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The soulburner petard does a MW on a 2+ to wound?

I was just thinking 3 of them with a lord discordant so they're hitting on 2s and the master of possession letting them reroll 1s to hit and wound.

You could even make them iron warriors and give the MOP the WLT so 6s to hit explode and 6s to wound generate another shot.

Probably looking at more like around 10 MWs from each, at 24" range. The MOP can also give all the Daemon engines a 4++ so a reasonably durable little castle.

Thing is, 30 MWs a turn will cripple pretty much any list and there's not a whole lot of defence against it. Would kill Mortarian in one turn, or take out 400pts of Blightlord Terminators

You need to roll a 6+ to wound, then you get an additional attack. This additional attack must hit, and you must roll a 2+ to wound to get a MW.

The Crimson Crown
Each time you make a wound roll of 6+ for a friendly KHORNE DAEMON unit within 6" of the bearer of the Crimson Crown, the model that made that attack can immediately make an extra attack against the same target using the same weapon. These extra attacks cannot themselves generate any further attacks.

The IW WLT daemonsmith gives you one additional hit on an unmodified hit roll of 6.

Daemonsmith
When resolving an attack made by a model in a friendly IRON WARRIORS DAEMON ENGINE or IRON WARRIORS CULT OF DESTRUCTION unit within 6" of this Warlord, an unmodified hit roll of 6 scores 1 additional hit.

This would give you two additional hits when you fire 12 shots from your six soulburners. 12 shots hitting on 2s, will give you 10 hits, plus two from daemonsmith means 12 hits, rolling 2+ to wound is 10MW for all three dreads, so 3.33 MW per dread.

The infernal power lets you reroll 1s to hit and wound.

Infernal Power
If manifested, then until the start of your next Psychic phase re-roll hit and wound rolls of 1 for attacks made by friendly <LEGION> DAEMON units whilst they are within 6" of this psyker.

I dont know anything about mathhammer, but im pretty sure you wont get 10MW from each dread, with those rerolls its more like 4-5.

Yeh I think your maths is off.
Each Decimator gets 2x 2D3 shots with the soulburners.

So 8 shots hitting on 2s, RR1s and 6s explode so probably looking at around 9 hits per dread.

9 hits wounding on 2s, RR1s and 6s generate a new attack so i make that about 10 MWs on average from each dread.

True, i was thinking 4 shots per dread.

Just painted up a Master of Executions last night, and jeez I hope they do something to make this guy valuable next codex.

Anybody have any success with him in any role? I kinda hamstring myself by playing Black Legion. I could see value with him in World Eaters and Emperor's Children...

I kind of hope they move guys like him to elite rather than HQ, or maybe even do something like the Feotid Virion for DG.
We have so many HQ characters which don't get a look in with the three HQ limit in 9th.
The MOE doesn't seem so bad when he's not taking up one of your HQ slots.

Rihgu wrote:
Just painted up a Master of Executions last night, and jeez I hope they do something to make this guy valuable next codex.

Anybody have any success with him in any role? I kinda hamstring myself by playing Black Legion. I could see value with him in World Eaters and Emperor's Children...

master of executuions should've been an aspiring champion with a special axe, and the kit should've included a jumppack....

Rihgu wrote:
Just painted up a Master of Executions last night, and jeez I hope they do something to make this guy valuable next codex.

Anybody have any success with him in any role? I kinda hamstring myself by playing Black Legion. I could see value with him in World Eaters and Emperor's Children...

I don't know... put him in a Rhino and charge him out of the Rhino and into combat as a one shot missile. Kind of like how Drukhari do it with their succubus. Except of course, a raider is much better than a Rhino and a succubus is much better than a Master of Executions, but at least the points are sort of comparable...

If you are set on Black Legion, the talismen of blood is good for him because it lets him advance and charge into combat plus reroll charges. His weapon is already good so you don't need to upgrade that. So aim for a good exchange with him. If he manages to one shot a more expensive character, it would be a good trade up. Or if he kills off a squad that is more than his points.

He has a 9+d6+12 inch threat range if he disembarks from a Rhino. Its pretty decent. And since he is cheap, and treated as a one shot missile, you don't care if he dies.


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Abaddon303 wrote:
The soulburner petard does a MW on a 2+ to wound?

I was just thinking 3 of them with a lord discordant so they're hitting on 2s and the master of possession letting them reroll 1s to hit and wound.

You could even make them iron warriors and give the MOP the WLT so 6s to hit explode and 6s to wound generate another shot.

Probably looking at more like around 10 MWs from each, at 24" range. The MOP can also give all the Daemon engines a 4++ so a reasonably durable little castle.

