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hi all,

i have been in search for a respirator to use when airbrushing miniatures. i have some links to amazon and ebay, could somebody tell me which one is suitable for spraying acrylic paints, and maybe airbrush cleaner

http://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-4255-Respirator-Protection-FFA2P3/dp/B004OYQ4LC/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1404838240&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=3M%E2%84%A2+Organic+Vapor+Respirator

http://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-4279-Maintenance-Reusable-Respirator/dp/B0041OMOUA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_diy_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0NZ7GZMXAQ55C5SPVZGE

http://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-4277-Maintenance-Reusable-respirator/dp/B008BHHZUM/ref=pd_sim_sbs_diy_7?ie=UTF8&refRID=0NZ7GZMXAQ55C5SPVZGE

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Expo-Face-Mask-AB110-/400478462898?pt=UK_BOI_ProtectiveGear_RL&hash=item5d3e6063b2

could really do with the help, cheers

LS40k

None of those. you need a paint respirator.

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Apaint%20respirator

ok, thanks for the quick reply. ive just heard its a good idea to use one (even people don't) when spraying acrylics

cheers,
LS40k

I just use a dust mask. I paint with (supposedly harmless) acrylic paints and the airbrush itself, unlike aerosol cans, is quite precise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you want to be extra-safe there is of course no harm in that - but those paint respirators are for Automotive painting... not what we do.

 Gunzhard wrote:
I just use a dust mask. I paint with (supposedly harmless) acrylic paints and the airbrush itself, unlike aerosol cans, is quite precise.

A dust mask does not filter out the paint particles or fumes. Not all acrylics are harmless and it's never a bad idea to invest in a good respirator for your own health and safety.

fair enough guys, i have come across another on amazon where people who have reviewed it have said they use it for airbrushing models with acrylics, but are THEY using the right one?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-Spray-respirator-06941-filter/dp/B0051BNCP8

 Sammoth wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:
I just use a dust mask. I paint with (supposedly harmless) acrylic paints and the airbrush itself, unlike aerosol cans, is quite precise.

A dust mask does not filter out the paint particles or fumes. Not all acrylics are harmless and it's never a bad idea to invest in a good respirator for your own health and safety.

A dust mask WILL filter out the paint particles - and you shouldn't have fumes if you are using water based paints and not getting funky with your thinners (alcohol, ammonia, lacquer thinner...would be right out). Droplet sizes for wet paint are far larger than even the cheapest of dust masks would fail to filter. Paint, being paint, sticks well to the filter medium too - so it doesn't normally move past the very surface. The larger safety issue is actually with the fine powder created from overspray...but the correct safety protocol for that would be to paint in a negative pressure environment (to prevent spreading the contaminating dust) and follow clean up and containment protocols like wet cleaning or using a certified HEPA vacuum to remove the particulate...but I am pretty sure no one is doing that with their airbrushing (I have yet to see one thread about creating a DIY class 100 cleanroom with an air shower...).

It isn't that a dust mask or respirator are a bad idea if you want one...but if you are really concerned, it is a good idea understand things beyond what is tossed about on forums and YouTube videos.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

 Sammoth wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:
I just use a dust mask. I paint with (supposedly harmless) acrylic paints and the airbrush itself, unlike aerosol cans, is quite precise.

A dust mask does not filter out the paint particles or fumes. Not all acrylics are harmless and it's never a bad idea to invest in a good respirator for your own health and safety.

A dust mask WILL filter out the paint particles - and you shouldn't have fumes if you are using water based paints and not getting funky with your thinners (alcohol, ammonia, lacquer thinner...would be right out). Droplet sizes for wet paint are far larger than even the cheapest of dust masks would fail to filter. Paint, being paint, sticks well to the filter medium too - so it doesn't normally move past the very surface. The larger safety issue is actually with the fine powder created from overspray...but the correct safety protocol for that would be to paint in a negative pressure environment (to prevent spreading the contaminating dust) and follow clean up and containment protocols like wet cleaning or using a certified HEPA vacuum to remove the particulate...but I am pretty sure no one is doing that with their airbrushing (I have yet to see one thread about creating a DIY class 100 cleanroom with an air shower...).

It isn't that a dust mask or respirator are a bad idea if you want one...but if you are really concerned, it is a good idea understand things beyond what is tossed about on forums and YouTube videos.

thanks for the reply sean. ive been looking on other forums and articles on the internet and keep hearing different things. I actually heard about using a respirator on youtube, a guy called ichiban painting was recommending a 3m 6000 respirator with 6001 filters, but i dont know whether he's using the correct equipment or he THINKS he is using the correct equipment.

i was going to be using vallejo game color paints(as they match citadel paints quite well, but wont be using the cadmium filled paints though an airbrush) thinned with vallejo's own thinner and distilled water. at the end of the session i was going to use vallejo's airbrush cleaner followed by some distilled water.

however all this talk of acryllics lining your lungs when airbrushed or what to do to counter act these health hazards has been putting me off as i dont know whehter its safe to spray poly-urethane primer, then basecoat and highlight several models in one go whilst outside, better to be safe than sorry,right?

cheers
LS40k




Automatically Appended Next Post:
and for some reason my reply was put amongst the quote lol

I would go with any of the 3M brand respies, so long as they had organic vapour filters.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

 Sammoth wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:
I just use a dust mask. I paint with (supposedly harmless) acrylic paints and the airbrush itself, unlike aerosol cans, is quite precise.

