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2014/11/14 11:11:48
Subject: 1750 Fun-crons Necrons vs Mechdar Eldar (Completed)
I played against John (aka Extremefreak17 here on dakka) and his mechdar. This is the first time meeting and playing against him, so I decided not to bring something that was too hardcore. BTW, I didn't know what army John was bringing. It turned out to be mechdar and we ended up playing a pure Maelstrom scenario. Yeesh, that's not good. Mechdar is one of the best armies around, especially in pure Maelstrom missions. Sure, Necrons can match Eldar because we've got just as much mobility. However, we don't have nearly as many Objective Secured (ObSec) units and I wasn't bringing my highly-optimized, competitive Necrons. Therefore, this is probably going to be a really challenging matchup. BTW, John brought his Eldar to the Bay Area Open GT 2014 and he ended up placing 19th Overall there (out of about 120 players), actually doing better than me! He was probably the 3rd Best Eldar player at the BAO.
While I am glad he isn't running wraithknights, his list is still problematic for me to deal with. Why?
1. Objective Secured. He's got a ton of ObSec units in very durable transports. My troops, on the other hand, don't score unless they disembark from their flyers, and when they do, they are quite squishy.
2. High mobility. His army is super-fast. All of his skimmers can move up to 30", his Warlord can move 48" and his hornets - get this - they can move 30" and STILL snapfire! In addition, he can outflank with his hornets, thus giving him even more flexibility in regards to how he can play his army.
3. He's got the Volume-of-fire (VoF) to hurt many of my units, including my wraithstar and my troops.
4. Brightlances don't care about my AV13/14 tanks.
5. He is going 1st, which means he will get a head-start on the Maelstrom objectives as well as the alpha-strike against me.
6. Psychic powers. I believe his Farseer got Shrouding, which means that all serpents nearby will be getting 2+ jink cover.
However, my army isn't entirely powerless against his. Why will I potentially give him problems?
1. He has no answer for my bargelord (Overlord on command barge). Wraithknights are the only units that will potentially give my Overlord problems. My opponent didn't bring any.
2. Assault. I am very dangerous in assault. Thus, my units are great DENIAL units. Want my objective? Have fun trying to survive while holding it with my assault units there. I guarantee you they will die after moving there.
3. Mobility. I've got mobility of my own. While my crons aren't quite as fast as my opponent's mechdar, what I do have is deceptive speed. I can get to any objective whenever I want to. The only question is if there will be an enemy ObSec unit there to contest or not.
4. The element of surprise. My army has deceptive chemistry that is not readily apparent to the casual observer. Most of the time, I can catch my opponent unawares and really make it tough for him with how well I play my Necrons. If he is not fully focused on my army and what it can do, he just may find himself behind in points and having to play catch-up. Finally, I am a mechdar player as well and know all the strengths and weaknesses of his army. I don't think I can say the same for him with regards to my army.
5. My generalship/experience. While I don't really know how good my opponent is skill-wise, I know that I am pretty proficient with my necrons. Also, from talking to him, he doesn't really go to many tournaments nor has he played a lot in 7th edition. Thus, I think it is safe to assume that I've got the experience edge over my opponent. On the other hand, he is running a very, very good Forgeworld unit so I better assume that he is proficient with his army as well.
Sorry, but I don't quite remember the Warlord Traits nor the psychic powers in this game. I think John's farseer got Shrouding, but I don't know what the rest of his powers were.
It is Night.
Except for the Crimson Hunter, everything deploys on the table.
My deployment. Flyers in mandatory reserves. My immortlas with veil-tek hide in the LOS-blocking ruins.
I deploy my annihilation barge (AB) to the right.
As this was the Maelstrom scenario with the face-down, hidden Maelstrom objectives, I don't actually know which objectives my opponent got and which he discarded. I also don't remember my hidden objectives as well as the discarded ones. The only notes I have are of the objectives revealed, so I will mention the objectives only when we score them.
His shooting does absolutely nothing, partially because he's only got my monolith or AB to shoot at.
When he reveals his objectives, I am surprised. It wasn't Objective #2 that he needed. Rather, he needed to get 1 unit within my deployment zone (the black serpent).
VP's - Eldar: 1, Necrons: 0
Necrons 1
Spoiler:
My army advances. Damn, the monolith sure is slow. I can't even use it as mobile BLOS (blocking line-of-sight) cover for my wraiths.
I leave my veil-immortals behind the BLOS ruins.
I then fire my AB at his serpent. Despite 2+ cover due to Night-fight and holo-fields, I manage to pen and immobilize it.
But no First Blood.
Wraithstar then runs.
Finally, my barge-lord turbo-boosts on Objective #3.
I then reveal my objectives. I needed Objective #3 (bargelord) and Objective #6 (probably either my immortals or the monolith was on it).
VP's - Eldar: 1, Necrons: 2
Eldar 2
Spoiler:
Eldar back up.
Tactical Note - I've seen this way too often. DO NOT back up/castle up when playing against a board control army like my crons (or any other aggressive armies). That is exactly what I want you to do. Now not only are you trapped, but I will gain control of the objectives as well.
My opponent manages to take off 1W (or 1 HP?) from my bargelord, probably with his hornets.
Wave serpent shooting takes out 1 wraith and puts 1W on my D-lord.
Finally, he manages to glance my AB once.
