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1850 Hive Fleet Pandora with Deathleaper Assassin Brood + Tyrannocyte vs Chaos Daemons (Completed)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Just how good is a Daemon Summoning army?
Yes, it is good enough to beat my lictor-heavy army.
Draw. I have enough units to counteract his summoned units.
No, it won't beat my bugs, but not because of the army. Rather it is due to ring-rust and lack of experience from my opponent.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Ok, this is my 3rd game running the Deathleaper Assassin Brood and also my first time trying out the Tyrannocyte. My opponent today, Chris, is just getting back into the game after a brief hiatus. He's played a number of times with his Daemons and have been changing it up, trying different units and such. We actually played recently before. It was his first introduction to my Dimachaeron and he learned to fear it as it single-handedly took out over 1000-pts of his army. He's learned since how to deal with it with a little advice from me - get Baleswords for your Nurgle monsters!

This will also be my 1st match against a Daemon Summoning army. Well, he's not running a pure Summoning army, but he can definitely summon a lot of stuff if he wanted, thanks to 4 Level 3 psykers on his list. However, he is also playing a somewhat themed list running mainly Nurgle and Slaanesh units. I, on the other hand, am trying out the Deathleaper Assassin Brood formation. It's not a super-competitive Tyranid build, but I'm finding it to be super-fun because it really is a challenging army to play. Unlike some of my more competitive armies, this army really forces you to play more strategically, which in turn will help you more to become a better player. It's not easy, but I'm finding that winning with it oftentimes is much more rewarding to me than winning with my more hardcore, competitive lists.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1850 Hive Fleet Pandora with Deathleaper Assassin Brood + Tyrannocyte vs Chaos Daemons


1850 Deathleaper Assassin's Brood Tyranids

Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Egrubs
Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Egrubs

Malanthrope

3x Rippers - Deepstrike
3x Rippers - Deepstrike

Dimachaeron

Mawloc
Mawloc
Mawloc
Tyrannocyte - 5x Barbed Stranglers

Bastion - Comms Relay

Deathleaper Assassin's Brood Formation:

Deathleaper

Lictor
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor



1850 Nurgle Daemons w/Slaanesh Allies

This is just an approximation of his list. I might have mixed up some of his gifts.


Greater Unclean One - Level 3 Psyker, 2x Greater Gifts - Balesword, 4+ FNP, Endurance, Iron Arm, shooty powers
Greater Unclean One - Level 3 Psyker, 2x Greater Gifts - Balesword, 4+ FNP, Warp Speed, shooty powers

3x Nurglings
10x Plaguebearers

Daemon Prince - Level 3 Psyker, 3+, Wings, Nurgle, 2x Greater Gifts - Balesword, Re-roll Invuln's, Incursion, Summoning, shooty powers
Soulgrinder - Nurgle, Phlegm

Aegis Defense Line - Quad-guns

Daemon Allies:

Keeper of Secrets - Level 3 Psyker, 2x Greater Gifts - 3+, Lash of Despair, Summoning, other powers

10x Daemonettes

Soulgrinder - Slaanesh, Torrent


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Missions:


Primary Objectives: Big Guns, 4-pts


Secondary Objectives: Modified Maelstrom, 3-pts

1. Hold Your Objective 1.
2. Hold Your Objective 2.
3. Hold Your Opponent's Objective 1.
4. Hold Your Opponent's Objective 2.
5. Destroy an enemy unit.
6. Destroy an enemy unit.


Tertiary Objectives: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each


Deployment: Vanguard Strike


1st Turn: Daemons


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Daemon Summoning may be a problem. If he rolls well for his Summoning powers, then I just may be in trouble. He especially got lucky with Incursion, which he can use to summon some highly mobile units to complement his otherwise rather slow army. I will also potentially have problems against his army in close combat. Unlike last game, where my Dimachaeron just walked through his army without a care in the world, this game is going to be much different. I can't fight his MC's directly. He's got too much insta-killing offense. I need to park my dimachaeron on an objective in cover and then let his MC's charge me. I should then be able to take out all but the GUO with Endurance.

How I plan to beat my opponent is in the Movement Phase. I plan to beat him with my philosophy of Positional Dominance. Basically, I need to keep his main forces "distracted" by throwing waves and waves of units at him and then take the objectives with my lictors and rippers while he is busy dealing with them. Now this is easier said than done, as he can summon daemons to take objectives and then I am forced to deal with them with single lictors, mawlocs and rippers (in other words, my not-so-offensive units). If he falls for my "trap", then I think that I can take this. However, if he plays his army more aggressively, then I think I am going to have a hard time against his army, especially if summoning is going his way.

