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So, I just saw these pictures about stomping on 3++:


(Source)

The first one is a knight stomping across LoS-blocking terrain, destroying a land-speeder, the second one is the knight stomping onto a unit not involved in the combat.

So, what's the RAW on this, assuming a 2-5 result? Undoubtedly, the stomp can hit those models, but can it allocate wounds to them? Even if they are in not involved in the combat? Even if they are not in LoS?

LOS only applies to shooting. It isnt a shooting attack.

You can stomp on anything enemy in range, engaged or not.

The problem i have with that picture is it is illegal placement of the stomp attacks.

You have to place the second and third stomp templates so that they touch the edge of the proceeding stomps.


So both of those situations is incorrect.

Ah I couldnt see the picture (stupid work blocking...)

Although my "range" comment is still correct - your range to place the markers is limited.

Eihnlazer wrote:
The problem i have with that picture is it is illegal placement of the stomp attacks.

You have to place the second and third stomp templates so that they touch the edge of the proceeding stomps.


So both of those situations is incorrect.

Not true, a stomp only must be within 3" of the previous stomp. Bot situations adhere to that rule.

 Jidmah wrote:

Eihnlazer wrote:
The problem i have with that picture is it is illegal placement of the stomp attacks.

You have to place the second and third stomp templates so that they touch the edge of the proceeding stomps.


So both of those situations is incorrect.

Not true, a stomp only must be within 3" of the previous stomp. Bot situations adhere to that rule.

+1

Ahh your right about the 3".

It looked so much farther on the picture to me as well that i was almost in shock lol.


Anywho, yes, stomps can hit models not in combat. The biggest restriction i have found so far is thus:

Stomps happen at initiative 1. If no models are in B2B with the Knight during initiative 1 he doesnt get to stomp, assuming he cant pile in and make it to B2B. This happens frequently againgst vehicle squadrons that he has charged.

That would make the Transcendent C'tans Seismic Shockwave a lot stronger than I thought.
You could Stomp a target that is <21" away.

Eihnlazer wrote:
The biggest restriction i have found so far is thus:

Stomps happen at initiative 1. If no models are in B2B with the Knight during initiative 1 he doesnt get to stomp, assuming he cant pile in and make it to B2B. This happens frequently againgst vehicle squadrons that he has charged.

Why do models need to be in B2B with the Knight during initiative 1?

I1 still happens even if there are no models engaged.

YOu cant stomp if you're still not engaged in combat.

If you kill the unit you're in assault with before initiative 1, no stomps for you

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
YOu cant stomp if you're still not engaged in combat.

If you kill the unit you're in assault with before initiative 1, no stomps for you

Why not, what rule prevents the stomps? I1 still happens even if all the enemy models are dead.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
YOu cant stomp if you're still not engaged in combat.

If you kill the unit you're in assault with before initiative 1, no stomps for you

Why not, what rule prevents the stomps? I1 still happens even if all the enemy models are dead.

You're not engaged in close combat anymore if the unit was destroyed before initiative 1. You can only stomp if you're engaged in close combat

 DeathReaper wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
YOu cant stomp if you're still not engaged in combat.

If you kill the unit you're in assault with before initiative 1, no stomps for you

Why not, what rule prevents the stomps? I1 still happens even if all the enemy models are dead.

"Determine Who Can Fight
After models have Piled In, any model whose Initiative is equal to the value of the
current Initiative step and who is engaged with an enemy model must fight.
A model is engaged in combat if:
• It is in base contact with one or more enemy models.
• It is within 2" horizontally and/or 6" vertically of a friendly model in base contact with
one or more enemy models in the same combat.Unengaged Models
Unengaged models cannot attack in close combat – they’re too far from the crush of
battle."

No enemy models means you aren't engaged and can't swing at I1./

 pretre wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
YOu cant stomp if you're still not engaged in combat.

If you kill the unit you're in assault with before initiative 1, no stomps for you

Why not, what rule prevents the stomps? I1 still happens even if all the enemy models are dead.

