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Made in si
Steady Stonecleaver









https://sites.google.com/site/potica40k/

This is an alternate 40k build that I've been playtesting on and off for the past few months. It's very grognard in the sense that it removes a lot of nonsense introduced in the last few editions (random charge range, casualties from the front, unbound, lords of war) while keeping the good (warlord traits, psychic disciplines) and bringing back mechanics that worked well (victory points, area terrain). It's also progressive in that it streamlines some clunky mechanics (psychic phase), adds a modern suppression system (I hear they are all the rage these days) and expands Overwatch into a whole array of reactions that should keep the non-active player from walking off to watch other games while it's not his turn.

Also included are some Codex quick-fixes. These are mostly intended to adjust abilities that are affected by the core rule changes, but some attempt at fixing the most glaring balance issues has also been made. Please bear in mind that the CSM and Tyranid documents are pre-7th edition and so are slightly out of date.

I recommend reading the sections in exactly the order they are listed in the left hand navigation pane.

What do you think, sirs?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/14 14:06:26


Posters on ignore list: 33

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I actually quite like this. Nice and simple.

Also I lolled at this:
For one model to have line of sight to another, you must be able to trace a straight, unblocked line from its eyes (or analogous sensory apparatus
Perigrine will be happy
   
Made in ua
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch





I already can predict whine about Initiative-based reactions giving Eldar another unneeded edge over other armies.

"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
Charles Darwin, first champion of Tzeench 
   
Made in si
Steady Stonecleaver







 Mezmerro wrote:
I already can predict whine about Initiative-based reactions giving Eldar another unneeded edge over other armies.


But Tau tears will be delicious

In all seriousness, unlike GW, I won't try to rebalance factions by hamfistedly tweaking core rules. I think the core rules should come first and then the codexes be designed around them.

Posters on ignore list: 33

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in ua
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch





 lord_blackfang wrote:
[
But Tau tears will be delicious

I4 drones in every unit.

Well, I like Initiative-based reacrions, especially since it now makes captains, nobs, bosses and some other models more of a force multiplyers. I really hope your re-worked necron lords, crypteks and overlodrs would have higher Initiative like the lords used to have in 3e.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/03 11:46:05


"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
Charles Darwin, first champion of Tzeench 
   
Made in si
Steady Stonecleaver







Don't forget there is also design space aplenty for reaction USRs. Factions or units could have bonuses to certain reactions but not others to further reinforce their theme or fighting style.

I already put in some for Tau, but I'm going slowly because I'd like to get a good feel for how the base rules work before adding too many exceptions.

Posters on ignore list: 33

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in ua
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch





I approve returning to the old leadership-based psychic phase, though I have some suggestions/critique:
1) Remove arvificial limitations about no more powers per turn than the psykers level - he alread knows that many powers.
2) Generating warp charges into army-wide pool has proven to be handy and easy to track. Only thing you need is removing extra D6 WCs
3) I don't get why you removed WC cost from force weapon, and moved it back into assalut phase. Warp-charge based force weapon brings in interesting resource management, and pre-activated FW that last for two assault phases has proven to be better than the previous mechanic too.

Also precision shots on focussed witchfires makes no sense - almost all psykers are already characters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/03 12:17:34


"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
Charles Darwin, first champion of Tzeench 
   
Made in si
Steady Stonecleaver







I'm not 100% set on the Psychic stuff, I admit I liked the way 6th edition did it well enough and WC do offer some interesting design space. I toyed with the idea of Thousand Sons just straight up stealing enemy WC.

I don't really like an army-wide WC pool though, it makes no sense for psionics and results in some psykers just being brought along as backfield WC batteries.

WC vs. making psy tests harder is like the old Warmachine vs Hordes, resource management vs risk management dilemma. They're both fine, but given that there's already plenty of tokens floating around now with suppression, I tried an approach that disposes of tokens for psychics, at least. It's not a big deal though and 6th style WC plugs in seamlessly so far if that's what you prefer. Might get a bit wonky once I adapt the various Deny The Witch augmenting wargear to the new system.

Posters on ignore list: 33

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in ua
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch





Army-wide WC-pool surely don't make any sense, but it speeds up the game, and removes unneeded complexity. For an army with a total mastery level of 10+ its a godsend. People that play Eldar, Daemons, GK and TS really like new WC-pools.