In this game, I'm not sure how big of a role my flyrants will play. I am going to have problems taking out his T7 MC's in ruins for 2+ cover (and 4+ FNP!) or his FMC with 2+ jink saves. Even his troops should be getting 2+ cover if he plays them correctly. At least I don't have much to fear with his shooting, or rather, lack of....or do I?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


DEPLOYMENT:

Spoiler:
My Psychic powers:

Flyrant #1 - Horror, Paroxysm
Flyrant #2 - Warp Blast, Paroxysm


His Psychic powers - see list above.


Warlord Traits:

Mine - something useless.

His - all Daemons within 12" can re-roll their Daemonic Instability tests.



Daemon deployment. He deploys everything.


My deployment. As usual, I reserve most of my army with the exception of....


....2 infiltrating lictors here....


....and a 3rd lictor there.

I don't bother to seize.




-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Daemons 1

Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:

Daemons:

4. Hold Your Opponent's Objective 2.
5. Destroy an enemy unit.

Tyranids:

4. Hold Your Opponent's Objective 2.
6. Destroy an enemy unit.



Daemonettes move up to grab Objective #2.

Daemon Prince (DP) swoops into the ruins.


The rest of the army moves.


I'm going to keep track of a stat for this game. I call it the "Daemons Summoned" stat. Here, his DP summons a unit of plague drones with Incursion.

Daemons Summoned: 126-pts


The Keeper of Secrets then summon a unit of daemonettes. BTW, all of his summoned troop units come with Sergeant, Icon and Musician.

Daemons Summoned: 241-pts


DP also casts Life Leech to take off 2W from my Lictor.

Otherwise, no shooting. He doesn't really have any targets.


His units run.




Tyranids 1

Spoiler:

Flyrants fly forwards. I decide to go after the ObSec daemonettes. I am hoping to get First Blood with them as well as to deny him his Objective #2 Maelstrom objective.


However, my flyrants are out-of-range to kill them all. Where is Onslaught when you need it!?!

We both get our Maelstrom Objective #2 objectives this turn.

Maelstrom VP's - Daemons: 1, Tyranids: 1




Daemons 2

Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:

Daemons:

1. Hold Your Objective 1.
2. Hold Your Objective 2.

Tyranids:

3. Hold Your Opponent's Objective 1.
5. Destroy an enemy unit.



Plague drones go after my lictor. That should be an easy First Blood for him, considering my lictor is down to 1W remaining.


Daemonettes go after my other lictor.


DP summons some more plague drones.

Daemons Summoned: 367-pts

This is going to get out of hand pretty quickly if I don't do something about it.


The KoS summons some more daemonettes.

Daemons Summoned: 482-pts

Fortunately for me, they scatter back onto his KoS. He then rolls a on the mishap table, thus giving me First Blood. Thanks, bud, I needed that.


Shooting manages to put 1W on my Warlord, but he stays in the air.


Finally, we go to Assault. Drones easily make the assault....


....and just as easily take him out. However, my opponent wasn't paying attention and consolidated off of the objective that he needed.


Daemonettes make the long charge (about 9-10")....


....and easily take him out as well (but not before I kill 1 daemonette).

Man, in addition to his army, now I've got to deal with 2 units of plague drones running around in my backfield as well as 1 unit of summoned daemonettes as well. This is going to be much harder than I thought!




Tyranids 2

Spoiler:

Mawloc comes in, using a lictor as a homing beacon, and hits the plaguebearers. He kills 4 and then mishaps back into reserves.


The other mawloc comes in, lands directly, kills 5 daemonettes and then goes back into reserves as well.

The last mawloc comes in on top of the plague drones, misses completely, mishaps and go back into reserves as well.

I am happy at the fact that all 3 of my mawlocs went back into reserves.


The deathleaper and 1 lictor comes in. I put them by Objective #2 and the daemonettes.


Dima comes in. I put him deep within my opponent's backfield. He will be the trouble-maker that the GUO's will have to contend with.


Flyrants spread out. One goes for soulgrinder rear armor. The other....ummm....not really sure what I was going to do with him.

I was planning to take out the DP, but my opponent makes a mistake and tells me that he had 4+ FNP (when he actually had re-roll Invuln's). So I think, he's got 2+ jink and 4+ FNP....


....nah, I'm just going to ignore him. Flyrant shoots at the plague drones and kills 2.


Lictor spits at the DP and causes 1W. This is when I find out that he didn't have FNP.


