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So my 1500 list I feel is pretty solid, had more than a few games with it, most of them wins, and am generally happy with how it works (allowing for minor tweaks).

Here it is.
1500 Eldar



Now that I've gotten the hang of the list at 1500 I'm looking to move up to 1750. This is where y'all come in, I need some help and suggestions.

The two main units I'm considering are a squad of D-cannon batteries with an attached warlock for 200, then adding another warlock to my guardian squad (or getting two more spiders). This gives me 2 more psychic dice, a concealed squad with majority toughness 7 and 3 strength 10 blasts to mess up most anybody's day. The plan with this squad would be to act as an anchor, placed aggressively for board control, my wraithlord and scorpions (if not going on the offensive) could babysit/counter charge anything that went for it, and unless it has ignore cover not too much shooting is going to get through.

The other unit would be 3 vypers with 2x shuriken cannons. At 180 points I'd still have points for upgrades, a few more spiders, or warlocks. The advantage to this unit is speed and hitting power, but compared to the Cannons, its much more fragile and vulnerable to return fire.

My main army ideology is that everything either needs to be tough, or fast, or a combination.

So, any thoughts? Suggestions? I'm open to most, as I said I don't really want to change any units completely from the 1500 list, but tweaks and model number drops/adds are more than cool. And any idea on how to fill that last 250 points I'm open to. Thanks in advance.

I'm not seeing that Falcon that you say your Rangers might deploy in. You could very easily add that Falcon, some Exarchs and a few more Aspect Warriors, or instead of the Falcon, add a Crimson Hunter to give some level of air support. 250pts, the way I see it, is room for something big and tank-like and upgrades for everyone else and anti-air is the only glaringly missing thing on this list. It would fit very well with the speed theme that I'm seeing here and you don't necessarily need more anti-tank units with the wraith-everything on the table. A Crimson Hunter Exarch could be used against birds and, even better, to really ruin the enemy's back line.

Thanks for the response. I agree that 250 points should be spent on something big, tank like, and hopefully dangerous. While I have been having really good success with the list I feel it lacks a certain amount of "punch". Which is why I was thinking of something like D-cannons or tri-vypers. You're right though, the hunter is something I should definitely consider.

As to the falcon, that was a remnant from a slightly different list. Basically the falcon was replaced with the wraithlord, who I see as a better TAC choice. Although personally I did like the falcon and it aided my armor saturation.

Wraithlord adds the same armour saturation, as the weapons that will penetrate a tank will also be the weapons threatening your wraithlord.

I quite like war walkers ATM, you get a pretty good versatility there. I'd also consider a Crimson hunter exarch.

That is very true, I actually take falcons over Lords. They are 125 points and for less then the Lord, with the same number of HP. Also you can have 2 S8 AP2 shots and 3 S6 rending shots, along with being immune to S5. Hell, you could take 2 falcons, AND a Crimson hunter if you took out the Lord.

Why the Swooping hawks? Do they ever really out perform the same in Spiders? Sure they get one more shot, but it is S3 vs S6 with rending.


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War walkers are INSANE when you outflank them. Something like 60 a pop for 6 S6 rending shots and a 5++. they WILL die as soon as they are hit back, but as for outflanking infantry murder? #1. Hell, 5 more points and 3 of those rending shots become 2 AP2s.

Hawks and Spiders have two very different role. Hawks are utility, as they have the tools for any job (except TEQ hunting), while Spiders are bullies, allowing board control and flank attacks. Hawks also have that amazing no-scatter DS, which means they'll rarely, if ever, get shot if you don't want them to. Also much better at taking and contesting objectives, especially during final turns of the game. Hawks are amazing. Spiders are amazing. Having both is twice-amazing.

Though honestly, Hawks don't benefit from numbers as much as Spiders, since you need a relatively small squad size (6 is the best number) to do what needs to be done and hide afterward. With 8 in a squad, you'll find it much harder to hide them with their battle-focus after DS. Drop 2 Hawks, up the Spiders to 8.

Also, neither Falcons, nor WL are regarded as especially competitive, but I like them both. I'd use a WL in a foot-based hammer and anvil style army, while I'd take a Falcon in a mech or hybrid army, especially if I have Rangers that can stay safe from alpha strikes, make a good bubble-wrap around the Falcon if someone gets too close and can redeploy very fast to another objective, instead of being stuck in the place where you deploy them.

For the last 250 points, I'd grab 3 War Walkers with dual Scatterlasers or dual Brightlance (considering your imposing AT, I'd take Scatters) and spend the rest on some upgrades in your list.

I disagree about hawks, they are alright against infantry and vehicles. their no scatter DS allows for point taking but then again the spiders will get to move 3 D6 after landing. Short of T3 low armour like guard, orks or nids, they simply don't do the job for me. I have never had a unit of hawks survive contact. Where as the 3+ on the spiders keeps them in the game.

I agree that niether choice of heavy would be strongest. As for the Double scatter laser, why would you give up 3 twin linked Rending shots for one extra non twin linked NO AP shot?


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Then again with the new game variant, Maelstrom, I can see the hawks no scatter as being an important point taker. But as a Play To table kind of player, Spiders all day.

Colgado wrote:
So my 1500 list I feel is pretty solid, had more than a few games with it, most of them wins, and am generally happy with how it works (allowing for minor tweaks).

Here it is.
1500 Eldar

Spoiler:

HQ

Spiritseer-70 (with WG)


Troops

Wraithguard-305
serpent w/TL-SL/HF and scannon.

Guardians-250
SC platform, serpent w/TL-SL/HF and scannon.