And now when all psychic gak is moved into its own phase, its no longer spawns more tokens, since all unused WCs are removed at the end of the phase, and even during the phase itself they could be easily tracked as a pile of dices on the table.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/03 12:49:06


"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
Charles Darwin, first champion of Tzeench 
   
Made in si
Steady Stonecleaver







Fair enough. If you used the WC pool, would you also keep the psychic test penalty for WC cost or go back to classic DTW? As I understand it, right now psychic heavy armies can't really cast all their powers in one turn as it takes a disproportional number of dice to power a WC 2 or WC 3 spell. Would going back to straight up WC with regular psy tests be OP?

Posters on ignore list: 33

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in ua
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch





 lord_blackfang wrote:
Fair enough. If you used the WC pool, would you also keep the psychic test penalty for WC cost or go back to classic DTW? As I understand it, right now psychic heavy armies can't really cast all their powers in one turn as it takes a disproportional number of dice to power a WC 2 or WC 3 spell. Would going back to straight up WC with regular psy tests be OP?

It would not be, mostly since all the powers were designed to work with ld-based psychic tests of the previous editions, only with more cumbersome rules of separate WC pools and psy tests being spread all over the game phases. It would buff psyker-heavy armies, but none of them were OP in 6E (well, Eldar were, but not because of their amount of psykers)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/03 13:09:19


"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
Charles Darwin, first champion of Tzeench 
   
Made in us
Drone without a Controller




Really like what I am seeing. Some things though...
Dakka brutes look insane with blast masters and a havok launcher. 150 points for three pieplates, 2 S8 AP 3, and one S4 AP5 Blind. One blast master is really nasty. Though I would probably have to play a game with one first to be sure of how silly it is.

Any chance of seeing doom sirens becoming a thing hell brutes can take? Like as a built into a power fist weapon.

Kinda worried that Noise marines will dominate with their mass application of pinning. Everyone is going to be suppressed all the time.

In general, I really Like the CSM codex, and most of the Tau codex.

Really like pushing for mixed legion armies in CSM. Are you planning on making a SM codex along similar lines, also bringing it into line with the new system?

Whats up with AP 1? All it used to do was boost penetrated hits. Now it is still expensive and does nothing.

Any thoughts on using this with VASSAL 40K. Seems like it would be a good fit.

Have you thought of just using an erratad version of the 1d4chan Tyranid codex.

Why don't the CSM get drop pods? I have never seen a reasonable fluff reason beyond this. They could use some way to bring in cc units to close range besides a land raider.

Soul Blaze seems to be a really nasty weapon on high volume weapons.

Is it intentional that there are no unique charicters in the CSM Codexe? I approve as long as it isn't too hard to make something like them...

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/08/01 20:55:17


 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Just started reading and I had to stop. Was this written by Kirby himself? I mean the way some things were stated.

Eg, Lords of War: GTFO. This just reakes of rudeness and not funny if it was suppose to be. Ok most people don't like the rule, but what about for people who may like the rule? Now you are insulting them. If anything you should say

Lords of War: Not in here, because in my opinion I believe they don't belong in a 40K setting that is not Apocalypse.

But to say how you did, it just wreaks of childness, like a kid wrote the rules (maybe they have, don't know the OP age) and unprofessional. Going to be that much harder now to take things seriously.

Yes I know this is the persons version who wrote it, but you have to remember while you may disagree with stuff, other people may like it, and don't need to be insulted just because they have a different opinion.

Back to reading the rules now, to see if this is the only instance or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Read most of it. Really good in most cases. I just have to laugh how some things are just gone. This speaks VOLUMES of sore loserness. I mean it just screams of childness bitterness of not accepting something or trying to make it work.

Now if there was no immatureness as I said before then it can be easily overlooked, but now all I can see when something is eliminated, I can see the OP screaming NFW, or GTFO and it sort of ruins what an excellent rule system it could have been.

All in all, very good well written excellent rules. I may just borrow some of them for my home brew rules for me and my son.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/01 21:57:11


Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in us
Drone without a Controller




More comments.

Terminator now cost even more... 42 points a pop(power weapon and combbolter), min squads of 5... 225 point squads before any customization is a pain. Offer option of 3 man base squads?

Do the techpriests mechadendrites give +1 to mechanic rolls?

Any reason the raptor champ and havoc champ can't take special issue wargear? Base line CSM champions can. Just seems a little odd. Reason I ask is a havoc squad with a servo armed champ seems legit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/02 01:12:22


 
   
Made in si
Steady Stonecleaver







Chaps, I'm on vacation and can only access Dakka for a ew minutes on a mobile device, not great for typing. I'll get back to all of you later!

