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Or put 3 weirdboys in there. Might be a bit cheesy but d6 mortal wounds ain't no joke.

MW are still a weakness knights have so really i see it being a good idea especially surrounded by boyz. keep him close to painboy too for brain healing.

The answer to any ork problem is more power klawz.

I've kinda lost faith in power klaws lately :/ ...my Nobz always miss with the bloody things...and banner nobz are such an expensive addition...

Why not Tankbustas? Knights are Vehicles, correct?

Anvildude wrote:
Why not Tankbustas? Knights are Vehicles, correct?

Tank Bustaz getting near a Knight would be the issue. Transports are easy enough to pick off, and ANY strategy that solely relies on a Psychic Power like Da Jump going off isn't a very reliable one IMO.

And while I don't like to MathHammer exclusively, 15 tank Bustaz might net 5 hits. 3 wounds.

 ZoBo wrote:
so...for an anti-knight ork list, could extreme MSU-spam do the trick? seeing as they only have so many guns to unload...

I don't think the overkill on MSU outweighs the benefits of having mobs of 30 (ld and +1 attack). A healthy mixture is probably the way to go, with half the boyz in big units and the other in units of 10.


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Anvildude wrote:
Why not Tankbustas? Knights are Vehicles, correct?

They don't do enough damage to actually take down a knight (about 6 per unit of 15), and the knight army can just kill 3x15 tank bustas turn 1 unless they are hiding in bastions/battlewagons.
Hiding in bastions/battlewagons means that you lose those turn one and some of the tank bustas. By turn 2 you are left with about 600-700 points to fight and entire 2000 points of knights.

Anvildude wrote:
Why not Tankbustas? Knights are Vehicles, correct?

10 Tankbustas in A Trukk nets you 5 hits, and about 3 unsaved damage, you would need 3 max units of 15 to even down the Knight, and if you have 3 units of 15 you need 3 battlewagons minimum to transport them...which means 3 easy targets to explode turn 1 and then pick off Tank Bustas with other units. Orkz have NO reliable way to kill a Knight.

If you are absolutely rich as hell and have the time to paint them up, A decent case can be made for 18 Kustom Mega Kannons in 3 batteries of 6, that nets you on average 31-32 S8 hits a turn...it also nets you 10 Mortal wounds on yourself but still

But 31 hits = 15 wounds against T8 and with -3 AP they will be doing some decent damage, the problem is they will die easy

How many wounds are needed to down a knight? I am thinking kannons and even Smasha Guns will help. (I know they are not everyone's favorite Mek gun.) D6 damage getting through will stack up. But again we do not have a one tool option.
Even with the shooting I would expect to have to charge it to finish it off. Which is another issue with fighting a knight. it's tough and going to take a lot of resources to kill. so you have to try to hit it with everything until it's dead then move on to the next one. which will take twice as long to kill as we start running out of units to fight it with. Can a Stompa kill one of these knights? I think it does a flat 6 damage in combat. (or at least finish it off?) really want a points drop on that Stompa...

What about a combination of Da Jump and two-grot Kannon crews to camp objectives, abandon the Kannons? minimum squads of grots as screens too. Use storm boyz or kommandos to provide screen for the crews

The answer to the biggest threat might be the smallest unit.

Keep in mind that knights have a 5++ save and stratagem to improve that to 4++ save when you pile on. The math looks a lot worse for both tank bustas and KMK when you keep in mind.


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 warhead01 wrote:
How many wounds are needed to down a knight? I am thinking kannons and even Smasha Guns will help. (I know they are not everyone's favorite Mek gun.) D6 damage getting through will stack up. But again we do not have a one tool option.

Keep in mind that you need to roll 8+ with 2d6 to wound with a smasha. Kannons might work though, they are only slightly less efficient at shooting than tank bustas, but help with the MSU game.

Note that the rule of 3 counts KMK and smashas as the same unit, so you might as well go full KMK.

Even with the shooting I would expect to have to charge it to finish it off. Which is another issue with fighting a knight. it's tough and going to take a lot of resources to kill. so you have to try to hit it with everything until it's dead then move on to the next one. which will take twice as long to kill as we start running out of units to fight it with. Can a Stompa kill one of these knights? I think it does a flat 6 damage in combat. (or at least finish it off?) really want a points drop on that Stompa...

You can expect to get about 2 attacks to deal damage with the stompa, assuming it has not degraded yet. Once it's below 20 wounds, don't expect it to do anything at all. A grokanaut does almost the same damage in combat against a knights as the stompa, so just bring 3 grokanauts instead of one stompa.