My Warlord goes after the grinder but can't take him down. I do, however, strip him of 3 Hull Points as well as 1 weapon.

My opponent gets Objective #1 but fails to get Objective #2 because he consolidated his plague drones off of it. I get 1 VP because my opponent kills 1 of his own units from a mishap, but there was no way in heck I was going to get my opponent's Objective #1 (he had 2 GUO's, the KoS and an ObSec unit of nurglings on it!).

Maelstrom VP's - Daemons: 2, Tyranids: 2




Daemons 3

Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:

Daemons:

5. Destroy an enemy unit.
6. Destroy an enemy unit.


Tyranids:

3. Hold Your Opponent's Objective 1.
6. Destroy an enemy unit.


Crap! I get his Objective #1 again! Not going to happen. This turn, he may potentially surpass me in the Maelstrom objectives.


Daemons move back towards the dima....


....except for his KoS, who advances instead.

This turn, instead of Summoning, he buffs up his GUO's.


Warpstorm time. Chris rolls an 11 - Daemonic Possession!!! Fortunately for me, my Warlord passes his Leadership on 3D6.


WTF?!? Really? Psychic shooting from his DP along with the quad-guns and 1 soulgrinder take down my full-health flyrant.


The other grinder, the Nurgle one, spits at my lictor and then insta-kills him.


Lone drone assaults my lictor....


....but I show him who's boss. The combination of Daemonic Instability and -1 to LD due to the lictors causes his drone to evaporate.


The other drones try to tear down my fortification with their Touch of Rust....


....but it still stands firm (though with only 1HP left).




Tyranids 3

Spoiler:

Mawloc comes in, causes 2W and then dies in a mishap.


The other mawloc comes in, kills off 1 drone and then gets misplaced due to mishapping.


He won't survive next turn.


As you can see, I really want his plague drones dead. I drop my 3rd mawloc there as well, killing another 1 drone. I then move my units (rippers came in last turn).


I drop a unit of rippers into no-scatter range of Deathleaper.


My Warlord goes into glide mode to finish the job that he should have done last turn.


I drop a lictor right in front of the Endurance GUO (and his Warlord) to block his path. Dima then advances.


Deathleaper take out the daemonettes.


Flyrant takes out the grinder.


Lictor shoots the grinder in the butt and actually immobilizes him.


Mawloc runs 6" into terrain.


Finally, I opt to assault the grinder with the dima. I choose the attack where I roll a 6, I get another attack at S10 AP1. However, I roll miserably, not getting a single 6 to hit and only 1 glance with the the armor penetration. In return, the grinder does 1W back to the dima.


Finally, I assault the drone with both my mawloc and the rippers....


....it isn't even close.

My opponent gets both of his Maelstrom objectives this turn for killing a flyrant and a lictor. I only get 1-VP for killing a unit (daemonettes, soulgrinder, plague drones).

Maelstrom VP's - Daemons: 4, Tyranids: 3




Daemons 4

Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:

Daemons:

2. Hold Your Objective 2.
6. Destroy an enemy unit.

Tyranids:

3. Hold Your Opponent's Objective 1.
5. Destroy an enemy unit.


For the 3rd turn in a row, I need to get my opponent's Objective #1 with ObSec nurglings, 2 GUO's and a KoS protecting it. Just great.


Daemon troops advance. He's also got 1 drone left.


This is going to get ugly real quick. Endurance GUO goes after the mawloc. Warp Speed GUO goes after my dima. KoS goes after the lictor.


DP summons another unit of plague drones.

Daemons Summoned: 608-pts

The GUO's get off both Endurance and Warp Speed.

So far in this game, my opponent has been super-hot with his psychic powers. I don't think he's failed to cast any of his powers at all! On the other hand, I can't stop any of his psychic powers and I am having most of my powers denied (or just straight failing to cast them). He definitely is dominating the Psychic phase.


Charges are made....


I make a mistake here. I thought that my dima could take out his GUO. What I didn't realize was that GUO's are Initiative 4 base. Add Warp Speed and now he is attacking at I7. The GUO insta-kills my dima before I can even swing.



Lictor and mawloc goes down as well.

Just like that, I am now down to rippers, the Deathleaper and tyrannocyte in his deployment zone only.




Tyranids 4

Spoiler:

Flyrant advances. Mawloc and Deathleaper go after the plague drones.


Flyrant shoots at the drones, taking out 1 and putting a couple of wounds on another.


The mawloc and Deathleaper both make fantastic charges (probably 8" and 9" charges).


I am able to wipe out his drones after Daemonic Instability.

