Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Don't forget Midnight, that their transports will also be firing as well. Doing the storm is fine since they still can assault the next turn or get back in the transport and rinse and repeat. Assuming it is a 10 man squad there will be 3 models left. Easy pickings for the squad if they assault. With defend and distract to help them, the squad has a pretty good chance to waste 'em. Either way, the combined firepower with 2 squads plus their transports should be enough to kill just about any unit. Think about combos as well. Casting Doom on the unit before you shoot the crap out of it will be nasty as well. It's all about the combined arms approach.

Capt K

I still am of the opinion that the biggest problem with the 3rd/4th edition eldar troops such as the dire avengers, guardian defenders, and jetbikes was the shuriken catapult. The fact that it only had a 12 inch range made it a completely worthless weapon. By the time you got into range to shoot the darn things, the enemy had already torn you apart with their longer ranged weapons. Things only got worse in 4th when everyone gained the ability to move and shoot twice at 12 inches. Even if you used a trick like zooming up in a transport, you were virtually ensured that after your one round of not so effective fire, the return volley would wipe you out to a man. At this point I only see a few real alternatives to make guardian and dire avengers worth using. You can give them long range weapons (24 inches at least) so they can stay out of rapid fire range. You can give them super dangerous weapons (a la fire dragons) so that if they get into range, they can be assured that they will kill their targets. You can bring their points cost down so low that regardless of how crappie their guns are, you can overwhelm your opponent with shear numbers (a la gaunts or IG troops). I suppose the final option would to make them very resilient so that they can live to get into range and then have a decent chance of living though the return fire and possible assault afterwards. Without one or another of these things, dire avengers will continue to suck and guardians will continue to be nothing more than ablative wounds to keep a weapon platform in operation.

Well, the rumors are that DA will get 18" range "dire catapults," as well as the "Shuriken Storm" ability that turns their guns Assault 3 for a turn, at the cost of not being able to fire in the following turn. If that's all true, I don't see why they wouldn't be effective like CaptK suggests, especially if Doom works as rumored. Two 10-DA units dumping out of Serpents unloading BS4, Assault3 fire and rerolling wounds kills 10 MEqs in a volley.

Using the current points value as a yardstick, that maneuver requires 500 points of Eldar troops, 1/2 of which are non-scoring, non-LOS blocking units. 

Granted, shuriken storm seems made for fish-of-fury type maneuvers, since they'll be re-embarking the turn they can't fire.

Are you actually suggesting that 200 points of DA should be able to kill 200 pts of SM in a single volley?

Exactly. You want 500 points to go against 200 points. That's how you win. The object is to overwhelm a unit quickly and (hopefully) without reciprocation. This is a basic principle that people win games with: take most of your army and isolate a smaller part of your opponent's-eliminate and move on. You don't want to try and go toe to toe with your opponent's army, especially with Eldar. The Eldar player should exploit this kind of thinking, especially since they have troop transports that can move 24" in a turn, or even 12" and still be able to fire.

The Dire Avengers work so well with the FoF tactic b/c they have the 18" range weapon. The 3 Marines that are left after the initial volley are really unable to respond back (sans maybe assault marines).

If you are taking 200 points of Eldar vs. 200 points of Marines, you are severely handicapping yourself.

Posted By keezus on 07/28/2006 11:30 AM

Granted, shuriken storm seems made for fish-of-fury type maneuvers, since they'll be re-embarking the turn they can't fire.

Plus, the DA are capable enough to charge in and tie up what they don't kill, especially with a properly equipped Exarch.

Posted By Sarigar on 07/28/2006 11:59 AM
Exactly. You want 500 points to go against 200 points. That's how you win. The object is to overwhelm a unit quickly and (hopefully) without reciprocation. This is a basic principle that people win games with: take most of your army and isolate a smaller part of your opponent's-eliminate and move on. You don't want to try and go toe to toe with your opponent's army, especially with Eldar. The Eldar player should exploit this kind of thinking, especially since they have troop transports that can move 24" in a turn, or even 12" and still be able to fire.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you here. Just a few things to point out.

1. DA are not durable and can not sustain return fire.
2. Mounted DA effectively doubles the cost of the unit, with the extra points sunk into a non-scoring unit
3. 500:200 had better successfully annhiliate its opposition! The question is what the other 300 points of enemies is doing in the mean time!
4. This kind of tactic is completely useless against a castle formation since you can't eliminate return-fire.

Davian:  You can't charge the turn you come out of a transport.

Here's a link to a good compilation of the current rumours.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=820737#post820737

It's got pretty much most of the important info, including the major changes to the aspects.

Interesting addition to the rumour mill is what the new "Runes of Warding" do. Essentially they force opposing psychers to roll 3D6 for all of their psychic tests. Any number over 12 causes a perils of the warp attack. As the average rolls for 3D6 is around 10.5 or so this is really going to put a crimp in the plans of many a FoD librarian. No counter to the Psychic hood though.

