Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm nearly sold on this, the remaining factor being the (blind) blister card packs and the price. If the core box is over 130€, it's gonna be a hard sell.

JSG wrote:
How are the rules half finished and how is this different from rules in WD or Town Cryer twenty years ago?

Do you play Necromunda? That was the table-top equivalent of a Steam Early Access game.

And this is not made by the same people, and not even the same team or it had anything look like the Necromunda situation.

Necromunda was fighting for its life with sale determine if it get continue production while Warcry got a whole season 1 in the bag before release.

You think Necromunda went on sale without the other 4 gangs already designed?

To be honest, the part I'm looking for is the campaign system. It was really disappointing in Kill Team, barely a skeleton to work on. I really hope they're making something consistent, with a satisfying experience / rewards system and a more immersive "post-game" phase.

Competitive and tournament games are fun for a while only. What really makes Mordheim play by people still nowadays is the campaign and the way you can see your warband truly evolve (sometimes devolve ) as games pass on, and this RPG feeling. I don't expect Warcry to be like Mordheim, but I still hope people like Bottle will manage to make something worthy.

That not all the warbands are available at launch is a bit annoying, sure, but it was expected sadly.

I'm very tempted by the core set, and going by the previous core box for KT, it would be a good idea to pick this up sooner rather than later.

May just wait for the Unmade warband and restrain myself, I'm already invested in BSF.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You think Necromunda went on sale without the other 4 gangs already designed?

Artist can draw a million sketches and all of those would mean nothing if the production ceased. Drawing sketches doesn't cost a lot of money.

So no Free People/Witch Hunters but Sigmarines. Not unexpected, but unexciting. Now I can't use my Witch Hunter force without heavy proxying.

A few random thoughts:

- Will Ironjawz be one of/THE most elite band? They don't come in large boxes and are expensive warscroll wise.

- I hope that the terrain set is either super cheap or I can get the rules stuff cheaply from ebay, I already have a spooky graveyard. I could use some more of the OLD woods, another watchtower and the plastic house/chapell from WHFB...or just re-release the Fortified Manor set.

- I need my snake dudes and bird(wo)men NOW, not weird headgear folk

- The starter would be much nicer with better looking Raptoryxes...so much plastic real estate is used for those things.

"Edit" because I accidentally hit the submit button early on my phone.

 stonehorse wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
Still no insight in to how it plays other than being to AoS what KT is to 40k.

Well, how does AoS and 40K play nower days? Set To Hit and To Wound rolls, Rend/Damage results, oodles of aura abilities, and points to spend on stratagems that are on cards. GW's apples don't fall far from their trees.

True enough, I just wish GW would show off more of their creative ideas when it comes to game design. We have seen several smaller games produced that broke away from the tired dice mechanics, and those were and remain a joy to behold.

I wonder if the game is complete at sale, or is it going to be another excuse to sell additional rule books later on like with KT? I do think that GW are taking a lesson from the likes of the video game industry and selling half finished rules that later on have the rest of the rules sold across several products, 40K and KT seem to be following this pattern.

If GW intends for Killteam and Warcry to be leaders into their other games then it makes sense that they roughly keep a similar structure and inclusion of dice and mechanics. To GW they are not trying to make Killteam nor Warcry into totally separate products, but supporting and introduction products. The idea is that Warcy/Killteam offer really small format games where one box of models can buy you enough to get started. One purchase and you're playing the game. That's lowering the introduction bar dramatically in terms of purchasing requirements, complexity of entry, costs and time required to get the team put together. GW is hoping that you buy into these games and then also buy into bigger and bigger armies - moving onto the Meeting Engagements at 1K points, moving into full games at 2K and likely moving into whatever they call Apoc for AoS. One product leads into the next.
Plus because GW is marketing and packaging them up existing gamers also take part, creating games for the newbies to get involved with rather than leaving them off in a corner on their own. In addition Warcry/Killteam also appeal to mature gamers who might not have huge amounts of free time for 3 or 4 hour games as often as they'd like. So offering a game that can be done and dusted in under an hour is a big thing.


