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1500-pts 7E - How Stupidly Good Are Eldar in Maelstrom? Eldar vs Grey Knights (Completed)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

1500-pts Eldar vs Grey Knights

Let me tell you the secret to 7th Edition. There are 2 things that you really need to be successful in 7th.

1. Objective Secured troops. The more the better. You either protect them in a transport of some sort, or you take lots of them. Otherwise, they will die. Best case scenario is you take lots of them....and you protect them in transports.

2. Mobile Scoring. Static armies are a thing of the past. To compete with the newer armies, you need mobility and you need lots of it. There's no point in having a lot of scoring if they will never reach the farther objectives. Also, they need to be able to get away from enemy assault units, at least to a certain degree. That's why you need some mobility with your scoring units. Not every scoring unit needs to be highly mobile, but a substantial part of your army does. The best armies, IMO, are the ones where almost every unit is mobile. And the best of the best armies are where all the Objective Secured troops are highly mobile.

So I set forth to building an army with the 2 above principles in mind. For testing purposes, I decided to break out my Eldar. However, I didn't want to go with the ridiculous Mechdar, especially at my LGS which isn't really super-competitive. So I decided to tone down my army....a lot. But I was hoping to test out my hypothesis. If your army can satisfy the 2 requirements above, then it will be competitive even if the army actually isn't.

My opponent today is Rene. This is the 1st time I have ever played against him and looking at his army, I could tell that he was more of a casual player than a competitive one. But whether he is competitive or not, the point I wanted to show was that if your army can satisfy my 2 basic principles, you can win almost any game no matter what your opponent brings. Moreover, if you can satisfy my 2 basic principles, then you army will be ridiculously good in the Maelstrom scenarios (as long as you play to the Tactical Objectives).


-----------------------------------------------------------------


1500 Eldar (My list)

Autarch - Jetbike, Fusion Gun, Laser Lance, Mantle of the Laughing God

5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent - TL-Scatters, Holo-fields
5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent - TL-Scatters, Holo-fields
3x Windrider Jetbikes - 1x Shuricannon
3x Windrider Jetbikes - 1x Shuricannon

5x Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent - TL-Scatters, Holo-fields
5x Striking Scorpions - Exarch w/Scorpion's Claw

5x Swooping Hawks
9x Warp Spiders

3x War Walkers - 2x Bright Lances (Proxied using AM Sentinels)



1500 Grey Knights

Sorry, but I don't have my opponent's list.


Coteaz - Hammerhand, Purge Soul, Banishment

Warlord Trait - +1 To Seize the Initiative, Re-roll Reserves

4x Paladins - Brotherhood Banner, Stuff
5x Purifiers - Stuff

5x Strikers - Stuff
5x Terminators - Stuff

Stormraven - TL-Lascannon, Multi-melta, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt Ammo

Nemesis Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter
5x Purgation - 4x Psycannons


-----------------------------------------------------------------


Missions: Maelstrom of War 6 - Deadlock

Basically, each player starts off with 6 Tactical Objectives on Turn 1. Then each turn, you lose 1 Tactical Objective (T.O.) until there is only 1 T.O. remaining on Turns 6 & 7.

Secondary: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each


Deployment: Vanguard Strike


1st Turn: Eldar


-----------------------------------------------------------------


Pre-Game Analysis:

PLAY THE OBJECTIVES!!! In Maelstrom missions, you don't even need to kill the enemy. All you need to do is to play to the objectives. Sacrifice units if necessary. That's what I am going to do. There is almost no chance for me to lose this. It is like the Rabbit and the Tortoise. My army has got the mobility to easily win this....as long as I don't fall asleep in the game, metaphorically speaking. Anyways, Eldar and their high mobility is just ridiculous in Maelstrom missions. Only Necrons can really match up with them in terms of sheer speed. Otherwise, the space elves have no peer when it comes to mobility.


-----------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:

Spoiler:
Maelstrom Tip #1 - There is no reason not to go first in Maelstrom missions, as you don't need to grab or contest objectives at the end of the game. In a Maelstrom mission, you grab objective points at the end of your turn. Therefore, get the alpha-strike on the opponent and grab those Maelstrom points early!


Eldar deployment.

Maelstrom Tip #2 - Normally in Eternal War missions, you would want to reserve your troops in order to keep them alive. In Maelstrom missions, however, many times it is better to just start your troops off on the table so that they can start grabbing objectives early and also to prevent your opponent from grabbing your objectives. Just make sure you protect them from giving away First Blood.


