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Models people buy and keep but never paint don't qualify as 'environmental waste'

And Plastic sprue bits are hardly unrecyclable.

I suspect/hope that the Eliminators and Chaos Marines (that we've only seen 3 each so far) are actually ETB sets including in Shadow Spear and separately.

It just seems odd to me that they would only preview 3 of each if Shadow Spear itself would come with 5 each (the minimum unit size for each, presumably)
It would be a great way to A) replace the ancient ETB Chaos Marine set and B) get the Eliminators out there quickly.

Actually, I'd be quite excited if Eliminators were a 3-min unit. It would set them apart from Scouts and emphasis the "rarity" of them
I'm not sure how I feel about them being Troops or Elites, though. If they are Troops, I'd expect them to start replacing Scouts and even Intercessors as the default Battalion filler.
If they are Elites, I could see them never hitting the table at all unless they have some amazing rules.

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Voss wrote:
Models people buy and keep but never paint don't qualify as 'environmental waste'

And Plastic sprue bits are hardly unrecyclable.

But the unrecyclable laminated cards and boards are waste as are the unrecyclable plastic inserts used for packaging.

I helped run a bits store for a while, the amount of waste was an eye opener already and has gotten much worse, it used to be mostly card.

Polystyrene is probably one of the most recyclable plastics of all, being a simple thermoplastic. You can recycle it yourself if you heat it up and have a use for molten styrene!

Although I suspect much sprue waste is just sent to landfill despite that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rayvon wrote:

Voss wrote:
Models people buy and keep but never paint don't qualify as 'environmental waste'

And Plastic sprue bits are hardly unrecyclable.

But the unrecyclable laminated cards and boards are waste as are the unrecyclable plastic inserts used for packaging.

I helped run a bits store for a while and the amount of waste was an eye opener already and has gotten much worse, it used to be mostly card.

Is this in the boardgames used as a vehicle to sell standard models, like Betrayal at Calth, as opposed to the purely 40k boxsets like Tooth and Claw? The latter has much less "waste" (depending on what you do with the boardgames) than the former.

Its the big boxed game sets like this that are the main offenders, they have a lot of stuff in that many people buying for the minis just throw away and they release so many of these nowadays as opposed to just boxes with sprues in.


Its not a huge issue but an issue that can be improved upon none the less.

Eliminators are gonna have ammo types. I wonder if those will be somewhere along the lines of SiA and if these guys will have like 7 ammo types when in Deathwatch

 Rayvon wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
I’m definitely with you on the waste issue. The nurgle stuff from the starter set and all of the contents of forgebane apart from the knights are still piles of grey plastic guilt for me. They aren’t the only examples either.

Hopefully the stuff will be sold separately soon. But the box sets are such good value that you’re virtually getting the other faction’s stuff for free. I can easily see myself getting the set if the rules are good, because I’ll need the models in time take to a tournament in March.

Yea I cannot blame people for buying and I know that a lot of people will buy it just because of the price, I am a big GW fan but it makes me sad that they have such a horrible environmental impact with all the unrecyclable waste they have been producing recently.

Agreed. I actually work for an environmental charity and we're doing a big thing about plastic waste at the moment. It's a bit awkward!

My least favourite thing is that they've started putting black plastic packaging around the frames in boxes, for stuff like kill team models and some of the primaris characters. That stuff should be recyclable (actually it shouldn't exist at all since it does nothing) but the fact that it's black means the machines can't see it.

Honestly GW aren't the worst. They have a bunch of solar panels on their factory roof, which is nice. But there's an awful lot more they could do. These sets are definitely wasteful.

 Galef wrote:
I suspect/hope that the Eliminators and Chaos Marines (that we've only seen 3 each so far) are actually ETB sets including in Shadow Spear and separately.

It just seems odd to me that they would only preview 3 of each if Shadow Spear itself would come with 5 each (the minimum unit size for each, presumably)
It would be a great way to A) replace the ancient ETB Chaos Marine set and B) get the Eliminators out there quickly.

