and they even have magnet packs in the Starter Army Boxes.

I'm surprised GW haven't seen this, added magnets and instructions, then raise the prices 30%, lol

I believe PP had to stop putting magnets in the packs at some stage. I seem to recall some shipping restrictions came into play that complicated international shipments and might have raised shipping prices domestically?
But its only a vague recollection that something like that happened.


GW on the other hand would rather you buy two modular kits and glued them together. They've been very sparring with magnets - in fact I think the only models they've ever done with them in mind were the big titans for AT. Which as a specialist game appears to get a tiny bit more leeway in such matters compared to the big giants like 40K and AoS

The HH dreadnoughts have holes for magnets so that you can swap weapons. I think that the SoS gunship has them for the prow options as well. Not done across the range by any means, but useful where they have done it.

 Overread wrote:

 TalonZahn wrote:
Modular Jacks was a great idea and they even have magnet packs in the Starter Army Boxes.

I'm surprised GW haven't seen this, added magnets and instructions, then raise the prices 30%, lol

I believe PP had to stop putting magnets in the packs at some stage. I seem to recall some shipping restrictions came into play that complicated international shipments and might have raised shipping prices domestically?
But its only a vague recollection that something like that happened.


GW on the other hand would rather you buy two modular kits and glued them together. They've been very sparring with magnets - in fact I think the only models they've ever done with them in mind were the big titans for AT. Which as a specialist game appears to get a tiny bit more leeway in such matters compared to the big giants like 40K and AoS

I think Tom Hibbard on his first Painting Phase interview went a bit into this, GW had been looking at magnets for quite a while but including rare earth magnets in the kits (or selling them in the stores) would have had a bunch a strange knock on effects about whether the model kits could be classed as "toys" or not, which then added a lot of other complications as far as liability, taxes, shipping or acceptable age ranges for customers. In the end they decided it wasn't viable for the main ranges.

The resin kits from Forgeworld are not sold as toys, but "expert modeller's kits" so they have a bit more leeway.

Thing is you could surely get around that by including the slots and selling magnets on the side as an optional extra

 Overread wrote:
I believe PP had to stop putting magnets in the packs at some stage. I seem to recall some shipping restrictions came into play that complicated international shipments and might have raised shipping prices domestically?
But its only a vague recollection that something like that happened.

Our warjacks have been designed for customizable loadouts by creating sockets in the arms, heads, and bodies of the warjacks where small magnets can be easily glued. Our original intention was that these magnets would be included in all starter and warjack model kits. However, we have recently learned that in many countries outside of the United States, there are consumer protection laws that prohibit the inclusion of small, high-powered magnets in toys and model kits because of the dangers the magnets pose to small children in the event they are swallowed. In compliance with these laws and out of an abundance of caution, we will not be including the magnets in the kits but will instead offer them as a separate, paired product, with the magnets contained in child-resistant bottles for an increased measure of safety.

RESIN AND MAGNET SAFETY

I'd be curious as to know if magnets in boxes would have any negative interactions with the automated picking and packing hardware that gw now use in the warehouses. Might be a factor in not including them.