Posters on ignore list: 33

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in us
Wondering Why the Emperor Left




Seattle

Never mind, I derp'd.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/02 23:34:22



 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






I haven't read all the way through the 7th ed. rule book yet. This looks cool, but I don't know if I'll get to it any time soon.

"I'm a poster boy for hobby ADHD/Indecisiveness!"

As a result of the aforementioned condition, I own numerous rule books/supplements/novels etc. but no models.

Codices I own:




 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Reread the rules again, and loving what I am seeing here. Just need to make a few tweaks for my sons and my vision of how to play the game.

Thanks once again for posting the rules.

Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in us
Wondering Why the Emperor Left




Seattle

Regarding your Ultimate Codex CSM-
A couple of problems in the way the rules are written-
The Champs of Chaos in the army list don't specify if they only affect the champ in a bunch of the units.
Warp Talons. Why they no get Daemon of X with the Mark of X?
It doesn't make sense to me.
But other than that everything is awesome.


 
   
Made in us
Drone without a Controller




Lord blackfang... you ever coming back? Going to try playing with these rules using VASSAL anf posting the games on youtube... gonna be fun.
   
Made in si
Steady Stonecleaver







Ah, yes, this old thing

It's a little bit strange to me how so many posters got hung up on the Chaos codex. Of course the remarks are legit and I made a lot of mistakes and unintentional omissions trying to get a book done and playable as fast as possible, and I will address this, but keep in mind that the core rules have changed a lot and there is little point in debating minute details of specific armies until we have a good understanding of how the game actually plays (I've only played something like half a dozen full games with the final version of the rules so far, and I honestly don't feel qualified to judge how much a Terminator is worth, for example).

I would greatly appreciate any feedback from actual games played on the table or on Vassal, especially feedback on the primary core rule changes: suppression, reactions and vehicles.

Posters on ignore list: 33

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in us
Drone without a Controller




It was more that currently, you can't really play terminators under 1000 point games. Personally favor 500 point, so issues.

But yeah, will try to figure out a way to record games and post to youtube soon. Gonna at least play a game by wensday.
   
Made in us
Drone without a Controller




So after some play... why the automatic suppression token to the assaulted unit? It just sort of makes charges even more terrifying, and often unwinable. Stack on top the token for overwatching, and units just wilt. I guess it helps assault...

Also ambush seems really iffy. You have to be talking MEQ or better initiative to get a big advantage, otherwise it is just dragging everyone to initiative 1.

Reactions seem interesting, but debilitating. If you react on your opponents turn, you are going to be iffy on yours.

The warlord traits also seem oddly balanced racially. Marked for Greatness the Tau trait seems really, really good. Obliterator virus alone is a 25+ point value, especially for a unit built to take it.
   
Made in si
Steady Stonecleaver







Hey, thanks for the comments.

About the automatic suppression, you mean from Assault Grenades?

Ambush is supposed to be situational because cover abuse was a big issue vs assaulty armies that don't spam free frag grenades everywhere - and by a strange coincidence these are also the same armies that actually rely on striking first to win combat (Nids, DE).

Making reactions is supposed to be a tough call. Nothing should be free. They also slow down the game, so you don't want to see a reaction to every enemy move all the time. You do it as a last resort to save a unit, or get one last shot off when it's about to get wiped anyway.

Warlord traits - yeah, I was getting more generous and more creative as I went along, so there's a power progression from oldest to newest. I'll have to go back at some point and even them out.

I am really glad you got some games in using the rules. Did you also use the Potica codexes or the originals?

Posters on ignore list: 33

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in us
Drone without a Controller




 lord_blackfang wrote:

About the automatic suppression, you mean from Assault Grenades?

Ambush is supposed to be situational because cover abuse was a big issue vs assaulty armies that don't spam free frag grenades everywhere - and by a strange coincidence these are also the same armies that actually rely on striking first to win combat (Nids, DE).

Making reactions is supposed to be a tough call. Nothing should be free. They also slow down the game, so you don't want to see a reaction to every enemy move all the time. You do it as a last resort to save a unit, or get one last shot off when it's about to get wiped anyway.


I think the rebalance of ambush is a bit far the other way. Your talking an initiative test to get it off, generally at -1 due to assault grenades... that if it works gets you another -1. After you have generally spent points to get the option to take the test.

