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Wizkids doesn't have the money, or people, to do anything with GW.

I also think their business ethics make anyone at GW look like a saint. Wizkids emerged from the ashes of FASA. In the turnover from FASA to Wizkids, a lot of people at both Zocci Distributing and Ral Partha miniatures were hurt. Zocci because it never got paid for it's half of Ral Partha, which FASA bankrupted after transferring a lot of debt to the company. Being told you get paid off in FASA merchandise, and then FASA goes away isn't a great deal. All the people at RP had problems when FASA would keep the money from RP sales, and neglect to make sure their paychecks didn't bounce. I had a lot of friends working at RP at the time, and it wasn't the least bit pretty.

But if you want to see 40k turned into a pre printed click game, well, their the people to go to.

Wizkids (bought out by Topps) is going through a recent change in the gaurd and some restructuring. It is a very questionable time for some of the wizkids games like Pirates of the spanish main, and maybe even for the company itself. Topps has replaced a head varmint for wizkids with one of their own execs. That is not usually a good sign.

out of curiosity, who are the biggest shareholders of GW stock (well, besides GW itself). GW is large enough, both assests and market share, that I could see a non-gaming oriented outsider making a move, al bets are off then. they could just replace management or they might split it up and sell off the various parts.

Pure speculation to add to the conversation...If a non-gaming oriented company was going to buy GW, I think these two would be contenders:

Virgin (Richard Branson) - They are launching a comicbook line in July/August and they do have an entertainment division. This could be an opportunity for them to get into gaming. They must think the geeky stuff is cool if they are putting out the money to get into comics with big names attached (Garth Ennis, John Woo).

Virgin Comics - http://www.newsarama.com/virgincomics/virgincomics.htm

The other contender would be Vivendi Games. They are all about computer games (they own Blizzard and WoW, Sierra, and some other old gaming studios). They also produce a large number of movie tie-in games. Sure their focus is computer games, but minis could be attractive.

I would also like to add that (this is all just for the sake of conversation of course) that someone may want to buy GW to get to the LotR license.

This thread is getting too much information posted into it.

Here are my questions....

1.) Can anyone here say that GW is going to be absorbed by another company?
2.) Can anyone offer a valid opinion why GW would be absorbed, simply because a drop in profits is not enough, if this were the case, every quarter when say Panasonic TVs don't sell as well and don't hit their target returns, Sony would take over right... NO! GW took a hit in total revenue so they eliminated some overhead, it is not even time to speculate on some other company buying GW.
3.) Speculation is just that, I understand you are all voicing an opinion, but please understand, you are putting a "what if" scenario on things here.
4.) Listen to Hellfury, sounds like he did his research; alot more than me so until I look up things on my own, I'm going off of facts that he is saying.

~Blank

1) Not in the least.
2) Low share price is what makes them vulnerable.

@Blank

Of course this is a 'what if' scenario, although it is getting more and more likely week by week.

They are a juicy target because they have a good gross with poor net. A lot of people would look at it and say "Hey, I can run that better"

A lot of other people would say "thats a bad industry to invest in."

Hey man, people still buy airlines, compared to that gaming looks like the goose that laid the golden egg.

(No intent to sound hostile here)

When major airlines go bankrupt they file for protection and then come out later, debt free.

When gaming companies go bankrupt they cease to exist.

The more appropriate comparison would be a specialty retail/manufacturer. Frankly I don't see mini gaming as large enough to support public companies but thats just me.

Don't forget that the airlines get wads of cash from the federal government and by going bankrupt they no longer have to re-pay their debts and are allowed to buy the planes that they had to sell for pennies on the dollar.

Seriously though, you are probably right that mini-gaming is not large enough to support being a public company, but that doesn't mean that it won't get bought up and de-listed

Posted By happypants on 07/14/2006 12:10 PM
Don't forget that the airlines get wads of cash from the federal government and by going bankrupt they no longer have to re-pay their debts and are allowed to buy the planes that they had to sell for pennies on the dollar.

Seriously though, you are probably right that mini-gaming is not large enough to support being a public company, but that doesn't mean that it won't get bought up and de-listed

 

You're right I didn't make my point clear. Major airlines get supported either directly or indirectly.  Game companies do not.

 

It could be bought and delisted - very correct. However, they are receiving paper thin margins on a niche product in the time of a good economy (this may be pre-WWIII with the way things are in the ME/Korea).  I don't see a major player interested in the field.  But again this is just my opinion.

 

Maybe McDonalds. Fat people eat at McDonalds. Fat people play 40k. Seems like a good match.

Chuck

Blank - I'll attempt to answer your second question...

Correct, a drop in profits is not enough to cause a company to get bought out. However, the drop in profits and sales as well as rising costs have contributed to their lower stock price. A lower stock price makes them more attractive because if someone wants to buy them, the sale value of the company may be lower. Obviously corporate sales are much more complex than a few simple issues.

Why someone would want to buy them? Why not? We are just looking at this from the 40K perspective. If someone were to buy them, the would also get a role-playing game (WFB and future 40K RPG), a CCG, a MMOG that is in some stage of development, a PC game franchise (Dawn of War), an extensive publishing library, a monthly periodical, may get to keep/renew/change the LotR license, and an established brand name. There is much much more than just a company taking over GW and changing 40K.

And all is that is on the hairy edge of net losses during a period of strong US and international growth, with limited competition - both direct and technological.

 

GW costs have been reduced for the past two years.

also you get manufacturing, a very high end studio of artists, a worldwide distibution network and offices, storefronts and infrastructure. even though its badly managed, theres a lot of resources there to work with. For an investing company, theres a lot to work with for what effectivly is a very cheap price. GW shows a tremendous weakness in not being effective in a  decent economy, from a buisness standpoint, what we complain about is not the issue, its a symptom of the real problem. GW has marketshare, capacity and consumers, so in the end, from a buisness standpoint the managment is at fault. Management is easy to replace when a company is taken over or even when one party that holds signifigant stock exerts influance.

Now, that doesn't mean an outside investor would be a good thing. its very possible they would misread the signals on what is hurting GW and things could deterorate even further from OUR perspective while still improving GW from a buisness prospective.

First you have to have comps that any competitor in this field has ever made a lasting profit-you have to prove the industry itself is a going concern. Are there any businesses that have done so? (not rhetorical, this is a real question on my part).

Does anyone know how the game market fares vs. good/bad economic times? I ask because the Movie business for example does much better during bad economic times than in good economic times because it is a cheap alternative. Now gaming isn't a 'cheap' hobby, but it is relatively inexpensive compared to a lot of other things, skiing and scuba diving for example (I figure each time I go diving each dive costs me on average $80 - $100 per dive not including gear and I do 1-3 dive trips a year 15-25 dives per trip)

I am not saying that gaming does better or worse, just curious if anyone has any info on that.

You get...a very high end studio of artists...

Not any more. Tammy Haye (former 'Eavy Metal artist) is on record this week as having said that "all the experienced guys" (i.e. time-served 'Eavy Meta artists) lhave been laid off because they were too expensive. It was also confirmed some time back that the in-house concept and illustration artists had all been laid off with GW commissioning any new work on a freelance basis now (of course John Blanche remains on staff, but he doesn't really qualify as an "artist" does he?).

(OT, but also, she stated that it is defeinitely the case that GW is moving to primarily plastic for all models with only "character" models (i.e. "collector" stuff) remaining in metal.)

course John Blanche remains on staff, but he doesn't really qualify as an "artist" does he?

Finally, someone has the guts to say it.