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Made in us
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Home Base: Waconia, MN (Minneapolis)

There is one more serum. Karli or Zemo has it. Theyre going to inject Sam against his will either while dying at the hand of New cap (karli) or because for all Zemos talking he needs the exception that proves the rule and that's Sam.

Also it was interesting to me the stark difference Sam and Battlestar. Battlestar never really understood what he was getting into. Sam trained regularly with super humans and got to a level using experience and tech to offset at least untrained superhuman abilities

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Member of the Ethereal Council






I think the thing about the flagsmashers is they make total sense in how they are portrayed.
They are a group of people who got some form of power, with an ideology they want, but no way to actually get to it.
They are just ordinary people who have a place they want to be, but no map on how to be there. They want things to go back to how it was before the "Blip" but they never said how they are going to get there.
ITs emphasized by the fact that sam can pretty much take Karlie one on one in a fight, despite not actually being a super solider, because he can fight, he nows what he is doing, but she just flails her arms.

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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 LordofHats wrote:
If Falcon and Carly weren't explaining what is going on in the world, I wouldn't know.
Lends more credence to this theory:



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USA

That's maybe one of the only YouTube fan theory videos I've seen that actually has a coherent string of logic behind it's ideas and makes a fair amount of sense.

There is definitely a feeling of something missing in the series. I could also see how Disney would find themselves suddenly averse to a 'lets steal the vaccines *America has entered the chat*" plot for various IRL reasons that they might decide would hurt their brand more than this odd issue in Falcon & WS. I mean, I'd still rate the series thus far as a 8/10. It's pretty good, bit run of the mill for the MCU but what else were we expecting? It's definitely such now that we're focused on Zemo and Walker though, and the Flag Smashers feel lore like the tacked on part of the plot than the main thrust.

One question that I think is still glaring is how Carly and co. got the serum. Like I know they've 'explained' it, but that explanation feels extremely transparently cheap to me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/12 01:10:00


   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






I feel like any changes to the story is due to filming being interrupted by the pandemic. WandfaVision had some changes for that reason and F&WS was doing it's filming during the same times. It won't be until after Loki that we get past that being an issue.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 LordofHats wrote:
That's maybe one of the only YouTube fan theory videos I've seen that actually has a coherent string of logic behind it's ideas and makes a fair amount of sense.
Probably because it's less of a "Here's who's behind it all and why!!!" sort of video, and more looking at the production of the show itself.

It seems plausible because there seems to be some gaps in the series, and the note about certain dialogue being said, but not spoken on-screen is interesting. Shows how much something can change in editing.

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"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
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First time Latvia came up I thought it said Latveria for a second. Hopes deleted.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
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Fixture of Dakka







I agree, that all seems very plausible
   
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South East London

I'm so glad I am not the only one that was thinking I had missed something.

Was gonna go back and re-watch some of the movies as I felt I had missed one, lol.

"Dig in and wait for Winter" 
   
Made in us
Noble Knight of the Realm






Walker being the villain would be rather bad idea, especially considering that the storyline they are taking didn't do that, even when Cap came back he was just the antagonist, not the villain, and was still a good guy all things considered.

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Making Stuff






Under the couch

MarkNorfolk wrote:

As is Walker. The locker room scene at the start wasn't quite enough to bring me in on his side. But then maybe it wasn't meant to, not really. He was always going to be a pretender and it was only a matter of time before he failed.

Exactly. We weren't supposed to like him. I came across a rather interesting thread on Twitter yesterday that breaks down all the subtle clues in his costume that instinctively cultivate that dislike. Some of it may be reaching a little, but things like the costume not quite fitting him correctly around the shoulders, and the mask having reshaped eye and cheek pieces and a wider chinstrap to completely alter the shape of his face - someone suggested that the mask is actually styled from Red Skull's face, and the red on his costume is also a match for Red's skin.




 
   
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Devon, UK




I want them to do it too.