Rangers-60

Elites

Striking Scorpions-159
x7 exarch w/claw

Fast Attack

Swooping Hawks-133
x8

Warp Spiders-114
x6

Heavy Support

Wraithknight-240


Wraithlord-165
flamers/2xbrightlance

1496

Now that I've gotten the hang of the list at 1500 I'm looking to move up to 1750. This is where y'all come in, I need some help and suggestions.

The two main units I'm considering are a squad of D-cannon batteries with an attached warlock for 200, then adding another warlock to my guardian squad (or getting two more spiders). This gives me 2 more psychic dice, a concealed squad with majority toughness 7 and 3 strength 10 blasts to mess up most anybody's day. The plan with this squad would be to act as an anchor, placed aggressively for board control, my wraithlord and scorpions (if not going on the offensive) could babysit/counter charge anything that went for it, and unless it has ignore cover not too much shooting is going to get through.

The other unit would be 3 vypers with 2x shuriken cannons. At 180 points I'd still have points for upgrades, a few more spiders, or warlocks. The advantage to this unit is speed and hitting power, but compared to the Cannons, its much more fragile and vulnerable to return fire.

My main army ideology is that everything either needs to be tough, or fast, or a combination.

So, any thoughts? Suggestions? I'm open to most, as I said I don't really want to change any units completely from the 1500 list, but tweaks and model number drops/adds are more than cool. And any idea on how to fill that last 250 points I'm open to. Thanks in advance.

I'm no expert, but I think you're on the right track by considering one, or two boss units to add. That way your play style can stay the same. I think you should also consider adding some more "objective secured" in the form of a Wave serpant or two, with Avengers inside. It is a tried and true stratagem.

Thanks for all the replies and discussion guys, its been great and helpful.

As to Wraithlord Vs Falcon. I like the falcon quite a lot actually, but the main reason I've sided with the lord is that while more expensive he can simply do more. They both put out a comparable amount of shots (2x str8 lance vs 3x str8 1 lance) and are about as hardy with t8/3w and av12/3hp but the lord also comes with 2xflamers and the ability to mess things up in CC. So while I will swap in the falcon occasionally I think the lord tends to be the stronger choice here.

Hawks: I love them, and they almost always have a use. I might play with dropping a few (down to 6) and regardless I'd like to get a few more spiders. But for their points, the ability to accurately deepstrike, drop the ignores cover blast, then shoot up a unit. They're just plain useful.

So as to the suggestions, I think I've narrowed it down to a few choices. Let me know which you prefer. Again I'm not really looking to just double down on more serpents.

Option A: 3x Vauls Wrath Batteries - D-cannons - 200 With a warlock. Pros: Strong unit busting damage, very hard to shift, board control, extra psydice. Cons: Static and only 24 inch range.

B: Crimson Hunter Exarch - 180 Pros: Hard hitting, maneuverable, destroy other flyers with impunity. Cons: Paper armor, less reliable deployment (reserves), weak to skyfire/interceptor.

C: 3x Warwalkers - 210 Pros: Will annihilate what they shoot at, considering either 2x bright lances and switching my wraithknight to a suncannon, or 2xStr6 stuff to destroy infantry/hpstrip. Cons: Even with the save they're paper and will be destroyed in return.

D: 3x Vypers - 180 All the pros and cons of warwalkers exacerbated, very killy, very fast, will die to just about anything.

These seem to be the most solid ideas/units I've heard so far, I think I'm still leaning towards A or C. Let me know what y'all think. Thanks again.

ragazzacane wrote:
I disagree about hawks, they are alright against infantry and vehicles. their no scatter DS allows for point taking but then again the spiders will get to move 3 D6 after landing. Short of T3 low armour like guard, orks or nids, they simply don't do the job for me. I have never had a unit of hawks survive contact. Where as the 3+ on the spiders keeps them in the game.

I agree that niether choice of heavy would be strongest. As for the Double scatter laser, why would you give up 3 twin linked Rending shots for one extra non twin linked NO AP shot?

Because of 36", that's why. My 210 point War Walkers survive all game all the time and kill three or four times their points (if there's a flyer coming in, I'll make sure they arrive after, because flyers and certain long-range Tau and IG artillery are the only ones that can reach them after battle-focusing behind terrain). For 30 points less, I get 24", arrive, unload and die. That's not my playstyle, but if it works for you, awesome!

Hawks aren't meant to survive contact, they're meant to be as annoying as possible, killing a few models here and there, blinding stuff, making a mess of a gunline with no fear of reprisal. Not to mention that sweet, sweet AP4 Ignores Cover Large Blast they get. That right there is death to Necron Warriors, Dire Avengers (Guardians), Rangers, Pathfinders, you name it. Again, they always kill a lot more than they're worth. Again, it's a playstyle preference, if you're going for tabling, sure, taking Spiders is a no-brainer. But tabling usually happens against lesser skilled players (unless there's a huge power-difference between your armies). No good player will let you table him.


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Colgado wrote:
C: 3x Warwalkers - 210 Pros: Will annihilate what they shoot at, considering either 2x bright lances and switching my wraithknight to a suncannon, or 2xStr6 stuff to destroy infantry/hpstrip. Cons: Even with the save they're paper and will be destroyed in return.

Not necessarily. I've seen people misuse their expensive 200-point WW squad all too often. If you can't find a good position for them when they come in, play safe and keep them out of the way. 2 or 3 turns of shooting mid-game is still more important than wasting 200 points in T2 by being aggresive with them. If you're looking for a more aggresive loudout, 6x Shuriken Cannons aren't bad, but then they WILL die in return (24" vs 36" range is a massive difference on the tabletop).

Also I just thought of the possibility of another wraithlord (scatter/star) and then beefing the spider squad to 10. Just a thought.