Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Right, but at the point in time my army is modelled, most of the PDF don't know they're either Renegades or Heretics.

Kronstaat IV has (spoiler alert) seceded from the Imperium in a popular revolt, by the people for the people. They don't yet know they've been sold out by a monster who is neither Stalin nor a huge Mary-Sue. They are unaware they are Vlasovtsy.

I have nothing to do all day today but babysit though, so I could probably take a stab at a spikey one too.

Friday, innit?

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Right, but at the point in time my army is modelled, most of the PDF don't know they're either Renegades or Heretics.

Kronstaat IV has (spoiler alert) seceded from the Imperium in a popular revolt, by the people for the people. They don't yet know they've been sold out by a monster who is neither Stalin nor a huge Mary-Sue. They are unaware they are Vlasovtsy.

I have nothing to do all day today but babysit though, so I could probably take a stab at a spikey one too.

Friday, innit?

Spikes for the spike throne.

Do we have considered traitor knights soup allready?

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Right, but at the point in time my army is modelled, most of the PDF don't know they're either Renegades or Heretics.

Kronstaat IV has (spoiler alert) seceded from the Imperium in a popular revolt, by the people for the people. They don't yet know they've been sold out by a monster who is neither Stalin nor a huge Mary-Sue. They are unaware they are Vlasovtsy.

I have nothing to do all day today but babysit though, so I could probably take a stab at a spikey one too.

Friday, innit?

Spikes for the spike throne.

Do we have considered traitor knights soup allready?

I don't think it's been discussed yet but a definite must now, just like with the loyalist dogs, I see the disloyal32 and/or traitorous20 + knights being really strong. Sadly I don't know enough about knights to know which to take or how to run them.

If anyone experienced with chaos knights have some ideas I'm all ears.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even better would be a disloyal brigade since the only thing we can do well is a cheap brigade.


++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Chaos - Renegades & Heretics) [42 PL, 15CP, 549pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [12CP]

+ HQ +

Renegade Commander [3 PL, 25pts]: Brutal Assault weapon, Laspistol

Renegade Commander [3 PL, 25pts]: Brutal Assault weapon, Laspistol

Renegade Commander [3 PL, 25pts]: Brutal Assault weapon, Laspistol

+ Troops +

Renegade Mutant Rabble [2 PL, 40pts]
. Mutant Champion: Autopistol, Brutal Assault weapon
. 9x Mutant with Shotgun

Renegade Mutant Rabble [2 PL, 40pts]
. Mutant Champion: Autopistol, Brutal Assault weapon
. 9x Mutant with Shotgun

Renegade Mutant Rabble [2 PL, 40pts]
. Mutant Champion: Autopistol, Brutal Assault weapon
. 9x Mutant with Shotgun

Renegade Mutant Rabble [2 PL, 40pts]
. Mutant Champion: Autopistol, Brutal Assault weapon
. 9x Mutant with Shotgun

Renegade Mutant Rabble [2 PL, 40pts]
. Mutant Champion: Autopistol, Brutal Assault weapon
. 9x Mutant with Shotgun

Renegade Mutant Rabble [2 PL, 40pts]
. Mutant Champion: Autopistol, Brutal Assault weapon
. 9x Mutant with Shotgun

+ Elites +

Renegade Enforcer [2 PL, 30pts]: Autopistol, Brutal Assault weapon

Renegade Enforcer [2 PL, 30pts]: Autopistol, Brutal Assault weapon

Renegade Enforcer [2 PL, 30pts]: Autopistol, Brutal Assault weapon

+ Fast Attack +

Chaos Spawn [2 PL, 33pts]: Chaos Spawn

Chaos Spawn [2 PL, 33pts]: Chaos Spawn

Chaos Spawn [2 PL, 33pts]: Chaos Spawn

+ Heavy Support +

Renegade Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 15pts]
. Renegade Weapon Team: Heavy stubber, Lasgun
. Renegade Weapon Team: Heavy stubber, Lasgun
. Renegade Weapon Team: Heavy stubber, Lasgun

Renegade Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 15pts]
. Renegade Weapon Team: Heavy stubber, Lasgun
. Renegade Weapon Team: Heavy stubber, Lasgun
. Renegade Weapon Team: Heavy stubber, Lasgun

Renegade Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 15pts]
. Renegade Weapon Team: Heavy stubber, Lasgun
. Renegade Weapon Team: Heavy stubber, Lasgun
. Renegade Weapon Team: Heavy stubber, Lasgun

++ Total: [42 PL, 15CP, 549pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I belive we do the Battalion better then the brigade.
I'd still also go for the mortar over the stubber.