As for expanding rules I think the key is to realise that one reason GW has done the rules expansions as they did, moving them on in phases, is because it leaves GW in a stronger position to stop supporting the game. Take Necromunda, they released it in expansion waves, building up the content and complexity and yet at each stage if GW found sales to be shockingly small they could have stopped, leaving the game in a "complete and functional state". It's basically GW testing the waters and then slowly dipping their feet in further and very different to computer game situations.
GW has, in the past, been burned by specialist games failing to sell well - in part because of the market and in part because of GW's marketing at the time. so GW is being really cautious this time around, they are basically requiring the market to say YES WE WANT THIS in terms of open wallets and actual sales, not just lots of people saying "we want this". That's a big difference because the former makes GW money, the latter wastes GW's resources.



I'm sure we'll likely see this game advance just like Killteam - starting with basic warbands and then developing into bigger monsters over time.

Also lets note some of the interesting featuers unique to it - NPC Mobs on the table (demons) and also a singleplayer campaign system that lets you campaign and run a narrative for a warband without having to be part of any formal organised group of players. That in iteslf could be a massive thing not just for this but for games like necromunda as well. Growing your team is part of the fun for many, but at the same time that requires and organised setup, a person overseeing the matches etc.... It you can do away with that and have the narrative story telling growth but without any strict organisation then that's a fantastic thing

 Hanskrampf wrote:
I'm nearly sold on this, the remaining factor being the (blind) blister card packs and the price. If the core box is over 130€, it's gonna be a hard sell.

The card packs almost 100% aren't blind fortunately. I think a lot of people are just assuming this because the packaging looks like CCG packaging.

From GW's website:

For the card packs:

"Each set contains an abilities card, plus fighter cards for every model you can use in these warbands."

And from the Cypher Lords:

"This warband set contains models plus rules for using them in your games in the form of sets of cards. An abilities card allows you to master the underhanded tactics, dazzling ploys and special moves available to the Cypher Lords. Meanwhile, a set of fighter cards make checking the characteristics for your warriors simple."

From reading those it seems each faction has a single abilities card and a number of fighter cards. Everything you need to play that faction in one pack. It wouldn't make a lot of sense if the non-Chaos factions had multiple "collectible" abilities cards while the Chaos warbands do not, because they aren't the emphasis of the game. Since you get the cards in each Warband box, if there was a collectible aspect GW would be asking people to be buying a full warband to gamble on getting an ability card. I don't see that happening.

From the Open Day I attended, where we first saw the Orlock's, the info we were given was consistent - Van Saar were mostly there, but Cawdor and Delaque were still in development.

Now, that taken at face value? Yes, it does appear Necromunda went on sale with the other 4 gangs already designed.

But can we take it at face value? I'll leave to your own discretion.

JSG wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
video game industry... half finished rules.

Christ.

How are the rules half finished and how is this different from rules in WD or Town Cryer twenty years ago?

Any product where someone needs to buy a monthly/yearly product to play the game is a game that has been sold half finished. 40k 8th edition has had so many changes made to the core rules that the main rule book is already outdated.

Kill Team has rules spread over 3 and soon to be 4 rule books now.

Things like codex, army books are fine as they don't alter the core rules, and aren't needed to play the core rules.

GW with a few of their games seem to be going down the path of selling patches/beta rules. This could be due to how fast their sales model is now, every week we get new things, back in the day 25 years ago, it was a small release over a month or even months. This speed may be why we are seeing the increase in erratas and things like GHB/Chapter Approved.

I hope they are making more than a dozen copies of the starter set... Due to "life stuff" I won't be able to pick it up until the end of August, and by then I'm guessing the starter box will be well and truly sold out. :(

In the case of Warcry, the question doesn't need to be asked. It is clear that all the starting warbands are designed. We saw all of the miniatures painted, already.

Reason why they are not all present at launch is a marketing/logistic issue, I have no doubt.

 Overread wrote:

In addition Warcry/Killteam also appeal to mature gamers who might not have huge amounts of free time for 3 or 4 hour games as often as they'd like. So offering a game that can be done and dusted in under an hour is a big thing.