Thing is, 30 MWs a turn will cripple pretty much any list and there's not a whole lot of defence against it. Would kill Mortarian in one turn, or take out 400pts of Blightlord Terminators

Well. I think you will demolish some lists, and struggle against others. They are almost like eradicators. Same 24 inch range, same weakness, needs line of sight too. No one denies their devastating firepower. But smart opponents will stay out of range or stay out of sight. And once they try and get too close, they open themselves up to being charged and tagged in combat.

3 of them with a LD and a MOP is 700 points of a shooty castle. Shooty castles alone won't win you the game so it will depend on the rest of your list. Plus this shooty castle only has a 24 inch shooting range. If your opponent gives you lots of juicy targets for this castle without having a plan to deal with them, he likely wasn't a very good player or he was simply playing a bad matchup list.

Imperium: 2 full pay load manticores will hide out of line of sight from turn 1, and use vengence of cadia to pound them into bit (might take more than one turn, but you can't target his Manticores anyway).

Admech: king of shooty. They have the firepower to take out the decimaters, and you can't destroy their firepower fast tnough before they take them out.

Drukhari: massed dark lances at 36 inches on transports that can fly... If they lose, they must be such a bad player.

Blood angels: With forlorn fury, he could probably tag the whole castle round 1, probably, with more flying melee troops following up from turn 2 onwards. If you keep them super far back with tons of fodder in front. He can still hide all his melee behind cover, then fly over and tag you when you move up to within charge range.

Space marines in general: Keep out of shooting range or out of line of sight, use small arms fire to destroy your fodder. Once your fodder is gone, charge in and tag your castle in close combat.

The terrain in your local meta probably matters too. If its very open, with not much to hide behind, they will probably be more effective. If its terrain heavy with lots of LOS blocking, then not so much. I am not trying to discourage you. But good players know how scary they are (and that they are basically a shooty castle), and will treat it as that accordingly. Only inexperienced players who don't know how much mortal wounds they can potentially pump out will walk right into their range and then lose badly.

macluvin wrote:
Man I wish there was more talk about how to make our codex work in 9th edition... It’s kind of depressing. I know we all waiting for our 9e codex to drop...

Anyways adding 1-2 mortal wounds per soul burner per turn might be a good use of such an artifact. The bonus attacks don’t make more attacks though. If you could buff the attack roll or reroll 1s it would synergies even better.

Contemptors with volkite culverin guns.

Get 3 of them, or kitbash it.

Yes, your final CP count at the start of the game is dangerously low but they're literally one of the most best unit in the game right now, and a really good counter against things like DE raider spam or Morty/Deathguards (for mortal wounds).

I want to build some WE army to match with a patrol with Daemon Prince skullreaver, bloodthrister and 30 bloodletter boomb.

But I'm scared they renew the models (berzerkers, new terminators...) in 6 months and feth my army :(

Kebabcito wrote:
I want to build some WE army to match with a patrol with Daemon Prince skullreaver, bloodthrister and 30 bloodletter boomb.

But I'm scared they renew the models (berzerkers, new terminators...) in 6 months and feth my army :(

Berserkers are pretty ugly models that look like they are tripping over themselves under the best of circumstances. Also the size of their hands... I recommend counts as bolt pistol chainsword/chain axe CSM tactical squad kits for the time being. Maybe even kitbash em with some Khornate iconography.

I used the new CSM sculpts with heads from AOS Skullcrushers and some other Khorne bits.

I also converted Red Butchers from the new terminator sculpts, I don't think they will release new Khorne terminators so you're probably pretty safe picking some of them up...


Can see more of them at: www.instagram.com/first.amongst.traitors

I put a Master of Executions in a Dreadclaw and was able to get a charge through Breachable terrain (to avoid Overwatch) with a Character Knight Magaera.
I did like, 7 wounds between Black-Clad Brute's Mortals and normal choppy axe.

That... is a decent shout, I guess. If I had the CP to VotLW we may have seen a BRACKETED knight!

Those conversions are bonkers amazing. Like if I had more money and space I would be begging you for a how to video...there’s your tactics right there. Put those on the table and watch your opponent contemplate shooting such gorgeous masterpieces off the table and ultimately fail... he knows that the blood and skulls must flow.

I am kinda curious about something. We have seen how amazing Contemptor dreadnaughts with volkites are. So, has anyone tried putting together an shooty list with three such contemptors ?