A dust mask does not filter out the paint particles or fumes. Not all acrylics are harmless and it's never a bad idea to invest in a good respirator for your own health and safety.

A dust mask WILL filter out the paint particles - and you shouldn't have fumes if you are using water based paints and not getting funky with your thinners (alcohol, ammonia, lacquer thinner...would be right out). Droplet sizes for wet paint are far larger than even the cheapest of dust masks would fail to filter. Paint, being paint, sticks well to the filter medium too - so it doesn't normally move past the very surface. The larger safety issue is actually with the fine powder created from overspray...but the correct safety protocol for that would be to paint in a negative pressure environment (to prevent spreading the contaminating dust) and follow clean up and containment protocols like wet cleaning or using a certified HEPA vacuum to remove the particulate...but I am pretty sure no one is doing that with their airbrushing (I have yet to see one thread about creating a DIY class 100 cleanroom with an air shower...).

It isn't that a dust mask or respirator are a bad idea if you want one...but if you are really concerned, it is a good idea understand things beyond what is tossed about on forums and YouTube videos.

it's not much of a droplet, and it is definitely not large. it's not like someone is sneezing on you. do you realize how fine the airbrush spray is? do you realize how small the particles are when spraying high quality hobby paints?
Im no expert but im guessing pretty fricken small.

you act like you know what youre talking about but im not convinced.
so please, explain further how some gak dustmask that doesn't even seal onto the face is going to protect against a spray like that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gunzhard wrote:
I just use a dust mask. I paint with (supposedly harmless) acrylic paints and the airbrush itself, unlike aerosol cans, is quite precise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you want to be extra-safe there is of course no harm in that - but those paint respirators are for Automotive painting... not what we do.

also incorrect. commercial automotive paint is usually two part paint containing isocyanate (a paint hardener). for this kind of painting you would need a full suit with fresh air supply in addition to spray booth, fume hood etc.

those paint respirators would not be good enough for car painting.

kb305 wrote:
do you realize how fine the airbrush spray is? do you realize how small the particles are when spraying high quality hobby paints?
Im no expert but im guessing pretty fricken small.

Most people don't realize that what they are referring to as 'dust masks' do work just fine.

As recommended by CDC You should use a NIOSH-approved respirator equipped with dust and mist filters for spraying water-based paints (acrylic).

This mask as an example most people call a dust mask or sanding mask. People tend to get confused and think that a respirator usually means a bulky device. The mask is a N95 It means it is not resistant to oil and operates at a 95% effeciency. N Series work against solid and water-based particulates (i.e., non-oil aerosols). Acrylic based paint is a water based, non oil based paint so it would be fine.

The selection of N-, R-, and P-series filters depends on the presence or absence of oil particles, as follows:
If no oil particles are present in the work environment, use a filter of any series (i.e., N-, R-, or P-series).
If oil particles (e.g., lubricants, cutting fluids, glycerine, etc.) are present, use an R- or P-series filter. Note: N-series filters cannot be used if oil particles are present.
If oil particles are present and the filter is to be used for more than one work shift, use only a P-series filter.
Note: To help you remember the filter series, use the following guide:
N for Not resistant to oil,
R for Resistant to oil
P for oil Proof


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Chrissy_J wrote:
I would go with any of the 3M brand respies, so long as they had organic vapour filters.

Yes a pretty decent choice given the cost for them as well.

Today there are many paint products that are marketed as ‘safe’, yet there may still be harmful low-level VOC emissions, such as glycol ether. Examples: many water-based paints, acrylic floor finish, some artist acrylics, low odor, low VOC solvents, and printmaking resists. Although a full organic respirator may be impractical for a day’s work we would recommend wearing a disposable light weight mask that offers some organic vapor protection.

Product example: 3M™ Particulate Respirator 8514, N95, with Nuisance Level Organic Vapor Relief

 Dark Severance wrote:

kb305 wrote:
do you realize how fine the airbrush spray is? do you realize how small the particles are when spraying high quality hobby paints?
Im no expert but im guessing pretty fricken small.

Most people don't realize that what they are referring to as 'dust masks' do work just fine.

As recommended by CDC You should use a NIOSH-approved respirator equipped with dust and mist filters for spraying water-based paints (acrylic).

This mask as an example most people call a dust mask or sanding mask. People tend to get confused and think that a respirator usually means a bulky device. The mask is a N95 It means it is not resistant to oil and operates at a 95% effeciency. N Series work against solid and water-based particulates (i.e., non-oil aerosols). Acrylic based paint is a water based, non oil based paint so it would be fine.

ive seen people in the industry refer to those dust masks as feel good masks. as in they don't do much of anything besides make you feel OK about it.

also you are not factoring in that airbrush mist with high quality hobby paints is infinitely smaller than dust or sand. im curious how small the main paint companies that we use (gw, army painter, vallejo etc) grind their pigments, particle size does matter. that dust mask does not even form an airtight seal around your face. it is not uncommon to be airbrushing for 1-3 hours or longer at a time for me. also ive seen the msds for army painter warpaints, they have ammonia right in the paint already.

anyways, its your choice, god help you if you trust your health to a dustmask.

kb305 wrote:
ive seen people in the industry refer to those dust masks as feel good masks. as in they don't do much of anything besides make you feel OK about it.

also you are not factoring in that airbrush mist with high quality hobby paints is infinitely smaller than dust or sand. im curious how small the main paint companies that we use (gw, army painter, vallejo etc) grind their pigments, particle size does matter. that dust mask does not even form an airtight seal around your face. it is not uncommon to be airbrushing for 1-3 hours or longer at a time for me. also ive seen the msds for army painter warpaints, they have ammonia right in the paint already.

anyways, its your choice, god help you if you trust your health to a dustmask.