I think your right there. 3 Gorkanauts would be harder to kill in one go than a single Stompa. I know the Smasha guns aren't as good. lol. I just like them and have shredded vehicles with them usually rolling better than a 7. That -4 is beastly.
Hell, we need that SAG to roll 6,6, roll 6 shots hit 6 times, use Dakka Dakka, hit 6 more times then just roll 3's on all the D3's... that's about do it. A once in a life time play. lol drop 36 mortal wound in.

 warhead01 wrote:
I think your right there. 3 Gorkanauts would be harder to kill in one go than a single Stompa. I know the Smasha guns aren't as good. lol. I just like them and have shredded vehicles with them usually rolling better than a 7. That -4 is beastly.
Hell, we need that SAG to roll 6,6, roll 6 shots hit 6 times, use Dakka Dakka, hit 6 more times then just roll 3's on all the D3's... that's about do it. A once in a life time play. lol drop 36 mortal wound in.

Could you imagine that sequence of rolls, not even with Dakkadakka

Roll 2d6 and get two 6 6
"Looks like it's gonna sting!"
Roll a 6 for shots
"Wow out for blood!" Said sarcastically
Roll six dice, all results 5 or 6, chuckling in your words you state
"Damn he even had time to aim. Well they all automatically do d3 wounds soo.."
You scoop up the dice and roll all six again, only for all six to be 5's and 6's again. Somewhere in a manic state of confusion and excitement you state
"Well I guess that Drop Pod and everything underneath of it is gone. How many wounds did it have left?"
"Four, you certainly got him." Your opponent chuckles as he scoops up his Drop Pod.

It would be just my luck too. Shooting a half dead vehicle I could have easily killed and now it's foiled my brilliant plan. I needed it alive to get my big charge. Cost me the game...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but... One Knight is generally about a third of the enemy force, right? So why is it such a bad idea to dedicate 1/4 or 1/3 of our force to dealing with it?

Or am I severely overestimating the cost of a Knight for empirium stooges?

Anvildude wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but... One Knight is generally about a third of the enemy force, right? So why is it such a bad idea to dedicate 1/4 or 1/3 of our force to dealing with it?

Or am I severely overestimating the cost of a Knight for empirium stooges?

600 points of orks barely scratches a knight.

At range, 1200 points of orks barely scratches a knight.

Currently, our.best answer to a knight army is an infinite amount of grots. And higher floors of ruins.

Anvildude wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but... One Knight is generally about a third of the enemy force, right? So why is it such a bad idea to dedicate 1/4 or 1/3 of our force to dealing with it?

Or am I severely overestimating the cost of a Knight for empirium stooges?

I guess I would ask why would I not dedicate all of my resources to destroying it as quickly as possible. It's going to have it's way with my units and the more it does that the less chance I have to stop it.
It's going to remove my combat units, clean me off objectives and cripple my army. If it goes on too long then by the time I have dealt with it I wont have enough left to deal with the rest of the opponents army.
And, it is very likely I will be going second. Giving the other side the better part of two turns to leverage against my army.
But that's just how I see it.

First they screen me so Da Jump is not a good idea if possible. Second the knight move up to my closest large unit while shooting and possibly deleting the next closest large unit charges holds me up for two combats, leaves combat unless I get lucky and can trap it in combat. Shoots and charges again. That's just one knight. the support clears my objective holders and takes objectives while trying to maintain a screen.
The next turn or two is a repeat of the first but maybe I start to get lucky, maybe I kill the knight. it explodes. More of my models die. The other player bats cleanup. game over turn 3 or 4. Imperial victory.
Maybe that's being pessimistic. I do think that could be beaten but it will take maybe 10 games to sort it out. Even still the other list is likely to adapt to stay ahead of my own. And that's just between friends.

The way I would charge it is throw something durable in like a wagon, overwatch complete wagon in. Then throw some tooled out combat units. Meka dread with two klaws and something else strong and choppy. and another unit of some kind if theirs room. Go first with my most killy unit. expect to be interrupted loose a unit. keep fighting.
Try to ensure the knight has takes damage so you can push it to lower levels of effectiveness prior to the charges. (We probably put on some damage with ranged but hard to say how much.)
Expect a counter charge to save the knight if things go on too long.
Just how I look at it.