I mean that is my real issue. Units have spent points/loss of options to have defensive grenades, which are now really situational. Perhapce give a reverse of the assault grenades. If you charge a unit carrying assault grenades, you get a suppression token automatically? Still an advantage to the assaulter because they can strip off the token at end of turn were the assaulted group gets it for both assault phases.


I am really glad you got some games in using the rules. Did you also use the Potica codexes or the originals?


Ultimate Tau V.S. Ultimate CSM. Still getting the hang of the rules. Did you intend that if it isn't mentioned in the rules one should assume it is from the 7th ed rulebook? Also, I was full of gak. Dakabrutes are nice, but can and will get killed by crazed. Though I do want to see how a double PF/Sonic blaster brute would do. Though the fix of salvo was stealthy. I like.


edit: also, it is not super clear if pinning forces a pinning test for each hit with a pinning weapon, or for each unit that hits with a pinning weapon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/29 04:00:14


 
   
Made in si
Steady Stonecleaver







I will try to reword pinning! It should be per unit, like now.

Yes, assume things work like 6th/7th edition if you can't find it in Potica. I'd like to make it self-contained eventually, but then again, it is intended as an alternative for people who know 40k well enough to think that it needs fixing, so maybe it's sensible to leave it more as an errata.

Back to Ambush, you are bothered by Defensive Grenades having a small/unreliable effect specifically, right? I've been wracking my brain with them for a long time. I did consider them inflicting a suppression token on the charger, but doing it before the charge move is probably too harsh (reducing the charge move to 4" usually) and doing it after the charge move has little effect (reducing Space Marines to I3 isn't going to help Tau much). They could simply cancel out Assault Grenades and that would be a decent boost against units that have them, but then there's no effect against most Xenos. I admit this is one of my bigger stumbling blocks.

Posters on ignore list: 33

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in us
Drone without a Controller




It is also hard to argue for their value overmuch because they tend not to "cost" much. A few points here and there. Yet they cost something... perhaps force a check or the charge becomes disordered? But that is a massive benefit that only comes up randomly. You could also make the charging unit take a pinning test, but those seem like they are fairly easy to pass...


Edit: played another game, trying out Ultimate CSM world eaters versus Ultimate Tau.
Lists:
Spoiler:

WE:
HQ
Chaos Lord (70 points) Bezerker of Khorn(35 points)
Power Fist&Lightning Claw 35 points
Talisman of burning blood 20 points
160 points

Troops
Chaos Marines(80 points)
3 more 42 points
Bezerkers of Khorn 32 points
One Bezerker gets an axe of Khorn 20 points
Champion gets an axe of Khorn 20 points
Champion gets talisman of burning blood 20 points
214

Chaos Cultists (50 points)
19 more (76 points)
126

500 points even.

Tau:
HQ
Fireblade 60 points
Pulse Excelleraor drone 20 point

Troops
Fire Warriors 54 points
+6 more 54 points
108 points

Crisis Suit 25 points
2 flamers 10 points
Drone controller, 2 shield drones 20 points

Fast Attack

Pathfinders 40 points

Pathfinders 40 points

Pathfinders 40 points

Heavy Support

Broadside 65 points
Drone Controller and 4 missile drones 60 points
bonding Knife 10 points
135 points

498 points.


Wow... Talismans of burning blood are terrifying. Also Chaos lords can open huge cans of wopass. Set up a fairly urban map, with more buildings near the top then the bottom. Lots of LOS blocking, tons of rocks.
Play by play
Spoiler:

Tau fireblade picks up intimidating presence(never did anything), and chaos lord gets Dawn attack(only round it might have mattered, the only unit that got shot got its cover save stripped by marker lights). Wow it is hard to get relevant warlord traits. Also, the zerker sargent picks up FNP from his free boon for having an 8 man squad. This also never gets used. Yay.
Tau won the roll off, and chose their deployment zone(the bottom half of the map). Objectives were placed, the tau putting the WEs objective pretty far back behind some cover on the left side of their deployment zone. No mans land objective on the left in an ally way between two buildings with a clear LOS to the Tau deployment zone. WE drop the Tau objective away from the open kill zone the tau had sort of been making. Their NML objective went closer to their deployment zone, and again on the edge of the kill zone.

Objectives: Tau get "No Middle Ground" and "Just as Planned", CSM get "Hold the Line" and "Break Even."