We know there's at least two more CSM that didn't get previewed but were in the video. One had what looked like a meltagun and one had the same helmet as the boltgun armed CSM from the photo preview, but a box instead of a magazine for the ammo feed.

Actually, I'd be quite excited if Eliminators were a 3-min unit. It would set them apart from Scouts and emphasis the "rarity" of them
I'm not sure how I feel about them being Troops or Elites, though. If they are Troops, I'd expect them to start replacing Scouts and even Intercessors as the default Battalion filler.
If they are Elites, I could see them never hitting the table at all unless they have some amazing rules.

-

Them being a 3 minimum unit would be...interesting. I could see them being a max of 3, but being able to deploy and operate separately once the game starts...but I guess they could also just be units of 3 ala Aggressors or Inceptors.

I'm thinking it's just that there's a 'unit upgrade' option for both items they don't want to show off just yet.

 Galef wrote:
I suspect/hope that the Eliminators and Chaos Marines (that we've only seen 3 each so far) are actually ETB sets including in Shadow Spear and separately.

It just seems odd to me that they would only preview 3 of each if Shadow Spear itself would come with 5 each (the minimum unit size for each, presumably)
It would be a great way to A) replace the ancient ETB Chaos Marine set and B) get the Eliminators out there quickly.

Actually, I'd be quite excited if Eliminators were a 3-min unit. It would set them apart from Scouts and emphasis the "rarity" of them
I'm not sure how I feel about them being Troops or Elites, though. If they are Troops, I'd expect them to start replacing Scouts and even Intercessors as the default Battalion filler.
If they are Elites, I could see them never hitting the table at all unless they have some amazing rules.

-

Dunno if it is any indicator, but the old push fit CSM are No Longer Available on the US store.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Actually, I'd be quite excited if Eliminators were a 3-min unit. It would set them apart from Scouts and emphasis the "rarity" of them
I'm not sure how I feel about them being Troops or Elites, though. If they are Troops, I'd expect them to start replacing Scouts and even Intercessors as the default Battalion filler.
If they are Elites, I could see them never hitting the table at all unless they have some amazing rules.

-

Them being a 3 minimum unit would be...interesting. I could see them being a max of 3, but being able to deploy and operate separately once the game starts.

In any case, I'm getting tired of the "min 5 for all Infantry that aren't close to monster sized" philosophy GW has lately. It would be refreshing to see some units operating as 3-man specialty teams.
3-min does not have to be reserves for Bikers and larger bulky Infantry. Regular Joes should be able to work at 3-min.

-

 DominayTrix wrote:

Dunno if it is any indicator, but the old push fit CSM are No Longer Available on the US store.

The Ork Boyz one went to "No Longer Available" when their book came out, but they're back now under the "Easy To Build" banner.

I've been kinda/sorta wondering if we'll see the Blackstone Fortress "enemies" sprue made available by itself.

Eliminators could easily be a 3-man team like aggressors and Inceptors. In fact that's what I expect, now we've seen the photo of three together. If anything I'm a little worried that the two kneeling guys look like the exact same model, so wondering if these are ETB rather than full kits.

If anything for Primaris is troops in this release then I think it'll be those guys in the reiver armour with bolt rifles. And that would be cool.

I do wonder what else there'll be for marines in the box. CSM have obliterators, troops and that spider thing, plus at least one character. It also looks like there's a posessed marine on the art pic. Marines seem to have troops, snipers, a librarian and probably a captain/lieutenant. It feels like something's missing from the marine side of things but there's nothing on the picture (which I'm taking to be the box art) that it could easily be. That said, snipers aren't in that pic either.

Mandragola wrote:
Eliminators could easily be a 3-man team like aggressors and Inceptors. In fact that's what I expect, now we've seen the photo of three together. If anything I'm a little worried that the two kneeling guys look like the exact same model, so wondering if these are ETB rather than full kits.

The ETB kits have come after full kits. And no ETB products have been in these 'battleboxes'.

There have been "Combat Squad" sized boxes(5 rather than 10 Intercessors and Reivers) but that's been as "streamlined" as they get.