Eldar Warlord is hiding behind the ruins.

In reserves are the war walkers and scorpions (both outflanking) and the warp spiders and swooping hawks (both deepstriking).


GK deployment. Dreadknight and stormraven (with paladins) stay in reserves.

Maelstrom Tip #3 - Always deploy and stay near objectives. The goal in Maelstrom isn't necessarily to kill your opponent, but to grab objective points. Here, my opponent could have improved on his deployment by positioning his units closer to the objectives. He could have started off easily within range of 3 objectives but instead, he is only within range of 2.

Maelstrom Tip #4 - Always deploy at least as many units on the table as there are objectives within easy reach. For example, if there are 3 objectives in your deployment zone and another 1 in No-Man's-Land that is within easy reach, then you should deploy at least 4 units on the table. You want to be able to grab those objectives by the end of your turn if you happen to get the Tactical Objectives cards that will reward you for having objectives.


Overview of our deployment.

My opponent attempts to steal the Initiative with a +1 bonus due to his Warlord trait. Unfortunately for him, he fails.




-----------------------------------------------------------------


Eldar 1

Spoiler:
BTW, we are playing with a houserule - if you draw a Tactical Objective that is impossible to accomplish (i.e. such as killing an enemy flyer when your opponent has no flyers), then you can immediately discard it and draw another card.

My Tactical Objectives for this turn:

Secure Objective 1
Secure Objective 5
Secure Objective 6
Hold the Line - 3 of your own scoring units and none of your opponent's are within 12" of your table edge
Ascendency - D3 VP's if you control any 3 objectives
Overwhelming Firepower - kill 1 enemy unit in the Shooting phase


I move all 3 serpents back to claim Hold the Line.

VP's - Eldar: 1, GK's: 0

BTW, serpents are also on one of the objectives.


My Warlord and 1 unit of jetbikes turbo-boost to claim objectives 5 & 6.

VP's - Eldar: 3, GK's: 0

I also get Ascendency for claiming 3 objectives. Fortunately for my opponent, I only roll 1VP.

VP's - Eldar: 4, GK's: 0


Last but not least, I turbo-boost 1 unit of jetbikes deep into enemy territory to claim Objective #1.

VP's - Eldar: 5, GK's: 0

Maelstrom Tip #5 - Had my opponent deployed 1 of his troops onto his objectives (Objective #1), he would have denied me this objective point. That is why if your units aren't doing anything, then always have them on an objective.

I discard the Overwhelming Firepower Tactical Objective at the end of my turn. I haven't killed anything yet and already I've got 5 VP's. That's what having mobility in Maelstrom gets for you.




Grey Knights 1

Spoiler:
My opponent draws the following cards this turn:

Secure Objective 1 (11)
Secure Objective 1 (21)
Ascendency - D3 VP's if you control any 3 objectives
No Prisoners - Destroy 1 enemy unit
Hungry for Glory - Issue 1 challenge
Assassinate - Kill 1 enemy character

Wow! My opponent lucked out! He got some excellent cards! He just needs to kill my unit of jetbike guardians on his Objective #1 and he will get 4 VP's (Secure Objective 1 x2, No Prisoners, First Blood)!


Strikers go to deal with my jetbikes.


Terminators go to grab a 2nd objective.


Coteaz with Purgation and the Purifiers advance.


Grey knight strikers and terminators shoot down 1 jetbike.


Purgation squad actually takes off 1W from my Warlord.

BTW, we are playing the BAO rule where a re-rollable 2+ save becomes 2+/4+.


Finally, the knights assault. They successfully cast Hammerhand in the Psychic phase. My jetbikes then mow down 1 striker with Overwatch.


Just by finishing off my bikers, my opponent gets 4 VP's (Secure Objective 1 x2, No Prisoners and First Blood)!

VP's - Eldar: 5, GK's: 4

At the end of his turn, my opponent discards the Hungry for Glory Tactical Objective.




Eldar 2

Spoiler:
Time to screw my opponent over! He can forget about his Ascendency. Not going to happen.

As for me, this turn I get:

Secure Objective 1
Secure Objective 2
Secure Objective 3
Hungry for Glory - Issue 1 challenge
Witch Hunter - Kill 1 enemy psyker/brotherhood of psykers


My scorpions and war walkers (proxied using AM Sentinels) both come in on the side of Objective #1.


Warp spider land on target and go after the terminators.