And for the autoguns on the mutants.

But yeah maybee with a bunch of knights might work.

I'd also go for command squads instead of the enforcer.

Renegade enforcers backing renegade cultist blobs could make for good meat shields for knights, especially with that 5+ invul chaos knights can now dole out...

WinterLantern wrote:
Renegade enforcers backing renegade cultist blobs could make for good meat shields for knights, especially with that 5+ invul chaos knights can now dole out...

Wouldn't you then go all in, and use the 30 cultist blob or 50 Mutant blob for that?

Not Online!!! wrote:
Wouldn't you then go all in, and use the 30 cultist blob or 50 Mutant blob for that?

Cultist blobs of 30 i'd recomend for cheap screening that takes a decent amount of shooting to clear with the enforcers beating their buddies to death. Maybe throw in a couple of flamers too to deter charges, or if ya going shooty heavy stubbers and autoguns to murder other chaff

WinterLantern wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Wouldn't you then go all in, and use the 30 cultist blob or 50 Mutant blob for that?

Cultist blobs of 30 i'd recomend for cheap screening that takes a decent amount of shooting to clear with the enforcers beating their buddies to death. Maybe throw in a couple of flamers too to deter charges, or if ya going shooty heavy stubbers and autoguns to murder other chaff

I'd go with the muties.
More flesh for just 50 pts more.
Chance for T4 and other goodies.

Not Online!!! wrote:
I'd go with the muties.
More flesh for just 50 pts more.
Chance for T4 and other goodies.

I dunno, BS and WS 4+ really buffs their output so that they're little less ...useless? Though I've never tried mutants before, cos I don't have enough models or shotguns

 WinterLantern wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I'd go with the muties.
More flesh for just 50 pts more.
Chance for T4 and other goodies.

I dunno, BS and WS 4+ really buffs their output so that they're little less ...useless? Though I've never tried mutants before, cos I don't have enough models or shotguns

First off, renegade cultists are overpriced cultists, without stratagems to make them worth it.
I'd rather pay less then for the purpose of just beeing meatshield.
Als autoguns and Lasguns are available for muties aswell.

Not Online!!! wrote:
I belive we do the Battalion better then the brigade.
I'd still also go for the mortar over the stubber.

And for the autoguns on the mutants.

But yeah maybee with a bunch of knights might work.

I'd also go for command squads instead of the enforcer.

This was just an example of how cheap we can make a brigade which is alot more cp than a battalion and only takes 1 detachment slot so you can have 2 knight detachments or a deamon and knight detachment with it.
I agree mortars are better if you want them to be more than tax for an extra 27 points.
I agree the autoguns are better and easier to make.
Command sqauds or even better marauders are probably better than enforcers but they can be targeted. Enforcers are not great for msu and made for large mobs. But it costs the same points. But again just an example.
But a cp battery and screen with knights I see doing well.

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I belive we do the Battalion better then the brigade.
I'd still also go for the mortar over the stubber.

And for the autoguns on the mutants.

But yeah maybee with a bunch of knights might work.

I'd also go for command squads instead of the enforcer.

This was just an example of how cheap we can make a brigade which is alot more cp than a battalion and only takes 1 detachment slot so you can have 2 knight detachments or a deamon and knight detachment with it.
I agree mortars are better if you want them to be more than tax for an extra 27 points.
I agree the autoguns are better and easier to make.
Command sqauds or even better marauders are probably better than enforcers but they can be targeted. Enforcers are not great for msu and made for large mobs. But it costs the same points. But again just an example.
But a cp battery and screen with knights I see doing well.

Command squad is 24, the enforcer is 30.
In the spirit of going as cheap as possible it makes sense to go for the bunch of upjumped disciples no?

Not Online!!! wrote:


Command squad is 24, the enforcer is 30.
In the spirit of going as cheap as possible it makes sense to go for the bunch of upjumped disciples no?

