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Made in us
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot





Greenville

I've often wondered why attack dogs don't show up. It'd make perfect sense for the IG to have a snowball's chance in hell in h2h for once, and a weaker version of what I'm assuming would be Fenrisian Wolves would work fairly well IMHO. Sorry if this has been beaten to death already.

Fast Attack
Imperial Attack Dog -6pts/model
WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   Ld   Sv
  4      -     3   3    1    4   1    *      -

Squad: 2-10 Imperial Attack Dogs. While they take up a FA slot, they do not move independently. Attack Dogs will be joined to any Imperial Guard squad, and will have their Ld characteristics.

Weapons: Teeth. IADs count as having frag grenades.

Upgrades:
Flak Armor:
    Attack Dogs train with particular soldiers, and grow attachments to them, as their masters do in return. Many become so attached that they use their own funds to fashion a homemade flak jacket for their companions. IADs may receive a 6+ Armor save at the cost of 1pt per model.

Special Rules:
Fleet:
    All Attack dogs have fleet of foot, but may only use it when released from their parent squad.

Counterattack:
    IADs will defend their masters to the end, and will fight viciously if their masters are attacked. All IADs benefit from the counterattack universal special rule at no extra points cost.

Release the Hounds:
    See Codex: Tau under Kroot Hounds entry for details (I'm not at home, and thus don't have the codex).

Notes:
- IADs will be removed from the board if their parent unit is wiped out before they can detach.

- IADs are not scoring units, and do not count toward a squad's overall casualty level.

- IADs have a sweeping advance benefit of 3D6, rather than the typical 2D6

******

Enjoy.
CK

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person, who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stuart Mill

Black Templars (8000), Imperial Guard (3000), Sanguinary Host (2000), Tau Empire (1850), Bloodaxes (3000) 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




NJ

I did have a need to use some K-9 in my IG army. They represent my surveyors. Instead of modelling the scanner on my boys, I added a Mordhiem warhound to the unit. It's based separately, but does nothing other than follow the surveyor rules. The model complements the rule incredibly well. Other than that, I don't think there's much need for additional rules.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




My rough riders are represented by a pack of dogs and a packmaster.

-Legacy40k

   
Made in gb
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun






I'd prefer to see them a little weaker: they are just dogs, after all! As a basic rule, I'd want 15 of them to take down 10 guardsmen ? however vicious a rottweiler is, it's not going to do much good against a space marine.

How about WS3 (but preferred enemy while their handler is alive) T2, fleet, counterattack and small targets?

I'd like to see them as a doctrine choice ? perhaps 3?5 added to infantry squads for +4pts each?

Don't like the flak armour idea ? and dogs counting as having grenades is silly, too. It just smacks of making them more effective than they should be rather than dropping the points values.

As another thought, they might be better suited as an upgrade to squads? +4pts to give the squad enhanced senses while 'Fidelis' is alive.

   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot





Greenville

I like the ideas. I guess you're right about the Toughness being too high. small targets, however, is something more reserved for models as small as rippers. since a dog is a fair big larger, maybe it should be dropped.

The dogs having frags is supposed to represent their quickness and agility, and to negate the fact that their prey might be in cover. Maybe the following statline would work better:

Imperial Attack Dog
WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   Ld   Sv
  3      -      3   2    1    4   1    -      -

Weapons: Sharp Teeth, Enhanced Senses

A squad of IG may be upgraded with IADs (up to 5) at +4pts. per dog.

CK

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person, who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stuart Mill

Black Templars (8000), Imperial Guard (3000), Sanguinary Host (2000), Tau Empire (1850), Bloodaxes (3000) 
   
Made in se
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Swerike

I really think the dog should be used more for its tracking abilities then for combat. Both the Acute Senses and the Auspex/Surveyor rules fit really well for what the real use would be.

I think keeping them at a max 1 per squad and only allow Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon Squads to use them would be a good idea. Also you should bump its attacks to 2, letting it be on par with a regular guadrsman with 2 close combat weapons. Points would be 6-8.

I've also just realized that this is more of a tracker. Maybe make an attack dog unit with just dogs in it that was injected with some kind of stimm before the battle? They could have fleet/Cavalry, counter-attack, furious charge.