Like maybe an Iron Warriors list or a black legion list with Abbadon giving full rerolls to make those Contemptor Dreadnaughts even more crazy? And CSM still has that fire frenzy strategem right? Does that work on Contemptors? (I don't have a single Contemptor so I really can't tell how this would be in an actual combat).

But like, maybe a list with 3 Contemptors, 3 squads of Havocs, etc? It would be fragile, but we can hide behind obscuring cover. When we jump out, with Cacophony. Thats a ton of firing from just 6 units. And its 900 points? We can kit out the rest of the army to play the mission while still having a pretty shooty punch.

Abbadon giving full rerolls to 3 Contemptors sound rather spicy. And he would serve as a good counter punch unit as well for anyone who wants to come and mess with the Contemptors. lol

IIRC it's unit name Helbrute not keyword for Fire Frenzy.

 Eldarain wrote:
IIRC it's unit name Helbrute not keyword for Fire Frenzy.

I see. Well, its still a massive amount of shooty output.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, I got excited and thought of a list. What do you think?

Black Legion Battalion.

HQ: Abaddon (warlord),
Council of traitors: Tzeentch sorceror with arch sorceror (prescience, weaver of fates, warptime) and
Dark Apostle with trusted warleader.

3 basic CSM troops.
2 units of raptors, 1 unit of 3 chaos spawn
3 Havocs squad (2 units with all lascannons, 1 unit with 2 reaper chain cannon and 2 heavy bolters).
3 Contemptor dreads with volkites
1 big squad of 10 terminators with lightningt claw and combi bolters.

So, The HQ including Abaddon will hang back with the Contemptors and Havocs initially to use shooting to soften up the opponent and eliminate dangerous threats. The Apostle will use illusionary sup to give all the Contemptors a 5++ invul. Sorceror will give one Havoc unit prescience and make the Terminator unit 4++ invul.

The terminator unit with lightning claws and combis will be a distraction carnefix. It goes up the midboard into cover to get a 1+ cover save and 4++ invul from the sorceror. Then it either shoots 40 shots every turn or/and charges into combat and slice and dice with all the lightning claws.

While the opponent is busy trying to handle all the shooting and the big termi block in the center. The 2 units of raptors, the spawn, and the 3 CSM squads and the dark disciplies will go and do stuff like scramblers, or raise banners or engage on all fronts.

Abaddon is giving full rerolls to all of the shooty units. But once the terminators need help, the sorceror will warptime his up to the midboard and he will do a surprise nasty counter charge into whatever is assailing the terminators.

The list starts with 10 cp, and the war leader Apostle helps add more CP as the game progresses. So, lots of CP for strategems like Cacophony or veterans of the long war. The contemptors themselves end up being a good distraction carnefix. with a 5++ invul from the Apostle, they are tankier, and the opponent will probably focus so much attention on killing them he doesn't target the havocs. So, hopefully the Havocs can survive long enough so that we can get a few turns of cacophony+veterans+precience going off on them. Add in full rerolls on all 6 units, I think they will too shooty to ignore, and yet by the time an opponent kills enough of the 6 units, their shooting would have done enough damage to the opponent's army.

The shooty deathball with Abbadon will actually move around. Except maybe first turn behind obscurring, once I come out, I want the best angles to shoot, so will keep on moving around while shooting. I want them to shoot this deathball anyway so that the rest of the army can play the mission. Its definitely not the tankiest deathball around, but it should be shooty enough such that by the time it gets cut down to size, it would have done an equal amount or more damage to the opponent in the process. Also, black legion has a strategem that allows rerolls of 1 to a CSM infantry unit. So, a Havoc squad can actually move out of Abbadons bubble (to get a better angle for shooting) and you can still stack prescience+cocophony+veterans on it to make it shoot twice, +1 to wound, +1 to hit and reroll 1s to hit to give a very nasty surprise to an opponent.

See the contemptors are great but I'm inclined to go back to the decimators in this situation.

I run volkite contemptors in my DG army but I can boost the AP and accuracy with ferric blight and a tallyman to get more wounds through and the S6 is good with the toughness reduction.

With Abaddon's rerolls on the contemptors you will get 2/3 two damage wounds through against MEQ but that drops off big time against anything with a better save or higher toughness. You are left with really just picking up the MWs.

I had a bit of a further think about the Decis, I think actually running them as Word Bearers is worth more than the exploding 6s from the IW trait. It means you can give the +1 to cast relic to the MOP and with the strat can almost guarantee you cast cursed earth while infernal power will go off on a 5.

The result is a moving castle of Lord Discordant and 3 Decimators, 48 wounds all with a 4+ invulnerable save hitting on 2s rerollings 1s and doing MWs on 2s rerolling 1s. The lord discordant and blood master are very good counter melee threats too.

