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Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




You are starving for CP? Can I presume you didn't play in 8th? We have almost 300% more CP than we did in the last edition. And Victor is practically worthless. For 2CP You can re-roll a hit roll, a wound roll, or a save roll, once per turn. These guys already reroll 1s and hit on 2s, so thats out. As for saves, if you want to spend that many CP to give a 2+4++6+++ unit a save re-roll, be my guest. As for re-rolling a wound roll, which is the only one kinda worth it, I don't want to pay 2 CP for a possible 1 on a random damage weapon. If we go to flat 3 on all our melee weapons damage, I'll put victor on each of my Vertus Captains tomorrow, but I don't see that happening any time soon. So no, I'd rather spend that 2CP on Veterans of the bloodgames for a 6+x squad of bikes for exploding 6's on hurricane bolters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/14 11:17:31


 
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
You are starving for CP? Can I presume you didn't play in 8th? We have almost 300% more CP than we did in the last edition. And Victor is practically worthless. For 2CP You can re-roll a hit roll, a wound roll, or a save roll, once per turn. These guys already reroll 1s and hit on 2s, so thats out. As for saves, if you want to spend that many CP to give a 2+4++6+++ unit a save re-roll, be my guest. As for re-rolling a wound roll, which is the only one kinda worth it, I don't want to pay 2 CP for a possible 1 on a random damage weapon. If we go to flat 3 on all our melee weapons damage, I'll put victor on each of my Vertus Captains tomorrow, but I don't see that happening any time soon. So no, I'd rather spend that 2CP on Veterans of the bloodgames for a 6+x squad of bikes for exploding 6's on hurricane bolters.


The pro stance for Victor of the Blood Games on a bike captain is mainly that defensively it offers you a free re-roll on a 3+ invuln save, which is really good and offensively it offers you a free re-roll on the dmg, since D3 in melee can be really swingy as we all know. It's not used to re roll hits or wounds because our bike captain can re-roll both innately.

But in essence I agree with you. Imo it is not as good as having 2 extra CP, which provide you with the opportunity to keep a key unit like terminators or venatari alive one extra turn with the emperors auspice or transhuman stratagem.

Edit: can't re roll dmg with VotBg, remembered that wrong, which makes it even less of an auto take.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/14 11:46:10


 
   
Made in us
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It's not a free re-roll on damage though, just the wound roll. You can't wound, roll a 1, and then pop BGs. It's JUST Wound, save, or hit roll.
   
Made in dk
Been Around the Block




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
You are starving for CP? Can I presume you didn't play in 8th? We have almost 300% more CP than we did in the last edition. And Victor is practically worthless. For 2CP You can re-roll a hit roll, a wound roll, or a save roll, once per turn. These guys already reroll 1s and hit on 2s, so thats out. As for saves, if you want to spend that many CP to give a 2+4++6+++ unit a save re-roll, be my guest. As for re-rolling a wound roll, which is the only one kinda worth it, I don't want to pay 2 CP for a possible 1 on a random damage weapon. If we go to flat 3 on all our melee weapons damage, I'll put victor on each of my Vertus Captains tomorrow, but I don't see that happening any time soon. So no, I'd rather spend that 2CP on Veterans of the bloodgames for a 6+x squad of bikes for exploding 6's on hurricane bolters.


Yeah, i didnt play in 8th. returned at start of 9th. Heard we were starving for cp back then. But now we are here : )

victor is only for saves, obviously. But that is still huge. like.. bonkers good. it makes him so much more tough. With the 3++ on him victor almost justifies not giving him the 5+++ or the +2w with means you can open up that slot or save a CP. but yeah, as said, I think its too much also.

Flat 3 is hopefully never happening for these bois. Would break the power curve completely, imo. on the other hand flat 2 might be to weak with all the -1dam in the meta. Flat 3 on the charge, maybe? and then flat 2 when not charging. idk. flat 3 always sounds completely wild to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tiberias wrote:
Scoundrel80 wrote:
hi guys, one question I am really struggling with these days during list building is CP. Ive found that tons of cp is so incredibly strong with custodes. More so than with other armies. so I do everything I can to keep builds lean. That means Trajan, strategic mastermind and always one detachment. That last one sucks. With many of my more simple build I can stack up a lot of CP but with the popular builds right now being dreadnaught heavy, its harder.