We both get 1-VP this turn for killing an enemy unit. My opponent killed the dima, lictor and mawloc. I killed the plague drones.

Maelstrom VP's - Daemons: 5, Tyranids: 4




Daemons 5

Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:

Daemons:

2. Hold Your Objective 2.
3. Hold Your Opponent's Objective 1.

Tyranids:

4. Hold Your Opponent's Objective 2.
6. Destroy an enemy unit.


This will be the last game turn because the store is closing. (We only have about 5 min to play out the 2 player turns.)


DP swoops forwards.


Lone drone goes after my malanthrope.


His MC's go after my tyrannocyte. Fortunately, I anticipated this move and screened it out with my rippers.

I make another mistake. I forget that my spore could actually move, and so he has been in the same position all game, firing barbed stranglers at the immobilized soulgrinder.


DP summons some more plague drones, who then scatter near Objective #2.

Daemons Summoned: 734-pts


The KoS then summons some more daemonettes.

Daemons Summoned: 849-pts


Shooting by the DP (psychic), quad-guns and grinder take off another 2W from my Warlord. Fortunately, he passes his grounding test.


MC's wipe out the scarabs....the tyrannocyte lives!


Lone plague drone assaults the malan. Summoned plague drones do their jetbike jump move in Assault to double-contest the objective.


Daemonettes run but are still out of range of my Objective #1.


Malan then takes out his single plague drone in combat.




Tyranids 5

Spoiler:

Malan moves out of the way. Rippers then move and run to take Objective #2 away from the plague drones.


Flyrant lands and grabs another objective (along with Deathleaper).


Game ends.


My opponent fails to grab either of his Maelstrom objectives this turn. I take Objective #2 with my ObSec rippers. I also kill 1 unit (single plague drone).

Maelstrom VP's - Daemons: 5, Tyranids: 6

Thus, I take Secondary.


My opponent has 1 Big Gun objective, plus he killed 2 of my mawlocs for a total of 5 Primary points.




I grab 3 Big Gun objectives and I kill 1 soulgrinder for a total of 10 Primary points.

I win the Primary as well.

We both get Linebreaker (my tyrannocyte, his plague drones). I also get First Blood.

Tyranids take it 9-1.




Crushing Victory to Hive Fleet Pandora!!!





-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


POST-GAME ANALYSIS:

Spoiler:

So I only kill a soulgrinder and 1 unit of daemonettes from his original army. That's only about 260-pts of his original daemons killed. On top of that, he summoned 850-pts of daemons in what essentially turned out to be 2700-pts vs 1850-pts game. He killed about 1 flyrant, dimachaeon, 2 mawlocs, 4 lictors and 1 rippers. That's 965-pts of bugs killed. So how did I manage to pull it off?

1. My opponent was rusty and made too many little tactical errors, like forgetting to consolidate onto an objective after combat or not putting his units in positions to grab more objectives. Also, another mistake was assaulting me with weakened units when one of my Maelstrom objectives was to kill a unit.

2. My overall tactic of trying to keep him contained in his own deployment zone worked like a charm. I actually have to give credit to the dimachaeron for that. He was so intimidating in our last game together that it forced my opponent to play rather defensively, keeping his monsters in terrain to protect against my assault. Also, on the turn he came in, I forced my opponent to cast psychic buffs on his GUO's instead of summoning. Had he summoned even 1 more unit there, it might have made a difference in the final result of the game. So while my dimachaeron failed offensively in this game, he still made quite a huge impact on the game.


My opponent did do one thing very well in this game. For a semi-summoning army with only 2 guys doing all the summoning, he was summoning like a madman. I've never seen daemon summoning like this before. I swear, he made every single Summoning attempt and I failed every single denial attempt. The way he was rolling, I should not have won this game.

As to how my Deathleaper Assassin Brood (DLAB) did, it performed just as I expected. No, it actually performed a little better than I expected. Offensively, I really wasn't expecting much from my lictors. However, they did manage to beat off a few drones, immobilize a soulgrinder (not that it mattered since I was planning to charge it anyways) and grab a couple of objective points. Of course they also gave out a few objectives points as well (when my opponent got the Kill a Unit Maelstrom objectives), but overall, they achieved their goal. What was their goal? To draw fire/offense from my opponent and to control my opponent's Movement.




This message was edited 14 times. Last update was at 2014/11/13 20:44:42



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
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Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






Very interesting matchup. On the one hand I do like your list, but on the other hand a "pop up in your face" approach isn't the ideal way to take out GUOs... I'll still vote Tyranids, but I'm willing to bet this isn't the ideal showoff for the Tyrannocytes transport ability as I wouldn't want my big MC right in front of all that ID on the GUOs. But, with so many units including Mawlocs coming in, I could see you distracting and blocking the GUOs enough to prevent them from charging you... as long as you remember not to scatter Lictors and play it smart I can see it working though.