Enforcers are more if you want the meat shield to stick around. I'd shell out for extra bodies, which would make the enforcers a stronger investment. Command squads with that banner that lets you attack post death can be surprisingly useful however in slowing down/punishing assault units that have glass jaws.

 WinterLantern wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:


Command squad is 24, the enforcer is 30.
In the spirit of going as cheap as possible it makes sense to go for the bunch of upjumped disciples no?

Enforcers are more if you want the meat shield to stick around. I'd shell out for extra bodies, which would make the enforcers a stronger investment. Command squads with that banner that lets you attack post death can be surprisingly useful however in slowing down/punishing assault units that have glass jaws.

It is, it's also usefull if you are the one assaulting as khornate bunch, which I do regularly.
Surprisingly effective, even against heavy infantry.

A Command Squad with a Command Net-Vox (or whatever they're called) isn't 24pts.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
A Command Squad with a Command Net-Vox (or whatever they're called) isn't 24pts.

34 pts.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I belive we do the Battalion better then the brigade.
I'd still also go for the mortar over the stubber.

And for the autoguns on the mutants.

But yeah maybee with a bunch of knights might work.

I'd also go for command squads instead of the enforcer.

This was just an example of how cheap we can make a brigade which is alot more cp than a battalion and only takes 1 detachment slot so you can have 2 knight detachments or a deamon and knight detachment with it.
I agree mortars are better if you want them to be more than tax for an extra 27 points.
I agree the autoguns are better and easier to make.
Command sqauds or even better marauders are probably better than enforcers but they can be targeted. Enforcers are not great for msu and made for large mobs. But it costs the same points. But again just an example.
But a cp battery and screen with knights I see doing well.

Command squad is 24, the enforcer is 30.
In the spirit of going as cheap as possible it makes sense to go for the bunch of upjumped disciples no?

Oh yeah I forgot they are only 4 man lol. Good point to save 18 more points for deamon/knights.

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I belive we do the Battalion better then the brigade.
I'd still also go for the mortar over the stubber.

And for the autoguns on the mutants.

But yeah maybee with a bunch of knights might work.

I'd also go for command squads instead of the enforcer.

This was just an example of how cheap we can make a brigade which is alot more cp than a battalion and only takes 1 detachment slot so you can have 2 knight detachments or a deamon and knight detachment with it.
I agree mortars are better if you want them to be more than tax for an extra 27 points.
I agree the autoguns are better and easier to make.
Command sqauds or even better marauders are probably better than enforcers but they can be targeted. Enforcers are not great for msu and made for large mobs. But it costs the same points. But again just an example.
But a cp battery and screen with knights I see doing well.

Command squad is 24, the enforcer is 30.
In the spirit of going as cheap as possible it makes sense to go for the bunch of upjumped disciples no?

Oh yeah I forgot they are only 4 man lol. Good point to save 18 more points for deamon/knights.

Just say it with me, units actually worth fielding.


Altough that 5++ blob of infantry with enforcer support does look enticing.

I mean that's what makes renegades a fun army for me to bust out on occasion, as hordes of basically fearless trash mean loads die and you get to throw a bunch of dice.

That banner trick however is hilarious against bloodletter bombs as a trash screen half the cost inflict surprisingly harsh casualties.


If you decide to be a madman and take a renegade warlord, a Tzeentch covenant screen being buffed with the 5+invul, banner and enforcers could make a decent screen/ kinda counterpunchy mook horde for your knight.

 WinterLantern wrote:
I mean that's what makes renegades a fun army for me to bust out on occasion, as hordes of basically fearless trash mean loads die and you get to throw a bunch of dice.

That banner trick however is hilarious against bloodletter bombs as a trash screen half the cost inflict surprisingly harsh casualties.


If you decide to be a madman and take a renegade warlord, a Tzeentch covenant screen being buffed with the 5+invul, banner and enforcers could make a decent screen/ kinda counterpunchy mook horde for your knight.

That is true. But after my 70 ish matches i kinda maybee got a bit too jaded torwards "balance".


I do think though that this also would be Handy for militia squads.

I use the Tzeentch Covenant. It makes my dudespeople exactly as effective firing Overwatch as regular shooting.

Which is still not very effective.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I use the Tzeentch Covenant. It makes my dudespeople exactly as effective firing Overwatch as regular shooting.