Thing is, you typically want victor on a dawn eagle captain and venerable penitent on all your dreads, right? so in most of my list at the moment thats 2cp for the galatusses, 1cp for the telemon and 2 cp for victor plus one for a cap commander trait. so I start the game at friggin 6 CP for my dreadnaught builds. I have to be able to do that better.

Is the venerable really that important on the telemon? also, do you guys always go victor on the bike captain or could it be left out? mathematically it just seems like a no brainer, imo. But It does hurt to start out on just 6 cp.

any tips?


1-2CP for eternal penitent on a galatus and/or achillus is definitely worth it imo. Their attacks are high quality enough that one extra attack can be a big deal and rerolling charges is always good.
I almost never use it on a telemon though. I just don't think it's necessary on our big chonky guy, since his main purpose imo is provide an unbelievably tough firing platform that can also melee in a pinch if necessary.

I'm really torn on Victor of the Blood Games....on one hand it's amazing at giving the already stellar survivability of our bike captain another boost, on the other hand it's 2 CP you could spend on emperors auspice or transhuman. And considering our bike captain with indomitable constitution is already ridiculously tough to remove, I find myself not taking it as often.


yeah, its such a tough call. I've done it often. but I think I might not do it for a few games.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/09/14 14:14:31


 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




You do know there are armies of bois that cost half as much as us, boast pretty much the same stats, and hit for flat 3 damage right?

3 for Bikers which cost almost 100 per model wouldn't be obscene. 3 for EVERY model would be silly.

But I don't want to get into wishlisting. This forum is for tactics, and VoTBGs is a personal preference. I feel it's not worth the cost, especially given our models are usually wounding on 3s anyway. If you give it to a Biker captain, thats a waste in my eyes. I'd much rather use that on one of our more pressing needs. Shooting twice against hordes, or denying the witch against psykers.
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
It's not a free re-roll on damage though, just the wound roll. You can't wound, roll a 1, and then pop BGs. It's JUST Wound, save, or hit roll.


you definately can re-roll your damage roll with it.

but yes its mostly for the free save re-roll. so that in theory you could re-roll 2 failed saves on multi-damage weaponry and make your bike captain obnoxiously durable.

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 Eihnlazer wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
It's not a free re-roll on damage though, just the wound roll. You can't wound, roll a 1, and then pop BGs. It's JUST Wound, save, or hit roll.


you definately can re-roll your damage roll with it.

but yes its mostly for the free save re-roll. so that in theory you could re-roll 2 failed saves on multi-damage weaponry and make your bike captain obnoxiously durable.


Sadly no re-rolls for damage. It does specify hit, wound and save only.

In theory over a game yeah it'll make back the 2CP you spent in re-rolls for wound and saves (and the occasional hit roll if you target someone with a -1 to hit)
   
Made in dk
Been Around the Block




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
You do know there are armies of bois that cost half as much as us, boast pretty much the same stats, and hit for flat 3 damage right?

3 for Bikers which cost almost 100 per model wouldn't be obscene. 3 for EVERY model would be silly.

But I don't want to get into wishlisting. This forum is for tactics, and VoTBGs is a personal preference. I feel it's not worth the cost, especially given our models are usually wounding on 3s anyway. If you give it to a Biker captain, thats a waste in my eyes. I'd much rather use that on one of our more pressing needs. Shooting twice against hordes, or denying the witch against psykers.


I know that our dudes cost more compared to other armies elites. But its hard to compare like that as the whole premise of the custodes army is that every slot can be very elite, so if all our dudes were as cost efficient as other armies top bois that would not work.

what other armies have dudes with similar stats that deal flat 3 like that? Who even deals flat 3? off the top of my head for shooting theres the admech robots, dune crawlers, dark reapers, the forge world prism rifle dudes. For melee thunder hammer termies, white scar blade guards on the doctrine.. drukhari wytches? nah.. som drukhari unit. dont recall whitch. Flat 3 its still pretty rare on infantry/bikes, id say, and on a m14 t6 4w 2+ 4++ unit that shoots either 12 s4 shots or a melta shot at you before it hits you with 4 s6 attacks with full rerolls id say flat 3 is pretty brutal. I mean, 6 vertus bikes still deletes most things, right? even with the weak d3 dam. with flat 3 they would be truly wild. Just look at shining spears with flat 2 and half the attacks.