Swooping hawks land on Objective #2 without scatter. I claim Secure Objective #2.

VP's - Eldar: 6, GK's: 4


The rest of my army moves. Serpents move 12". Autarch gets out of the way of the purifiers.

Serpents are actually on top of Secure Objective #3.

VP's - Eldar: 7, GK's: 4


It takes only 2 serpents to finish off the unit of 5 purifiers. I achieve the Witch Hunter objective (kill an enemy psyker).

VP's - Eldar: 8, GK's: 4

The 3rd serpent (with the fire dragons) then move flat-out 18" towards the terminators.


Spiders take out 3 terminators with their shooting.


Scorpions and war walkers combine to take out 3 strikers. They survive by going-to-ground. However, his troop is now out of contesting range of Objective #1, thus giving my scorpions Secure Objective #1.

VP's - Eldar: 9, GK's: 4




Grey Knights 2

Spoiler:
This turn, my opponent gets:

Ascendency - D3 VP's if you control any 3 objectives (from last turn)
Assassinate - Kill 1 enemy character (from last turn)
Secure Objective 2
Secure Objective 3
Big Game Hunter - Kill an enemy Monstrous Creature or vehicle


He goes after my war walkers, which are both a huge threat to his dreadknight as well as 1VP for Big Game Hunter.


Terminators go after my warp spiders and the objective for Ascendency.


Finally, Coteaz and the purgation unit go after the swooping hawks and a 3rd objective (for Ascendency).


Paladins shoot down 3 warp spiders....


....who then break and fall back (still in play). At least they've got 1 objective for Ascendency.


Dreadknight and stormraven fails to finish off the war walkers! 1 still remains thanks to a couple of passed Invulnerable saves.

As my units are not contesting, the dreadknight gets a 2nd objective for Ascendency.


Here my opponent makes a huge mistake. He got greedy. His plan was to assault my swooping hawks. I then tell him that he doesn't need to do that. All he needs to do is to run and he will get the 3rd objective for Ascendency (they are only 1" away). He opts to attempt assault anyways. But first, he shoots at them....

....and wipes them out! No assault, and my opponent doesn't get the 3rd objective for Ascendency!!!

He also fails to get Secure Objective #2 that my swooping hawks were on.

You see, I knew my hawks were good for something.

My opponent drops the Secure Objective #3 Tactical Objective. There is no way his guys are going to make it to my Objective #3 with 2 Objective Secured wave serpents on it.

Overall, this turn, my opponent fail to get a single VP.




Eldar 3

Spoiler:
My objectives for this turn:

Hungry for Glory - Issue 1 challenge (from last turn)
Secure Objective 3
Secure Objective 6
Overwhelming Firepower - Kill 1 enemy unit


Coteaz and his purgation squad is going down.


Jetbikes turbo-boost onto Secure Objective #3.

VP's - Eldar: 10, GK's: 4


1 serpent moves flat-out onto Secure Objective #6.

VP's - Eldar: 11, GK's: 4

BTW, just FYI, but this wave serpent was painted by the guys at Frontline Gaming.


Scorpions and war walker will deal with the dreadknight and lone striker.


Fire dragons disembark and prepare to deal with Coteaz's unit.


I wipe out the unit with my shooting (2 wave serpents and the fire dragons) and get the Overwhelming Firepower objective. I also get Slay the Warlord as well.

VP's - Eldar: 13, GK's: 4


War walker deal 1W to the dreadknight. I decide to leave his lone striker alone.


Spiders regroup, snap-fire and kill another 1 terminator.


Scorpions then charge the dreadknight. My Exarch issues a challenge to give me Hungry for Glory.

VP's - Eldar: 14, GK's: 4

I deal 2W to the dreadknight and he kills 2 scorpions in return, including the Exarch.

Well, that was a perfect turn as I achieve all 4 of my Tactical Objectives (as well as kill his Warlord).




Grey Knights 3

Spoiler:
For this turn, my opponent has:

Ascendency - D3 VP's if you control any 3 objectives (from last turn)
Assassinate - Kill 1 enemy character (from last turn)
Secure Objective 2 (from last turn)
Big Game Hunter - Kill an enemy Monstrous Creature or vehicle (from last turn)

This is his last big push before I probably wipe his army off the table. Let's see how many points he can get (with a little coaching from me).


Stormraven goes into Hover mode. It will be going after Objective #2.


The lone terminator grabs an objective.


Stormraven then moves flat-out to grab Secure Objective #2.

