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tetrisphreak wrote:They state they ignore cover because they're shooting style attacks triggered in melee. Since only melee attacks inherently ignore cover but shooting attacks do not, the addition was added for clarification. So, no it's not superfluous - it actually shows some forethought in the rule.

rigeld2 wrote:You can't take cover saves from CC wounds. The spore explosion isn't a CC wound.

OH right on, thanks for clarification. I guess thats why they also state it for the Acid blood. Got it.

Anyone try the pack of 30 termagants outflank with a Prime thats bonesword/lashwhip? I did a 30gaunt flank, 10 with dev. my word that was brutal, and a massive tarpit, then had a tervigon troop in the backfield with only the gaunts it spawns anywhere near it.

 Tarnag wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

Newtype Zero wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:
I think the argument is that it no longer has (character) as it's type.

Wait, what? A Tervigon can't be a Warlord because it doesn't have (character) as it's type?

1. I've never heard of that ruleing before that your Warlord MUST be a character
2. If that is the case, why even put it in the HQ slot GW?

1. "Whn choosing your army, you must nominate one model to be your Warlord. It is is always the HQ choice character with the highest Leadership." - Very first line on page 111

2. You have a second HQ slot, you know.

So if you were to only take Tervigons as an HQ choice, you wouldn't be able to have a Warlord? That doesn't make sense, that almost comes out as an advantage because you're not giving up the victory point.

In the same way bringing 1700 points to a 1500 point game gives you an advantage...

Having a really hard time deciding if I should use Mawloc or Trygon in my list. I only have one box right now so it'd be a lone Mawloc or Trygon in my list, along with 3 melee fexes... =(

Magnetise it.

I know that's a possibility lol I'm saying if I didn't. Not everyone wants to magnetize!

On the subject of tervigon as a general....

I thought codex trumped brb? If so then tervigon cant be a character because the codex says it is not...

I tried the Deathleaper this afternoon... Got shredded by the Tau missiles that ignore cover and don't need LoS. I see it only good as a backfield unit vs. Tau... Very pricy too—should have brought Hive Guard instead.

 Lord Scythican wrote:
On the subject of tervigon as a general....

I thought codex trumped brb? If so then tervigon cant be a character because the codex says it is not...

In this case it's most recent rules trumps older rules, so yes, it isn't a character any more.

This RAW vs RAI nonsense is stupid take it to YMDC. And arguing RAI unless YOU wrote those rules is slowed except maybe in glaring cases lie the double negative I the far sight supplement. Sadly this isn't one of those cases.

barnowl wrote:

remember that the tervigon CAN'T be your general!

Mine does run as a general, until FAQ nothings stopping me.

Ignore the raw nonsense and just play it as intended

it would be one thing if the tervigon was never a Character... but when the 6th edition BRB came out.. it made tervigons a CH. now suddenly its not a CH? bullshiz im waiting for the first FAQ. if a store/turny tells me i cant play my list cool im off to play friendlyer games then.

Is this seriously a real response? No offense but why in the world would the BRB which was produced to be A SUMMARY of units in the *Last* book have any relevance when the new book came out? You do realize that pieces of paper do not automatically update themselves when new information comes out. Your argument is like if you're in a science class using a book from the 1930s and refuse to accept new information from newer books?

100% of the entries in the BRB that relate to tyranids are VOID now, just like every OTHER entry for an army that received a 6th edition codex already. Come on, really? You're just going to play as you see fit because you don't like the changes?

Tervigon is not a character, and it needs no FAQ because the current codex is the only rules that apply. By your bizarre logic you can't even field an exocrine or a crone because it doesn't have an entry in the BRB and by that note are you using the statlines for EVERY unit directly from the BRB? You know that "character" is a unit stat, so you might as well use all the old stats and ignore the new book.

Just played in my first tourny ever yesterday with this 6th ed Nid list:

Dual Tryon P + Dual Flyrant (1200)

1 Hive Tyrant
-Wings
-TL Devourer w/ BLW
-TL Devourer w/ BLW
-Hive Commander
-
-

1 Hive Tyrant
-Wings
-TL Devourer w/ BLW
-TL Devourer w/ BLW
-
-

2 Zoanthropes

10 Termigants

10 Termigants

1 Trygon Prime
-Miasma Cannon
-Toxin Sacs

1 Trygon Prime
-Reaper of Obliterax

Won 3 out of 3 games I played and finished 3rd place.

I played against
-An IG list that included 3 Vendettas with Lascannons
-Another nid list (never played vs nids before.... it's weird to be giving each other synapse lol)
-Chaos!

