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 Galef wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
It doesn't matter if "we all know it's wrong"- Which we don't, by the way. Until an FAQ is relased, they are 65 points, end of discussion.

Good luck explaining why an already powerful unit got an increase in stats AND points in it's first release, only to have that new points cost ignored 2 weeks later in an OBVIOUS oversight.
And it is obvious given to copy=paste nature of the points line (which still has the "3" for models per unit, not 1-3 like the new datasheet)
Further evidence is with Shadowspear only including 2 Oblits, not 3. If the points are 100% 65ppm as you claim, the minimum units size also must be 3 as above, so GW doesn't even sell the minimum unit size in 1 box.

This is obviously a new situation that must have some logic applied, rather that parroting: Current Codex is correct! over and over

-

That's great, and when the FAQ makes a change, I will then adapt accordingly. Until then, I will play the RAW, just like everyone else!

So let me get this straight.

GW updated the new Codex, except the points for Obliterators.

And we just know that's what they did, without any word at all that there's been a mistake from GW? We're just assuming, right?

Seems a bit odd they would miss that, but whatever- I'd rather get the official word on it than bicker with some screecher over a single unit.

I mean the point cost could be wrong because of shadowspear, but it could also be that shadowspear was finished and boxed, before the codex was written and packed, and some point between production on the two that they decided they over costed them.

I recall that we have had rules change between box set release and codex release before, I believe it happened with both Genestealer cults and deathwatch back in 7th.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
So let me get this straight.

GW updated the new Codex, except the points for Obliterators.

And we just know that's what they did, without any word at all that there's been a mistake from GW? We're just assuming, right?

Seems a bit odd they would miss that, but whatever- I'd rather get the official word on it than bicker with some screecher over a single unit.

The reason this is considered a mistake is that it contradicts the data sheet. The sheet says 1 Oblit, with the option to add 1 or 2 more. This is a squad size of 1-3.

The Shadowspear points costs say unit size is 1-3 at 115 points per.

The Codex v2 says unit size of 3 at 65 ppm.

The data sheets are identical, so it's pretty clear that the points costs here aren't correct, specifically because of the contradicting information between the data sheet and the points list.

But this means that you should be playing 3 per squad if you want to run them at 65 per. That's not hard since there's really a huge incentive to run 9 at this point cost. Those with big collections totally can, but someone who just picked up one box of Shadowspear technically can't even play their new unit, right?

And that's really the biggest question I have: wouldn't there be an issue if you try and play a unit of 2, or two single Oblits considering the points list clearly says the unit must be 3 strong?

If that's the case, then that seems to me as a much much bigger issue than the power gamer trying to win with all the cheese they can.

 Kirasu wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well if it's not mistake poor chaos players who believed you don't need chaos codex 2.0 like GW claimed and just have old+vigilus. They are stuck with 115 pts oblits while basically autolosing to 9 65 pts oblis on opposing side.

Yes. The players useing a OOP verstion of the book.

That's not correct. GWs official statement is to use old codex + vigilus OR new codex. The 115 pts for oblits only appear in the shadowspear boxset, which is not either of those books.

Its obviously a typo, but GW makes an incredible amount of errors. If GW says to use codex + Vigilus as the official documents for CSM, why is a player wrong for using those?

Again, to repeat, the updated points for oblits are NOT in Vigilus Ablaze.

You can no longer buy the original book.... Only the V2 one. The original CSM book is factually Out of Print. It's a Awkward statement to say something out of print is more valid then the new book.

I fully expect the obliterator point cost to get FAQ'd, the same way I expect Fallen Sorcerer's in Imperial armies being able to summon chaos demons was also a mistake. Both these things were most likely mistakes, but doesn't mean GW couldn't surprise us. For we all know GW could come out tomorrow and say the shadowspear pamphlet was the mistake. This is really just up to gaming groups and TO's to decide until GW fixes their mistakes.

This is just the age old issue of RAW vs. RAI shenanigans we've all seen before.

Can we take this discussion elsewhere now please? Try and keep this thread for any new News and Rumours.

 ingtaer wrote:

Can we take this discussion elsewhere now please? Try and keep this thread for any new News and Rumours.

Agreed. Y'all can beat that dead horse somewhere else.