Deployment: CSM deployed first, and on the edge of their deployment zone. Though do to the heavy building cover, they are pretty much out of the Tau's line of sight. Cultists+lord are set to run out of the ally with their NML objective in it on the left, and the zerker squad is set to run down an ally in the middle right. Tau deploy further back, the Broadside and friends parking themselves in a nice rock formation giving good coverage of two of the three routes out of the CSM deployment zone. The Fireblade sits with his firewarriors in a corner covering the other exit from the CSM deployment zone. By in the corner I literally mean they deployed as tightly as possible to the rear left table edge. They have range and once the CSM close to melee it is all over. 1 pathfinder squad sets up to run an ally on the far left side of the board, figuring the fact they are being backed by the fireblades 12 full auto pulse rifles will keep them safe(they were right). The other two are sort of floating around the middle near the Broadside, getting ready to light their targets up.

Turn 1: CSM: advance carefully, the Lord+Cultists going down the middle left ally a bit trying to close range. The Zerkers hug cover as they advance, trying to block as much LOS as possible.
Tau:[i] The far left pathfinders advance a bit, while their brothers in the middle light up the zerkers with 2 tokens. Which are blown stripping them of their cover save by the Broadside. Lots of missiles kills 3 zerkers(including one with a axe of Khorn) messily. The fireblade has no clean lines of sight.

Turn 2:[i] CSM:
keep moving out. Lord and Pals keep moving down the ally, setting up to pounce on a stack of pathfinders next round. The zerkers blood stained rush forward and start inserting their axes in a squad of pathfinders. These pathfinders implode. the sargent gets +1BS.
On a model that literally can not shoot. Fun times.

Tau:[/i] First of 3 rounds were the crisis suit failed to roll better then a 2. The pathfinders on the far left keep on trucking up the side of the board. They want their objective and the cultists have bigger fish to fry. The fireblade still had no LOS to anything relevant. First the surviving squad of pathfinders in the middle open up with marklighters, then the broadside proceeds to do nothing with its +2BS. rolling double ones was sad. No zerkers die through sheer luck and 3+ saves.

Turn 3: CSM: Blood is now in the water. the Lord and Pals close and murder the other central pathfinder squad, lord gets shred all the time. The zerkers close to engage the Broadside, who fails to get an overwatch. Hilarity ensues, they take a wound of the Boradside and 2 drones. The broadside is stubborn so he isn't going anywhere.

Tau: Finally the Fireblade gets a clean shot at the Chaos Lords unit. 38 shots of S5 AP5 kill 11 cultists... and take a wound off the lord. Would have been 15 but the lord ate 4 shots. Fearless is sweet and the stack stays motivated. The far left pathfinders reach their objective, and start camping. worth their 40 points they were. The Broadsides stack dies horribly, the zerker Sargent gets nothing relevant.

Turn 4: CSM: so... the Lord had to do something rather insane. The cultist stack was stuck in difficult terrain. They could not reach the Fireblade's unit without running. So he seperated from the cultists stack, and rushed the firewarriors as they soiled themselves. The cultists started moving back towards their home objective. The Zerkers sort of moved towards their lord, ready to clean up if he died. The Chaos lord runs up, declares his charge. The Tau respond with an overwatch... which at 2 suppression counters utterly fails to scratch the Chaos Lord. Then he murderizes 3 of them with some rather nice rolls. Tau melee is about as effective as is always assumed and dosn't scratch him. The fireblade does resist the urge to run, so fun times next round.

Tau: Yep, the crisis suit still dosn't drop. really. The pathfinders keep camping. The fireblade refuses the lords challenge, and 3 more firewarriors fall to the lords lightning claw. This time the fireblade tries to book it, and is slaughtered by the Chaos Lords sweeping advance. given the 2 suppression counters on the tau, they moved an entire inch. Best bit, Since I was using Vassals Cntrl k command to clear casualties, when the lord whipped a 14 man squad by himself he was literally surrounded by a circle of blood. Khorn approved.

Turn 5: CSM: The cultists further earn their keep running up the board and taking two of the NML objectives and 40% of the primary objective. The zerkers and lord really can reach anything useful, so they just meet up and take some selfies in the enemy Deployment zone.

Tau:Finally the Crisis suit drops, right on to of the cultists, spraying 3 down with its flamers. Though due to the possition it dropped in, it can't contest any objectives.
[u]Game Ends. [u]

Results:
9 cultists+sargent, 4zerkers+sargent, the chaos lord, 4 pathfinders, 2 shield drones, and a crisis suit survived the bloodbath survived
Tau get 40% on their primary objective, 0% on their secondary objective, and 19.1% surviving points of models.
CSM get 40% on their primary objective, 20% on their secondary objective, and 70% surviving points of models.