Honestly a lot of people in the industry don't even know the difference between half the respirators. They say organic filter and N95 but don't really know what that means because that is what their requirements for their jobs say they have to use. Or it is what they were trained to use or someone suggested to them. What they refer to and even what you are referring about the particles are opinions. To be fair there are a lot of sanding particles that end up smaller than airbrush paint particles.

I did include the link to the CDC, explaining the rating for the masks along with the publications about the respirators which clearly explains everything, including the safety choices, health choices and ratings so you can understand the differences between them. They are outlined by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) guidelines backed up by a MD PhD. You can also search for similar material like Non-Toxic Print which also goes over the information of the different types of paints.

Really a trick question...

Particle size will vary due to paint viscosity, pressure and of course mechanical factors within the brush, however...

In a sneeze, the particle size ranges from 0.5 to around 10 nanometers in diameter. Tiny stuff. A properly fit dust mask will remove 95% of those particles (N95 compliant...which is about half of them...).

The size of airbrush particles (in terms of maximum minimum) is pretty small, but not insanely small. Computer controlled, metered fluid injectors achieve droplet diameters of around 2-10 microns. Fluid injectors are effectively a very finely engineered airbrush (so finely engineered that it makes a high end Iwata look like a crowbar). The limit for manual controlled pneumatic application of fluids has been shown to be 10 microns with most being closer to 100 microns (numbers based on the Chemical Engineers Handbook - 2003).

Pigment particle size being a factor as well - you have ink pigments (about as close to fluid as any hobby paints will ever come - but honestly never do) which normally are in the 0.1 micron range. Normal paint pigment particles are much larger than that. High end fluid dispersions generally have a particle size starting at around 1 micron and going up from there depending on what the pigment is. Things like matting agents are even more coarse - 30-60 microns for many silica based agents (numbers based on the Paint & Coatings Industry Guidebook - 2006).

Since even your cheapest nuisance dust masks (50 to a box for $5 at Walmart) are generally rated to filter at 0.5 microns...I would safely say, yes...they would filter the spray.

Since most the paint will be going away from your face (or at least it should be) the minor sealing issues around the edge should be negligible - but if worn correctly it is something that the impact should be minimized. You shouldn't have your face in the airstream of your paints. Your paints will go towards what you aim them at and unless you are using a god awful high pressure...they should mostly stop at whatever they hit. If you have your face down in your airstream...step back a bit. If you have cranked up to 40 PSI - thin your paints and lower your pressure. If you use any sort of airbrushing hood with an extraction fan...then you can probably even sit there with your face behind the paint cup and the pressure at 40 PSI without worry.

Really - it isn't unlike someone saying you should wear a bullet proof vest when you go to the shooting range...

Everyone who keeps mentioning organic filters...what organic compound are you looking to filter out? If you are actually spraying an organic solvent and not considering eye protection (not safety glasses - but sealing goggles or mask) to keep the vapors from permeating your mucous membranes around the eyes...you are missing the boat. Bit like wearing a hard hat and flip flops.

The organic vapor respirators are meant to deal with organic solvents - but they are used in conjunction with other protective equipment. When I am using Naptha to resize casts, Weld-On to glue up acrylic sheets, or using a lacquer thinner when dealing with wood stains/varnishes I use a respirator that has an organic vapor filter with a full face shield that ensures my eyes are protected and I wear gloves to keep from absorbing the solvent through my skin. When I use water based paints - I don't...there is nothing for the organic vapor cartridge to filter.

however all this talk of acryllics lining your lungs when airbrushed or what to do to counter act these health hazards has been putting me off as i dont know whehter its safe to spray poly-urethane primer,

The polyurethane primer that Vallejo makes is a water based acrylic-polyurethane. It is not unlike the waterbased poly-acrylic varnishes that you can buy by the gallon at big box stores for refinishing floors. You are really no less safe using that than you are using any of their other paints inside.

but wont be using the cadmium filled paints though an airbrush)

Oh noes...not the cadmium...

Which paints will you be avoiding then?