If anything for Primaris is troops in this release then I think it'll be those guys in the reiver armour with bolt rifles. And that would be cool.

I do wonder what else there'll be for marines in the box. CSM have obliterators, troops and that spider thing, plus at least one character. It also looks like there's a posessed marine on the art pic. Marines seem to have troops, snipers, a librarian and probably a captain/lieutenant. It feels like something's missing from the marine side of things but there's nothing on the picture (which I'm taking to be the box art) that it could easily be. That said, snipers aren't in that pic either.

There's a Lieutenant/Captain(I'm saying Lieutenant personally) in the art as "Primarisized Telion", the Librarian, the Vanguard "troopers", and the unpictured Eliminators.

Several people have said there's a minigun looking weapon on one of the Vanguard troopers but I'm not seeing it.

it's hilarious how people already jump their horses calling kits ETB because they didn't show full unit size firsthand

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Snake Tortoise wrote:
I think I'm going to have to buy up chaos terminators out of fear their models go the way of those ridiculous obliterators. Often less is more, and just because you can throw more detail onto models doesn't mean you should, especially if they are monopose

Unless they are daemonically posessed terminators, i wouldnt worry. Look at the new generic chaos marines, that is a better basis.

I also wouldn't by them now anyway since most folks hate those models. You would be able to get them from ebay for a song I'm guessing.

 aracersss wrote:
it's hilarious how people already jump their horses calling kits ETB because they didn't show full unit size firsthand

ETB? Evil Twin Brother? Estimated Time of Berthing?

https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/ETB

 Galef wrote:
I suspect/hope that the Eliminators and Chaos Marines (that we've only seen 3 each so far) are actually ETB sets including in Shadow Spear and separately.

It just seems odd to me that they would only preview 3 of each if Shadow Spear itself would come with 5 each (the minimum unit size for each, presumably)
It would be a great way to A) replace the ancient ETB Chaos Marine set and B) get the Eliminators out there quickly.

Actually, I'd be quite excited if Eliminators were a 3-min unit. It would set them apart from Scouts and emphasis the "rarity" of them
I'm not sure how I feel about them being Troops or Elites, though. If they are Troops, I'd expect them to start replacing Scouts and even Intercessors as the default Battalion filler.
If they are Elites, I could see them never hitting the table at all unless they have some amazing rules.

-

I'm guessing there are some doubles in there in the eliminators case. Like, you just swap heads on a couple to get to 5. The CSM could be the two from black Stone maybe, IDK about that one since I never saw the sprews, probably unlikely given how they normally pack those.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:

 aracersss wrote:
it's hilarious how people already jump their horses calling kits ETB because they didn't show full unit size firsthand

ETB? Evil Twin Brother? Estimated Time of Berthing?

https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/ETB

Easy To Build

 Kanluwen wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Eliminators could easily be a 3-man team like aggressors and Inceptors. In fact that's what I expect, now we've seen the photo of three together. If anything I'm a little worried that the two kneeling guys look like the exact same model, so wondering if these are ETB rather than full kits.

The ETB kits have come after full kits.

But that's not true though, is it? I could have sworn Reivers & Aggressors were ETB before their full kit was released.

I agree with you though that these Battle Boxes often have unique sprues or just the sprues for the full kits. But there are several kits that are ALL ETB models.
It wouldn't be far fetched if the Eliminators & Chaos Marines shown were the same sculpts as the ETB kits that will hopefully release alongside Shadow Spear.

After all, the ETB Intercessors have "duplicates" in Dark Imperium that use the same CAD design with minor tweaks, like pistol/pouches in different spots.
The ETB Sgt and the unhelmeted Sgt from DI being an example of the exact same model/pose with slight differences on the belt.

-

I'm 99% sure all of this will be monopose kits. This is basically a new starter set. Everything is a new model.

 Galef wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Eliminators could easily be a 3-man team like aggressors and Inceptors. In fact that's what I expect, now we've seen the photo of three together. If anything I'm a little worried that the two kneeling guys look like the exact same model, so wondering if these are ETB rather than full kits.

The ETB kits have come after full kits.