The battle with Chaos was a brutal and bloody Purge the Alien battle. One Trygon Prime crushing a Soul Grinder while the other was laid low by the rending claws of Daemonettes and so the exchange went until it came down to Warlord vs Warlord, two FMC's, Flyrant vs. Daemon Prince... each half dead already. It was the bottom of turn six when the Daemon had just brought down the Trygon Prime wielding The Reaper of Obliterax and was caught flat-footed by the Flyrant who fell upon on him with his Devourer and letting out a Psychic Scream struck down the Daemon Prince on a large piece of rocky terrain ..."Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside." ...it was EPIC!!!(had to quote it, not only did it fit but I won a Lord of the Rings game) I bought the Chaos player a drink afterwards for a great ending to fun day of 40k. (He actually placed first in the tourny even though I tabled him in the last game)

Anyways, as far as the list went it seemed quite upfront and killy enough to make up for the minimal scoring units. The Miasma Cannon is awesome vs infantry as you would expect especially on a Trygon Prime that can DS extremely close to the enemy. The Reaper of Obliterax is a bit over priced IMO but it's hard to argue to much with Shred, ID on 6's, +1S and +3 initiative. The Trygon Primes themselves overall seemed quite good but can't stand alone and work best to complement other threats being presented at the same time. Two Flyrants and two Trygon Primes proved to be way to much for most armies to handle on turn two at 1200 points.

The Dakka Flyrants BS increase was a bit helpful as I regularly saw 10-12 hits from them(two more than it used to be) and their point drop was very helpful as well.

The Zoanthropes did prove themselves useful in all three games despite having to walk them across the field. Their's always some stragglers needing to be cleaned up, synapse needed for some point camping troops or even a turn one rush before my reserves can come in. Totally worth their points if you don't need the slots for venomthropes and in my case those would not have been able to keep up with my main attack force and would not have provided any backfield synapse so Zoanthropes was the better choice.

The point drop in termigants also was nice, In this case it was only a 20 point difference but that could mean Miasma Cannon or no Miasma Cannon and that cannon did a lot of damage each game, much more than it's points value so I'm not gonna scoff at the point change of the termigants. On that note, everything in this list saw a point reduction and had the same models been purchased from the 5th edition codex, they would have been 120 more points and at a 1200 limit, that makes a big difference. Nothing here got any real nerfs and the Flyrants got a buff also so it's a better army than it used to be and it cost less. Can't say I like this new codex but I can't say it's all bad either.

That's about it as far as the changes I've noticed in practice so far. Hope it helps.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
I tried the Deathleaper this afternoon... Got shredded by the Tau missiles that ignore cover and don't need LoS. I see it only good as a backfield unit vs. Tau... Very pricy too—should have brought Hive Guard instead.

...and this missile was fired as a snapshot right?

Their missiles are multi shot and twin linked.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Their missiles are multi shot and twin linked.

Just checking, not so familiar with Tau weaponry as I only play with one Tau player and he's been more into his Dark Eldar lately.

What would be better?

A mix of 20 x devil gaunts and 10 x normal gaunt's outflanking with a Prime. (roughly 350 points)

The above outflanking with out a prime and assuming I can get a flyrant in range. (roughly 200 point's but without the flexibility of guaranteed synapse)

A Tervigon outflanking and then creating X number of gaunt's (195 + X - the TMC + say.. 9 gaunt's shooting likely is not as powerful as any of the above?)

I do not have my codex on me so Im not sure which would be the best threat for the most efficient price..

Flyrants are to useful to be babysitters, I leave them flexable. Not to mention a single Flyrant has a high likelihood of death in the very near future. I'd say either the prime or the Tervigon or both in addition to the Flyrant.

If you go with two flyrants and a Trygon Prime you could fairly safely outflank the termigants by themselves but less than that would make me nervous regarding my tactical options.

Think I finally figured out a use for Haruspex's. S8 Armorbane will bust AV14 to AV15 just fine and the Acid blood + Fear makes it somewhat resistant to getting charged by what ever was in side said high AV.

It is does actually conform to it's fluff as a heavy armor/ building buster: "Buildings are smashed open, battle tanks torn asunder and the unfortunate prey sheltering inside hungrily devoured."

While it will get drowned by blob/horde units, anything that is relying on good Armor to save it will not like this thing. 1 HoW +1 (+2 with an AG) for the charge+ 3 base + tail with Rend for 5-6 attacks on the charge is not something say Centurions want to face. And you pretty much have to run it with the AG for Fleet or you wont get much use from it.

EDIT: Haruspex and Pyrovores seem like decent units for Stronghold missions.

Before the horde codex updates everyone was guessing how the meta would change. Now we have an updated horde codex, but not quite what was expected. I guess a horde of monstrous creatures also count as a horde

To an outside observer who has read these threads and a lot of batreps, this is how I feel:

Tau and Eldar are still up there alone. Chaos Daemons find a bad match up with the Tyranids now, could be that folks don't know how to take them. Necrons I haven't seen much in action, but they do what they always do, ie. try the last turn grab. That leaves SM and CSM then. Both seem somewhat ill-equipped to take out a large number of MC's.