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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

In the trailers showing Sam/Bucky using the shield, those seem to take place right at the end of the series. Seems Marvel showed us the end before they showed us the beginning.

 insaniak wrote:
... someone suggested that the mask is actually styled from Red Skull's face, and the red on his costume is also a match for Red's skin.
And Mephisto is behind it all!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/12 23:15:41


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"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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To be clear, they weren't suggesting that Red Skull was involved in any way. Just that the shape of the mask is reminscent of him. The brows are lowered and drawn in, as opposed to Steve's more open, rounded eye pieces. The flaps that sit just in front of the ears sit flush against Steve's head, while on Walker they jut out, creating a protruding cheekbone effect. And the wider chinstrap closes in the mouth and chin area, making his face look rounder than it is. The end result is to look like it fits awkwardly, while also conveying a slightly sinister aspect without being super obvious about it.

 
   
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Or, y'know, it's just a mask.

I really wish that D+ would release these shows at once. The week-long gap between each episode is actually hurting these shows, as the wild speculation and theorycrafting just takes up too much space and makes too much noise.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/12 23:54:11


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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Or, y'know, it's just a mask.


I'd normally agree, but they're going to such a length to make him look disheveled (and almost strung out) that the mask being intentionally 'sinster' doesn't strike me as far fetched.
It takes a lot of work to make a light blonde beard look that scruffy, and its gotten intentionally worse from episode to episode. There are a lot of other marks (especially on the neck) that Hollywood doesn't normally show off on actors.
They're just waving a lot of 'Bad Man' signal flags when it comes to his face (and I say that as someone with an attachment to facial hair)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/13 00:24:09


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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Or, y'know, it's just a mask.

I really wish that D+ would release these shows at once. The week-long gap between each episode is actually hurting these shows, as the wild speculation and theorycrafting just takes up too much space and makes too much noise.


Which is weird because, atleast in me limited experiance, Its only been the D+ shows that suffer from the wild speculation. and the MCU ones too boot.
I didnt see it for other weekly shows at bad as these.

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Cabin Zombie






I love the wild speculation myself. Much prefer it to having to jettison from any place that mentions a show to avoid the people who can’t help but drop spoilers from that new series they binged an hour after it was released because I haven’t had time to sit down and watch an entire series in a single night.

 
   
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Newcastle, OZ

The rampant speculation of those people is down to their respective fan bases.

The SW ones do it because they've ALWAYS been like that. With the years between the original trilogy and the prequels, and then the sequels.

They just continued that when Mando went live.

Marvel comics fans on line tend to have the same sort of people in their groups.

I can just ignore it as so much fanw&nk wishlisting and move on.

I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Well, that was a pretty dense episode.

Will need to give a second watch I think. Maybe a full binge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, there’s a mid credits sequence as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/16 08:08:05


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Character growth! Training montages! And a post credits scene! Also I totally know what’s in the box, not that it’s any surprise.

 
   
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Is it Pepper Potts’ head?

Again.

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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

That might be my fav episode of the show to date. Bucky didn't get bodied by Walker leaving Sam to take down a super-soldier. They had to work together. The stuff with the town was fantastic. The stuff with Isiah was fantastic. He sure has the perpetual victim mentality, which Sam refuses to accept, but I totally get why he'd be stuck in that endless spiral of bitterness given that the government was so desperate to find out why the serum worked on him that they basically made him a non-person for 30 years. But as Tony said, resentment is corrosive, and Sam is not the type of person to sit back and let the actions of the past determine his future.

I liked Zemo's arc in this, and where it ended. I was surprised where he ended up, but hey, that's just giving him time to come back, right? Maybe not in this, but certainly elsewhere. Maybe we'll get an end credits scene where he assembles a group of his own.

This is the first episode where I've felt that Walker loosing it was earned. Before this was too Hayward-ish - he went from hero to nutcase far too quickly, one minute being nervous about filling Cap's shoes to the next pulling out the metaphorical gun to fire at imaginary children. Here you could see him struggling. Here you could see the self doubt and self delusion clouding and muddling him into a man of erratic action. Even in that final, final scene, it wasn't the actions of a man resolved. They were the actions of a desperate man, literally melding symbols of his former glory into a facsimile of something he thinks should be his. Marvel didn't have the balls to make Walker a good guy, but at lease they've finally clarified what makes him a workable bad guy.

And, ok, Flagsmashers are just straight up terrorists. You spent 4 and a bit episodes sitting on the fence with that one Marvel. Thank you for finally picking a side.