PALE FLESH, ELF SKINTONE, SUNBLAST YELLOW, GOLD YELLOW, ORANGE FIRE, HOT ORANGE, BLOODY RED, SCARLETT RED, FOUL GREEN, BRONZE FLESHTONE, FILTHY BROWN, DWARF SKIN, CHARRED BROWN, HAMMERED COPPER, TERRACOTTA, PALE YELLOW, ELFIC FLESH, CADM.SKIN, ROSY FLESH, HEAVY RED, HEAVY ORANGE

Not to make light of the concerns regarding cadmium (actually - I guess it is) but your exposure levels to cadmium from paint pigments are so far below anything that is even measurable in a significant way it is ridiculous. I know the big scare came out of Chicagoland a few years ago where someone swore up and down that their doctor told them they got cancer from licking their brushes or some such (and they might have gotten cancer...and they might have been told it was from paints...) but the reality is that you are exposed to about 30 micrograms of cadmium each day from eating food. A full bottle of paint has roughly 30 milligrams of cadmium pigment in the highest concentration that Vallejo uses. There are roughly 550 drops per bottle - so each drop of paint from the dropper bottle would have 54 micrograms of cadmium pigment...

And that is pigment - the pigment is not pure cadmium, but a compound (either Cadmium Sulphoselenide or Cadmium Calcinated Zinc Sulphide). In the case of Cadmium Sulphoselenide the cadmium makes up less than half the weight of the pigment, the other has even less. Both put the amount of cadmium you would be exposed to if you were to swallow the whole drop at less than what you are exposed to every day while just living.

There are definitely concerns relating to chemicals like Cadmium - but it is important to put things into perspective. Cadmium, in terms of being a hazardous and potential carcinogen is as it relates to occupational exposure levels (working 40+ hours a week in a zinc metal smelting factory for example). Your average person (who does not live right next to said zinc smelting factory) is at a minimal risk of exposure, even if they were to paint on a daily basis using paints that contained cadmium.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
Really a trick question...

Particle size will vary due to paint viscosity, pressure and of course mechanical factors within the brush, however...

In a sneeze, the particle size ranges from 0.5 to around 10 nanometers in diameter. Tiny stuff. A properly fit dust mask will remove 95% of those particles (N95 compliant...which is about half of them...).

The size of airbrush particles (in terms of maximum minimum) is pretty small, but not insanely small. Computer controlled, metered fluid injectors achieve droplet diameters of around 2-10 microns. Fluid injectors are effectively a very finely engineered airbrush (so finely engineered that it makes a high end Iwata look like a crowbar). The limit for manual controlled pneumatic application of fluids has been shown to be 10 microns with most being closer to 100 microns (numbers based on the Chemical Engineers Handbook - 2003).

Pigment particle size being a factor as well - you have ink pigments (about as close to fluid as any hobby paints will ever come - but honestly never do) which normally are in the 0.1 micron range. Normal paint pigment particles are much larger than that. High end fluid dispersions generally have a particle size starting at around 1 micron and going up from there depending on what the pigment is. Things like matting agents are even more coarse - 30-60 microns for many silica based agents (numbers based on the Paint & Coatings Industry Guidebook - 2006).

Since even your cheapest nuisance dust masks (50 to a box for $5 at Walmart) are generally rated to filter at 0.5 microns...I would safely say, yes...they would filter the spray.

Since most the paint will be going away from your face (or at least it should be) the minor sealing issues around the edge should be negligible - but if worn correctly it is something that the impact should be minimized. You shouldn't have your face in the airstream of your paints. Your paints will go towards what you aim them at and unless you are using a god awful high pressure...they should mostly stop at whatever they hit. If you have your face down in your airstream...step back a bit. If you have cranked up to 40 PSI - thin your paints and lower your pressure. If you use any sort of airbrushing hood with an extraction fan...then you can probably even sit there with your face behind the paint cup and the pressure at 40 PSI without worry.

Really - it isn't unlike someone saying you should wear a bullet proof vest when you go to the shooting range...

Everyone who keeps mentioning organic filters...what organic compound are you looking to filter out? If you are actually spraying an organic solvent and not considering eye protection (not safety glasses - but sealing goggles or mask) to keep the vapors from permeating your mucous membranes around the eyes...you are missing the boat. Bit like wearing a hard hat and flip flops.

The organic vapor respirators are meant to deal with organic solvents - but they are used in conjunction with other protective equipment. When I am using Naptha to resize casts, Weld-On to glue up acrylic sheets, or using a lacquer thinner when dealing with wood stains/varnishes I use a respirator that has an organic vapor filter with a full face shield that ensures my eyes are protected and I wear gloves to keep from absorbing the solvent through my skin. When I use water based paints - I don't...there is nothing for the organic vapor cartridge to filter.

however all this talk of acryllics lining your lungs when airbrushed or what to do to counter act these health hazards has been putting me off as i dont know whehter its safe to spray poly-urethane primer,

The polyurethane primer that Vallejo makes is a water based acrylic-polyurethane. It is not unlike the waterbased poly-acrylic varnishes that you can buy by the gallon at big box stores for refinishing floors. You are really no less safe using that than you are using any of their other paints inside.

but wont be using the cadmium filled paints though an airbrush)

Oh noes...not the cadmium...

Which paints will you be avoiding then?