With the galaxy as large as it is the odds of the average guardsmen seeing and fighting a marine or MEQ are relatively slim. Unfortunately the guardsmen in your (and anyone else who plays IG's) army are the REALLY, REALLY LUCKY ones that fight marines ALL the time... 
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot





Greenville

It seems as though the consensus is that attack dogs should be geared more towards the hunter/tracker type of unit. Maybe this revision will help with that.

Imperial Attack Dog (6pts)

WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   Ld   Sv
  3      -      3   2    1    4   2     -     -

Weapons - Teeth

Abilities - Counterattack, Enhanced Senses, Sentry (counts as having an Auspex, able to be given as an upgrade to sentry units)

Squad - Attack dogs may be taken as an upgrade to Imperial Infantry Platoons, with a maximum of 2 per squad. They must be allocated to a Guardsman that has no special or heavy weapons, or is the designated ammunition carrier. This Guardsman represents the dog's caretaker. The caretaker is the soldier that has trained with the dog, and therefore has developed a mutual attachment to the dog and vice versa. As long as the caretaker is alive, the attack dog counts as being fearless in cc, which only is helpful due to the fact that they will keep the rest of the unit from falling back. When the caretaker is killed, the dog reverts to Ld -, and simply counts as a non-scoring, permanently attached unit (like gun drones in a FW squadron).

Upgrades:
Endurance Stimms - The attack dog benefits from a +1 Toughness modifier, due to the incredibly potent chemicals designed to increase tolerance to pain and to increase blood flow, thereby upping endurange. The cost is 3pts. per dog, and may only be taken once.

Adrenal Stimms - The attack dog has been injected with an unhealthy amount of adrenaline and adrenal-stimulating chemicals, sending the dog into a berserker rage. Adrenal-Stimmed dogs benefit from a +1WS modifier, and also benefit from the "Furious Charge" Universal Special Rule. This upgrade costs 3pts. per dog, and may also only be taken once.

Special Rules:
Combat Drugs - Attack dogs with both Endurance and Adrenal Stimms are in an unhealthy state, and any major combat could be potentially damaging to their systems. When ES and AS are both given to a dog, the following "Combat Drugs" rule applies:
    At the end of each round of close-combat the dog is in, roll 2D6. On the roll of a 2 or 12, the dog suffers internal injuries from the drugs, and suffers a single wound, no saves allowed (it has no armor save anyway).
* * * * * * *


Thoughts, suggestions?
CK

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person, who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stuart Mill

Black Templars (8000), Imperial Guard (3000), Sanguinary Host (2000), Tau Empire (1850), Bloodaxes (3000) 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Dives with Horses

I don't even play IG and I LOVE the idea, although I would just steal the kroot hound listing and make them IG attack dogs.

Drano doesn't exactly scream "toy" to me.

engine

 
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot





Greenville

Strength 4 dogs are a little much though. making them an upgrade with their own stats, like...[ohcrapiforgotthename] the little flying skull things for a Librarian.

CK

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person, who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stuart Mill

Black Templars (8000), Imperial Guard (3000), Sanguinary Host (2000), Tau Empire (1850), Bloodaxes (3000) 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Dives with Horses

I would call a 200lb rotweiler (sp?) a S4 attack.

Drano doesn't exactly scream "toy" to me.

engine

 
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot





Greenville

a 200lb rottweiller is not as strong as a 7ft tall, 300lb, genetically modified psycopath space marine (not as weak as a guardsman though, so I gave it strength 3 and WS 4.

CK

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person, who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stuart Mill

Black Templars (8000), Imperial Guard (3000), Sanguinary Host (2000), Tau Empire (1850), Bloodaxes (3000) 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




I use Necromunda cyber mastifs as rough riders in my guard army.

-Legacy40k

   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Looking at your revision the fearless thing is bit silly. Why would the guardsmen hang around just because their dog wants to?

Sarge: "Fall back men"
Guardsman: "We can't sir, Rover is still in there"
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot





Greenville

The dog is fearless, not the guardsmen. I guess that should be fixed to explain that.

CK

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person, who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stuart Mill

Black Templars (8000), Imperial Guard (3000), Sanguinary Host (2000), Tau Empire (1850), Bloodaxes (3000) 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




But you said that as long as the handler is alive the dog is fearless which makes the squad fearless. A better rule would be that if the squad falls back the dog is killed but the guardsmen automatically escape. This represents the dog covering the retreat of its masters.
   
 
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