One question on the list, do you see this as more of a "transition" list into the new units by not taking too many of them? Personally I see myself taking anywhere from 2-4 pods as part of a solid effort to wreck a backfield turn 2, with at least one Strangler Pod just to mess with Hordes.


 
   
Made in us
Implacable Black Templar Initiate




Central Illinois

Summoning armies can be deceptively mobile with the 12 inch range on summon or pinpoint with cursed earth/banners. Incursion like you said gives some great mobile units with speed that actually hit pretty hard in combat as well. I am curious to see what units he summons and how you are able to react to those. The mission will be key.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can you chain summon? I cannot remember if horrors when they are summoned can summon as well that same turn? They can get the primaris from malefic.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/12 13:32:32


Words of wisdom by Prophet40k

That game put my faith in Khorne to the test. My table-neighbor looked at the match up and said "Here you're going to need these more than I will" and handed me a bag of Jello shots. They must have pleased Khorne because I walked out 11-2.


Now looking at another list with MORE tyrants and MORE mawlocks, I said to myself. "Oh well looks like it's time for another beer. It'll take the sting out of this. LOL"  
   
Made in gb
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander






London

I'm curious as to the advantages of taking Lictors en-mass. While you said yourself that it's not the most competitive list, Lictors have always been a bit underwhelming in my view. It's a nifty trick to DS without scatter behing enemy lines, but they seem pretty flimsy, and with the exception of Deathleaper's always Snap Firing at me rule, they don't look like they'll be able to weather a turn of enemy shooting before they can get properly into the fight.

   
Made in gb
Infiltrating Broodlord




UK

 Valkyrie wrote:
I'm curious as to the advantages of taking Lictors en-mass. While you said yourself that it's not the most competitive list, Lictors have always been a bit underwhelming in my view. It's a nifty trick to DS without scatter behing enemy lines, but they seem pretty flimsy, and with the exception of Deathleaper's always Snap Firing at me rule, they don't look like they'll be able to weather a turn of enemy shooting before they can get properly into the fight.


All lictors should have the snap fire rule only rule. Corrr. could you imagine...
   
Made in us
Implacable Black Templar Initiate




Central Illinois

 Valkyrie wrote:
I'm curious as to the advantages of taking Lictors en-mass. While you said yourself that it's not the most competitive list, Lictors have always been a bit underwhelming in my view. It's a nifty trick to DS without scatter behing enemy lines, but they seem pretty flimsy, and with the exception of Deathleaper's always Snap Firing at me rule, they don't look like they'll be able to weather a turn of enemy shooting before they can get properly into the fight.


They do not have to survive long in a maelstrom mission. With their no scatter rule they can steal/contest objectives. If you are shooting at a lictor for a turn then that is something not shooting at the flyrants, demi, etc. They are annoying...yes they die but with good obj placement you could contest from terrain and increase their save.

Words of wisdom by Prophet40k

That game put my faith in Khorne to the test. My table-neighbor looked at the match up and said "Here you're going to need these more than I will" and handed me a bag of Jello shots. They must have pleased Khorne because I walked out 11-2.


Now looking at another list with MORE tyrants and MORE mawlocks, I said to myself. "Oh well looks like it's time for another beer. It'll take the sting out of this. LOL"  
   
Made in gb
Infiltrating Broodlord




UK

 NightWrench wrote:
 Valkyrie wrote:
I'm curious as to the advantages of taking Lictors en-mass. While you said yourself that it's not the most competitive list, Lictors have always been a bit underwhelming in my view. It's a nifty trick to DS without scatter behing enemy lines, but they seem pretty flimsy, and with the exception of Deathleaper's always Snap Firing at me rule, they don't look like they'll be able to weather a turn of enemy shooting before they can get properly into the fight.


They do not have to survive long in a maelstrom mission. With their no scatter rule they can steal/contest objectives. If you are shooting at a lictor for a turn then that is something not shooting at the flyrants, demi, etc. They are annoying...yes they die but with good obj placement you could contest from terrain and increase their save.


Yeah but then if you are playing kill points you're going to be at a loss.