PALE FLESH, ELF SKINTONE, SUNBLAST YELLOW, GOLD YELLOW, ORANGE FIRE, HOT ORANGE, BLOODY RED, SCARLETT RED, FOUL GREEN, BRONZE FLESHTONE, FILTHY BROWN, DWARF SKIN, CHARRED BROWN, HAMMERED COPPER, TERRACOTTA, PALE YELLOW, ELFIC FLESH, CADM.SKIN, ROSY FLESH, HEAVY RED, HEAVY ORANGE

Not to make light of the concerns regarding cadmium (actually - I guess it is) but your exposure levels to cadmium from paint pigments are so far below anything that is even measurable in a significant way it is ridiculous. I know the big scare came out of Chicagoland a few years ago where someone swore up and down that their doctor told them they got cancer from licking their brushes or some such (and they might have gotten cancer...and they might have been told it was from paints...) but the reality is that you are exposed to about 30 micrograms of cadmium each day from eating food. A full bottle of paint has roughly 30 milligrams of cadmium pigment in the highest concentration that Vallejo uses. There are roughly 550 drops per bottle - so each drop of paint from the dropper bottle would have 54 micrograms of cadmium pigment...

And that is pigment - the pigment is not pure cadmium, but a compound (either Cadmium Sulphoselenide or Cadmium Calcinated Zinc Sulphide). In the case of Cadmium Sulphoselenide the cadmium makes up less than half the weight of the pigment, the other has even less. Both put the amount of cadmium you would be exposed to if you were to swallow the whole drop at less than what you are exposed to every day while just living.

There are definitely concerns relating to chemicals like Cadmium - but it is important to put things into perspective. Cadmium, in terms of being a hazardous and potential carcinogen is as it relates to occupational exposure levels (working 40+ hours a week in a zinc metal smelting factory for example). Your average person (who does not live right next to said zinc smelting factory) is at a minimal risk of exposure, even if they were to paint on a daily basis using paints that contained cadmium.

Bit much don't you think ? I mean the guy asked an opinion about it and we gave truth. I felt he should not cheap out on dust mask because they are not paint rated buy OSHA standards. There is absolutely nothing wrong for looking out for your own health. If he chooses to go the dust mask way then so be it. We are not talking about just the chemicals. You still don't want that paint/ anything else in your lungs no matter what type of paint/ etc. it is. I know myself I spray varnish as well among other things while using and airbrush. Cleaners/ Thinners/ Drying Retarder etc.

Another thing you did not even take into consideration is what kind of area the OP is spraying in. Is it well ventilated etc.

Besides one of these masks for paint are not very expensive at all. Why not just be safe than sorry ?

Bit much don't you think ?

Not really.

I mean the guy asked an opinion about it and we gave truth.

You gave opinion when you said that a dust mask style respirator would not filter paint. It will filter paint. I said as much, and that was challenged, so I followed up with why it will actually filter paint particles (both fluid and dried paints).

I felt he should not cheap out on dust mask because they are not paint rated buy OSHA standards.

But they are. They may not be rated for organic vapors (some actually are and have something like activated carbon between the layers of filter media to remove a large amount of organic vapors). All the masks which he linked to are equally suitable - as would the disposable masks that you find in most stores.

There really isn't a "paint rating" that I am aware of. The ratings are based off from compounds and efficiencies for a given size particle. If you aren't spraying an organic compound - you don't need an organic vapor filter. The N95 rated disposable masks are plenty efficient (you can even get N99 rated disposable masks).

There is absolutely nothing wrong for looking out for your own health.

Correct - I have said as much hundreds of times.

We are not talking about just the chemicals. You still don't want that paint/ anything else in your lungs no matter what type of paint/ etc.

No, we are not...which is why I mention the actual paint droplet size as well as paint pigment size. Much like the scare tactics around resin - the issue is less about what it is, and more about it simply being something you don't want to breathe in. Breathing in any sort of dust is bad. Breathing in atomized paint is bad. Filtering those things out are pretty easy though. If it is a concern though - you should fully educate yourself regarding the concerns. Once you are done painting - all that overspray that you think you might have a chance of breathing in has had to settle somewhere. It becomes very fine dust particles. As you move stuff about, blow dust off from figures your painted last weekend, clean up for guests coming over... all those fine dust particles are stirred back up into the air and you are now breathing them in without the benefit of any sort of filter. An extraction hood will capture and secure that overspray though. If it is vented externally - anything that makes it through the filter will be exhausted outside. That provides better protection against paint/anything else in your lungs.

I know myself I spray varnish as well among other things while using and airbrush. Cleaners/ Thinners/ Drying Retarder etc.

I spray everything. From water based paints to lacquers, enamels and oils. I do not wear anything on my face when I airbrush. I was an OSHA certified hazardous materials PPE manager and a 5192 Hazardous Materials emergency response clean up technician in California (think it was 5192...may be mixing up my codes there...). With that in mind - I am entirely comfortable in the informed decisions I make for my own safety. I do use a powered air supply full face mask with organic vapor filters for some shop work (normally when I am doing something like finishing a table and have large volumes of solvents like lacquer thinners or building an acrylic aquarium and am using pure methyl ethyl death to weld the joints). I even use a SCBA apparatus and tyvek bunny suits when I am spraying conversion varnishes or catalyzed finishes like POR15 or other two part paints.

You can minimize your exposure with simple techniques...but using an improperly sized respirator with an organic vapor filter can create a false sense of security compared to using a regular dust mask type filter and using basic techniques to minimize your exposure.