TL;DR Melee CSM can kick some ass in CC, and talisman of burning blood makes Bezerkers so amazing. Fleet+bounding assault Cultists can actually run across the board reliably. Also, like most of the legion specific weapons, the axe of khorn is not really worth it. +1 attack per 6 attacks really isn't worth 5 points.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/10/31 05:30:26


 
   
Made in us
Drone without a Controller




So I got around to playing another game of Potica Last night into today.
Tried 1500 points... and remembered why I like 500 points. Kinda want to try making a slightly different 40k heart breaker balanced for 500 points.

Orks versus Tau.

Tau
Spoiler:

HQ
Crisis Suit commander
2 missile pods, Multi spectrum sensor suite, Puretide engram chip, 2 missile drones
185 points

Crisis Suit commander
2 missile pods, Multi spectrum sensor suite, Puretide engram chip, 2 missile drones
185 points

Troops

Crisis Suit
Upgrade to shas'o, Nuroweb system jammer
45 points

Crisis Suit
Upgrade to shas'o, Nuroweb system jammer
45 points

Elites
Riptide 180 points
Ion accelerator, Twinlinked Fusion blaster, Stimulent Injector, Vectored Retro Thrusters
230 points

Fast Attack
Pathfindersx10 100 points

Pathfindersx10 100 points

Sunshark Bomber
Automated repair system, Disruption Pods
195 points

Heavy Support
Broadside
Twinlinked highyield missile pods, Drone Controller and 4 missile drones, Bonding Knife
140 points

Broadside
Twinlinked highyield missile pods, Drone Controller and 4 missile drones, Bonding Knife
140 points

Hammerhead Gunship
Smart missile system, Two long barraled tank burst cannons
135 points

This list.... Has a bunch of gimmiks, some of which turned out to work. Potica MSSA is way more reasonable, just gives the units target -1 to their cover save and the unit with it can shoot. So the commanders Each sat in a squad with the broadside. 20 S7 AP4 shots a turn with markerlights was horifying. They generally killed a unit each time they fired.

The Troops... never hit the board. VASSAL loves rolling 2s for reserves. Same for the bomber.

The Hammerhead... was not a good point investment for this machup.

The riptide... was very scary but never really did anything. It spent most of the match scared of a Assault focused battle wagon(yes, Potica Orks are this cool).



Orks
Spoiler:

HQ
Warboss
'eavy armor, Power Klaw, Cy'bork body, Attack squig, Boss Pole, Iron Gob
135 points

Big Dok
'eavy armor, Cyborked body
3 grot orderlies
80 points

Pain Boy
3 grot orderlies
50 points

Pain Boy
3 grot orderlies
50 points

Troops
Boyzx11
E'vy armor, Boss Nob, Boss pole, Power Klaw
Trukk, Red Paint job
190 points

Boyzx11
E'vy armor, Boss Nob, Boss pole, Power Klaw
Trukk, Red Paint job
190 points

Boyzx18
'eavy armor, Boss Nob, Boss pole, Power Klaw
220 points

Fast attack

Warbikersx9
Boss Nob, Boss pole
177 points

Warbikersx9
Boss Nob, Boss pole
177 points

Fighta-Bomma
2 Boom Boom bombs, 6 smasha missiles, Rear fireing twinlinked suppa shoota
165 points

Heavy Support

Battle Waggon
Red paint job, Sikkbomb chukka, Extra Armor, Defrolla
145 points

1499

This list... is also gimicky as all hell. It is meant to deliver the orks to the enemy as quickly as possible, without losing all to many boyz. And it did that very effectively.

The warbikers in Potica give a 5+ cover save to any sized allied unit behind them. So they were to screen for the transport convoy. If they lived, yay, but I did not build the list assuming they would.

The Battle Wagon never actually ran anything over :(, but did manage to be a big enough threat to force my opponent into heavy cover(reason its tank shock was scary... in Potica, the rolla gives +2S to tank shock HoW hits, tank makes tank shocks have AP equal to the vehicles Sv(Sv is based on front armor, and is really nice to make vehicles less gak). So the tank shock would be a S9 AP3 hit. Fun times.