The Assasin brood, safe to say is for maelstrom missions only.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 jifel wrote:
Very interesting matchup. On the one hand I do like your list, but on the other hand a "pop up in your face" approach isn't the ideal way to take out GUOs... I'll still vote Tyranids, but I'm willing to bet this isn't the ideal showoff for the Tyrannocytes transport ability as I wouldn't want my big MC right in front of all that ID on the GUOs. But, with so many units including Mawlocs coming in, I could see you distracting and blocking the GUOs enough to prevent them from charging you... as long as you remember not to scatter Lictors and play it smart I can see it working though.

One question on the list, do you see this as more of a "transition" list into the new units by not taking too many of them? Personally I see myself taking anywhere from 2-4 pods as part of a solid effort to wreck a backfield turn 2, with at least one Strangler Pod just to mess with Hordes.

It would have been ok to bring a dima in a pod had my opponent not taken Baleswords, but he's learned from his game against me (ironically, after I told him that he should take baleswords against my dima). One thing to my advantage though, he's probably going to keep his GUO in terrain and let my dima assault him at I1. I think I can probably use that against him to "contain" him in his own deployment zone.

This type of list - the Assassin's Deathleaper Brood - probably doesn't need all those drop pods. That's because the formation itself costs 380-pts. Then you've got your dual flyrants and triple mawlocs which would go really well with the list. You won't have that many points left-overs for creatures in pods. You will probably be able to affort 2 units in pods at most after that (at the 1850 level) unless you sacrifice one of those mawlocs.


 NightWrench wrote:
Summoning armies can be deceptively mobile with the 12 inch range on summon or pinpoint with cursed earth/banners. Incursion like you said gives some great mobile units with speed that actually hit pretty hard in combat as well. I am curious to see what units he summons and how you are able to react to those. The mission will be key.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can you chain summon? I cannot remember if horrors when they are summoned can summon as well that same turn? They can get the primaris from malefic.

Yeah, Summoning armies definitely have decent range, especially if you bring in fast units like daemonettes or seekers (not to mention the units he can bring in with Incursion). I'm going to have to pick off the stragglers with my flyrants or hope that they go back towards his deployment zone to deal with the threats that I am going to throw down over there. Ironically, I play Daemons as well, and while I have summoned units before, I don't actually play a summoning army. But just the few units that I do summon in really helps.

No, you cannot chain summon. So horrors need to wait one turn after coming in before they can start summoning themselves.


 Valkyrie wrote:
I'm curious as to the advantages of taking Lictors en-mass. While you said yourself that it's not the most competitive list, Lictors have always been a bit underwhelming in my view. It's a nifty trick to DS without scatter behing enemy lines, but they seem pretty flimsy, and with the exception of Deathleaper's always Snap Firing at me rule, they don't look like they'll be able to weather a turn of enemy shooting before they can get properly into the fight.

They can fight against MSU units, but against anything stronger than that, they won't contribute much offensively. However, they still require the enemy's resources to deal with, and any resource directed at them is resources not used against the rest of the army. Normally, I used them to control the Movement of my opponent's units, mainly to direct my opponent's units to where I want them. You'd be surprise at the power of positioning in this game. It is often neglected due to the emphasis on Shooting and Assault, but it's won me just as many games as the other 2 (and maybe more).


 Wilson wrote:
 Valkyrie wrote:
I'm curious as to the advantages of taking Lictors en-mass. While you said yourself that it's not the most competitive list, Lictors have always been a bit underwhelming in my view. It's a nifty trick to DS without scatter behing enemy lines, but they seem pretty flimsy, and with the exception of Deathleaper's always Snap Firing at me rule, they don't look like they'll be able to weather a turn of enemy shooting before they can get properly into the fight.


All lictors should have the snap fire rule only rule. Corrr. could you imagine...

That would actually make them really good, probably too good for their price. I'd imagine a lictor with this rule will probably be in the 70-80-pt range.


 NightWrench wrote:
 Valkyrie wrote:
I'm curious as to the advantages of taking Lictors en-mass. While you said yourself that it's not the most competitive list, Lictors have always been a bit underwhelming in my view. It's a nifty trick to DS without scatter behing enemy lines, but they seem pretty flimsy, and with the exception of Deathleaper's always Snap Firing at me rule, they don't look like they'll be able to weather a turn of enemy shooting before they can get properly into the fight.


They do not have to survive long in a maelstrom mission. With their no scatter rule they can steal/contest objectives. If you are shooting at a lictor for a turn then that is something not shooting at the flyrants, demi, etc. They are annoying...yes they die but with good obj placement you could contest from terrain and increase their save.

Correct. If played correctly, they really cannot be ignored and thus, they will force your opponents to deal with them.