VP's - Eldar: 14, GK's: 5

He also achieves Asendency with raven, terminator and dreadknight all on objectives. My opponent gets 2VP's.

VP's - Eldar: 14, GK's: 7


The knights (striker with S5 stormbolter and paladin with psycannon) fail to shoot down my last war walker, so the striker charges into combat. Of course this is after my opponent casts Hammerhand. Unfortunately for him, he fails to kill it.


Finally, the dreadknight finishes off the striking scorpions.

Overall, not a bad turn for my opponent as he manages to get 3VP's this turn....not bad considering he's only got 3 units left on the table (plus the paladins in the raven).




Eldar 4

Spoiler:
This turn, I go in for the kill. My objectives:

Secure Objective 2
Secure Objective 3

And lastly, this:

Domination - Control every objective on the table and get D3+3VP's!

Now that objective there will be a gamebreaker, especially if you've got the mobility.


My Warlord moves flat-out towards the dreadknight just because I was feeling charitable. Oh, BTW, that is 1 objective.


I grab another 2 objectives here. 3 down. 3 more to go.

I also get Secure Objective #3.

VP's - Eldar: 15, GK's: 7


Jetbikes go flat-out to grab a 4th objective.


Fire dragons and wave serpent grab the 5th objective and also Secure Objective #2.

VP's - Eldar: 16, GK's: 7


Finally, the warp spider jump towards the 6th and last objective and shoot down the contesting terminator.

Domination achieved. I roll to see how many VP's I get and end up getting 6VP's!!!

VP's - Eldar: 22, GK's: 7


Fire dragons shoot down the stormraven.


Finally, the striker manages to take off 1HP from my walker in combat.




Grey Knights 4

Spoiler:
The game is already over. We are just going to finish up this turn to see how many VP's the knights can salvage.

His cards for the turn:

Secure Objective 4
Assassinate - Kill 1 enemy character (from last turn)
Big Game Hunter - Kill an enemy Monstrous Creature or vehicle (from last turn)

He can potentially achieve all 3 objectives this turn, plus kill my Warlord, to bring this battle back to respectability.


Dreadknight goes after my Warlord. This will be the pivotal matchup as kill my Autarch will net him both Assassinate and Slay the Warlord.


Paladins go after objective #4 and my warp spiders.


They shoot down 2 and then make it into combat.


They then wipe out the spiders and nab Secure Objective #4.

VP's - Eldar: 22, GK's: 8


Striker casts Hammerhand and finally finish off my walker. This also gives him Big Game Hunter.

VP's - Eldar: 22, GK's: 9

Finally, his dreadknight charges in. This is for all the marbles.....


NOOOOOOO!!!! So my Warlord attacks first. I am S3 fighting against T6 with 2+. Moreover, my Warlord only hits once. The dreadknight should live, right? Well, I only hit once but I roll a to wound. My opponent then proceeds to roll a for his armour save!!!

We then end the game with me getting another 1VP for Linebreaker.

VP's - Eldar: 23, GK's: 9




Crushing Victory to the Space Elves - Eldar!!!





Eldar 5

Spoiler:
Sorry, but the game ended last turn.




Grey Knights 5

Spoiler:
Sorry, but the game ended last turn.




-----------------------------------------------------------------


Post-Game Analysis:

Coming later.....



This message was edited 14 times. Last update was at 2014/06/15 07:01:03



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Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Your opponents army hasn't been good since 5E and it wasn't that good then. Although I with your points but beating up on this guy doesn't prove them. I'm a GK player and there are some very good options in 7E for us and he isn't using any of them other than Coteaz.
The other army that is as mobile is DE. I know because I play against them all the time.
I have been looking for some batreps with good GK forces since 7E has landed but I haven't seen any.
   
Made in us
Graham McNeil





Jim you are wrong. Eldar are bad in 7th edition. Black Blow Fly said so on BOLS. Having super durable, speedy transports with objective secured and the best MC in the game coupled with terrific shooting and excellent pyschic powers isn't going to win you any games. You should put up a poll for this one so I can vote that you will lose.

   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus





Yea, this one doesn't even look fair from just the army lists.

I feel bad for the GK player, even if he has a pretty bad list

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/13 16:52:17


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4000 
   
Made in gb
Speedy Swiftclaw Biker




March

You toned down list but to be fair its still a pretty nasty. With the exception of the fire dragons and taking 9 spiders and only 5 hawks. Everyone knows that hawks are like beer. They come in sixes...