Regarding that "paint respirator" though - it provides a good fit...for a portion of the population. Think their target is around 60-70%. For the other 30-40% the fit quality is not sufficient to create a seal and ensure that all the air your are inhaling is filtered. Now with a cheap filter mask - the path of least resistance allows a larger portion of the air to be filtered (albeit no as well) by the fibers that are rubbing against your face. The rubber seal mask though...it is pure leakage. While it is stereotyping a good bit - many gamers body sizes and shapes do not fall into the "average" range. The likelihood of him getting a poorly fitting mask is greater, and that could pose a problem should he actually need a organic vapor filter. If he does - get it properly fit. The test is usually a couple of hundred dollars if you pay out of pocket - but I pay it every year to ensure my masks still fit because at this point, I still only get this one body to abuse.

Concerns for chemicals, cleaners, thinners, drying retarders... are not necessarily unfounded, and we do not know where he will be painting. A half face mask respirator - even one which fits well only prevents half the exposure. Most organic vapors quite happily will enter the body through the eyes and many will enter straight through exposed skin. If he is airbrushing in an unventilated closet using Testor's Dullcote and wearing an organic vapor respirator - he may not smell it, but he is damaging his liver/kidneys/brain.

Besides one of these masks for paint are not very expensive at all. Why not just be safe than sorry ?

Cost shouldn't be a significant concern - though to that point, an extraction hood costs just a little more, and is infinitely safer.

In general I believe he (and anyone else concerned) should inform themselves, take a class, read a book. Do not rely on internet truisms and YouTube experts for the safety of your body and mind. OSHA studies have shown that improperly worn PPE and educated workers increase their exposure to harmful substances significantly. The feel good mask comment is a long held position, but it isn't the whole story. The reality is that the feel good mask is used to refer to all the half face masks (or so goes the industry superlatives...Dust Mask is a feel good mask if you have an N95 disposable mask...N95 disposable mask is a feel good mask if you have a half face cartridge respirator...half face mask is a feel good mask if you have a full face mask...full face mask is a feel good mask if you have a powered air supply mask...). It is a comment that is usually started by a corporate sales rep in order to up sell you to what they have in their hand. It is marketing speak, that often then gets echoed by the people who were just sold on the product. All the masks work for their purpose - if they didn't, there wouldn't be a chance in hell they would remain on the market in the US given the litigious nature of our culture. 3M wouldn't risk the class action lawsuit for a half million some odd people who develop silicosis or some other dust related illness.

So in your vast knowledge. You'rer saying dust masks fit better than other masks. Last time I wore one they do not fit snug to your face. You'e basically saying he should go with the cheaper one since it already offers the same protection. Lets just say he can get one as long w s its rated for paint. And leave it at that.

I'm not sure what the exact definition of "dust mask" is, but I'd be going for one of the masks with a rubber seal so that it actually seals to your face and has the replaceable particulate filters.

Seems kind of pointless to get a mask, particulate or otherwise, that has gaping holes in the side of it that particles get through anyway.

Also, if you have a beard, most of the effectiveness of a mask is gone. I have a beard that I have no intention of shaving off and OHS required me to wear a full face thingo instead of just a mask. Needless to say, I just got other people to do the work that required a mask, lol (lucky I was in a senior position that I could tell other people to do it for me and there was enough other work that I could just delegate myself to the jobs that didn't need a mask).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-4251-06941-Spray-Paint-Dust-Mask-Vapour-Particulate-Reusable-Respirator-/301077230934?pt=UK_BOI_ProtectiveGear_RL&hash=item461999f556

I use one of these - think it's in you're amazon links at £5 more, I know it works because Vallejo have added some lovely overpowering fragrance to the paint range and you don't smell it with this on.

Sean_OBrien wrote:Really a trick question...

Particle size will vary due to paint viscosity, pressure and of course mechanical factors within the brush, however...

In a sneeze, the particle size ranges from 0.5 to around 10 nanometers in diameter. Tiny stuff. A properly fit dust mask will remove 95% of those particles (N95 compliant...which is about half of them...).

The size of airbrush particles (in terms of maximum minimum) is pretty small, but not insanely small. Computer controlled, metered fluid injectors achieve droplet diameters of around 2-10 microns. Fluid injectors are effectively a very finely engineered airbrush (so finely engineered that it makes a high end Iwata look like a crowbar). The limit for manual controlled pneumatic application of fluids has been shown to be 10 microns with most being closer to 100 microns (numbers based on the Chemical Engineers Handbook - 2003).

Pigment particle size being a factor as well - you have ink pigments (about as close to fluid as any hobby paints will ever come - but honestly never do) which normally are in the 0.1 micron range. Normal paint pigment particles are much larger than that. High end fluid dispersions generally have a particle size starting at around 1 micron and going up from there depending on what the pigment is. Things like matting agents are even more coarse - 30-60 microns for many silica based agents (numbers based on the Paint & Coatings Industry Guidebook - 2006).

Since even your cheapest nuisance dust masks (50 to a box for $5 at Walmart) are generally rated to filter at 0.5 microns...I would safely say, yes...they would filter the spray.

Since most the paint will be going away from your face (or at least it should be) the minor sealing issues around the edge should be negligible - but if worn correctly it is something that the impact should be minimized. You shouldn't have your face in the airstream of your paints. Your paints will go towards what you aim them at and unless you are using a god awful high pressure...they should mostly stop at whatever they hit. If you have your face down in your airstream...step back a bit. If you have cranked up to 40 PSI - thin your paints and lower your pressure. If you use any sort of airbrushing hood with an extraction fan...then you can probably even sit there with your face behind the paint cup and the pressure at 40 PSI without worry.