The four Daemon engines regen a wound each turn and the MOP can also take Sacrifice and take a wound off the Disco Lord to heal a Decimator 3 wounds if desperate.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Daemons) [40 PL, 11CP, 684pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Chaos Allegiance: Chaos Undivided

Detachment Command Cost

+ HQ +

Bloodmaster [3 PL, 60pts]: The Crimson Crown

Spoilpox Scrivener [5 PL, 100pts]: Warlord

+ Troops +

Nurglings [6 PL, 88pts]
. 4x Nurgling Swarms: 4x Diseased claws and teeth

Nurglings [6 PL, 88pts]
. 4x Nurgling Swarms: 4x Diseased claws and teeth

Plaguebearers [15 PL, -1CP, 258pts]: Daemonic Icon, Plague Banner, Plagueridden
. 26x Plaguebearer: 26x Plaguesword

Plaguebearers [5 PL, 90pts]: Plagueridden
. 9x Plaguebearer: 9x Plaguesword

++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [71 PL, -4CP, 1,316pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

Legion: Word Bearers

+ Stratagems +

Gifts of Chaos (1 Relic) [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Lord Discordant on Helstalker [10 PL, 195pts]: Autocannon, Mark of Khorne
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector

Master of Possession [5 PL, 95pts]: Cursed Earth, Infernal Power, No Chaos Mark, Sacrifice, The Malefic Tome

+ Elites +

Decimator [9 PL, 180pts]: Mark of Khorne, 2x Soulburner petard

Decimator [9 PL, 180pts]: Mark of Khorne, 2x Soulburner petard

Decimator [9 PL, 180pts]: Mark of Khorne, 2x Soulburner petard

Mutilators [5 PL, 105pts]: Mark of Khorne
. 3x Mutilator: 3x Fleshmetal weapons

Terminators [16 PL, 231pts]: Icon of Wrath, Mark of Khorne
. Terminator: Combi-melta, Power fist
. Terminator: Combi-melta, Power axe
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Power axe
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Power axe
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Power axe
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Power axe
. Terminator Champion: Chainfist, Combi-melta

+ Flyer +

Heldrake [8 PL, 150pts]: Baleflamer, Mark of Khorne

++ Total: [111 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

So my FLGS is trying to get back into the swing of things. They're starting up a gaming night and only allowing 500 pt Patrols to play. That's a hard limit of only 1 patrol except for Knight players (they're still limited to 500pts).

My question to the community is- is it better to have a reroll of 1s from one of the lord type characters or the +1 to hit from prescience from a sorceror?

I'm planning on running Emp's Children since I can get noise marines as a troop choice. I figure that I'm limited to 1 HQ slot as a practical matter so which do I take? A lord or a sorceror?

I'm inclined to say lord as it's an aura buff rather than allocated to a single unit, it's not dependent on rolling and the lord is more survivable and more killy on his own

Yeah same. If its 500 points, I think a Lord is more reliable.

Thanks for the opinions. I think I'm going to run the following:

Chaos Lord in Termie Armor, combi bolter and, chainfist.

10 Noise Marines, 8 Sonic Blasters, 2 Blast Masters

10 Noise Marines 10 Astartes Swords, 9 bolt pistols, 1 plasma pistol, Icon of Excess

Comes to exactly 500 points.

You have to consider that your troops are 1W and much more fragile than loyalist marines. You may be facing double the wounds of your army. Is your shooting really double the output of a pimaris? Dreadnaughts are probably the ideal thing to bring one of in a 500 point army because they can shoot, they are tanky and they can fight too.

Imagine if you face a loyalist 500 point army with a Redemptor dreadnaught, a hero, and the rest of the points in troops. That Redemptor alone could cause major problems, not even counting the 2W troops or the hero. Unfortunately, CSM don't have Redemptors in our army. We do have Hellbrutes though, which may be decent in a 500 point army.

Not sure if you should go that crazy on troops simply because our troops are inferior to loyalist marine troops (its a fact). 2000 point lists can have noise marines in them because they got a ton of other stuff to back them up. In a 500 point list where all you have are only noise marines, just not sure if that will be enough.

Oddly enough, I highly rate WE Berserkers for 500 point lists. I don't think that many 500 point lists have the firepower to pop a Rhino in 1 turn (unless they are very lucky). So, A rhino is 85 points? Pack it with 2 squads of Berserkers or 1 big squad and your Hero. Turn 1, zoom move advance the Rhino 12+d6 inches up the board and pop smoke. Turn 2, the Zerkers disembark 3 inches, move 6 and charge 2d6 inches. If the zerkers have icon of wrath they are reroll charges.