Veritas Vos Liberabit 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Heakyeah wrote:
Your opponents army hasn't been good since 5E and it wasn't that good then. Although I with your points but beating up on this guy doesn't prove them. I'm a GK player and there are some very good options in 7E for us and he isn't using any of them other than Coteaz.
The other army that is as mobile is DE. I know because I play against them all the time.
I have been looking for some batreps with good GK forces since 7E has landed but I haven't seen any.

Agreed. Just from looking at his list, I knew he would be in for a rough day.


However, my posting of this report isn't to show that I can club baby seals. Rather, I am posting this batrep for 2 main reasons:

1. To show how to play the Maelstrom missions.

2. To show why Eldar are so crazy good in these types of missions.


BTW, you're in luck. I have a GK battle report against 3 Imperial Knights and it's going to be a good one. Actually, Frontline Gaming has that battle report. GK's are still good in this edition.


slaede wrote:
Jim you are wrong. Eldar are bad in 7th edition. Black Blow Fly said so on BOLS. Having super durable, speedy transports with objective secured and the best MC in the game coupled with terrific shooting and excellent pyschic powers isn't going to win you any games. You should put up a poll for this one so I can vote that you will lose.

Lol.

The reason why I didn't put up a poll for this is for 2 main reasons:

1. I am afraid it will crash the site with the millions and millions of my fans voting.

2. I am afraid that it will disprove my theory that Eldar are ridiculous in Maelstrom missions if no one votes for them to win.




 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Yea, this one doesn't even look fair from just the army lists.

I feel bad for the GK player, even if he has a pretty bad list

Well, look on the bright side. You only get better by playing against better players.

He's going to learn a thing or 2 from our game.


 jay170788 wrote:
You toned down list but to be fair its still a pretty nasty. With the exception of the fire dragons and taking 9 spiders and only 5 hawks. Everyone knows that hawks are like beer. They come in sixes...

That's because Eldar are just so damn good. Even a toned down version of the competitive build, mechdar, will still be difficult for many armies to handle.




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Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus





Hes gonna learn Eldar are absurdly good, but I think everyone knows that already lol

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Water-Caste Negotiator




United States

Having already played a few maelstrom missions, and deadlock, this should be interesting to watch. But, as like other posts here, I feel bad for the GK player and am not sure you will get the full deadlock effect as this game may end early.

   
Made in nl
Confessor Of Sins






Having fast troops (yay for jetbikes) makes them very good at the stupidly random tactical objectives 'game'..

And you could still lose if you draw badly.

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





The GK list is great! Your small eldar force won't stand a chance. The Paladins alone will give you trouble. Once they cripple the vehicles with their psychic powers, they're only outnumbered 10 to 1. They can beat those odds half asleep against daemons, what are some Eldar going to do?

Sadly that's not the case on the table, only in the fluff. :(
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






orks have the mobility too, and honestly I'm looking forward to facing eldar in a maelstrom mission. if it's not secret objectives, I'll know where a waveserpent will be trying to go, and if I position my trukks right, I'll get a charge off on them every time. soon as the waveserpent gets wrecked, the eldar lose a lot of their competitivity. honestly, it only takes one. as soon as they're down to 2-3 they realise they can only kill 2-3 things per turn. and against a mass-small-fast-assault-unit army, you can't get away without killing the opponent.

then again I might be biased. seems now anything I hear of "this is overpowered and you can't beat it" I see a way orks can beat it. jetseer council? Bikernobs. everything else? Trukks.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Nevermind wrote:
Having already played a few maelstrom missions, and deadlock, this should be interesting to watch. But, as like other posts here, I feel bad for the GK player and am not sure you will get the full deadlock effect as this game may end early.

The game doesn't necessarily have to go the full distance if you can grab a lot of objective points early on. As a matter of fact, these types of games can quickly become a blowout if you happen to get the right Tactical Objective cards and your opponent doesn't. That is one of the downsides of playing Maelstrom. Otherwise, it's actually pretty fun and a refreshing way of playing 40K.


 Shandara wrote:
Having fast troops (yay for jetbikes) makes them very good at the stupidly random tactical objectives 'game'..

And you could still lose if you draw badly.

Yup. No matter how good your army is, you can still lose if you draw some bad/difficult objective cards and your opponent draws some good ones. However, I will say that having mobility in your army will help to offset this potential imbalance. Bottom line is, highly mobile armies will have a huge advantage in Maelstrom missions.


 invisiblade wrote:
The GK list is great! Your small eldar force won't stand a chance. The Paladins alone will give you trouble. Once they cripple the vehicles with their psychic powers, they're only outnumbered 10 to 1. They can beat those odds half asleep against daemons, what are some Eldar going to do?