This is the absolute truth for me. I don't have a ton of time for 3 or 4 hour games, and I don't have a ton of space for gaming in my condo. Being able to play a game in under an hour on the dining table is such an enormous advantage for me compared to something that requires a 6'x4' table and that I have to essentially devote a day to for playing. I can play a game of Warcry on a work day or a day that I have other plans no problems. Also, most my gaming buddies are in similar situations. They love miniature games, but they don't have the time to assemble and paint a huge army of models and then play games that take 3 or 4 hours, so publishing games like this is really useful to hit a part of the market GW had missed out on under their previous leadership.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
From the Open Day I attended, where we first saw the Orlock's, the info we were given was consistent - Van Saar were mostly there, but Cawdor and Delaque were still in development.

Now, that taken at face value? Yes, it does appear Necromunda went on sale with the other 4 gangs already designed.

But can we take it at face value? I'll leave to your own discretion.

you can also look at the sprues, the Escher & Goliaths are 2017, Cawdor, Orlocks & Delesque are 2018 (can't find a good online shot of the Van Saar), and we've seen that they date the sprues when they're first designed from the releases of some pretty old stuff which supports the idea that the game wasn't finished in plastic when it launched (even if they did have concepts of what they were planning to do)

 Sarouan wrote:
In the case of Warcry, the question doesn't need to be asked. It is clear that all the starting warbands are designed. We saw all of the miniatures painted, already.

Reason why they are not all present at launch is a marketing/logistic issue, I have no doubt.

They're not just "Designed", they have a physical plastic box of ALL teams on display cabinet, which mean the money already spent, the molds are made, the packaging, printing are in process.

My facebook purveyor of fine model kits has just been told the UK cost by his GW rep

Warcry Starter Set - Warhammer Age of Sigmar £100 - Due 03/08/19

 stonehorse wrote:

JSG wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
video game industry... half finished rules.

Christ.

How are the rules half finished and how is this different from rules in WD or Town Cryer twenty years ago?

Any product where someone needs to buy a monthly/yearly product to play the game is a game that has been sold half finished. 40k 8th edition has had so many changes made to the core rules that the main rule book is already outdated.

Kill Team has rules spread over 3 and soon to be 4 rule books now.

Things like codex, army books are fine as they don't alter the core rules, and aren't needed to play the core rules.

GW with a few of their games seem to be going down the path of selling patches/beta rules. This could be due to how fast their sales model is now, every week we get new things, back in the day 25 years ago, it was a small release over a month or even months. This speed may be why we are seeing the increase in erratas and things like GHB/Chapter Approved.

I guess I don't really understand your point? You can play Kill Team with just the Core Book (in fact the league at LGS only uses the Core Book). The other books are expansions which you can choose to add to the game if they interest you.

Would you make the same statement about a game like Dungeons and Dragons? D&D has dozens of books available to players that all add new content and new rules (many of which modify core rulebook rules/ offer alternatives to them), but you only need the core three to play the game. Would that also be a half-finished product?

I can understand being frustrated about errata that is out at publication or very shortly afterwards, but a lot of errata/ FAQs are in response to player feedback about games (in most gaming companies), so I don't really see a problem with companies trying to make their games more appealing to their players.

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just not sure how you are connecting the video game model (I'm assuming with companies like EA, not companies who release legitimate expansions at later dates that offer more content and cost money) to what GW did with KT and may do with Warcry?

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
My facebook purveyor of fine model kits has just been told the UK cost by his GW rep

Warcry Starter Set - Warhammer Age of Sigmar £100 - Due 03/08/19

I was about to say this when they announce the two week pre-order but forgot.

And there are people who are certain when GW say July 2019 meant game is released in July. Oh no the trickery! I was right about the pre-order July, release August

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
My facebook purveyor of fine model kits has just been told the UK cost by his GW rep

Warcry Starter Set - Warhammer Age of Sigmar £100 - Due 03/08/19

Not so bad then at £100 €130 $170

£80 at online discounters hopefully they made enough to go around

Any other prices?