As is, the last bits that we need are the Dark Apostle and Master of Executions.

I see the Dark Apostle as being really important and thematically awesome, but the Master of Executions seems to have come out of nowhere and... I dunno, I'm not impressed by the model or his rules.

drbored wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:

Can we take this discussion elsewhere now please? Try and keep this thread for any new News and Rumours.

Agreed. Y'all can beat that dead horse somewhere else.

As is, the last bits that we need are the Dark Apostle and Master of Executions.

I see the Dark Apostle as being really important and thematically awesome, but the Master of Executions seems to have come out of nowhere and... I dunno, I'm not impressed by the model or his rules.

The model looks like great converstion fodder for Exalted champs and Chaos Lords to me at least.

I'm hoping there are some alternate heads for the MoE and DA. Otherwise, I at least hope those heads can be easily swapped.

drbored wrote:

[...]but the Master of Executions seems to have come out of nowhere and... I dunno, I'm not impressed by the model or his rules.

He's a cheap HQ and he hit's quite hard.
As far as heroic interventions go, he's not half-bad.

His main issue is that he's added to an army that doesn't really need him.
As for the model itself, to each his own I suppose, but I don't really like him either.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
I'm hoping there are some alternate heads for the MoE and DA. Otherwise, I at least hope those heads can be easily swapped.

There's at least one alternate head for the MoE, but the Dark Apostle likely doesn't have an alternate head. That said, there's butt-tons of heads in all the new kits that would look great on him.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
I'm hoping there are some alternate heads for the MoE and DA. Otherwise, I at least hope those heads can be easily swapped.

The MoE has two different head options. Unfortunately, they are, IMO, both awful.

MoE actually looks like a great opportunity to include some of the many, many cool AoS chaos champions, slaughterpriests, deathbringers or whatever the various flavours are called.

I know many people would not like to see 40k lean towards the over the top fantasy style, but then again, lots of people already like to use AoS chaos for their CSM.
The more primal look of the actual models gear and waepon should make the connection to fantasy models open.

 Redemption wrote:
Noticed this WHTV schedule. Curious what the campaign update is.

Yeah, discussing this instead is better.

I’m gonna assume it’s perhaps info on where the campaign goes from here.
Or on the next one. As they said they have several planned all featuring various factions etc.

I wonder how much they're planning on charging for Obsidius Mallex as a stand alone model? While being push fit, he does have some capacity for conversions if anyone wanted to take a knife to him.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
I wonder how much they're planning on charging for Obsidius Mallex as a stand alone model? While being push fit, he does have some capacity for conversions if anyone wanted to take a knife to him.

Your average HQ price likely but maybee more due to him beeing "special"

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
I wonder how much they're planning on charging for Obsidius Mallex as a stand alone model? While being push fit, he does have some capacity for conversions if anyone wanted to take a knife to him.

Your average HQ price likely but maybee more due to him beeing "special"

I hate it already, I'm hoping he's not too bad considering he's pushfit.

Mind you just an educated guess.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
I wonder how much they're planning on charging for Obsidius Mallex as a stand alone model? While being push fit, he does have some capacity for conversions if anyone wanted to take a knife to him.

Dark apostle is £22.50
Master of executions is £15
Chaos lord is also £15

And no sign of what we assumed was a Sorcerer.

Maybe waiting for the inevitable Emperor's Children release to give us a plastic Sorc?

Or the Sorcerer is for a future Blackstone Fortress expansion or some other board game.

I received my Abaddon yesterday, and I must say that I am very, very impressed with it. Serious piece of engineering, and a very lovely model.

The obliterator “mistake” is in the updated enhanced edition too, annoyingly. I though it might help clear things up but it doesn’t.

I thought the update would include all the Vigilus Ablaze stuff but it doesn’t. The new black legion and renegade stuff isn’t in there - just the datasheets. As such I can’t imagine why anyone would buy the update rather than VA. luckily for me it’s a free download for people with the electronic version.

 Albertorius wrote:
I received my Abaddon yesterday, and I must say that I am very, very impressed with it. Serious piece of engineering, and a very lovely model.

I can't remember if I posted it in this thread or not, but...