Which is still not very effective.

Better then nothing.
Atleast you get a full phase of dakka out before you get charged and obviously obliterated.

I'm usually pretty happy if my guys get to shoot three times; twice regular and one Overwatch. Their chance to hit is 1 in 3, so statistically they should all hit at least once.

With their flashlights.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I'm usually pretty happy if my guys get to shoot three times; twice regular and one Overwatch. Their chance to hit is 1 in 3, so statistically they should all hit at least once.

With their flashlights.

Or the occasional stubber. or mortar. or Autogun, or shotgun, or pocket flashlight, or bbgun.


i have a feeling we need to sort out our equipment issues

It's why I prefer cultists- big whoop for guardsmen level accuracy. Militia should either be dropped to 3ppm, gain a guardsmen statline or be like a sidegrade to the guard, rather than flat out inferior. Genestealer cult managed it really well.

So renegades can make a good/kinda competant chaff screen for knights with enforcers keeping blobs in place. Maybe knights and Tzeentch renegades could combo well, especially if we abuse the cheap renegade characters as summon fodder, or just flat out take an additional 1ksons or tzeentch daemon allies?

 WinterLantern wrote:
It's why I prefer cultists- big whoop for guardsmen level accuracy. Militia should either be dropped to 3ppm, gain a guardsmen statline or be like a sidegrade to the guard, rather than flat out inferior. Genestealer cult managed it really well.

So renegades can make a good/kinda competant chaff screen for knights with enforcers keeping blobs in place. Maybe knights and Tzeentch renegades could combo well, especially if we abuse the cheap renegade characters as summon fodder, or just flat out take an additional 1ksons or tzeentch daemon allies?

There is no point in cultists though, you get zero ability like csm cultists, you pay 20% more for 16% combat ability.
Lose access to mortars, voxes and special weapons ( granted only the nade launchers worth it but still)

Even mutants are better, due to maximum blob and maximum value out of the enforcer.


As for knights + tzeentch renegades.
You lose a warlord trait though for tzeentch trait.
Which is an issue / can be an issue.


Allies i'd still tend torwards knights, thousands have access to tzangoors.

I wish renegades with a covenant would gain a 'mark of' keyword equivalent so you could get around their garbage hqs


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, do ya reckon this chunky boi would be a good meat shield for knights?


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Renegades & Heretics) [36 PL, 629pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Covenant: Covenant of Slaanesh

+ HQ +

Renegade Commander [3 PL, 34pts]: 2. Inspiring Leader, Plasma pistol, Power maul, Warlord

Renegade Commander [3 PL, 25pts]: Brutal Assault weapon, Laspistol

+ Troops +

Renegade Mutant Rabble [8 PL, 160pts]
. Mutant Champion: Autopistol, Chainsword
. 39x Mutant with Lasgun

Renegade Mutant Rabble [8 PL, 160pts]
. Mutant Champion: Autopistol, Chainsword
. 39x Mutant with Lasgun

Renegade Mutant Rabble [8 PL, 160pts]
. Mutant Champion: Autopistol, Chainsword
. 39x Mutant with Lasgun

+ Elites +

Renegade Enforcer [2 PL, 30pts]: Autopistol, Brutal Assault weapon

Renegade Enforcer [2 PL, 30pts]: Autopistol, Brutal Assault weapon

Renegade Enforcer [2 PL, 30pts]: Autopistol, Brutal Assault weapon

++ Total: [36 PL, 629pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Thinking about it, it'd probs be better to ditch the covenant entirely and actuall get some use out of a warlord trait

WinterLantern -- If the goal from R+H detachment is a meatshield and CP for Knights, and especially if you're using Renegade Enforcers to manage leadership, wouldn't it be a lot more valuable to name one of your Knights as your Warlord?

NEVER MIND, I see you posted that thought.

Ditch the warlord, Ditch one enforcer.
No need to overspend on them, most of the time they get ignored.

Also give your commanders las or autoguns. No point in the pp imo.

But yes, that is a big wall of bodies.
If you get lucky you get T4 on the muties.
That would be priceless.

I'm struggling to see why you want to take R&H Cultists, honestly. CSM Cultists cost the same and are better in almost every regard.