I am not sure there is much in a 500 point list that will survive being charged by zerkers, especially if you pop strategems on them (like Vets of the long war and stoke the nails and stuff). Its a lot tougher to pull off in a 2000 point matchup because those lists have the shooting to both pop the Rhino and kill the zerkers inside. In a 500 point match, there is a good chance if you pop smoke your Rhino doesn't even die. Then you can use the Rhino to also sit on objectives, or absorb overwatch while your zerkers charge in turn 2 and wreck face.

You can try and roll it out. Take your one squad of noise marines, have it shoot at a squad of 5 Primaris marines (10W) and see if it dies in one turn. (My bet is it doesn't). Then try it on Primaris in cover with a 2+ save. I bet even less will die. Now have a squad of zerkers charge that same squad. Roll out the dozens of attacks, with VOTLW. My bet is that the Primaris are toast. WE zerkers on the charge will kill just about anything in a list unless they have something that can make you fight last, or stop you from attacking first. Its just too many attacks because of hateful assault plus the WE trait plus fighting twice. (It they are imperium you get to add death to the false emperor into the mix which would make it even scarier).Throwing buckets of dice at something will solve most problems. lol

A hellbrute is cheap in points and can move 8 inches. Take a Hellbrute, a rhino, zerkers and a Hero. If you want 2 squads, you can make your hero have a jump pack and have him fly alongside the Rhino. Then go World Eaters and wreck face. The weakness of WE is to shooting, but a 500 point list can't pack that much shooting. So go for it is my advice. Or if you jiggle around the points, maybe you can forgo the hellbrute and instead pack 2 Rhinos with two squads of Zerkers and a Hero in your list. Turn 1, zoom up, pop smoke. If he cannot kill 2 Rhions at -1 to hit on turn 1, he gets hit by 2 squads of zerkers and a hero on turn 2. Pretty sure there are extremely few things that can survive a charge by 2 squads of zerkers and a hero. Turn 3, mop up and table him. Don't worry about scoring objectives and VP because your opponent will probably be dead by turn 3. If he is smart and placed his shooty unit well in his backline. Turn 3, get back into your Rhinos, zoom advance forward 12+d6 inches again. Then turn 4, disemback, charge and table him.

And you will then learn to love the nuances of melee combat after you play WE. Like newbies putting a ranged shooty unit 6 inches behind their frontline unit? You charge in, hack his frontline apart, then use the strategem "kill miam burn". Suddenly, instead of consolidating 3 inches, you consolidate 6 inches. Now his shooty unit is tagged in melee... lol Against newbies, you could possibly table them by turn 3 if they are inexperienced.

Endless cacophony might adjust for that what else is he dumping CP on anyways... unless he wants to deepstrike with terminators and get that sweet almost guaranteed charge... wait are sonic dreads still a thing?

I also have excrutiating frequencies which adds 1 to S and damage and costs 1 CP.

Unfortunately, sonic dreads are now the things of legends.

My poor mathhammer skill says that I'll do about 12 wds to a loyalist marine unit with just frequencies. If I add in VoLW then I'll do about 14 wds.

Against T8 3+ I'll do about 7.5 wds with frequency. Add in VoLW and it goes to around 12 wds.

My Termie Lord in HtH with the T8 3+ will do 6 wds with no enhancements. With VoLW he'll do about 8 wds.

I mean... can you excruciating frequencies and endless cacophony them? I feel like that would give you an amazing alpha strike. And I suppose if you'd like to VotLW them...

Because we are playing at 500pts we only start with 3 CP. After I gain another point I could use all three but then I would be reduced to 0 CPs for the rest of the turn.

Excruciating Frequencies and VotLW are each 1 CP. Endless Cacophony is 2 CPs.

Ah yes I didn’t think of that... definitely better for marine slaying. Way more efficient too; cheaper than endless cacophony and more damage output!

Shooting twice with a 200pt unit in a 500pt match up just seems like an autowin to me lol. I'd blow your 4cp turn one personally, there'll be nothing left to spend your CP on after that.
You should be able to do about 300pts of damage with that sort of shooting...

Weird question (probably due to my brain having 8th and 9th rules intermingling), but can I have a legal, Matched Play list with a 1kSons Detachment, a Wordbearers Detachment AND a mixed Daemons Detachment?

I know the later lose Loci, etc... but if everyone is in their own detachments, is sharing the Chaos keyword enough to make the wider list legal?