Sadly that's not the case on the table, only in the fluff. :(

Well, I will say that my opponent does have one thing going for him....he will dominate me in the Psychic phase.


 some bloke wrote:
orks have the mobility too, and honestly I'm looking forward to facing eldar in a maelstrom mission. if it's not secret objectives, I'll know where a waveserpent will be trying to go, and if I position my trukks right, I'll get a charge off on them every time. soon as the waveserpent gets wrecked, the eldar lose a lot of their competitivity. honestly, it only takes one. as soon as they're down to 2-3 they realise they can only kill 2-3 things per turn. and against a mass-small-fast-assault-unit army, you can't get away without killing the opponent.

then again I might be biased. seems now anything I hear of "this is overpowered and you can't beat it" I see a way orks can beat it. jetseer council? Bikernobs. everything else? Trukks.

Can't wait for the new orks to come out!




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Bay Area

Why couldnt the guy issue a challenge when he fought the jetbikes? could have got one more of the objectives, yes no?

or did I misread the cards he got.

   
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Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Theorius wrote:
Why couldnt the guy issue a challenge when he fought the jetbikes? could have got one more of the objectives, yes no?

or did I misread the cards he got.

Challenges can only be issued to a character. There is no character in there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/14 20:02:42



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Made in gb
Swift Swooping Hawk






Focusing solely on T1 (since thats all thats uploaded atm)

If you had to replay this, would you again boost those bikes into the enemy zone to get that 1 VP? Knowing there was a very high chance they would then give up a VP for first blood? The cards he drew were pretty convienient but regardless, you were trading 1 VP for (at least) 1 VP and loosing a unit in the process.

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Longtime Dakkanaut






 jy2 wrote:
Theorius wrote:
Why couldnt the guy issue a challenge when he fought the jetbikes? could have got one more of the objectives, yes no?

or did I misread the cards he got.

Challenges can only be issued to a character. There is no character in there.



wrong, actually. A challenge is issued by a character. then if there is a character to accept, he can.

you can challenge anything you're engaged in combat with. so obliterators, wraithknights, dreadnaughts... long as you have someone to issue the challenge, it's up to the opponent whether there's someone to accept it.

12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!

I'm Selling Chaos Dwarves, Infinity, 40k, dystopian wars, UK based! 
   
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San Jose, CA



Will work on batrep later tonight.


 some bloke wrote:
 jy2 wrote:
Theorius wrote:
Why couldnt the guy issue a challenge when he fought the jetbikes? could have got one more of the objectives, yes no?

or did I misread the cards he got.

Challenges can only be issued to a character. There is no character in there.



wrong, actually. A challenge is issued by a character. then if there is a character to accept, he can.

you can challenge anything you're engaged in combat with. so obliterators, wraithknights, dreadnaughts... long as you have someone to issue the challenge, it's up to the opponent whether there's someone to accept it.

Rulebook p. 101 (3rd paragraph under Issuing a Challenge)

If there are no characters in the enemy units, then a challenge cannot be issued.


 dayve110 wrote:
Focusing solely on T1 (since thats all thats uploaded atm)

If you had to replay this, would you again boost those bikes into the enemy zone to get that 1 VP? Knowing there was a very high chance they would then give up a VP for first blood? The cards he drew were pretty convienient but regardless, you were trading 1 VP for (at least) 1 VP and loosing a unit in the process.

Yes, I would. I tend to play aggressively and almost always go for the VP's unless doing so would lose me the game. It's a trade-off but one that I would have gladly made.

However, if I had felt that I was the underdog in this game, then I would have played more conservatively. But I wasn't, so I didn't.





Automatically Appended Next Post:


Battle report completed.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/15 07:06:35



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Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
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Auckland, New Zealand

Does Big Game Hunter specify he must kill a whole squadron? Should he have got that objective for destroying a War Walker even though there was a survivor?
   
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Fayetteville NC

Fairly lopsided matchup plus turn 1 GK deployment issues pretty much told the story. In this particular mission, I believe you want to risk as much as possible to garner as many points early as you end up with less cards each turn potentially becoming harder to score points later in the game.