Either way. back to tactics. Sorry for the detour.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just painted up 2x5 prosecutors and I am trying to integrate them into lists now. Yeah, I know they have been popular or ages but I just got them in and didn't want to proxy them.

So now im pondering how to use them best. Problem is that they are elite slot choices so I still have to pay my troops tax. I mean, my first thought is to have them sit on back objectives so I can free up those CG and sagittarum guys to move up the board and do damage.

on the other hand, my typical setup of 2x3 sword and board dudes on back objectives and 5x saggitarum to advance up the board works fine. The 2x3 guards can actually counter charge and be a real threat when the opponent challenges their position. prosecutors not so much. And its not like I dont have to buy those troops either way if I get the prosecutors.

seen in that perspective the 120 points for prosecutors are actually just money down the drain. I dont have a role for them per se. I can create one for them, yes, but is that really good army building?

So my next thought is to actually use them for what their data sheet offers. They shoot badly so they can do actions (sword and board dudes can often do that too, though, especially early game for stuff like banners), they can annoy enemy psykers, are somewhat mobil, can function as throw away obsec bodies and they have a few ok strats.

so maybe thats what they are; a tool of utility. If needed they can hold an objective, they can be positioned mid board to draw fire and annoy psykers, and they can ROD in a pinch or whatever. but if I want them up the board I feel I need a rhino for them maybe? and then the points start to stack..

thing is, I dont really see action based secondaries being a thing for custodes right now and to me, that is one of the things they offer.

Also, I could see them being useful in dreadnaught heavy builds as you can then go 3x3 saggitarums for firesupport up the board and obsec bodies on midfield objectives eventually. But that conflicts with the fact that both prosecutors and dreadnaught are elites! so then I probably need 2 detachments. not the end of the world but still.. not overly synergetic.

So what am I missing? why are these gals so good?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/15 08:52:41


 
   
Made in eu
Longtime Dakkanaut




Scoundrel80 wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
You do know there are armies of bois that cost half as much as us, boast pretty much the same stats, and hit for flat 3 damage right?

3 for Bikers which cost almost 100 per model wouldn't be obscene. 3 for EVERY model would be silly.

But I don't want to get into wishlisting. This forum is for tactics, and VoTBGs is a personal preference. I feel it's not worth the cost, especially given our models are usually wounding on 3s anyway. If you give it to a Biker captain, thats a waste in my eyes. I'd much rather use that on one of our more pressing needs. Shooting twice against hordes, or denying the witch against psykers.


I know that our dudes cost more compared to other armies elites. But its hard to compare like that as the whole premise of the custodes army is that every slot can be very elite, so if all our dudes were as cost efficient as other armies top bois that would not work.

what other armies have dudes with similar stats that deal flat 3 like that? Who even deals flat 3? off the top of my head for shooting theres the admech robots, dune crawlers, dark reapers, the forge world prism rifle dudes. For melee thunder hammer termies, white scar blade guards on the doctrine.. drukhari wytches? nah.. som drukhari unit. dont recall whitch. Flat 3 its still pretty rare on infantry/bikes, id say, and on a m14 t6 4w 2+ 4++ unit that shoots either 12 s4 shots or a melta shot at you before it hits you with 4 s6 attacks with full rerolls id say flat 3 is pretty brutal. I mean, 6 vertus bikes still deletes most things, right? even with the weak d3 dam. with flat 3 they would be truly wild. Just look at shining spears with flat 2 and half the attacks.

Either way. back to tactics. Sorry for the detour.


Death wing knights are some of the worst offenders here. They hit on 2+ with flat 3dmg, have 2+ save 4+ invuln, have permanent transhuman and can get -1dmg through a banner buff.....and they cost less than our terminators.

Flat 3dmg on some of our weapons would not be too strong.

