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Made in ca
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






Better episode but I'm trying to recall if we've ever seen The Klingons torture someone before. That's always been more of a Romulan and Cardassian thing. They also never talk about honour. I kind of wish they had just made this an all new alien species. There's no way this is just some other unseen race of Klingons. They don't even have detached ears and their skulls are so elongated they're barely humanoid. I don't see how this is the same species. That and the fact even their culture seems different it would have just been better to call them something else.

 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




Ah. I hadn't bothered to look them up. That is.. pretty bad. Sometimes I don't know what goes through people's heads, especially when making a new version of entertainment.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





UK

Episode 5 was a cracker! Nice to see Lorca and Saru get some really good scenes focusing purely on them, and with a bit more focus on Tilly and Stamets you can really start to see the classic ST influences in there. The spore drive gets a bit more explained which is a good thing (still technobabble, but less vague technobabble! ) and there were some interesting new characters introduced, especially the two introduced via Lorca's scenes.

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






To be honest, I'm just assuming that Starfleet ships and Klingons always "really" looked like that but the effects got better. Inconsistencies between different series only bother me when they waste time picking at them onscreen. Trials and Tribble-ations had the second-best way, IMO, of addressing the change inKlingons (the best would have been to have Worf appear like a TOS Klingon whenever he was in the past, with no attention drawn to it at all).
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

I'm with Andrew on that. I think trying to create a canon explanation for having a better budget and make up crew was one of the dumbest things Star Trek ever did. Even Roddenberry wasn't that obsessed. He just asked fans to "pretend they always looked like that" in reference to the STIII/TNG redesign.

This is the obsession of trivial and petty details that annoys me about fandom.

   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

Who determines what is petty and trivial?

   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Who determines what is petty and trivial?


If it has nothing to do with the plot it is trivial. If It has nothing to do with the plot, and is ultimately just an aesthetic detail that could be a thousand other things, it is petty

So speakith Hat. Lord Master of all Determinations

EDIT: Although I guess that's really a tautology isn't it... They're kind of the same thing. Oh well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/17 01:59:56


   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

Star Trek has a single plot? I thought it was known for its characters and vision. For me, STD kept what was petty and trivial and lost what was important.

   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

I just think it's stupid to become so self-obsessed with unimportant details that you task the writers with explaining why the Klingons didn't have head ridges and fangs 40 years ago cause I mean come on. That's what we're going to spend the crisis of the week on? Canonizing our improved budget? Somehow though someone felt it was so necessary they dedicated two dreadful episodes to the most forced, and contrived explanation possible instead of simply running with the "well we could have just kept giving Klingon's mustaches and bowl cuts but we thought we could make them look cooler" explanation at fan conventions.

Maybe Discovery will spend an episode explaining why the Cardassians stopped wearing those stupid face things that they only wore in that one episode, instead of just letting everyone quietly forget that mistake and be happy with how much better everything looked without them. It would be an absolute waste of an hour, but hey it is oh so important that everyone understand why the Cardassians stopped wearing those! I mean they started eating people after they became sentient! That's gotta be worth at least 45 minutes of bandwidth EDIT: And then of course they'll have to move on to explaining why Gul Macet was the only Cardassian to ever sport facial hair, cause I seriously want to know what he (or his hair...) did to make all Cardassians avoid developing even five o'clock shadow!

I wasn't really commenting on STD, which I will continue to boycott until it reaches a platform where I'm not tossing money just to watch the one show.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/17 02:35:14


   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Tilly and Lt fungus-man remind me of SFDebris' review of Star Trek First Contact; all the unfortunates who joined Starfleet to study gas anomalies, stellar phenomena or space whales, and suddenly end up neck-deep in a war. In ST:FC they just got assimilated in the first ten minutes; perhaps Discovery will be able to go somewhere with that idea.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

KLINGONS DONT TOTURE

except when they do

This doesn't really stretch credibility. Among an entire race, there is bound to be some range of cultural values. "Honor" is a pretty broad, vague term anyhow. Plus if you are following the show closely enough to complain about details you might also have noticed that among the 24 great houses, the House of Mókai (to which L'Rell belongs) are "watchers, deceivers, and weavers of lies" considered dishonorable by other houses. So if you consider torture to be dishonorable, in the Klingon sense, then it should make sense to you that the House of Mókai practice it.

   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

Klingon WARRIORS don't torture - except when it's fun. There's been precious little shown of actual warriors in this series so far.

The tombship in the pilot seemed to be crewed by religious nutters (they believe in "the black fleet", not "Sto'vo'kor" - which already marks them as religious deviants) not warriors.

But this wasn't a "warship" so much as a "prisoner transport".

I'm sure the klingon crew found such a task to be beneath them and without honour (and anyone who allows themselves to be captured so easily deserves no honourable death. )

So they're probably just bored.

I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Mmm sounds like fun to watch.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

It was an awesome episode (f bombs aside) with Lorca and Tyler kicking some Klingon butt.

   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

An interesting comparison would Imperial japan in WWII and how they justified their atrosities.