But that's not true though, is it? I could have sworn Reivers & Aggressors were ETB before their full kit was released.

I agree with you though that these Battle Boxes often have unique sprues or just the sprues for the full kits. But there are several kits that are ALL ETB models.
It wouldn't be far fetched if the Eliminators & Chaos Marines shown were the same sculpts as the ETB kits that will hopefully release alongside Shadow Spear.

After all, the ETB Intercessors have "duplicates" in Dark Imperium that use the same CAD design with minor tweaks, like pistol/pouches in different spots.
The ETB Sgt and the unhelmeted Sgt from DI being an example

-

Also worth noting that on the AoS side the ETB models for Sequitors were released prior to full kit and one could fairly say that Soul Wars was effectively an assortment of ETB models as well. It's a bit of a different scenario from the 40k boxed games released lately since that was marketed as a true starter set (with the full rulebook,etc.) and not as a bulk-buy of extant sprues but it does mean that there is precedent for GW boxes being essentially ETB versions. Shadowspear was also likely designed after Soul Wars (and Blackstone Fortress, which was also mostly ETB-equivalent) which may be more indicative of GW's current design.

Time will tell of course.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:
I'm 99% sure all of this will be monopose kits. This is basically a new starter set. Everything is a new model.

except it follows vigilus 2nd book oO ... gw rarely (iff ever currently) makes a campaign boxset ETB

 Galef wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Eliminators could easily be a 3-man team like aggressors and Inceptors. In fact that's what I expect, now we've seen the photo of three together. If anything I'm a little worried that the two kneeling guys look like the exact same model, so wondering if these are ETB rather than full kits.

The ETB kits have come after full kits.

But that's not true though, is it? I could have sworn Reivers & Aggressors were ETB before their full kit was released.

Reivers came before theirs--that's my bad. I forgot that they were part of the initial push coupled around the starter set and the secondary starter sets. They went up for preorder July 8th.


Codex: Space Marines came with the full kit for Reivers, Aggressors, and the Redemptor.

In October the Aggressors and Redemptors got their ETB kit.

I agree with you though that these Battle Boxes often have unique sprues or just the sprues for the full kits.

Not "unique" sprues, unless you're suggesting that the Intercessors and Reivers don't actually have 5 man Combat Squads available.

But there are several kits that are ALL ETB models.
It wouldn't be far fetched if the Eliminators & Chaos Marines shown were the same sculpts as the ETB kits that will hopefully release alongside Shadow Spear.

After all, the ETB Intercessors have "duplicates" in Dark Imperium that use the same CAD design with minor tweaks, like pistol/pouches in different spots.
The ETB Sgt and the unhelmeted Sgt from DI being an example of the exact same model/pose with slight differences on the belt.
-

And here's where I think the problem lies. You're thinking of this as a Dark Imperium analogue--it's not. I really don't expect there to be ETB kits releasing alongside of it.

At least for the snipers it doesn't mucy matter if they're easy to build or not, as the cloak limits drastically their poseabilty anyway.

Yeah Soul Wars was what I was thinking of as the precedent for this box.

The models look like they might well be easy-to-build. I’m not certain that’s the case, but for now that’s my theory. And yes, of course we’ve often have ETB versions of minis before the full kits came out – indeed that was the case for all of the initial Primaris and Death Guard releases. The core set was all ETB, with full kits released later on.

Mandragola wrote:
Yeah Soul Wars was what I was thinking of as the precedent for this box.

The models look like they might well be easy-to-build. I’m not certain that’s the case, but for now that’s my theory. And yes, of course we’ve often have ETB versions of minis before the full kits came out – indeed that was the case for all of the initial Primaris and Death Guard releases. The core set was all ETB, with full kits released later on.

Okay we need to specify some stuff here:

"Easy to Build" is a specific line of things that GW releases, at a lower price point. They actually have a tab under both systems so you can sort that stuff out.
Starter sets like Dark Imperium or Soul Wars, while functionally the same concept of pushfit models...aren't considered Easy to Build. I don't know why they do this.
"Battlebox" sets like Shadowspear, Wake the Dead, Carrion Empire, etc. These are full kits bundled into a cheaper package.