Not only are jetbikes fantastic for this type of mission, but MSU is also VERY good in Maelstrom Missions. Imagine someone dropping 6 Drop Pods with 60 Tactical Marines into this size game; very hard to contend with.


Whoah....I have played 40K for over 30 years.  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
Does Big Game Hunter specify he must kill a whole squadron? Should he have got that objective for destroying a War Walker even though there was a survivor?

I suppose by pure RAW, you only have to take out 1 vehicle, though I don't believe that is the RAI. For as long as the game has been running, you normally get VP's/KP's only if you finish off a unit, not if you finish off a model in the unit (i.e. you won't get a VP for killing 1 marine in a unit of 5). Thus, we played it as RAI in this case.


 Sarigar wrote:
Fairly lopsided matchup plus turn 1 GK deployment issues pretty much told the story. In this particular mission, I believe you want to risk as much as possible to garner as many points early as you end up with less cards each turn potentially becoming harder to score points later in the game.

Not only are jetbikes fantastic for this type of mission, but MSU is also VERY good in Maelstrom Missions. Imagine someone dropping 6 Drop Pods with 60 Tactical Marines into this size game; very hard to contend with.


Agreed. Fast armies and mobile MSU armies both have the tools to do well in Maelstrom missions (actually, they'd do well in Eternal War missions as well).

The lopsided matchup appeared way before deployment. It actually occured in the list-building phase. My opponent's list just isn't a very balanced list. Then again, that is pretty common with newer players or players who are more into the hobby side. List balance is secondary to how cool the models are.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/16 08:00:58



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
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 jy2 wrote:

Rulebook p. 101 (3rd paragraph under Issuing a Challenge)

If there are no characters in the enemy units, then a challenge cannot be issued.




Thankyou for pointing this out, I'd missed it an we have been playing it wrong!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
fire dragons aren't troops are they? so if the waveserpent that was by an objective by the stormraven who was also there was bought for them and not objective secured, it couldn't control the objective. same with the HQ jetbike by the dreadknight. you have to have one of your models and none of the enemy models within 3", and objective secured trumps scoring. so you'd have have 6 points less, but still a big victory for the eldar.

so the super fast super durable objective secured dedicated transport gunships of the Eldar are probably the best units in the game right now...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/15 16:00:22


12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!

I'm Selling Chaos Dwarves, Infinity, 40k, dystopian wars, UK based! 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






St. Albans

Mostly footslogging GK list vs. highly mobile Eldar army all in skimmers or on bikes, with missions that reward mobility and a win for the Eldar? No way! Thanks for the report JY2, really well done as always, but didn't learn a lot about maelstrom from this matchup.

 
   
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How does the Autarch capture the objective from the DK. Did he have OS ?
   
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Honestly it seems like the only reason the GK player got any VPs was he got good rolls on the TOs.

Without list-tailoring though, it seems highly possible for a decent player to never lose Maelstrom missions as Eldar. (Against any other army, that is).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/15 23:47:55


Ask Not, Fear Not - (Gallery), ,

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Yeah! Who needs balanced rules when everyone can take giant stompy robots! Balanced rules are just for TFG WAAC players, and everyone hates them.

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Vior'la Sept

I think that this is a good example of how the Maelstrom missions can get out of whack. Its more luck of the draw and then applying yourself, not all about the strategy, I mean we already have the mediocrity of die rolls for goodness sake! It would be interesting to see how some MSU GKs matched up, especially with milling the warp charges.
   
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I don't know about everyone else but man the 7th ed battle reports are WAY more tactical than 6th ed. Great report JY2 I think the grey knight list was no where near 7th ready, very slow moving. You however have adapted very quickly!

"...and wipes them out! No assault, and my opponent doesn't get the 3rd objective for Ascendency!!!

He also fails to get Secure Objective #2 that my swooping hawks were on"

This mistake was a massive one and IMO started the slide down! It wouldn't of won him the game but made the score line allot more respectable (adding 2-4 more VP's)
   
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bodazoka wrote:

This mistake was a massive one and IMO started the slide down! It wouldn't of won him the game but made the score line allot more respectable (adding 2-4 more VP's)


23-13 is a laughable improvement over 23-9.

Ask Not, Fear Not - (Gallery), ,

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Yeah! Who needs balanced rules when everyone can take giant stompy robots! Balanced rules are just for TFG WAAC players, and everyone hates them.

- This message brought to you by the Dakka Casual Gaming Mafia: 'Cause winning is for losers!
 