Also the Autarch stats are WS 6, BS6, T3, S3, W3, I6 A3 LD 10 Sv -/4+ (from an arm mounted forceshield). The autarch is able to use aspect equipment (but not Exarch equipment) from multiple aspects. So for example the following combo is possible. Swooping hawk wings (jump pack rules), mandiblasters (+1A), powerweapon, shuriken pistol (+1A for 2 hand weapons), fusion gun (str 8 now). Combined with leadership type traits like reroll reserve rolls The Path of Command looks to be an interesting addition to the Eldar army.

Stealing is Wrong...
(stolen from warseer link)

HQ

Avatar

More expensive than the last codex but some stats have been improved.
Gets back its molten body rule
Wailing Doom can be used in the shooting phase.

Farseer
Reduced T
Comes with improved Ghosthelm as standard.
Farseer allows purchase of Seer Council.
Farseer Powers
- Doom
- Eldritch Storm
- Fortune
- Guide
- Mind War

Warlocks
More expensive but come with wargear as standard
Warlock Powers
- Conceal
- Destructor
- Embolden
- Enhance

Autarch ? The Path of Command
New HQ choice
Can take a mixture of aspect warrior wargear

Elites

Striking Scorpions
Mandiblasters give +1A
Improved Scorpion chainsword
Exarch powers enhance stealth capabilities of squad

Fire Dragons
Slightly cheaper
Exarch powers enhance squad shooting

Howling Banshees
Pretty much the same
Exarch powers enhance general combat abilities of squad

Wraithguard
Improved T
Wraith Cannon slightly better
Full strength squad may be troops or elites

Harlequins
Highly capable close combat unit especially in cityfight
Members of the troupe can be upgraded to Death Jesters, Shadowseers or Troupe Master
Harlequins Kiss confess rending on attacks.


Troops

Dire Avengers
Core unit
Shuriken Catapult has longer range
Exarch powers enhance squad shooting or squad defence

Rangers
Pretty much the same
Can be upgraded to Pathfinders

Guardians
Larger minimum squad size
Must take a weapons platform
Can be upgraded to storm guardians and given two special weapons instead of weapons platform.

Guardian Jetbike squad
Much cheaper


Wave Serpent
Cheaper
Larger carrying capacity

Fast Attack

Shining Spears
Much Cheaper
Lance gives rough rider like capability
Exarch powers enhance riding capability

Warp Spiders
Pretty much the same
Exarch powers enchance squad tactical abilities

Swooping Hawks
Pretty much the same except they now come with haywire grenades as standard.
Exarch powers ? Intercept (never require worse than 4+ to hit a vehicle) and Skyleap (multiple deep strike)
Exarch weapons
- Power weapon
- Hawks Talon
- Sun Rifle


Vypers
Slightly cheaper

Heavy Suport

Support Weapons
Pretty much the same except D-cannon is enhanced inline with other weapons of the same type.

Dark Reapers
Better Save
Pretty much the same except slightly cheaper
Exarch powers enhance squad shooting

Wraithlord
More expensive
Must take at least one heavy weapon or Wraithsword may take another ranged weapon with duplicates counting as twin linked.
No rumoured shield option

Falcon
Slightly cheaper

War Walkers
Same cost
Looses energy field but gains scout rule.
Must take two heavy weapons with duplicates counting as twin linked.
No longer open topped.


Fire Prism
Same Price
New fire mode ? Dispersed, less power but effects are wider area
Fire Prisms may combine shots to increase power
Edit - Confirmed by Underway Prism cannon firepower is
Str 9 AP2 Blast (Focused) or Str5 AP4 Large blast (Dispersed) by combining two Fire Prisms you can increase this to:
Str 10 AP1 Blast (Focused) or Str6 AP3 Large blast (Dispersed) both Twinlinked.


Special Characters

Eldrad Ulthran
Prince Yriel ? Autarch of Iyanden
The Phoenix Lords

Misc Weapons info
No Random shot weapons in the codex.

So for example the following combo is possible. Swooping hawk wings (jump pack rules), mandiblasters (+1A), powerweapon, shuriken pistol (+1A for 2 hand weapons), fusion gun (str 8 now).

Assuming the present limit of two weapons per character is in place, not quite.

I'm kind of interested to know what they plan for jetbikes. Makeing them cheaper is nice but then what? Sure they are fast, sure they are tougher than other eldar units but they don't really do much. They have shuriken catapults so they get 2 shots at a laughable 12 inches and they can move really fast. Great. So they can zoom to where they want to be to die. They could jump into hand to hand, but 1 attack at strength 3 isn't exactly going to do much. The price on these guys is going to have to be something like 14 or 15 points or so if they are going to see the field with their current stats.