When you build Abaddon, if you want him to have the cape? Build the side with Drachnyen all the way up even if you are leaving the cape off for painting and DO NOT GLUE THE TROPHY RACK TO ABADDON. The cape has an attachment point on the trophy rack that makes it extremely difficult to refit it if the trophy rack is on and you've attached both shoulderpads to the cape.

Leaving the trophy rack, shoulderpads, and cape as one component for painting is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge timesaver and all of them can be pressurefitted to Abaddon when you're priming.

Is there a reason they've more or less dropped the red&gold color scheme for CSMs, and decalsheets not having Khorne symbols on them?

The red/gold scheme was for the Crimson Slaughter, who have rules in the codex (despite being wiped out to seven or so marines.)

That scheme came out with Dark Vengeance, and since some new marines also came out at the time, a lot of the range was painted that way. Since it's the Black Legion in the spotlight and in the starter set, they're back to black. You can still see the scheme in a few of the models on the website, but they're mistakenly placed next to a Word Bearer's symbol. (Despite word bearers being red and silver, not red and gold)


That's not Word Bearers, GW!

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
I received my Abaddon yesterday, and I must say that I am very, very impressed with it. Serious piece of engineering, and a very lovely model.

I can't remember if I posted it in this thread or not, but...

When you build Abaddon, if you want him to have the cape? Build the side with Drachnyen all the way up even if you are leaving the cape off for painting and DO NOT GLUE THE TROPHY RACK TO ABADDON. The cape has an attachment point on the trophy rack that makes it extremely difficult to refit it if the trophy rack is on and you've attached both shoulderpads to the cape.

Leaving the trophy rack, shoulderpads, and cape as one component for painting is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge timesaver and all of them can be pressurefitted to Abaddon when you're priming.

Hmmm, had no such problems myself. I glued the trophy rack on to the main model but did leave the cape seperate. The only piece of the cape I did not join up when painting it seperate was the tiny end piece that attaches to the shoulder piece. Totally agree on painting the cape seperately though, I also initially left him off the base, am happy with my effort.

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
I received my Abaddon yesterday, and I must say that I am very, very impressed with it. Serious piece of engineering, and a very lovely model.

I can't remember if I posted it in this thread or not, but...

When you build Abaddon, if you want him to have the cape? Build the side with Drachnyen all the way up even if you are leaving the cape off for painting and DO NOT GLUE THE TROPHY RACK TO ABADDON. The cape has an attachment point on the trophy rack that makes it extremely difficult to refit it if the trophy rack is on and you've attached both shoulderpads to the cape.

Leaving the trophy rack, shoulderpads, and cape as one component for painting is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge timesaver and all of them can be pressurefitted to Abaddon when you're priming.

Hmmm, had no such problems myself. I glued the trophy rack on to the main model but did leave the cape seperate. The only piece of the cape I did not join up when painting it seperate was the tiny end piece that attaches to the shoulder piece. Totally agree on painting the cape seperately though, I also initially left him off the base, am happy with my effort.

Spoiler:

He looks great!

Yeah, the only reason I had issues was because I'd had both shoulderpads attached to the cape. I ended up having to remove the shoulderpad that connects to the right arm from the cape which solved the fit issue without any damage.

Figured I'd just make sure I shared that insight with anyone working on an Abaddon!

 l2c wrote:
Is there a reason they've more or less dropped the red&gold color scheme for CSMs, and decalsheets not having Khorne symbols on them?

I havent noticed this. The sheets I have at least have CS, Corsairs, and the core 9. They have god decals in equal amounts.

Mandragola wrote:
The obliterator “mistake” is in the updated enhanced edition too, annoyingly. I though it might help clear things up but it doesn’t.

I thought the update would include all the Vigilus Ablaze stuff but it doesn’t. The new black legion and renegade stuff isn’t in there - just the datasheets. As such I can’t imagine why anyone would buy the update rather than VA. luckily for me it’s a free download for people with the electronic version.

It's only for new players essentially. If you have the original you won't get as much out of it.

 l2c wrote:
Is there a reason they've more or less dropped the red&gold color scheme for CSMs, and decalsheets not having Khorne symbols on them?

Well there is this one Angron guy that is supposedly stalking around...


Although the Red and Gold color scheme was for Crimson Slaugter (pretty cool background) rather then World Eaters that has exactly same colour scheme.