Also, RPJ dosn't suck in potica, it is +2" to movement for 10 points. Actually relevant! On top of the Trukks being fast(fast makes them move 12" normally, in potica vehicles move 6" and flat out 2d6")... 14"+2d6" Flat Out is kinda fast.

So, a pain boy went in each of the trukks, and the two real HQs went in the battle wagon. So, 12 man ork blobs with 4+ and FNP, and a nob with a power claw.


So, as the person I am playing with knows enough to play, but not enough of Potica specifically to list build, I made 3 lists in preparation for this game. I made a CSM IW gunline, a Tau gunline, and an Ork anti-gunline. But given the limited transport space of a Trukk and the limited number of pain boyz one CAD can bring, the ork models were pretty elite... and the perfect target for missile pods. So, basically the two lists we ended up playing are hard counters of each other. This was not intentional. *shrug*

To be clear, I was playing Orks.

Set Up
Spoiler:

I still use the system of rolling a d3 for each 1' square, because that seems to work well... Anywho, Light terain(1s except a 2 and a 3 in opposite corners). My opponent throws down some trenches, I try to keep terain light and out of the way. Ends up with a line of trenches across the middle of the table, with a 12" wide gap in the middle, and a bunch of random terrain in the two opposite corners. I take first turn, my opponent gets to chose deployment zone. We generate warlord traits, none of them matter. We generate missions(I get Advance an secure+Just as Planned, He gets Something I can't recall+move a unit off your opponents board edge), and start deploying.

I deploy toeing the line. One squad of bikes forms a U around the battle wagon, with the bottem of the U behind the wagon. I deploy the 2 trukks next to the wagon, and the other unit of bike on the other side of the wagon in a tight line. He deploys his Tau to each side, his riptide in the corner with the deepest cover, and the hammer head on the other side slightly closer to the center. He placed the missile squads closer to the sides then the pathfinders.


Turn 1
Spoiler:

My Orks all flat out forward. Actually manage with some weird rolls to set up the convoy. Battle wagon in the center about 14" closer to the enemy lines, flanked by Trukks, and all surrounded by bikes. I don't have any guns with range enough to care, and pass.

The Tau Shoot all of the bikes to death. 10 pathfinders into each bike squad followed by 20 missiles... which wound on 2s and ignore the bikes armor. I do manage to Jink both squads, but it dosn't matter. Though, my opponent sorta misplays. On one of the bike squads he burns the marklight tokens on his hammerhead and its 16 S5 AP5 shots. Even with basically auto hitting, they needed 4s to wound and I got my 4+ armor save. actually beat the odds and only lost a couple moddles... and then the missiles hit. Only the Nob survived with 1 wound... and he did not make his Ld check and ran for it. The riptide does actually take a shot at a trukk... though it is out of range for its fusion blaster. The Trukk only takes 1 HP... man ramshackle is good.


Turn 2
Spoiler:

So the bike screen was dead as disco, but the Orks show a stiff upped lip, and press on. Fitta bomba fails to show up. Reactions are intresting, and add some fun depth to actions. The Battle wagon waits for the other trukks to get out of its way, then tries to tank shock the hammerhead. The hammerhead manages to make its initative check, and hops onto the trench(skimmer). So given that the battle wagon has no viable charge targets, it opts to just skoot forward and disgorge 20 very pissed Orks. The Trukks both follow suit. Suddenly, I have orks in charge range of the gunline. at this point, on one side is the no warlord missile squad, near the center close to my opponents boardedge is a unit of pathfinders, father away on the other side is another unit of pathfinders right next to the warlord's missile squad. One trukk is right next to the warlord's missile squad, one trukk is right on top of the central pathfinders, and the battle wagons is sorta close to the non warlord missile squad, but closer to the hammer head which is nearer the center. More reactions to dismbarking, non warlord squad of missile everything tries to kill the orks with the aid of the pathfinders. Saddly the pathfinders don't help, and the suppression token for overwatching means the drones are BS1. 3 orks die? and another 1 dies to Mob Rule after their inital Ld test fails. Nothing else overwatches well.