Really - it isn't unlike someone saying you should wear a bullet proof vest when you go to the shooting range...

Everyone who keeps mentioning organic filters...what organic compound are you looking to filter out? If you are actually spraying an organic solvent and not considering eye protection (not safety glasses - but sealing goggles or mask) to keep the vapors from permeating your mucous membranes around the eyes...you are missing the boat. Bit like wearing a hard hat and flip flops.

The organic vapor respirators are meant to deal with organic solvents - but they are used in conjunction with other protective equipment. When I am using Naptha to resize casts, Weld-On to glue up acrylic sheets, or using a lacquer thinner when dealing with wood stains/varnishes I use a respirator that has an organic vapor filter with a full face shield that ensures my eyes are protected and I wear gloves to keep from absorbing the solvent through my skin. When I use water based paints - I don't...there is nothing for the organic vapor cartridge to filter.

however all this talk of acryllics lining your lungs when airbrushed or what to do to counter act these health hazards has been putting me off as i dont know whehter its safe to spray poly-urethane primer,

The polyurethane primer that Vallejo makes is a water based acrylic-polyurethane. It is not unlike the waterbased poly-acrylic varnishes that you can buy by the gallon at big box stores for refinishing floors. You are really no less safe using that than you are using any of their other paints inside.

but wont be using the cadmium filled paints though an airbrush)

Oh noes...not the cadmium...

Which paints will you be avoiding then?

PALE FLESH, ELF SKINTONE, SUNBLAST YELLOW, GOLD YELLOW, ORANGE FIRE, HOT ORANGE, BLOODY RED, SCARLETT RED, FOUL GREEN, BRONZE FLESHTONE, FILTHY BROWN, DWARF SKIN, CHARRED BROWN, HAMMERED COPPER, TERRACOTTA, PALE YELLOW, ELFIC FLESH, CADM.SKIN, ROSY FLESH, HEAVY RED, HEAVY ORANGE

Not to make light of the concerns regarding cadmium (actually - I guess it is) but your exposure levels to cadmium from paint pigments are so far below anything that is even measurable in a significant way it is ridiculous. I know the big scare came out of Chicagoland a few years ago where someone swore up and down that their doctor told them they got cancer from licking their brushes or some such (and they might have gotten cancer...and they might have been told it was from paints...) but the reality is that you are exposed to about 30 micrograms of cadmium each day from eating food. A full bottle of paint has roughly 30 milligrams of cadmium pigment in the highest concentration that Vallejo uses. There are roughly 550 drops per bottle - so each drop of paint from the dropper bottle would have 54 micrograms of cadmium pigment...

And that is pigment - the pigment is not pure cadmium, but a compound (either Cadmium Sulphoselenide or Cadmium Calcinated Zinc Sulphide). In the case of Cadmium Sulphoselenide the cadmium makes up less than half the weight of the pigment, the other has even less. Both put the amount of cadmium you would be exposed to if you were to swallow the whole drop at less than what you are exposed to every day while just living.

There are definitely concerns relating to chemicals like Cadmium - but it is important to put things into perspective. Cadmium, in terms of being a hazardous and potential carcinogen is as it relates to occupational exposure levels (working 40+ hours a week in a zinc metal smelting factory for example). Your average person (who does not live right next to said zinc smelting factory) is at a minimal risk of exposure, even if they were to paint on a daily basis using paints that contained cadmium.

thanks for the replies people, i would be avoiding those paints as the cadmium is safe to use except for when you spray it and its inhaled, like asbestos you can eat it but not inhale it lol. i appreciate your well thought out post and knowledge. i have been researching this stuff online but theres always been conflicting info, such as only use a respirator when you know the acrylic is non toxic, thats from a published airbrush guide, not mentioning anything about particulates.

if it helps the situation i will be spraying outside as it the best ventilation solution available and im not going to be spraying armies in one session, only a few models at a time. i just wanted to know the correct information in regards to safety (thanks to dark severance posting the cdc.gov link) as i dont know whether the limited time frame of spraying outside would cause problems or wheteher it is safe and im just going overboard due to hearing all this conflicting information, which seems to happen on any subject, like claims that egg yolks are bad for you but then you see somewhere else that they're good for you lol

again i appreciate everybody's input, and as my parents have told me throughout the years im a 'worrier' so i may be going overboard, but i dont like rushing in headlong with things anymore it usually has a cost to it whether financially or health wise

cheers

Sheesh guys this is starting to look like a "40k general" thread...

I'm no scientist but I always thought the glues we use, and even resin models/dust were far more dangerous than acrylic paints. But I guess you never can be too safe.

i suppose a lot of things in our everyday life is hazardous to an extent, i mean all the cars on the road and planes in the air are pumping out pollution, probably not great for our health lol, just trying to minimize the effects of dealing with hazardous material is all.

Everyone who keeps mentioning organic filters...what organic compound are you looking to filter out? If you are actually spraying an organic solvent and not considering eye protection (not safety glasses - but sealing goggles or mask) to keep the vapors from permeating your mucous membranes around the eyes...you are missing the boat. Bit like wearing a hard hat and flip flops.