 Wilson wrote:
 NightWrench wrote:
 Valkyrie wrote:
I'm curious as to the advantages of taking Lictors en-mass. While you said yourself that it's not the most competitive list, Lictors have always been a bit underwhelming in my view. It's a nifty trick to DS without scatter behing enemy lines, but they seem pretty flimsy, and with the exception of Deathleaper's always Snap Firing at me rule, they don't look like they'll be able to weather a turn of enemy shooting before they can get properly into the fight.


They do not have to survive long in a maelstrom mission. With their no scatter rule they can steal/contest objectives. If you are shooting at a lictor for a turn then that is something not shooting at the flyrants, demi, etc. They are annoying...yes they die but with good obj placement you could contest from terrain and increase their save.


Yeah but then if you are playing kill points you're going to be at a loss.

The Assasin brood, safe to say is for maelstrom missions only.

Fortunately, at least in my meta and actually, most larger tournaments in the US, we don't really play kill points anymore. Rather, usually KP's (or VP's) are incorporated as part of the Secondary objectives. That is why MSU is becoming popular again. Rarely are there straight KP missions and in the case that there are, it is usually only 1 in 6.

BTW, the assassin's brood is good for both Maelstrom and Eternal War missions. After all, in Eternal War missions, you know that objective the lictor is on is going to count at the end of the game and thus, you have to use your resources to take him out.


This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/11/12 17:38:08



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Tau will shred Lictors therefore I don't seem that as very reliable. Tau are still up there in a big way.

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 Dozer Blades wrote:
Tau will shred Lictors therefore I don't seem that as very reliable. Tau are still up there in a big way.

Against Tau, you kinda have to hide your lictors. Just make sure you place objectives near BLOS terrain where you can hide them.

Also, if he's firing at your lictors, then he isn't firing at your flyrants or other higher priority targets.




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What a great sales device summoning has been for GW.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/13 05:43:16


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It sure is. I'm against it. Some things should remain unique to an army, but whatever.




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 jy2 wrote:
It sure is. I'm against it. Some things should remain unique to an army, but whatever.




I strongly agree with that, man. I do like demons and they synergise well with Tyranids particularly but yeah, I don't like the summoning aspect of 7th. It's time consuming and silly to exceed the pts limit agreed. It takes away from a fair fight.


As for the game- always a pleasure to read. Looking forward to see if you can bring it back or not!
   
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Battle report completed.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Wilson wrote:
 jy2 wrote:
It sure is. I'm against it. Some things should remain unique to an army, but whatever.




I strongly agree with that, man. I do like demons and they synergise well with Tyranids particularly but yeah, I don't like the summoning aspect of 7th. It's time consuming and silly to exceed the pts limit agreed. It takes away from a fair fight.


As for the game- always a pleasure to read. Looking forward to see if you can bring it back or not!

Everyone with psykers in their army can do it....except nids. WHHHHYYYYYYYYY?!? Bugs should be able to "summon" more bugs (as one of their psychic powers).


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/13 20:48:24



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It would make no sense from a background PoV.

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The background/fluff can change. GW's done it before and they will continue doing so in the future. I mean, before, no one could summon daemons. Now all of a sudden, almost everyone can?

Besides, we've got 1 bug who can "summon" other bugs and that is the tervigon. Only instead of calling it "summoning", we can just call it "spawning" other bugs.




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Necrons and Tau can't - it's not a big deal.

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Well, necrons can generate scarabs and ghost arks can regenerate warriors. You know what? It'll be cool if there was a special monolith that just spits out warriors, teleporting them from deep within the tomb world. So instead of its particle whip, let's say it generates D6 warriors each turn at the expense of shooting and if you roll a '1', some type of inteference occurs which jams up the lololith and stops it from producing. That'll be pretty cool.

As for Tau, they can just ally in Eldar or Space Marines, who can do the summoning for them.




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I have a lot of friends who play Nidz because they want to field a pure army and show people what they can do - I respect them for that too .

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To me, the point isn't whether one wants to run a pure army or not. Personally, I much prefer running homogenous armies as well with no allies. My point is that Tyranids are constantly getting shafted. Up until recently (before the slew of new kits coming out for them), why must bugs always be at an inherent disadvantage just because of "background" and gak. Whereas everyone was getting allies last edition, we were the only race who couldn't. This edition is a slight improvement, though we have the worst ally matrix of all the races (only Come the Apoc allies). And while everyone can roll on the standard psychic charts, why are we the only psychic race who can't. Now every other psykers (except grey knights) can summon daemons. Why are Tyranids shafted in this regard again? It's a matter of fairness and it's like Tyranids are always getting the proverbial shaft.