In their world view warriors do not surrender and die before being captured (which is on par with what the Klingons have been shown to do). Therefore people who did surrender and chose capture over death in battle or suicide were beneath contempt.

So I had no trouble squaring Klingon honor and torture.

Overall good show, I won't even bring up my peeves this time

 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Was anyone else super embarassed by f bombs in Star Trek?

NOT UR DADS TRAK

   
Made in gb
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





UK

I would be annoyed on principle, ST is perhaps not the place for, as Spock would say, 'colourful metaphors'. On the other hand, I didn't feel they were forced in or anything, and seemed in character; Tilly already has a history of blurting things out without thinking. I also respect the fact that it brought in a little bit of a sense of wonder in those characters, what's that if not classic Trek? The phrasing is certainly cruder, but in a way this is Discovery's answer to Picard's musings on the mysteries and wonders of space. At least they're doing some actual science and discovery and getting rather excited about it, while everyone else on the ship is busy blowing up klingons.

It also reminds me a bit of Data's 'Oh S%$£' in ST: Generations. There will be people outraged by it, but I'm not among them. I'm against gratuitous swearing just for the sake of it (outside of stuff like Hot Fuzz or Kingsman where the fact it's so over the top is the joke in and of itself) but this didn't seem forced in just because they had the 15 certificate, it worked as a natural reaction by those characters.

 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Yikes I dunno - yes, it made sense in a certain way but it also felt extremely contrived ... sort of like shoehorning Beastie Boys into a Star Trek movie.

Hey kids Star Trek is totally rad!


   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

Was an ok episode for me but unsure if it drove the over arching plot on that much.
Seemed like a bit of an excuse to give the Captain some air time and delve into some "science stuff" rather than pewpewing again.
On we go.

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






I actually loved the swearing for the way it was delivered.

That's F'ing cool! OhmygodImsosorryIsaidthat!
No. No. You're right. That Is F'ing cool!

It made them feel more real to me.

 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I felt they suitably expressed the characters excitement.

I mean, Tilly is, if I remember correctly, not that long out of the academy - and has underdeveloped social skills.

The swearing was contextual, and not Torchwood Inappropriate (where random swearies seemed to have been dropped into the script completely at random). She was impressed and excited, and clearly blurted it out.

It worked.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Manchu wrote:
Yikes I dunno - yes, it made sense in a certain way but it also felt extremely contrived ... sort of like shoehorning Beastie Boys into a Star Trek movie.

Hey kids Star Trek is totally rad!



I think the first f-bomb in all of Star Trek was in Star Trek (2009) when young Jim Kirk is driving a stolen car and puts on the Sabotage by The Beastie Boys.

I can't stand it I know you planned it
But I'm gonna set it straight, this Watergate
I can't stand rocking when I'm in here
Because your crystal ball ain't so crystal clear
So while you sit back and wonder why
I got this f***ing thorn in my side


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeRghYqi090

When Sabotage next appeared in "Beyond" it seems they only had the radio edit on file as the f-bomb was missing from the song.

It's good to know that the Beastie Boys were still able to release music during the Eugenics Wars.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/19 10:46:51


 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Sabotage was the wrong choice of song.

Everyone know's that when it's time to give the bad guys a proper shoeing out of the leftfield, you put on The Damned's 'Smash It Up'.

It's the only way.

   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

I how to the level of scholarship on ST F bombs

 
   
Made in ca
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
An interesting comparison would Imperial japan in WWII and how they justified their atrosities.

In their world view warriors do not surrender and die before being captured (which is on par with what the Klingons have been shown to do). Therefore people who did surrender and chose capture over death in battle or suicide were beneath contempt.

So I had no trouble squaring Klingon honor and torture.

Overall good show, I won't even bring up my peeves this time


I've always likened the Klingons to Imperial Japan in WWII and that's how I look at the whole torture thing too. I'm just saying I haven't seen them ever do that before and the way the Starfleet officers are talking it was like there's a 100% chance of being brutally tortured if you captured by The Klingons. That wasn't even true of the Japanese in WWII. If you're captured by Romulans or Cardassians there is definitely a 100% chance of torture but never took Klingons to be like that. Also, haven't even heard them mention any kind of code of honour.

edit: definitely not defiantly

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/20 22:28:23


 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
I'm just saying I haven't seen them ever do that before and the way the Starfleet officers are talking it was like there's a 100% chance of being brutally tortured if you captured by The Klingons.


I'm sitting here trying to think and sure enough I can't think of any instance of the Klingons employing outright torture. Cruel mistreatment and inflicting horrible conditions on people yes, but going out of ones way to inflict pain for pains sake (or to acquire information)? Nope I'm drawing a blank. To be fair I think being a prisoner of the Klingons could easily be figurative torture, but I can't find any instance of the Klingons employing literal torture.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/19 21:17:55


   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

On Organia. Threatened use of a "mind sifter."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/20 03:26:35


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

FWIW In TNG forward, Klingons are mostly portrayed as Fed allies.

   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

But they did fight a war during DS9

 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
But they did fight a war during DS9


Yes, the Klingons forgot the all important rule.

Bros before planetary star systems

   
 
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