-Spears should be S+2 with flat 2dmg, but also have a weaker sweep profile with extra attacks
-Axes should be flat 3 dmg
-Swords can remain at D3 dmg
-Interceptor lances should be flat 3 on the charge or D3+1 on the charge.
-Trajanns watchers axe should be flat 4 dmg

None of this would be too strong given the context of powercreep in 9th.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just painted up 2x5 prosecutors and I am trying to integrate them into lists now. Yeah, I know they have been popular or ages but I just got them in and didn't want to proxy them.

So now im pondering how to use them best. Problem is that they are elite slot choices so I still have to pay my troops tax. I mean, my first thought is to have them sit on back objectives so I can free up those CG and sagittarum guys to move up the board and do damage.

on the other hand, my typical setup of 2x3 sword and board dudes on back objectives and 5x saggitarum to advance up the board works fine. The 2x3 guards can actually counter charge and be a real threat when the opponent challenges their position. prosecutors not so much. And its not like I dont have to buy those troops either way if I get the prosecutors.

seen in that perspective the 120 points for prosecutors are actually just money down the drain. I dont have a role for them per se. I can create one for them, yes, but is that really good army building?

So my next thought is to actually use them for what their data sheet offers. They shoot badly so they can do actions (sword and board dudes can often do that too, though, especially early game for stuff like banners), they can annoy enemy psykers, are somewhat mobil, can function as throw away obsec bodies and they have a few ok strats.

so maybe thats what they are; a tool of utility. If needed they can hold an objective, they can be positioned mid board to draw fire and annoy psykers, and they can ROD in a pinch or whatever. but if I want them up the board I feel I need a rhino for them maybe? and then the points start to stack..

thing is, I dont really see action based secondaries being a thing for custodes right now and to me, that is one of the things they offer.

Also, I could see them being useful in dreadnaught heavy builds as you can then go 3x3 saggitarums for firesupport up the board and obsec bodies on midfield objectives eventually. But that conflicts with the fact that both prosecutors and dreadnaught are elites! so then I probably need 2 detachments. not the end of the world but still.. not overly synergetic.

So what am I missing? why are these gals so good?


Prosecutors are not an auto pick in my opinion. Their main advantage is that they are our cheapest bodies and they can hold backfield objectives while the rest of the custodes army can take the midfield. They have a good armor save in cover and they can shoot stuff with their bolters while camping an objective. I personally can never fit more than one unit in my lists because, like you said, they take up one of our valuable elite slots.
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






SoS would be fine if they didnt cost more than SoB units with the same stats.

Their anti-psycher abilties are just the comparative to the SoB traits so they shouldnt cost any more than them.

If they get ob-sec in the new talons codex and a slight points drop they are fine.


I would like them to get their kharon aquisitor (sp?) transport though, as that model is really cool.

They could do with a slightly weaker Alaya HQ option as well (I think she makes up 85pts of the duo).


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I thought prosecutors had obsec? Doesn't every talons (custodes and SoS) infantry and biker unit in our army get obsec now after some faq?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/15 11:21:54


 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Nope, they got left out of the list for ObSec. Sadly they are still some of our worst units. And I really want to know now what GW was intending them to be in 8th when they dropped? They were crap at psyker defense, and we already had the best character killers in the game, so what was their value again?

I have seen some youtubers say Vigilators rushing up the board in Rhinos are still a half way decent rush attack strat, but I don't see how given they are paper thin and have zero invuln.
   
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Been Around the Block




if they were troops they would be amazing for our army and offer great versatility build-wise.

but that would probably be too strong in the big picture of things. Telemons en masse, allarus spam, venatari/bike spam and all the insanity without having to pay any real tax.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Rule of three pretty much prevents any spam, but yeah, SoS as troops would be a bit broken for evading troop tax. Although the way 9th is going, we might end up getting that. They still suck though compared to our Shield bois.
   
Made in eu
Longtime Dakkanaut




Could be easily avoided though by implementing a rule where you can take one unit of sisters as troops per unit of custodian guard(spears/sword n board) you have in your list.
Would fit the fluff also because they are meant to fight together anyway. Talons of the emperor and all that.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Tiberias wrote:
Could be easily avoided though by implementing a rule where you can take one unit of sisters as troops per unit of custodian guard(spears/sword n board) you have in your list.
Would fit the fluff also because they are meant to fight together anyway. Talons of the emperor and all that.