Also against knights: meganobz with killsaws. 4 attacks each with s10 and -4ap does 0-8dmg per dude. Just take some trukks to get them there. I mix 5 tankbustas+squig with 3 meganobz in a trukk for vehicle murderfest (unless it gets surrounded, then gg)

Best I have is bomb squiggs in a wagon. Unfotunately 5 squiggs, 15 tankbustas and the wagon are 436 points and very likley won't even survive to shoot once. If they do, they will hit the knight and get a few wounds on it, then die.

I won vs a three knight list at the last round of the 1500 pt tournament for the gw cafe apology con about a month ago. He had two dakka knights and one with a sword. Ended up tabling him but i had more objectives and he only had one knight left turn 5. Had about 60 boyz ghaz kff mek 3 rokkit buggies 4 kmks a gorkanaught and a weirdboy. Used the boyz to absorb the first ones charge and gorkanaught tore it to piece in the following turn in cc. After that it was just chasing the other knights around with nobz pk and ghaz will plinking it with kmks and rokkit buggies. Mek guns crew spread out to claim objs.

Related to fighting knights with a gorkanaut, is there a general rule of thumb you guys follow for determining which attack profile to use for a Naught in CC? Im thinking mostly vs TMCs im not sure which profile to use since theyre mostly only T6/7

 Billagio wrote:
Related to fighting knights with a gorkanaut, is there a general rule of thumb you guys follow for determining which attack profile to use for a Naught in CC? Im thinking mostly vs TMCs im not sure which profile to use since theyre mostly only T6/7

This is how I do it.

Is the model T7 or less?
- Yes: Go for the more hits profile. Wounding on 3's and a reliable 2 damage is fantastic against T6/7.

Is the model T8?
- Yes: Does it have a 4++ or better?
---- Yes: Go for the more hits profile. The 4++ negates the advantage of the -4 AP and wounding on 2's.
---- No: Go for the higher strength profile. Wounding on 2's is fantastic for anything that doesn't have a way to tank the d6 damage.

Do you just want to be able to say "I wound your knight/land raider/monstrous creature on a 2+"?
- Yes: Show that git dat orks iz da best.
- No: Yer a git.

Of course, this is my rule of thumb only based on crude mathhammering. The situation could call for different options, but it's a good go-to I use.

Reminds me of when I charged my Morkonaut at a daemon prince. The kff didnt do squat all game cuz daemons dont have shooting, but that didn't stop it from squishing something in melee.

Yeah I also run a gorkanaut and face an admech/knight player and the gorkanaut can pretty dependably take a big chunk out of a knight and sometimes kill it outright. 6 attacks nets 4 hits, most likely 4 wounds for an average of 14 damage, but i would definitely try and spend a command point for an extra hit or a damage re-roll to get that to swing higher. I try and pick a knight to soften up with tankbustas or something and then charge the gorkanaut in after to finish it off. If the opposing knight is not a gallant the naught typically lives through the fight too. You just have to be very careful about positioning; you need to get the charge and you need to not get shot up before you do it, which can be hard, but if the opponent is an all knight army this can be easier because you can drop your gorkanaut after he's put down all his knights and shown his hand.

what about taking 6 man units of tank bustas and hide them in the gorkanaut. so they can be protected then jump out and shoot before he charges

Or even better, 5 TBs and a squig.

5 TB and 1 squig in each of the 3 gorks, follow it up with a storm of boyz buffed to the tits.

I haven't had any luck with the dorkanauts. They need a rework they will not get. Jumping TBs, Weird Boyz with Tide and KMKs. I don't know of anything else that stands a chance.

Gang, the more games I play, the less I am impressed with kustom force fields and pain boys. I take the kff mek in my walker lists because its important to have an invul save to soak high damage anti tank weapons, but on normal boyz I rarely feel happy I took them. Its very annoying to keep mobs inside the bubble, especially on boards with lots of terrain (best way to play imo). As my boys run up and get different run distances its difficult to keep the bubble together and pretty soon it breaks up as the boyz charge ahead or disperse to grab objectives. Pain boys are the same issues but magnified due to worse reach and worse durability increase. A kff mek needs to save 13 boyz to make up its points, but I don't think I've ever really had on do that, and honestly I'd rather just bring 13 more boys who actually add offensive output while not giving me the headache of trying to play around the Damn bubble. The same goes for the painboy, is rather have 8 or 9 more boys. Dont even get me started on banner nobs. Waste of time, way too expensive, ill take a weirdboy with warpath over this git every time.

Is anyone else feeling this way or should I just hang my head and go sit with the mad boyz?