 Abandon wrote:
Flyrants are to useful to be babysitters, I leave them flexable. Not to mention a single Flyrant has a high likelihood of death in the very near future. I'd say either the prime or the Tervigon or both in addition to the Flyrant.

If you go with two flyrants and a Trygon Prime you could fairly safely outflank the termigants by themselves but less than that would make me nervous regarding my tactical options.

I agree with you on that one, I don't like the idea of having to put my flyrant in a position to get synapse when I might not want him there.

It's so up in the air at the moment I think im just going to have to play test it.. using the Tervigon has upsides (not taking a HQ being a massive one!) but his point value is very prohibitive and he wont do as much damage as a prime + gaunts it's more annoyance than Alpha strike.

Using a prime + gaunt's is a good Alpha strike but it's one less Flyrant and the prime himself likely wont do much other than provide synapse.

Maybe.... I give my Flyrant that Norn crown (cheaper than an Alpha if I just want him for Synapse) and the primaris power then I am guaranteed to be in synapse and be able to move the Flyrant to where I want him..

2 Flyrants both with HC, outflank a unit of warriors and a termagant squad?

Taking a risk with them not both coming in on the same side, but...

I'm still having a problem wrapping my head around the new codex. Synapse seems to be the biggest issue. I have designed a list yet to be tested.

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t6960p280-a-tdc-blog-tactics-unit-analysis-batreps-observations

(bottom of the page)

Even with five sources of synapse a good Tau/Edar list can pretty much eliminate all of it by turn three, You have to hope you are in their face by then. I also do want to try Mawloc shenenigans but Lictors and Deathleaper are not that impressive.

Newtype Zero wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:
I think the argument is that it no longer has (character) as it's type.

Wait, what? A Tervigon can't be a Warlord because it doesn't have (character) as it's type?

1. I've never heard of that ruleing before that your Warlord MUST be a character
2. If that is the case, why even put it in the HQ slot GW?

Yup, your warlord has to be an HQ character. I fully believe that it will be FAQ'd back into a character. This is just another example of the lazy copy/paste job this codex was.

I know the tervigon went up in price, but how bad it is?

If you buy 30 termagants you have already saved 30 points from the old list. If you buy devourers it is even cheaper as they went down in price. During 5th edition codex you did not take 30 termagants, but they still got better I would think.

The tervigon can take the thorax swarm.

It lost biomancy and 3 powers to select from, but catalys is better then many of the biomancy powers giving itself and another unit feel no pain.

The once who got hit hardest with the nerf bat is also the hive guard. Is the lost of 1 point in BS that bad? 5 point increase is not so big, you will never take more then 30, if even that many. The rest of the codex got slimmer so you can aford it.

Played a few games, including one just a few hours ago.

TAC list A:
Flyrant w/ devs
Flyrant w/ devs
Zoey
Venomthrope
Tervigon
30 Termagants
3 Warriors w/ Barbed
Hive Crone
2 Carnifexes w/ devs
Exocrine
Exocrine
Bastion

TAC list B
Flyrant w/ devs
Flyrant w/ devs
Zoey
Zoey
Venomthrope
Tervigon
10 Termagants
30 Termagants
Hive Crone
Hive Crone
15 Gargoyles
3 Biovores
Mawloc
Mawloc
Bastion w/ comms relay

Fought a variety of armies. Won most of the time, but lost as well. Not an easy codex to play and plays really differently from the old one but aside from Taudar, everyone else's TAC lists didn't like to face 7-8+ MCs and 50+ non-Mcs. Against Taudar, I lost more than I won but even against them, I didn't felt steamrolled.

I think it's pretty important to still have at least one Tervigon in any army list, MC troop choice that can spawn troop is still very strong. Just remember to send your babies away from their mother.

The thing is if you spawn termagaunst turn 1 and 2 when there is nothing within the short range of the tervigon, depending on what you roll, you might be abel to "run" out of the 12" range in the shooting phase.

This can of cours get tricky if the table is cluttered or you roll a small runn number.

 Niiai wrote:
I know the tervigon went up in price, but how bad it is?

If you buy 30 termagants you have already saved 30 points from the old list. If you buy devourers it is even cheaper as they went down in price. During 5th edition codex you did not take 30 termagants, but they still got better I would think.

The tervigon can take the thorax swarm.

It lost biomancy and 3 powers to select from, but catalys is better then many of the biomancy powers giving itself and another unit feel no pain.