That is actually a genius idea. Thematically I love that. Points wise I hate it. Now our troop tax is +50 points minimum. So instead of 450 for troops it's 600 to include sisters?
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Could be easily avoided though by implementing a rule where you can take one unit of sisters as troops per unit of custodian guard(spears/sword n board) you have in your list.
Would fit the fluff also because they are meant to fight together anyway. Talons of the emperor and all that.


That is actually a genius idea. Thematically I love that. Points wise I hate it. Now our troop tax is +50 points minimum. So instead of 450 for troops it's 600 to include sisters?


No, why? In a batallion for example you could still play 3 units of custodian guard/sagittarum as troops, just as you can do now....which costs about 450points for 3 min squads (a bit more if you take all shields).

Or you play 2 units of custodian guard/saggitarum and a unit of sisters. Which would cost you about 360 points. So you save quite a bit of points on your required troops for a battalion.

You just couldn't play 2 units of sisters as troops and one unit of custodian guard/saggitarum.

The suggestion was that you can play without sisters as troops if you want, but if you want to include them, you need one unit of custodian guard/saggitarum for each sisters unit as troops.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/15 14:24:04


 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Ah I see.

As to tactics, what would be the valuable way to employ SoS as troops? They really need a 4 or 5++ to even be half way decent. They are S3T3 1W bolters. Thats kinda worthless. Unless you give them the Custodian Invuln ability. Even max squad of the flamer girls, is almost 200 points, and that alone is likely their most worthwile config. 10d6 Autohitting D1 weapons on an enemy psyker.
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Ah I see.

As to tactics, what would be the valuable way to employ SoS as troops? They really need a 4 or 5++ to even be half way decent. They are S3T3 1W bolters. Thats kinda worthless. Unless you give them the Custodian Invuln ability. Even max squad of the flamer girls, is almost 200 points, and that alone is likely their most worthwile config. 10d6 Autohitting D1 weapons on an enemy psyker.


4++ would be too much on the sisters I believe. I'm not against a 5++, but I'd rather just make them a bit cheaper and leave it at that.
They don't have to be anywhere near as good as custodes or space marines in my opinion.

They just have to be cheap objective holders with a 3+ save, which is nothing to be snickered at. They also have decent ballistic skill and have additional value against psykers. Just drop their points a bit, give them the aforementioned option to be taken as troops and we're golden (pun intended).
   
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Without an invuln save they won't survive the current pace of the game, past turn 1. They are the equivalent of Guard Squads now, but more expensive, with slightly better shooting. They should be at least a 5+ against shooting, hell, give them a weaker version of Jink. 4+ against shooting attacks.

In their fluff, (which I know is a heretical word around here) they move almost faster than can be perceived. The Cannoness in Plague War tries to kill one and she misses all her shots, and only wins in melee through a literal divine intervention by the Emperor, I E GOD. It takes a literal god for a Canonness to take down a SoS. That is Assassin level speed. Give them a 5++ and call it something silly, keep them as elites. Then again we have Kharne ROLFstomping the head of a group of Sisters and not even realizing it, so meh.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/15 16:55:45


 
   
Made in us
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In My Lab

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Without an invuln save they won't survive the current pace of the game, past turn 1. They are the equivalent of Guard Squads now, but more expensive, with slightly better shooting. They should be at least a 5+ against shooting, hell, give them a weaker version of Jink. 4+ against shooting attacks.

In their fluff, (which I know is a heretical word around here) they move almost faster than can be perceived. The Cannoness in Plague War tries to kill one and she misses all her shots, and only wins in melee through a literal divine intervention by the Emperor, I E GOD. It takes a literal god for a Canonness to take down a SoS. That is Assassin level speed. Give them a 5++ and call it something silly, keep them as elites.
You'd need AP-4 to make them as squishy as IG Infantry Squads, on a model-to-model basis.

And if your opponent is firing on your SoS with AP-4 weapons, you're either winning so hard that they're desperate, or losing so hard that they don't care about efficiently firing anymore.

It's not their armor that makes them fragile. It's that they're T3 W1. But, slap 'em in cover, and make your opponent focus on more important targets, and they'll survive chip fire that comes their way.