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
My facebook purveyor of fine model kits has just been told the UK cost by his GW rep

Warcry Starter Set - Warhammer Age of Sigmar £100 - Due 03/08/19

This means next Saturday I've got to sit on the refresh page on my "purveyor of fine model kits" website to get an order in early because darn they are going to fly off the shelves at that price!

100 Pounds seems like a pretty fair price for the amount of stuff in the Starter.

Chopstick wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
My facebook purveyor of fine model kits has just been told the UK cost by his GW rep

Warcry Starter Set - Warhammer Age of Sigmar £100 - Due 03/08/19

I was about to say this when they announce the two week pre-order but forgot.

And there are people who are certain when GW say July 2019 meant game is released in July. Oh no the trickery! I was right about the pre-order July, release August

Honestly I'd wager it was supposed to be in July but Sylvanath getting delayed as long as it did left GW with a major release that needed a week of its own and wasn't something they could keep putting off. So they bumped Warcy down one week, a pain for GW to be sure, but chances are they had to do it because otherwise Sylvanath could have been coming out after GW markets a fresh wave of new Battletomes which isn't good marketing. This is assuming we get new Battletome details this coming weekend - which is what most are expecting considering this is the year GW is pushing out lots of Battletomes for AoS and that we've now got all the battletomes out in the wild that GW has marketed (or at least close enough to the wild).

 Overread wrote:


Honestly I'd wager it was supposed to be in July but Sylvanath getting delayed as long as it did left GW with a major release that needed a week of its own and wasn't something they could keep putting off. So they bumped Warcy down one week, a pain for GW to be sure, but chances are they had to do it because otherwise Sylvanath could have been coming out after GW markets a fresh wave of new Battletomes which isn't good marketing. This is assuming we get new Battletome details this coming weekend - which is what most are expecting considering this is the year GW is pushing out lots of Battletomes for AoS and that we've now got all the battletomes out in the wild that GW has marketed (or at least close enough to the wild).

Just trying to save people from the impending disappointment. Because they'd pulled this on me before.

Mostly interested in seeing how customizable the teams will be (as miniatures, as well as in game terms). These Chaos bands do resemble the fixed poses/weapons of Shadespire, but could turn out to be like the Necromunda sets. If there is the option to actually increase the number of warriors in your warband, you'd either have to start with only part of a box, or get a duplicate set for reinforcements (not much else in their range after all, aside from critters and monsters that could join them). From my understanding, Kill Team has a number of troop types per faction and some weapon options, but is fairly limited overall. The video mentions warbands getting "new weapons", but that could still be that your axe is now Khar'chuck, a magical axe that allows you to re-roll 1s to wound. For the non-chaos factions, you may end up requiring several boxes for a diversity of troops, so I wonder if the "These are just one of a host of new warbands on the way – some of which we’ve already seen…" refers to easier starting kits with a mixture of troops for the other factions, or we are to see more Chaos warbands too. Could be both.

Shame the terrain isn't a bit more neutral, but has statues carved into pretty much every pillar. Not a huge fan of the "paint by the numbers" nature of these background tables either, with an astonishing 10 names and 6 background origins. Works ok for a single RPG character, but doesn't create much of a coherent background story for a warband - I'd rather see that space used for some paragraphs of information about the history, culture and conventions of the faction, so that those into that sort of thing can genuinely create something.

EDIT: Hmm, 130€ for the full box and 40€ per warband is a bit steeper than hoped for. Perhaps not unexpected, but still. Suppose that's what happens when they have different poses rather than a duplicate sprue as in the 30ish€ Blood Bowl or Necromunda sets, which at least contain 10-12 models... And then you might or might not end up requiring a second set for full gameplay.

zamerion wrote:

Spoiler:

Thanks man!

Very glad the starter is 130, given the recent price increases, I was really worried that they would bump it up to 150 or 160.

Of course this goes on pre-order the same week as the BattleTech kickstarter.

Thanks for the price list OP updated with prices and other currency equivalents where I could find them

£5 per card pack is about what I expected so at least they kept them cheap(ish).