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Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'






 kodos wrote:
just that they took more time to put random pieces of rules/idead found elsewhere together does not mean they took the time to make it a decent product instead of just releasing what they had as soon as possible
It's entirely possible to spend a lot of time and effort on something and still have a terrible result if you are incompetent enough.

   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 Perfect Organism wrote:
 kodos wrote:
just that they took more time to put random pieces of rules/idead found elsewhere together does not mean they took the time to make it a decent product instead of just releasing what they had as soon as possible
It's entirely possible to spend a lot of time and effort on something and still have a terrible result if you are incompetent enough.

And it is definitely far easier to feth up designing a completely new thing from scratch rather than building on a thing that has already been tested and proven to work somewhat decently.

   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

GW has produced some excellent games, like Titanicus.
I think where they're not constrained by ancient and ill-fitting rules they can do some excellent stuff.
I hated the last edition of Killteam, and the primary reason I think comes from them trying to stick to 40k whilst also adopting newer and better game mechanics, ultimately just resulting in the worst of both worlds.

I remain hesitantly hopeful that it will be a fun game in it's own right.
   
Made in de
Powerful Ushbati






 Nevelon wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Maybe GW is just more confident that the stats of these two particular weapons are balanced




Everything else is either under/over powered, but these guys are great!

I hope that the mechanics for “balanced” are the same. While I’m not a fan of millions of different universal special rules, I like the ones they have to be consistent. It bugs me when you need to remember the corner cases, on what should be a straight forward thing.


I think it's more likely for two differently named rules to do the same like maybe lethal and rending both critting on 5s and being differently named because one's for melee and the other is for shooting, than an identically named weapon rule doing different things depending on whether it's a melee or ranged weapon. The latter seems to crop up in GW games more as a result of leaving legacy rules unfixed, rather than something that is put into a new rule set by design.

But I guess it doesn't hurt to join you and say at least I hope so.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of! 
   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker






 lord_blackfang wrote:
 The Red Hobbit wrote:
it's weird that high movement Eldar don't get..a better movement speed.


But they could have. In two different ways. And that's why the new measuring system is so great.

That's what was so surprising to me. If you can have 2x2 for standard humans and 3x2 for fast infantry then who would be the poster child for that? My first thought was the faction that has had the highest infantry movement rate in every edition of the game, but I guess that's asking for too much. I was also hoping that high Init factions would have an APL of 3, but nope on that too. Hope they don't feth over Tyranids too.

Oh well, I like most of what I've seen in new KT but the Eldar design decision seemed out of touch to me.
   
Made in us
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm





What about one extra APL for movement for Eldar factions?

Setek: "My people shackled the stars, and broke mortality when the species you sprang from had barely left the slime pools it spawned in. Our wars burned reality, and the dominion of our kings is without limit. The ground you tread on is not yours; it is ours. "

Ahriman: "The Necrontyr; the sleeping ones"

Setek: "That name is not ours. Why give a name to totality?" 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

Extra APL seems to be a way to let elite armies participate with a more similar number of actions to the more numerous armies, not necessarily to represent fast reflexes.


I honestly don't think GW put any consideration into it beyond that.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Expect some news on Kill Team soon(tm). They had posted up a thing on Twitter that showcased a bunch of the cards for the various factions.

I didn't save any, unfortunately, and the tweets themselves are deleted but can read off some of the stats from the thumbnails I sent someone.
Rubric Marine(Warrior)
3 Circle, 2APL, 1GA, 3 DEF, 3+Sv, 12W.

All is Dust: Lotta words, summary is that the Operative gets to be a 2+ save versus shooting attacks with a normal damage of 3 or less.
Favoured by Change: 5+ Invulnerable Save

Inferno Boltgun: 4A, 3+WS/BS 3/4DMG AP1
Fists: 3A, 3+WS/BS 3/4DMG
Chaos, Arcana Astartes, <Great Cult>, Rubric Marine, Warrior keywords.
Shieldy bit(I want to say it's Stalwart?) and Marksman specializations


Genestealer Cultist Neophyte(Gunner)
3O, 2APL, 1GA, 3 DEF, 5+Sv, 7W

Flamer
Grenade Launcher
Webber(has Stun!)
Gun Butt

The expected keywords
Scout and Marksman specializations

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/26 13:33:34


 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord




Lake County, Illinois

It seems kinda poorly designed when maybe 90% of the models are going to have 4 of the stats be identical.