In any case, while I don't think it is fair, I still love my bugs and will play them no matter how good or bad they become. Sorry for the mini-rant.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/14 00:09:08



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Historically NIDZ couid never ally so being able to take a knight is pretty huge. While I have not always adhered to background when designing armies those that do are always my favorites. Imo nidz should be pure. It's just an opinion though.

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Interesting battle report. I definitely learnt something reading this one... don't take your eye off the actual mission and objectives. Reading through it with all the summoned units and the amount you lost, I'd assumed you had lost the battle, but it was a crushing victory to Tyranids.

So thanks for sharing your games and experience with us new/inexperienced players

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 Dozer Blades wrote:
Historically NIDZ couid never ally so being able to take a knight is pretty huge. While I have not always adhered to background when designing armies those that do are always my favorites. Imo nidz should be pure. It's just an opinion though.

Well, there is a background justification for a Knight ally, as the Tyranids once infested and subverted a Warlord Titan.
   
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It's not a strong case though, I'm sure you'll agree.

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 Dozer Blades wrote:
It's not a strong case though, I'm sure you'll agree.

Genestealer cults. Tyranids have infiltrated and subverted the ranks of the Imperial Guards before. They've even infiltrated into ork society with genestealers cults. If that isn't background justification for Tyranid allies, then I don't know what is.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mad.. wrote:
Interesting battle report. I definitely learnt something reading this one... don't take your eye off the actual mission and objectives. Reading through it with all the summoned units and the amount you lost, I'd assumed you had lost the battle, but it was a crushing victory to Tyranids.

So thanks for sharing your games and experience with us new/inexperienced players

Yeah, always keep your eyes on the ball.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/14 08:00:44



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Nicely done.

I think you're right; the assassin brood is superb for Maelstrom missions - that many lictors able to pop up and yell "Yoink!" at a critical moment can really swing a game - especially if you get a valuable-but-needs-multiple-objectives card at the right moment.

The fact that they can go to ground is very useful, as is the ability to hide solo models.

Finally, don't underestimate their Paranoia and Ill Discipline rule - especially if combined with It's After Me and The Shadow In The Warp - that's a potential stack of -(D3+4) to the Leadership of something like a daemon prince or greater daemon - which makes Psychic Scream seriously concerning!




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I haven't seen one Nid army with a knight include any genestealers. You can do it but it's not fluffy - it's power gaming.

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locarno24 wrote:
Nicely done.

I think you're right; the assassin brood is superb for Maelstrom missions - that many lictors able to pop up and yell "Yoink!" at a critical moment can really swing a game - especially if you get a valuable-but-needs-multiple-objectives card at the right moment.

The fact that they can go to ground is very useful, as is the ability to hide solo models.

Finally, don't underestimate their Paranoia and Ill Discipline rule - especially if combined with It's After Me and The Shadow In The Warp - that's a potential stack of -(D3+4) to the Leadership of something like a daemon prince or greater daemon - which makes Psychic Scream seriously concerning!




It'll work for both Maelstrom and Eternal War missions IMO. Better yet, it works best in a hybrid EW/Maelstrom scenario like the BAO.

Too bad I didn't get Scream for this game. It would have been fun.....that is, if I could get pass all the Deny dice my opponent had.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dozer Blades wrote:
I haven't seen one Nid army with a knight include any genestealers. You can do it but it's not fluffy - it's power gaming.

Screw the Imperial Knight! I want to ally in a Reaver and put him in a spore!

While I would like bugs to be on an even playing field by being able to ally with some armies, that doesn't necessarily mean that they should be able to ally with all armies.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/14 17:27:56



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Very impressive, as usual I learnt a lot of your report (sacrificing a 200-pts MC to keep your opponent's army in its DZ, screening a unit with another to prevent the first one to be assaultzd, etc...).
I didn't understand why you prefered the rippers to be killed than the tyrannocyte, could you explain?

Thx for sharing.
   
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 jackyratos wrote:
Very impressive, as usual I learnt a lot of your report (sacrificing a 200-pts MC to keep your opponent's army in its DZ, screening a unit with another to prevent the first one to be assaultzd, etc...).
I didn't understand why you prefered the rippers to be killed than the tyrannocyte, could you explain?

Thx for sharing.

The tyrannocyte is a heavy support and thus, worth 1-VP in the Big Guns mission. He already killed 2 heavy supports (2 mawlocs). Killing one more will give him the equivalent of 1 free objective (which is worth 3-pts).




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