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Isn't the max on Rogue Psykers two?

Where its specified? In table is only 30 per 1

Do rogue psykers not suffer from the +1 to cast per smite rule?

 JNAProductions wrote:
Isn't the max on Rogue Psykers two?

First off the list is illegal since you only can have 2 Rogue psykers, secondly they can't fill slots since hammerman is there. (slaves rule).
So technically he still has all elites free.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Isn't the max on Rogue Psykers two?

First off the list is illegal since you only can have 2 Rogue psykers, secondly they can't fill slots since hammerman is there. (slaves rule).
So technically he still has all elites free.

Where is this stated thats i can only take two? I listed them as elites to easier recognition

Nizrah wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Isn't the max on Rogue Psykers two?

First off the list is illegal since you only can have 2 Rogue psykers, secondly they can't fill slots since hammerman is there. (slaves rule).
So technically he still has all elites free.

Where is this stated thats i can only take two? I listed them as elites to easier recognition

Here directly from the news and rumor thread https://spikeybits.com/2018/11/breaking-new-blackstone-fortress-chaos-40k-rules.html
Read the datacards

Edit: First off in the upper part it clearly states an army can not field more then TWO and further down is the " slaves to malleus " rule which makes them non-slotfilling period.

And the questionable restrictions are not just for Rogue psykers but also for all other units including traitor guards etc.

Ah okay, i see it now

Nizrah wrote:
Ah okay, i see it now

No worries, my rather short and crude answer is dependant on my device aka my phone, so don't take it negatively.

Two traitor guardsmen are armed with a lasgun and frag grenades. One traitor guardsman is armed with a lasgun, frag grenades and krak grenades

Better make sure you pick your casualties carefully if there’s a dread heading their way then

You don't get anything being Black Legion as long as you don't take Abigail. It's the sad truth.

So, in gw's continuing effort to remove anything remotely competitive from the chaos space marine codex, cultists are 5ppm now.

Nature's Minister wrote:
So, in gw's continuing effort to remove anything remotely competitive from the chaos space marine codex, cultists are 5ppm now.

Eh, at this point its just rumors. But on the flip side those same rumors point to a pretty significant point reduction for Marine models. 5 point guardsmen and 5 point cultists alongside a general buff to MEQ bodies may lead to Imperial and Chaos armies actually taking some space marine bodies. Maybe.... probably not.

 akaean wrote:

Nature's Minister wrote:
So, in gw's continuing effort to remove anything remotely competitive from the chaos space marine codex, cultists are 5ppm now.

Eh, at this point its just rumors. But on the flip side those same rumors point to a pretty significant point reduction for Marine models. 5 point guardsmen and 5 point cultists alongside a general buff to MEQ bodies may lead to Imperial and Chaos armies actually taking some space marine bodies. Maybe.... probably not.

Mate, r&h still exist and I doubt they will pricehike them, granted they are bad enough to be 4ppm (ld is d6+2 f.e
Worse armor and bs /ws) but we still mostlikely will have a cheap battalion.

 akaean wrote:

Nature's Minister wrote:
So, in gw's continuing effort to remove anything remotely competitive from the chaos space marine codex, cultists are 5ppm now.

Eh, at this point its just rumors. But on the flip side those same rumors point to a pretty significant point reduction for Marine models. 5 point guardsmen and 5 point cultists alongside a general buff to MEQ bodies may lead to Imperial and Chaos armies actually taking some space marine bodies. Maybe.... probably not.

There is no rumor of marine price changes, just wild guesses and wishlisting at this point.
And honestly, I hope not. horde marines should NOT be a thing.

 akaean wrote:

Nature's Minister wrote:
So, in gw's continuing effort to remove anything remotely competitive from the chaos space marine codex, cultists are 5ppm now.

Eh, at this point its just rumors. But on the flip side those same rumors point to a pretty significant point reduction for Marine models. 5 point guardsmen and 5 point cultists alongside a general buff to MEQ bodies may lead to Imperial and Chaos armies actually taking some space marine bodies. Maybe.... probably not.

They're not a model worth 5 points though. Even with the amount of Strategems (I still maintain that Tide Of Traitors isn't broken and was unnecessarily hit).

The worth of everything is in comparison
If other minor infantry also gets bumped up, then by comparison cultists would be fine.

 BoomWolf wrote:
The worth of everything is in comparison
If other minor infantry also gets bumped up, then by comparison cultists would be fine.

Infantry are more durable though, so that warrants the price increase.

If cultists go to 5 ppm then Infantry deserve to be 6 ppm, they're better in almost every way.

Primortus wrote:
If cultists go to 5 ppm then Infantry deserve to be 6 ppm, they're better in almost every way.

Not entirely. They can't be taken in 40-strong units, don't have access to Veterans of the Long War or Tide of Traitors, don't have the same character aura support (like Abaddon making them fearless and possibly full rerolls to hit) and don't have as good of psychic support. They do however have things like orders, which can't be ignored. To me, Cultists and Guardsmen are pretty close in terms of power, when you consider things other than just their statline and their own special rules.

I'm fine with a points increase, as long as other chaff infantry go up as well. We already saw Ork Boyz go up, so it's possible that Kabalites and Fire Warriors will also get an increase if Cultists and Guardsmen do. Maybe even Tyranid gaunts will catch that nerf bat as well.

Other books have other competitive units, tho. Csm has cultists, obliterators... kind of? and daemon princes, but the worst daemon princes of any book. Berserkers aren't that good post alpha legion nerf.

So, what now?

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Primortus wrote:
If cultists go to 5 ppm then Infantry deserve to be 6 ppm, they're better in almost every way.