An important point.
When I was a welder, my company's health and safety regulations required us to wear disposable dust masks to reduce the risk of inhaling fumes from the welding process. No-one mentioned eye protection.
At the end of the day my spectacles would be covered in a layer of dirt and smoke particles - on both sides of the lenses. That same pollution would certainly be on my face and on the surface of my eyes as well.

Should you be so unfortunate as to have a lung disease, it's possible to get a transplanted organ. No-one can give you new eyes.
Look after the kit you're issued with.

 Gunzhard wrote:
Sheesh guys this is starting to look like a "40k general" thread...

I'm no scientist but I always thought the glues we use, and even resin models/dust were far more dangerous than acrylic paints. But I guess you never can be too safe.

In 30 years when we've all died of lung and brain cancers I guess we'll find out. Until then, I like to minimise my risks a bit. Airbrushing without proper ventilation can create quite a cloud of fumes and I don't trust the solvents in the thinners and binders that we use.

It's best to avoid inhaling stuff whenever you can.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:
Sheesh guys this is starting to look like a "40k general" thread...

I'm no scientist but I always thought the glues we use, and even resin models/dust were far more dangerous than acrylic paints. But I guess you never can be too safe.

In 30 years when we've all died of lung and brain cancers I guess we'll find out. Until then, I like to minimise my risks a bit. Airbrushing without proper ventilation can create quite a cloud of fumes and I don't trust the solvents in the thinners and binders that we use.

It's best to avoid inhaling stuff whenever you can.

That actually leads to an interesting extension of this discussion...

40 years ago - Lead was the primary agent to create white and increase coverage. They did away with that because people couldn't seem to keep their kids from gnawing on window sills. The replacement, titanium dioxide is currently being investigated as a possible carcinogen...unfortunate for all those parents who decided to let their kids teethe on the molding in their house. That would, by the way, put every single paint on the market in the same class as those which contain cadmium (with the exception of a very small handful of clears and inks)...

A lot of the stuff which is new and "non-toxic" is really just new and untested (in particular when it comes to things like safer stripping agents and cleaners). I myself prefer something with 100 years worth of industrial hygene history that I know how it is going to kill me (and what must be done in order to prevent that from happening) as opposed to the latest and greatest environmentally friendly compounds - which are often not identified at all (trade secrets and all).

I'm no scientist but I always thought the glues we use, and even resin models/dust were far more dangerous than acrylic paints. But I guess you never can be too safe.

The solvent cements and CA glues can pose health risks in large quantities. Generally much larger than the whole containers which are sold for hobby painting. Resin dust isn't really any more dangerous than any other dust (actually less dangerous than something's like MDF dust). However, all dust is bad for you. Small amounts are able to be expelled by the body by the cilia and coughing - but large amounts of dust and very fine dust particles will get lodged in the lungs and can develop into disorders that are on par with silicosis, black lung disease and other related illnesses. In those with a particular predisposition - it can lead to cancerous tumors forming around the particles and potentially spreading through the body.

Minimize the amount of dust you create, contain it and clean it up using a good quality vacuum (one which is able to actually contain dust as opposed to spread it back out through the exhaust) or clean your work surfaces with a moist paper towel and dispose of that before it dries up.

Hmm I'm pretty sure most of the hobby type glue has toxic fume warnings right on the bottle...

Yes, and garbage bags have warning labels too. Under normal use, neither pose a health risk.

The amount of chemical that evaporates when you open up a bottle of something like Testor's Plastic Cement is fairly small. Barring an unusual situation (working in a closet with the door shut and no ventilation) the small amount which evaporates will dissipate throughout the room and be dealt with by normal household ventilation systems. We are talking about parts per billion in terms of the chemical to clean air.

One of the more hazardous chemicals which we will come across in hobby stuff is Toluene. It has a OSHA PEL of 200 parts per million - roughly 750 mg per cubic meter. The NIOSH limit is 100 ppm (and conversely 375 mg/m3). A whole bottle of Testor's Cement would have in an absolute worse case scenario 132 mg of toluene in it (assuming 100% toluene - which it isn't). This means that if somehow you were to be working in a closet with a volume of less than half a cubic meter and somehow spilled a full bottle of cement onto a hot plate causing it to flash evaporate...you would still be below the NIOSH PEL for the most dangerous chemical in solvent cements.

Not to say that I would encourage working in a closet with no ventilation and a hot plate...but if you found yourself in that situation, the potential health risk would be minimal.

Everything needs to be put into perspective.

 Gunzhard wrote:
Hmm I'm pretty sure most of the hobby type glue has toxic fume warnings right on the bottle...

...and I don't go inhaling that either?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:
Hmm I'm pretty sure most of the hobby type glue has toxic fume warnings right on the bottle...

...and I don't go inhaling that either?

Hah good, you shouldn't. There are a lot of unhealthy dangers in this hobby, sharp blades, harmful fumes, harmful dust, toxic green stuff, built-in female repellent, etc etc...

I don't.

I have a well ventilated area, and have a large filter fan right next to me when I airbrush.

The only thing I spray that is a problem is alclad surface primer - this stuff sprays like a fog - for this I make sure I have even better airflow (I hold the model up to the back of the fan).