Assault time(I would shoot, but that also provokes irritating overwatch. The warboss and his squad tear the hammerhead appart... really the boyz do with 4 S5 swings a pop. Just the penitrating hits killed it. The central Pathfinders die to a man. On the other side... awkward things happen. I don't want to multicharge, because the broadside with a bunch of aplative wounds from the pathfinders will make it a tarpit that never ends. Also I want that sweet, sweet +1 S and +1 A from an orderly charge. So that squad just charges the warlords squad. They don't overwatch because 2 supression tokens are enough. The Nob Chalanges the Warlord, he accepts. The rest of the boyz lay down 8 wounds... that the broadside eats. The drones+braodside manage to kill 2 boyz in some incredibly lucky rolls... then the nob decapitates the commander with his S10 klaw, and overflows into a drone. The combat is a loss for the Tau, but luckily for them the broadside has a knife of stubborn. making BKR a 10 point upgrade that grants stubborn... is so much better. Warboss and Co consolidate toward the non warlord missile squad, and so do the victors of the middle ground.

The Tau Bomber fails to show. The Riptide moves up toward my boardedge, and blows up the 2 HP remaining trukk.
The remaining pathfinders light up the middle ground victors(they have no more grots for rerolling FNP, and their is a trukk blocking LoS to the warbosses squad) and the remaining missile squad... kill it down to a nob and a painboy. These heros pass their LD check, characters OP? In that turns asssault, some drones die and the broadside finally takes a wound.


Turn 3
Spoiler:

So, remember the one remaining 40 point trukk? Yeah, it manages to tank shock the remaining squad of pathfinders... with a nearly perfect roll, cuts the squad neatly in half. Forcing a regroup test... which they fail. the Tank shock only killed 1 pathfinder, but makes them leg it off the board edge. It was adding insult to injury at this point. The battle wagon shifts around to present it's front facing to the riptide, and threaten it if it tried to run for my home objective. The Warboss calls a Waaaagg! and the amazing Nob+Painboy duo run forward to charge... and I do a cute sequencing thing. I first charge with the 2 man squad into the missile squad. They are forced to spend their overwatch wiping that squad, or not overwatch at all. They kill the 2 models, and then get swarmed by boyz. The warboss challenges the crisis commander, he accepts. The boyz lay down a truly impressive number of wounds, and he tries to be cute again laying them all on the broadside... except it dies to the number of wounds, and a drone dies. The warboss kills the gak out of the commander with his Klaw, and shreds a drone. The drones run for it, and get sweeping advanced. At this point he just concedes due to it being 2:30AM.


So yeah. Both he and I agree that we like 500 points more. There tends to be less MASSIVE NUMBERS, and a lot more tactical movement as the board isn't covered in models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/04 21:19:25


 
   
Made in si
Steady Stonecleaver







LordDavenport, I really appreciate these reports of yours.

It's interesting to see you coming up with some specific "power combos", this kind of thing is really difficult for the designer to spot himself.

Regarding game size, I usually play Potica at 1200. It's close in model count to the 1500-1750 pt games I am accustomed to from 4th edition.

Posters on ignore list: 33

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in us
Drone without a Controller




To be honest... I needed to just turn the hammerhead and a crisis suits into firewarriors. The list needed more massed fire in general...
Though I feel the Not! punisher hammerhead could really do some work... not against this list though.

CSC+missile side+tons of drones works well with marklight support... but really, the issue is it only can kill 1 full unit per turn. Also maneuverability is an issue. Jet pack infantry want to bounce around, but that one broadside anchors the line a bit.


See, I like the hard limit on army size that 500 points can force. It makes it feel more like a real skirmish game. Though I will try 1200 points.

Also, IW army for reference.
Spoiler:

HQ
Iron Warriors Warp smith
Gift of mutation

Troops

Iron warriors Havocs
4 get Missile Launchers
champ gets servo arm

Iron warriors Havocs
4 get Missile Launchers
champ gets servo arm

Iron warriors Havocs
4 get Missile Launchers
champ gets servo arm

Iron warriors Havocs
4 get heavy bolters
champ gets servo arm

Iron warriors Havocs
4 get heavy bolters
champ gets servo arm

Iron warriors Havocs
4 get heavy bolters
champ gets servo arm

Heavy Support

Predator
Twinlinked lascannon, 2 las cannon sponsons

Predator
Twinlinked lascannon, 2 las cannon sponsons

Sleneshi Predator
Havok launcher, Blast master, Blast master sponsons


Can you guess why this might have been a weird machup with the Tau? Did you guess that the IW were doing what the Tau were doing for more, but with better armor? Yeah... It would have come down to the blast master scatters. Now think about how sad the orcs would be as every unit on the oponents side could murder the everliving gak out of them. The Tau list was fairly efficient, but this one probably has more omph... and units that can hold their own in CC.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/07 08:33:55


 
   
 
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