"Determine Who Can Fight
After models have Piled In, any model whose Initiative is equal to the value of the
current Initiative step and who is engaged with an enemy model must fight.
A model is engaged in combat if:
• It is in base contact with one or more enemy models.
• It is within 2" horizontally and/or 6" vertically of a friendly model in base contact with
one or more enemy models in the same combat.Unengaged Models
Unengaged models cannot attack in close combat – they’re too far from the crush of
battle."

No enemy models means you aren't engaged and can't swing at I1./

The stomp is not a CC attack, it is something that happens at I1, but you do not compare WS or roll to hit or wound like a CC attack.

I1 still happens even if the knight is no longer engaged.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:


Why not, what rule prevents the stomps? I1 still happens even if all the enemy models are dead.

You're not engaged in close combat anymore if the unit was destroyed before initiative 1. You can only stomp if you're engaged in close combat

That's nice that you have made that claim, do you have any rules to back it up?

 DeathReaper wrote:
The stomp is not a CC attack, it is something that happens at I1, but you do not compare WS or roll to hit or wound like a CC attack.

I1 still happens even if the knight is no longer engaged.

"Super-heavy Walkers engaged in combat may make a special type of attack called a Stomp
attack. The Stomp attack is made in addition to the Super-heavy Walker’s normal attacks.
Stomp attacks are resolved during the Fight sub-phase at the Initiative 1 step. This does
not grant the model an additional Pile In move at the Initiative 1 step."

DeathReaper wrote:That's nice that you have made that claim, do you have any rules to back it up?

IRONY!

You might want to put some ice on that...

Also, the assault can come to an early end, with all remaining initiative steps being lost.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:


Why not, what rule prevents the stomps? I1 still happens even if all the enemy models are dead.

You're not engaged in close combat anymore if the unit was destroyed before initiative 1. You can only stomp if you're engaged in close combat

That's nice that you have made that claim, do you have any rules to back it up?

Refer to Pretre's posts to see why you're wrong

sirlynchmob wrote:
Also, the assault can come to an early end, with all remaining initiative steps being lost.

Unless I'm missing it, that rule got changed from 6th to just "skip any I step that doesn't have any models in it" (paraphrasing). I've checked pages 48 and 52, is it somewhere else?

 Quanar wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
Also, the assault can come to an early end, with all remaining initiative steps being lost.

Unless I'm missing it, that rule got changed from 6th to just "skip any I step that doesn't have any models in it" (paraphrasing). I've checked pages 48 and 52, is it somewhere else?

"When making Pile In moves, the player whose turn it is moves his unit(s) first.
If both players’ Pile In moves combined would be insufficient to bring any combatants
back together (that’s more than 6" – very unlikely!), the assault comes to an end. All
remaining Initiative steps are lost – work out the assault result as described below."

Ah, yep! Cheers Pretre, consider my statement retracted!

 Quanar wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
Also, the assault can come to an early end, with all remaining initiative steps being lost.

Unless I'm missing it, that rule got changed from 6th to just "skip any I step that doesn't have any models in it" (paraphrasing). I've checked pages 48 and 52, is it somewhere else?

pg 48, under 'start of initiative step pile in. and that part ends up on pg 49. Right about determining who can fight.

it's conditional, but it can easly cause assaults to skip I1.

 pretre wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The stomp is not a CC attack, it is something that happens at I1, but you do not compare WS or roll to hit or wound like a CC attack.

I1 still happens even if the knight is no longer engaged.

"Super-heavy Walkers engaged in combat may make a special type of attack called a Stomp
attack. The Stomp attack is made in addition to the Super-heavy Walker’s normal attacks.
Stomp attacks are resolved during the Fight sub-phase at the Initiative 1 step. This does
not grant the model an additional Pile In move at the Initiative 1 step."

DeathReaper wrote:That's nice that you have made that claim, do you have any rules to back it up?

IRONY!