They seem to have a pattern of ETB being tied to 3 units from the starter set and 1 "new" unit that will be present in the army book and a smaller starter set but not the big starter set for the initial launch.

AoS made things a bit wonky though as they launched the ETB straight off with the starter set, rather than waiting a month or so like they did with 40k.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I suspect/hope that the Eliminators and Chaos Marines (that we've only seen 3 each so far) are actually ETB sets including in Shadow Spear and separately.

It just seems odd to me that they would only preview 3 of each if Shadow Spear itself would come with 5 each (the minimum unit size for each, presumably)
It would be a great way to A) replace the ancient ETB Chaos Marine set and B) get the Eliminators out there quickly.

We know there's at least two more CSM that didn't get previewed but were in the video. One had what looked like a meltagun and one had the same helmet as the boltgun armed CSM from the photo preview, but a box instead of a magazine for the ammo feed.

Actually, I'd be quite excited if Eliminators were a 3-min unit. It would set them apart from Scouts and emphasis the "rarity" of them
I'm not sure how I feel about them being Troops or Elites, though. If they are Troops, I'd expect them to start replacing Scouts and even Intercessors as the default Battalion filler.
If they are Elites, I could see them never hitting the table at all unless they have some amazing rules.

-

Them being a 3 minimum unit would be...interesting. I could see them being a max of 3, but being able to deploy and operate separately once the game starts...but I guess they could also just be units of 3 ala Aggressors or Inceptors.

I'm thinking it's just that there's a 'unit upgrade' option for both items they don't want to show off just yet.

If you look at pg 9 of this thread, there is a screen cap of the CSM with drum mag bolter next to the previewed trio. I am pretty sure all 4 shown there have different helmets which is great!

Voss wrote:
Models people buy and keep but never paint don't qualify as 'environmental waste'

And Plastic sprue bits are hardly unrecyclable.

Yes, they are. Anything purchased that then just sits around in one's home or garage is a waste of natural resources that were not put to any purpose. Not to preach, but all humans must dramatically reduce their consumption. Recycling doesn't solve everything, either. The process still requires energy, does not have a %100 conversion rate from used plastic to a new product, and can only be done so many times before the plastic has to be thrown away.

 fraser1191 wrote:
Eliminators are gonna have ammo types. I wonder if those will be somewhere along the lines of SiA and if these guys will have like 7 ammo types when in Deathwatch

I'm thinking those are 'sniper rifles' and not bolters, so maybe they will work like "Sniper Rifles with SIA" rather than having their own variety.

Has anyone commented that the same image that shows the additional CSM with the drum mag also shows a CSM holding a melta gun in the background? So that's actually at least a 5-man squad for CSM. By inference, we can probably expect Eliminators to also come in a squad of 5 (or more).

Also, I'm nearly positive based on the composition of main art image that we've seen that this image has been cropped so as not to show a significant portion of the Primaris force on the left side—probably a vehicle (or vehicles) of some kind. I don't have a lot of hard support for that—just an artist's hunch based on the way the forces arranged in the frame and the odd ways certain elements and figures break the frame edges. The only solid proof I have is that the opener shows at least a little more of the left-hand side of the artwork than the static image does—like you can see a few more of the Eliminator's waaaay in the back just above Mr. Beardy's raised bolt rifle.

 Kanluwen wrote:
[There's a Lieutenant/Captain(I'm saying Lieutenant personally) in the art as "Primarisized Telion", the Librarian, the Vanguard "troopers", and the unpictured Eliminators.

Several people have said there's a minigun looking weapon on one of the Vanguard troopers but I'm not seeing it.

The "minigun" looks like a bolter with a lot of muzzle flash to my eyes. I do think "Primarisized Telion" is a Captain as he has the chest clasp and aiguillette's that GW like to use on SM Captains. But I think there is a Lieutenant in the picture as well. The Riever/Vanguard chap just below "Telion" is sporting a Lieutenant's emblem on his left shoulder.