This also kinda confirms that Sv is supposed to represent your armor, not how good you are at avoiding being shot, and wounds represent toughness. So the close combat rules ignoring the Sv makes no sense.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

Yeah, really not a fan of that "abstraction".
I still hold out hope that it'll all work out and be a fun game, even if a little counter intuitive at times.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Reivers and Chaos Space Marines both had APL 3

Meltaguns have range Hexagon and MW4 as a special rule.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/26 13:45:21


 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

I went back and watched a video on the reveal stream, and you can see more statlines for the Veteran Guardsmen.

Pistols are all range 6/hex
Laspistol; 4A, BS3, D2/3.
Bolt gun/pistol: 4A, BS3, D3/4.
Plasma Pistol (low): 4A, BS4, D5/6, AP1
Plasma Pistol (high): 4A, BS4, D5/6, AP2, Hot

Chainsword: A4, WS3, D3/4, Balanced.
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Collabirator



Dayton, OH

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/26/bring-an-ork-scrap-town-to-life-with-the-terrain-in-kill-team-octarius/

Primarily fluff and an excuse to flog shots of the scenery. Cover, Obscuring, Traversable, and Vantage are terrain keywords (that can apply to specific portions of the terrain), and there's such a thing as "Scramble Over" and "Charge Over" actions, but no real rules crunch is given for anything but the Traversable "pay (circle) movement to move over this" that we already saw. C-, only read if you like pictures of pretty terrain.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

Is that really what GW considers "dense"?
Dense for 40k maybe but not a skirmish game.
   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker






The wording on the vantage point has me curious if it provides a mechanical benefit or if it's just the usual "you have better Line of Sight but so does the enemy".

Since it's a specific terrain type I'm guessing there will be something tied to it. Maybe something event related like like a piece of terrain suddenly collapses this round.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Looks like they just decided to go ahead and post all the images.

Reiver(Warrior)
Spoiler:


Rubric Marine(Warrior)
Spoiler:


Chaos Space Marine(Gunner)
Spoiler:


Kommando Grot
Spoiler:


Neophyte Hybrid(Gunner)
Spoiler:

   
Made in nl
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





Segmentum Solar

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I went back and watched a video on the reveal stream, and you can see more statlines for the Veteran Guardsmen.

Pistols are all range 6/hex
Laspistol; 4A, BS3, D2/3.
Bolt gun/pistol: 4A, BS3, D3/4.
Plasma Pistol (low): 4A, BS4, D5/6, AP1
Plasma Pistol (high): 4A, BS4, D5/6, AP2, Hot

Chainsword: A4, WS3, D3/4, Balanced.

So there's a clear distinction between the Bolt Pistol and the Plasma Pistol, at least - the Bolt Pistol is more accurate but the Plasma Pistol causes more damage. Shame that the Laspistol seems pointless when compared to the Bolt Pistol.
   
Made in de
Fully-charged Electropriest






Ork collectors, and hobbyists looking to expand their selection of terrain pieces, will want to get their hands on Kill Team: Octarius as much for the terrain as the incredible models. Combine them with the Mekboy Workshop, and you’re well on your way to a full-blown Ork scrap town


Hum... all the barricades and scrap piles in the box are in fact from the Mekboy Workshop.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
It seems kinda poorly designed when maybe 90% of the models are going to have 4 of the stats be identical.

This also kinda confirms that Sv is supposed to represent your armor, not how good you are at avoiding being shot, and wounds represent toughness. So the close combat rules ignoring the Sv makes no sense.

It's looking more and more like CC ignoring Sv is because of the decent volume of attacks that even Gunners can make in CC would be a bit much.

Ex:
Fists on the Marines that had the profile today? 4 attacks. Even the Neophyte had 3 CC attacks at 4+ from their gun butt. The Grot Kommando had the least impressive statline being 3A with a WS of 5+ and Dmg of 1/4.
   
Made in nl
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





Segmentum Solar

 Kanluwen wrote:
Looks like they just decided to go ahead and post all the images.

Reiver(Warrior)
Spoiler:


Rubric Marine(Warrior)
Spoiler:


Chaos Space Marine(Gunner)
Spoiler:


Kommando Grot
Spoiler:


Neophyte Hybrid(Gunner)
Spoiler:


Bit surprised/disappointed the Reiver doesn't include any rules for the optional Grav-chutes and/or Grapnel Launcher they can take, nor anything for the Shock grenades or sonic waves that are specifically called out in the fluff bit.