You might want to put some ice on that...

That is not what the Codex: Imperial Knight says...

"In close combat, they can make D3 Stomps at the Initiative 1 step: place a small blast marker touching the Walker, any others must be within 3" of the previous one. Each unit touched by a marker must roll on the Stomp table (below)." (Codex: Imperial Knights, Super Heavy Walkers heading).

and we all know that Codex > Rulebook when there is a conflict...

"On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex or Army List Entry always takes precedence." (General Principles chapter, Basic versus Advanced section).

So the knight does not have to be engaged to stomp. They make D3 stomps at I1

So the ice putting would be yours.

sirlynchmob wrote:


pg 48, under 'start of initiative step pile in. and that part ends up on pg 49. Right about determining who can fight.

it's conditional, but it can easly cause assaults to skip I1.

Not if you have a knight with a Stomp at I1.

Initiative 1 is skipped if there are no models. Again, check the quotes.

Also, C:IK has this exact text in the digital version:
"STOMP

Super-heavy Walkers engaged in combat may make a special type of attack called a Stomp attack. The Stomp attack is made in addition to the Super-heavy Walker’s normal attacks. Stomp attacks are resolved during the Fight sub-phase at the Initiative 1 step. This does not grant the model an additional Pile In move at the Initiative 1 step.

A Stomp attack consists of D3 Stomps. To make the first Stomp, place a blast marker so that it is touching, but not over, the Super-heavy Walker model (or the Super-heavy Walker model’s base, if it has one). Each unit that has at least one model even partially under the marker is stomped. For each unit that is stomped, roll on the Stomp table (see below) to determine what happens to it.

Each subsequent Stomp is made in the same manner as the first, except that the blast marker does not have to be placed touching the Super-heavy Walker. Instead, it must be placed so that it is at least partially within 3” of where the last blast marker was placed, and not over the Super-heavy Walker. This allows you to ‘Stomp forward’ into the enemy! Note that the Super-heavy Walker is not moved – we assume it stomps about but ends up more or less where it started.

Buildings, Flyers, Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures, Gargantuan Creatures, Flying Gargantuan Creatures, Super-heavy vehicles, Super-heavy Walkers, and Super-heavy Flyers cannot be stomped; do not roll on the Stomp table for them if they fall under the blast marker. Any other units with models under the blast marker are stomped as normal."

They're not in close combat anymore if the opposing unit is destroyed before the Ini 1 step

You dont get to do Ini 1 regardless per the rules for combat that pretre posted

Oh, you're reading the glossary, Deathreaper. Go to the actual rules section for Stomp.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's what DR is reading:

"SUPER-HEAVY WALKERS

The full rules for Super-heavy Walkers are presented earlier in this book, and are summarised below.

These are Walkers, but can move 12".

They have Fear, Hammer of Wrath, Invincible Behemoth, Move Through Cover, Relentless, Smash, Strikedown.

When shooting, they are always treated as having remained stationary, and may fire at multiple targets, but cannot fire Overwatch. They may fire Ordnance weapons and still fire other weapons freely.

If they are Transports, they can transport more than one unit at once.

They ignore all results on the vehicle damage table apart from Explodes!, which instead removes D3 Hull Points. When they run out of Hull Points, roll on the Catastrophic Damage table. Any passengers on board at the time suffer a S10 AP2 hit.

In close combat, they can make D3 Stomps at the Initiative 1 step: place a small blast marker touching the Walker, any others must be within 3" of the previous one. Each unit touched by a marker must roll on the Stomp table (below)."

It even says it is a summary and you're supposed to go to the earlier section for details.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The full rule makes it clear that they only get them if engaged. Which is what I quoted directly from the codex.

Okay, yea the glossary does not mention engaged.

but the section on stomp does, so weird.

Though if it did not say they needed to be engaged they would still be able to stomp at I1, since they dont make pile in moves at I1.

But it says they need to be engaged, so there you go.

Glad we got that one handled.