Not entirely. They can't be taken in 40-strong units, don't have access to Veterans of the Long War or Tide of Traitors, don't have the same character aura support (like Abaddon making them fearless and possibly full rerolls to hit) and don't have as good of psychic support. They do however have things like orders, which can't be ignored. To me, Cultists and Guardsmen are pretty close in terms of power, when you consider things other than just their statline and their own special rules.

I'm fine with a points increase, as long as other chaff infantry go up as well. We already saw Ork Boyz go up, so it's possible that Kabalites and Fire Warriors will also get an increase if Cultists and Guardsmen do. Maybe even Tyranid gaunts will catch that nerf bat as well.

Because I'm going to use VotLW on Cultists? Please. Also Tide of Traitors was never broken.

5 points is laughable for Cultists. They aren't a 5 point model. If you're pricing them like they have their Strategems active all the time, they're not priced correctly.

Also the whole "you have the option to take them at higher squad sizes" is exactly the stupid logic GW used to price Conscripts at 4 points.

Pricing Cultists on the assumption there’s forty of them getting recycled and buffed by strats & powers would seriously dunk the viability of the two squads of ten sitting on objectives and avoiding eye contact

Not being BL, five CSMs with a lascannon don’t particularly grab me as an alternative

What’s the expected landing date of FAQ3?

With the Chapter Approved rumors, I'm satisfied Abaddon is being kept at the same points cost. He's good enough as is.

Because I'm going to use VotLW on Cultists?

Have you run any numbers on VotLW/Cacophony/RR-aura/Prescience Cultists?

Feel free to go ahead and do so.

In the absence of changing the min/max squad sizes, they are absolutely still worth using at 5pts per, and likely still better than most of the other available troops choices for CSM.

Yeah, i have just gotten into using abaddon and 40 slaanesh cultists with a sorcerer.

80 shots when in double tap, 5+++ for cultists, rerolling failed hits, vets of long war, normally does on average 10 wounds on a 3+ armor target (thats 10 wounds not saved, they do 25-30 wounds). Then fire again, goodbuy whatever you dont like.

Only problem is people realise how strong cultists are when they have access to cp so target them quickly. I normally only get about 45-55 shots with a squad due to losses and range, but still. They are stupid effective thanks to the current game system.

 Ap0k wrote:

Because I'm going to use VotLW on Cultists?

Have you run any numbers on VotLW/Cacophony/RR-aura/Prescience Cultists?

Feel free to go ahead and do so.

In the absence of changing the min/max squad sizes, they are absolutely still worth using at 5pts per, and likely still better than most of the other available troops choices for CSM.

You mean Codex Cultists (and maybee) some Space Marines. Still an unnesscary nerf, just as 5 pts IG are when the real problem lies with the CP generation and the fact that SM don't do that in any meaningfull way.

80 shots when in double tap, 5+++ for cultists, rerolling failed hits, vets of long war, normally does on average 10 wounds on a 3+ armor target (thats 10 wounds not saved, they do 25-30 wounds). Then fire again, goodbuy whatever you dont like.

Think bigger :p

40 man squad, re-rolling 1's, with VotLW, Prescience, and Cacophony active:

You'll put about 15 wounds onto a Knight if you can get all 40 in Rapid Fire range.

You'll almost kill 2 ravagers (19.7 wounds after FNP), or almost kill 3 Raiders through FNP. You'd also pop 4 Venoms and then some, again through FNP.

You'd kill 15 Plaguebearers if they don't have -1 to hit from being above 20 models. 13 if they have -1 (due to unit size or miasma). 9.8 if they have -2 to hit.

If anyone was stupid enough to put Terms on the table, you kill 5.9 through their 2+ saves.

You'll kill 1.5 Daemon Princes if you can somehow line them up for shots, though that's admittedly quite difficult.

Admittedly, getting them into range at full strength is half the problem.

If you want to be cheeky, you could make them Alpha Legion for that 9" Forward Operatives move, +6" from normal move, +6" from Warptime. You could also just T1 Tide them if your opponent provided you the opportunity.

For 160 pts (plus support resources, if you want to factor that in).

So, even making that 160pt squad 200 points, it's one of the best point to wound ratios CSM have available, even if you assume any other unit you compare it to has the same buffs. Oblits are obviously better dedicated AV, and adding cover obviously drops the numbers down in most cases, but it's not like you have to sink all that support onto cultists. The fact that you can is enough to give a competant opponent pause.

You mean Codex Cultists (and maybee) some Space Marines. Still an unnesscary nerf, just as 5 pts IG are when the real problem lies with the CP generation and the fact that SM don't do that in any meaningfull way.

It's not unnecessary by any means. They can't feasibly change unit stats/rules in Chapter Approved because the page real-estate to do so would be extreme. That only leaves them tweaking points. Cultists are too good at 4 points. Period. The only thing they could do is make them cost more (at least, until they start revising codices, at which point they can revisit the statline and/or min/max unit sizes).

Anyone who didn't see a Cultist nerf on the cards wasn't paying close enough attention to their capabilities.

Again that does not solve the problem any Variation of space marine phase.

Maybe because it's a completely separate problem, relating to *how* CP is generated via detachments?

To be fair its not like we are dominating tournaments. If they bump cultists up to 5pts and drop marines by 1 or, hopefully, 2, i would not be upset. It would increase my current list by a few points but nothing drastic.

Marines and terminators need help. They need a price drop.

Bolters need help too. They used to ignore 5+ and 6+ saves that cultists and guards have. Even if they changed it to wound rolls of 6 were at ap-1 that could help them get back a bit of what they had. :( if anything thats the biggest tragedy of 8th edition, the fact that bolters are jokes compared to what everyone else gets.