The once who got hit hardest with the nerf bat is also the hive guard. Is the lost of 1 point in BS that bad? 5 point increase is not so big, you will never take more then 30, if even that many. The rest of the codex got slimmer so you can aford it.

sir i dont think you know much about anything with nids....

the tervigon now rolls for powers and you need a 1 for catalyst, Also tervigon know hurts termagants upto 12in away.... also can not be your warlord, so you can not run 2 HQs of tervigons.

hive gaurd where nerfed to the point of being ineffective and take up a valuable elite spot. the rest of the dex did not get slimmer, several key models had a price increase. Also a loss of several other useful models.

 stormoffires wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
I know the tervigon went up in price, but how bad it is?

If you buy 30 termagants you have already saved 30 points from the old list. If you buy devourers it is even cheaper as they went down in price. During 5th edition codex you did not take 30 termagants, but they still got better I would think.

The tervigon can take the thorax swarm.

It lost biomancy and 3 powers to select from, but catalys is better then many of the biomancy powers giving itself and another unit feel no pain.

The once who got hit hardest with the nerf bat is also the hive guard. Is the lost of 1 point in BS that bad? 5 point increase is not so big, you will never take more then 30, if even that many. The rest of the codex got slimmer so you can aford it.

sir i dont think you know much about anything with nids....

the tervigon now rolls for powers and you need a 1 for catalyst, Also tervigon know hurts termagants upto 12in away.... also can not be your warlord, so you can not run 2 HQs of tervigons.

hive gaurd where nerfed to the point of being ineffective and take up a valuable elite spot. the rest of the dex did not get slimmer, several key models had a price increase. Also a loss of several other useful models.

The book did in fact get "slimmer" After plugging in a bunch of my 5th Ed 2000 point lists I found that most of them are coming up around 1700-1800 pts in this book.

I know the tervigon went up in price, but how bad it is?

If you buy 30 termagants you have already saved 30 points from the old list. If you buy devourers it is even cheaper as they went down in price. During 5th edition codex you did not take 30 termagants, but they still got better I would think.

The tervigon can take the thorax swarm.

It lost biomancy and 3 powers to select from, but catalys is better then many of the biomancy powers giving itself and another unit feel no pain.

The once who got hit hardest with the nerf bat is also the hive guard. Is the lost of 1 point in BS that bad? 5 point increase is not so big, you will never take more then 30, if even that many. The rest of the codex got slimmer so you can aford it.

As well as the point increase, the requirement increase from 10 termagants to 30 termagants to take a tervigon as a troop and the loss of biomancy powers (well all brb but that was main loss) It also lost

1) starting with dominion and the option of choosing catalyst and/or onslaught in addion, effetively losing 2 powers and changing choice to random

2) The range of the backlash damaging termagants when it is killed has doubled from 6" to 12"

3) It no longer gives termagants within 6" adrenal glands/toxin sacks if the tervigon has them

4) Termagants within 6" can no longer use the tervigons leadership

Yes it was overpowered before, but that was mainly due to how cheap it was to take it as a troop, the increased requirement and point increase took care of that, the 4 extra nerfs in addition were uneeded, or at the very least not all 4.

Created a fairly powerful list.

It can obviously be toyed with and doesn't fit the internet's love for spam...but it's been proving to be pretty mean thus far.

HQ
-Tyrant (Wings, 2x Devourers)
-Tyrant (Wings, 2x Devourers)

TROOP
-Tervigon (Cluster Spines)
-Tervigon (Cluster Spines)
-30 Termagants
-30 Termagants

ELITE
-Venomthrope
-Venomthrope
-Zoanthrope

HEAVY
-2x Carnifex (Adrenal Glands)
-Exocrine
-Exocrine

1850/1850

 ductvader wrote:

 stormoffires wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
I know the tervigon went up in price, but how bad it is?

If you buy 30 termagants you have already saved 30 points from the old list. If you buy devourers it is even cheaper as they went down in price. During 5th edition codex you did not take 30 termagants, but they still got better I would think.

The tervigon can take the thorax swarm.

It lost biomancy and 3 powers to select from, but catalys is better then many of the biomancy powers giving itself and another unit feel no pain.

The once who got hit hardest with the nerf bat is also the hive guard. Is the lost of 1 point in BS that bad? 5 point increase is not so big, you will never take more then 30, if even that many. The rest of the codex got slimmer so you can aford it.

sir i dont think you know much about anything with nids....

the tervigon now rolls for powers and you need a 1 for catalyst, Also tervigon know hurts termagants upto 12in away.... also can not be your warlord, so you can not run 2 HQs of tervigons.

hive gaurd where nerfed to the point of being ineffective and take up a valuable elite spot. the rest of the dex did not get slimmer, several key models had a price increase. Also a loss of several other useful models.

The book did in fact get "slimmer" After plugging in a bunch of my 5th Ed 2000 point lists I found that most of them are coming up around 1700-1800 pts in this book.

yes any gants or fex lists will be smaller, heck even mine are smaller now cause i lost a bunch of my units. (ymgarls, pods and so on)