Also, why do none of these datasheets acknowledge that these models clearly have sidearms modelled? I would assume you could have armed your marine with a combat knife instead of "fists" if all Veteran Guardsmen get a Bayonet... Looking at this I get the feeling the compendium rules are just there to allow everyone to play with their existing Kill Teams but they're saving the "proper" rules for specific new Kill Team kits to be released down the line.
   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker






 Insane Ivan wrote:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
I went back and watched a video on the reveal stream, and you can see more statlines for the Veteran Guardsmen.

Pistols are all range 6/hex
Laspistol; 4A, BS3, D2/3.
Bolt gun/pistol: 4A, BS3, D3/4.
Plasma Pistol (low): 4A, BS4, D5/6, AP1
Plasma Pistol (high): 4A, BS4, D5/6, AP2, Hot

Chainsword: A4, WS3, D3/4, Balanced.

So there's a clear distinction between the Bolt Pistol and the Plasma Pistol, at least - the Bolt Pistol is more accurate but the Plasma Pistol causes more damage. Shame that the Laspistol seems pointless when compared to the Bolt Pistol.

That's very interesting, I didn't expect them to do different BS for different weapons on the Veteran. For the CSM their plasma weapon has their normal BS.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

 Dryaktylus wrote:
Ork collectors, and hobbyists looking to expand their selection of terrain pieces, will want to get their hands on Kill Team: Octarius as much for the terrain as the incredible models. Combine them with the Mekboy Workshop, and you’re well on your way to a full-blown Ork scrap town


Hum... all the barricades and scrap piles in the box are in fact from the Mekboy Workshop.

The big bits are different aren't they?
The scatter terrain is taken from the Mekboy Workshop, but the buildings and oil pumps are new with Killteam, and the crane bench is unique to the Workshop.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

The Chaos Marine has the same amount of wounds as the 1KSons and Reiver.

Yay for same-wounds Chaos Marines.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm





Haven't gotten their second wound, but have gotten their twelfth

Setek: "My people shackled the stars, and broke mortality when the species you sprang from had barely left the slime pools it spawned in. Our wars burned reality, and the dominion of our kings is without limit. The ground you tread on is not yours; it is ours. "

Ahriman: "The Necrontyr; the sleeping ones"

Setek: "That name is not ours. Why give a name to totality?" 
   
Made in de
Fully-charged Electropriest






 kirotheavenger wrote:
 Dryaktylus wrote:
Ork collectors, and hobbyists looking to expand their selection of terrain pieces, will want to get their hands on Kill Team: Octarius as much for the terrain as the incredible models. Combine them with the Mekboy Workshop, and you’re well on your way to a full-blown Ork scrap town


Hum... all the barricades and scrap piles in the box are in fact from the Mekboy Workshop.

The big bits are different aren't they?
The scatter terrain is taken from the Mekboy Workshop, but the buildings and oil pumps are new with Killteam, and the crane bench is unique to the Workshop.


Sure, but having the same unique looking stuff three times... But well, I like the terrain, though I need to desorkify it for my plans.


The gretchin looks like fun. Tower on the other side of the board? Shoot and woooosh.
   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker






Well it's nice that Loyalists and CSM finally get the same number of wounds. I'm surprised Rubrics have the same though, I figured since there's no Toughness they'd have a higher Wound count then plus the All is Dust rule.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

All is Dust will make them pretty resilient to any sort of small arms fire though.
   
Made in de
Fully-charged Electropriest






 The Red Hobbit wrote:
Well it's nice that Loyalists and CSM finally get the same number of wounds. I'm surprised Rubrics have the same though, I figured since there's no Toughness they'd have a higher Wound count then plus the All is Dust rule.


As that would have made them more resilent in close combat, I guess this wasn't the intention of the designers how to use them.
   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker






Ah that makes sense, I hadn't considered the close combat angle.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




This I think is great, seeing the marines not having to much difference gives a bit of design space.
Would like them to do knifes and stuff, even if it isn’t on a model, I am sure players could understand that a soldier having one isn’t that odd,

But positive all the same.

Terain layout is bland and boring, I hope they at least acknowledge some better terrain. So we don’t need to put in rules for why a ork cannot jump over the high building.
Looks good tho for what we getting, not much use for me.
   
 
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