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Made in eu
Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Without an invuln save they won't survive the current pace of the game, past turn 1. They are the equivalent of Guard Squads now, but more expensive, with slightly better shooting. They should be at least a 5+ against shooting, hell, give them a weaker version of Jink. 4+ against shooting attacks.

In their fluff, (which I know is a heretical word around here) they move almost faster than can be perceived. The Cannoness in Plague War tries to kill one and she misses all her shots, and only wins in melee through a literal divine intervention by the Emperor, I E GOD. It takes a literal god for a Canonness to take down a SoS. That is Assassin level speed. Give them a 5++ and call it something silly, keep them as elites. Then again we have Kharne ROLFstomping the head of a group of Sisters and not even realizing it, so meh.


Have to disagree on this one. When they are in cover the Sisters get a 2+ save, which makes them rather annoying to remove with low dmg AP1 weapons, which is generally the type of weaponry your opponent wants to shoot at your sisters, because the high quality shots with good AP are likely going to be saved for the golden boys since they are the bigger threat.

Shoot the sisters with AP0 weapons when they are in cover and it becomes downright frustrating. Especially considering that we'd give them a small points drop in our little thought exercise.
   
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Can I honestly ask to you guys play with a large amount of terrain in most of your matches? Because I seem to only ever play with ITC style terrain allotment. Two large buildings LOS Blocking, a Center piece LOS blocking, a couple pieces of light cover, usually in respective backfields, and that's usually it. 5 pieces of cover. Where are you putting these sisters that they magically get 2+ all game?
   
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Beaverton OR

I don't know what to tell you man, my games tend to be so terrain heavy it can be hard to even FIT a dreadnought anywhere on the map.

I've totally had dreads leaning against buildings because the only place I could put them was on some little hill where they are in danger of tipping over.

When you have maps like that: cover saves for small base infantry are relatively easy to get.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can I honestly ask to you guys play with a large amount of terrain in most of your matches? Because I seem to only ever play with ITC style terrain allotment. Two large buildings LOS Blocking, a Center piece LOS blocking, a couple pieces of light cover, usually in respective backfields, and that's usually it. 5 pieces of cover. Where are you putting these sisters that they magically get 2+ all game?


A lot of terrain in most games. It's a fine balance to allow movement for bigger models and inhibit alpha strikes. Mostly it's relatively easy to get cover with Infantry if you want it.

It's slightly beside the point though. If the sisters were to be a bit cheaper and you could use them as troops (maybe with the restrictions I proposed), they'd still be very good objective campers even without cover.
   
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I really appreciate the insight, because it means I can start insisting we use more cover at my local game store, and maybe it will happen. I feel like Custodes as a rule though are the least benefited faction by cover in the game, save Titans or Knights.

My friend just sent me an unopened still wrapped box of Wardens that he won from a local in NY, and I was thinking, does GW ever do trades for value? If I bring in a still sealed box, might I exchange it for a box of Guardians?
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I really appreciate the insight, because it means I can start insisting we use more cover at my local game store, and maybe it will happen. I feel like Custodes as a rule though are the least benefited faction by cover in the game, save Titans or Knights.

My friend just sent me an unopened still wrapped box of Wardens that he won from a local in NY, and I was thinking, does GW ever do trades for value? If I bring in a still sealed box, might I exchange it for a box of Guardians?


More terrain is almost always better imo, as long as things like dreadnoughts can still physically move on the board.

Custodes can benefit from cover a lot in my experience. Having a unit of custodian guard with shields in cover means they effectively ignore AP-2, which makes them even more of a pain to shift.
   
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ok, so im playing orgs tomorrow. Which one of these two lists do your prefer?