   
Made in us
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San Jose, CA

After looking over the rules, it appears that we made a mistake. I was under the impression that since non-troop units cannot contest (i.e. they are not Objective Secured units), then if both of them are on an objective, then they both can claim the objective. I forgot about the 3" rule. Thus, a few of the Tactical Objectives wouldn't have counted, including:


1. GK Turn 3 - Raven grabbing Secure Objective #2. It was contested by my fire dragons and wave serpent.

2. GK Turn 3 - Grey Knights achieving Ascendency. He didn't get Objective #2.

3. Eldar Turn 4 - Fire dragons would not have gotten Secure Objective #2 as it was contested by the paladins.

4. Eldar Turn 4 - I would not have gotten Domination due to 2 objectives being contested.


However, it would have still been a crushing Eldar victory.


 some bloke wrote:

fire dragons aren't troops are they? so if the waveserpent that was by an objective by the stormraven who was also there was bought for them and not objective secured, it couldn't control the objective. same with the HQ jetbike by the dreadknight. you have to have one of your models and none of the enemy models within 3", and objective secured trumps scoring. so you'd have have 6 points less, but still a big victory for the eldar.

so the super fast super durable objective secured dedicated transport gunships of the Eldar are probably the best units in the game right now...

You are correct. We made a mistake.


 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Mostly footslogging GK list vs. highly mobile Eldar army all in skimmers or on bikes, with missions that reward mobility and a win for the Eldar? No way! Thanks for the report JY2, really well done as always, but didn't learn a lot about maelstrom from this matchup.

No worries. The best way to learn is just to play it. This report will give you a glimpse of how good Eldar can be in Maelstrom missions if nothing else.


Fragile wrote:
How does the Autarch capture the objective from the DK. Did he have OS ?

You are correct. We made a mistake.

Though I could have just shot at the DK with the fusion gun, maybe kill him with just 1W left and then do my assault move onto the objective. Then again, that would have been a "what if" scenario.


 Xca|iber wrote:
Honestly it seems like the only reason the GK player got any VPs was he got good rolls on the TOs.

Without list-tailoring though, it seems highly possible for a decent player to never lose Maelstrom missions as Eldar. (Against any other army, that is).

No, Eldar isn't invincible. They can still lose. However, they will have a huge advantage over most armies with their mobility.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Commander_Farsight wrote:
I think that this is a good example of how the Maelstrom missions can get out of whack. Its more luck of the draw and then applying yourself, not all about the strategy, I mean we already have the mediocrity of die rolls for goodness sake! It would be interesting to see how some MSU GKs matched up, especially with milling the warp charges.

Yeah, Maelstrom is more luck-based than Eternal War missions. But don't think it doesn't require strategy, because it does. However, unlike Eternal War missions, strategy is much harder to plan for due to the randomness of Tactical Objectives. In EW missions, you have a clear objective that you can strategize the long-game for. In Maelstrom, you only have 1, maybe 2 turns to form a strategy that can change at any moment. That is why your army needs to be much more flexible than in EW missions. Well, mobility is what gives you this flexibility to change strategies at a moment's notice.

A good GK army, built with some mobility in mind (i.e. MSU-mech, shunting/deepstriking units and stormravens), can still do well in Maelstrom missions.


bodazoka wrote:
I don't know about everyone else but man the 7th ed battle reports are WAY more tactical than 6th ed. Great report JY2 I think the grey knight list was no where near 7th ready, very slow moving. You however have adapted very quickly!

"...and wipes them out! No assault, and my opponent doesn't get the 3rd objective for Ascendency!!!

He also fails to get Secure Objective #2 that my swooping hawks were on"

This mistake was a massive one and IMO started the slide down! It wouldn't of won him the game but made the score line allot more respectable (adding 2-4 more VP's)

Yeah, 7E missions, in particular the Maelstrom missions, are way more tactical because they add a dimension to the game that didn't exist back in 6th. That is both refreshing and fun. It could also be frustrating as heck in tournament play with its randomness. The GK list was definitely more old school than new school. That is because not everyone sees the changes in the meta as quickly as some of the more experienced players, especially when the rules are still so new to most (including me!).


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/16 08:20:56



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
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 Xca|iber wrote:
bodazoka wrote:

This mistake was a massive one and IMO started the slide down! It wouldn't of won him the game but made the score line allot more respectable (adding 2-4 more VP's)


23-13 is a laughable improvement over 23-9.


I dunno man, id rather loose by 10 than 14!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/16 08:36:20


 
   
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That was a painful report to read

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