On another note, the music in this episode was top-notch, and not even just the Rocky Training Montage™. It's been good all season, but it was especially noticeable here. As for the training montage, this was Sam's episode through and through. I love how they have him fall back on his days as a veteran counsellor. He's really good at it. Not that Bucky had a bad episode - he was great, especially flirting with Sam's sister (he was a ladies' man back in the 40's after all!).

Overall, yeah, stellar effort. Everything came together really well in this episode, but we didn't get every question answered. We still don't know who the Power Broker is (I mean, it's Sharon, right? It has to be! Either her or Mephisto!), we don't know what Walker is actually going to do (try and be a hero?), and we don't know what Sam's suit is going to look at (though smart money's on his Captain America Falcon suit from the comics).

Spoiler:
And then there's the Julia Louis Dreyfus about it. That's a get for Marvel if ever there was one. I take it that'll play more in Secret Wars, but you never know...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/16 09:04:19


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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Yeah. I suspect that part of Walker’s issue is that people expect him to literally become Captain America, rather than being the new one.

So as well as needing to be a good soldier, he has to fill Steve Roger’s shoes.

Steve never had that hurdle to cross. He was only ever himself, as amply demonstrated in The First Avenger. And that, rather than ability as a soldier, is why he was selected in the first place.

And I think that’s why we’re seeing Sam accepting the Shield. He’s his own man. He’s not trying to be Steve, or replace him. And they seem to be angling for “I need to be a symbol of a better, less divided America”. Isaiah’s opinion is well founded, based on his own experiences. But Sam? Sam seemingly hasn’t had such a rough ride. And he recognises the importance of becoming that symbol, to show things have and can move on.

As HSBC said, Isaiah has a certain victim complex - and even though it’s well earned, it shouldn’t hold Sam back.

I do wonder if we’ll see a Black Widow style expose of Isaiah’s treatment.

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So has it been explicitly said somewhere that Steve died? They keep talking about him in the past tense but afaik he was alive at the end of Endgame. Did he live Just long enough to pass off the shield back in the present and then croak once the cameras stopped rolling?

 
   
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[DCM]
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Leicester

I agree with pretty much everything HBMC said. One interesting thing to me is that Marvel / Disney are really figuring out how to use the TV format to their advantage; there is no way you could take that much time out in a theatrical film to just slow down, chill out and get to spend some time with the characters and it was great. I love the dynamic between Sam and Bucky and it really got time to breathe here.

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 Zed wrote:
*All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
 
   
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USA

There's an interesting dynamic in the episode that I think tries to bridge a broad range of black experience in America. It's subtle, but done with a bit more tact than say, Black Panther (which at first came on hard then just dropped the whole thing sort of). You've got Isiah on one side, Hogan's parents on the other, and Sam in the center between them.

The scene with Zemo was a surprise but sort of endearing in a way. This is how one builds a deep and multi-faceted character and it was a great scene for Bucky too for much the same reason.

   
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Fixture of Dakka







I think Dreyfuss literally the first time I guessed something right about F&WS/Wandavision.

And I definitely love the arc they've gone for Sam too, (though I did inwardly facepalm at the 'Uncle Sam' line, because of course.)

I'm not even American, but Sam's arc kind of gives me flashbacks of Jeff Daniels speech in The Newsroom and if they go the whole hog with that... It can really be something.
I wonder if there's some sort of thematic thing there again of playing around with the idea that Steve was the nostalgia/fantasy, Walker is the reality and Sam's the aspiration.

I'm curious to see where it goes for the finale.

But... I'm still a bit worried that there's too many spinning plates, even with likely many things being laid down just as references for the future.
   
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I really dislike how Bucky went from leading villain threat level to mediocre dude that routinely gets his ass whipped by everyone else. He's supposedly a super soldier with an adamantium arm and has decades of training/experience but he's a complete pushover.

Also, the backstory for John Walker was hot garbage.

Officers in Special Forces are not boots on the ground. This is not an infantry situation where the LT/CPT is actually in the gak with his unit. Actual operators that see combat are pretty much all E-4 to E-8.

He jumped on a grenade not once, but four times. With his special helmet. Frack off.

The whole part of how he tested off the scale in all physical attributes by scientists at what? MIT? is fan fiction quality writing. Bad fan fiction.

Oh, and he can't bother shaving ever apparently. Has he been clean shaven once?

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