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [93 PL, 11CP, 1,999pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Shield Host

+ HQ +

Captain-General Trajann Valoris [10 PL, 190pts]

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, -1CP, 178pts]: Auric Aquilas, Captain-Commander, Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia, Strategic Mastermind, Superior Creation, Warlord

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 156pts]
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 148pts]
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield

Sagittarum Custodians [10 PL, 265pts]
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia

+ Elites +

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought [9 PL, 170pts]

Prosecutors [3 PL, 60pts]: Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun, 4x Psyk-Out Grenades

Vexilus Praetor [6 PL, 128pts]: Misericordia, Storm Shield, Vexilla Magnifica

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors [16 PL, 352pts]
. Vertus Praetor: Misericordia, Salvo Launcher
. Vertus Praetor: Misericordia, Salvo Launcher
. Vertus Praetor: Misericordia, Salvo Launcher
. Vertus Praetor: Misericordia, Salvo Launcher

Vertus Praetors [16 PL, 352pts]
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia

++ Total: [93 PL, 11CP, 1,999pts] ++



OR --->



++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [90 PL, 11CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Shield Host: Shadowkeepers

+ HQ +

Captain-General Trajann Valoris [10 PL, 190pts]

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, -1CP, 178pts]: Auric Aquilas, Captain-Commander, Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia, Strategic Mastermind, Warlord

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 148pts]
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 148pts]
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield

Sagittarum Custodians [10 PL, 265pts]
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia

+ Elites +

Allarus Custodians [15 PL, 385pts]
. Allarus Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Allarus Custodian: Castellan Axe, Misericordia
. Allarus Custodian: Castellan Axe, Misericordia
. Allarus Custodian: Castellan Axe, Misericordia
. Allarus Custodian: Castellan Axe, Misericordia

Vexilus Praetor [6 PL, 128pts]: Misericordia, Storm Shield, Vexilla Magnifica

Vexilus Praetor [6 PL, 118pts]: Misericordia, Storm Shield, Vexilla Imperius

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors [20 PL, 440pts]
. Vertus Praetor: Misericordia, Salvo Launcher
. Vertus Praetor: Misericordia, Salvo Launcher
. Vertus Praetor: Misericordia, Salvo Launcher
. Vertus Praetor: Misericordia, Salvo Launcher
. Vertus Praetor: Misericordia, Salvo Launcher

++ Total: [90 PL, 11CP, 2,000pts] ++


Both are infantry heavy and stack lots of CP. They could both go victor on the dawneagle captain if I want.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
or this with 3 dreads.


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [96 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Shield Host: Shadowkeepers

+ HQ +

Captain-General Trajann Valoris [10 PL, 190pts]

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, -1CP, 178pts]: Captain-Commander, Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia, Warlord

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 148pts]
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 141pts]
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear, Misericordia
. Custodian: Guardian Spear

Sagittarum Custodians [10 PL, 265pts]
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia
. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia

+ Elites +

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought [9 PL, -1CP, 170pts]: Eternal Penitent

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought [9 PL, -1CP, 170pts]: Eternal Penitent

Prosecutors [3 PL, 60pts]: Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun, 4x Psyk-Out Grenades

Vexilus Praetor [6 PL, 128pts]: Misericordia, Storm Shield, Vexilla Magnifica

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 255pts]
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter
. Vertus Praetor: Hurricane Bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought [14 PL, 295pts]: Arachnus Storm Cannon
. Telemon Caestus

++ Total: [96 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/16 08:36:05


 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




The Dread list is a TAC list which will likely serve you the best. The Heavy Infantry will likely win you the most, no matter who you play, because it's such a cheese maneuver. It's really up to you. What would bring you happiness to play?

Also, I'd be really interested to see photos of your Shadow keepers. How you chose to paint them. I wanted to see some other Shadow keepers and get inspiration.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/16 11:32:44


 
   
Made in dk
Been Around the Block




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The Dread list is a TAC list which will likely serve you the best. The Heavy Infantry will likely win you the most, no matter who you play, because it's such a cheese maneuver. It's really up to you. What would bring you happiness to play?

Also, I'd be really interested to see photos of your Shadow keepers. How you chose to paint them. I wanted to see some other Shadow keepers and get inspiration.


yeah, I actually think max bodies for custodes is the strongest. its just a bit boring.

I used to always have 6x bikes in a blob. its just so good. but lately I've switched to 2x4. I love that setup. they put a lot of stress on your opponent and they are fun to play.

Are you guys Into hurricane og salvo for them?


Sadly I dont paint them shadow keepers per se- I just paint them gold with dark tones.

   
 
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