To my surprise, my opponent does not reveal any of his Maelstrom objectives, meaning he didn't achieve any of it. That probably meant that he had to kill a unit as his objective(s). In any case, I wasn't complaining.
VP's - Eldar: 1, Necrons: 2
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
Doom scythe and my Warrior flyer come in.
I continue to apply the pressure.
Gosh, the monolith is just sooooo slow. I might have to drop it in the future for something a little more mobile.
I wreck the immobilized serpent.
I also get First Blood and a Maelstrom objective for killing an enemy unit.
VP's - Eldar: 1, Necrons: 4
Other shooting (either my mono or the AB) takes off 1HP from another serpent.
I then kill 3 dire avengers with the rest of my shooting.
They then fall back.
Wraiths run. Bargelord turbo-boosts.
I then reveal my other Maelstrom objective, which was to take Objective #2 which I get (don't remember which unit, but I have my immortals, monolith and bargelord on objectives).
VP's - Eldar: 1, Necrons: 5
Eldar 3
Spoiler:
Things aren't going so well for my Eldar friend. Perhaps he's just not getting the right cards for his Maelstrom objectives, but he needs to start focusing on getting them.
His flyer comes in.
Avengers regroup.
One of his serpents (the black one) aggressively advances. It later moves flat-out pass my monolith.
Hornets back away from my assault units.
He turbo-boosts his farseer 48" and away from my forces (to the opposite corner). He needs to reach an objective there but is just shy about 1".
Hornets then go flat-out and target my flyers.
Shooting takes down my doom scythe.
My opponent actually gets 1 of his Maelstrom objectives here for killing an enemy vehicle.
VP's - Eldar: 2, Necrons: 5
Also, he is holding Objective #6 with his ObSec black serpent (the one which moved very aggressively towards my monolith).
VP's - Eldar: 3, Necrons: 5
Necrons 3
Spoiler:
Immortals come in and go after his flyer.
My flyer drops off its warriors before flying off the table. AB go after the hornets.
D-lord splits off from the wraiths. He and the bargelord continue to advance.
Wraiths move in the opposite direction and towards the Warlord farseer (the Warlord is still alive, he just fell down because the model is on a slope).
The monolith then rams the serpent from the rear (where its serpent shield does not protect it) and shakes it.
I shoot down the Crimson Hunter and score 1-VP for killing an enemy flyer.
VP's - Eldar: 3, Necrons: 6
However, after firing 10 gauss shots, 4 haywire shots and my AB, I only manage to do a total of 1HP of damage to his hornets.
I also kill another 1 dire avenger (maybe from tesla arcing? Can't remember.).
Wraiths make a 7" charge against his farseer....
....and kill him, thus giving me Slay the Warlord.
VP's - Eldar: 3, Necrons: 7
Wraiths then consolidate out. Thanks to the combat, I was able to grab Objective #3, which was one of my Maelstrom objectives.
VP's - Eldar: 3, Necrons: 8
Bargelord assaults the serpent (I might have stunned it last turn)....
....and take it out.
At the end of the turn, I flip up my last objective, which I also manage to get - Objectives #1.
VP's - Eldar: 3, Necrons: 9
The game is all but over at this point. I am just too far ahead.
Eldar 4
Spoiler:
Serpent moves into terran and his guys disembark.
Hornets skirt around my AB.
I avenger goes to hide on Objective #2.
Wraithguards go after my D-lord....
....and distort him to death.
Hornets then move flat-out and fire at my flyer, but to no avail.
Unfortunately for my opponent, my D-lord gets back up.
My opponent only reveals 1 objective this turn - Objective #6 claimed by his ObSec avengers over my monolith.
VP's - Eldar: 4, Necrons: 9
Necrons 4
Spoiler:
I plan to take down his wraithguards this turn.
Sweep attacks from my bargelord kills the spiritseer (or was it a warlock only?).
Warriors move to grab Objective #2 and AB goes after the hornets.
Warriors shoot down his lone dire avenger there.
I actually get 2 VP's here - 1 for shooting down an enemy unit and another 1 for grabbing Objective #2.
VP's - Eldar: 4, Necrons: 11
Immortals finally come out to play.
They shoot down all but 1 of the dire avengers (because I couldn't see him to allocate a wound on him).
The avenger then falls back for the rest of the game.
Shooting does another 1HP to a hornet.
Barge charges in first and goes down to his Wall of Death Overwatch fire. The D-lord then charges right in afterwards.
I only kill 1 and my bargelord doesn't get back up.
Eldar 5
Spoiler:
The last hurrah!
The indestructible hornets move.
Serpent comes down from the tower and his guys disembark. They would later run to grab Objective #1, which is what my opponent needed.
VP's - Eldar: 5, Necrons: 11
Serpent moves up on top of the ruins.
Shooting by serpents kill 2 wraiths.
I kill another wraithguard in combat.
Necrons 5
Spoiler:
This turn, I get Objective #4 twice. Thus, I just leave my wraiths there.
VP's - Eldar: 5, Necrons: 13
I cannot finish off his hornets, managing only to kill 1.
I also finish off the serpent on top of my ruins with tesla to the rear by a night scythe coming in from Ongoing reserves.
Surprising, the wraithguards actually finish off my D-lord in combat, giving him my Warlord.
VP's - Eldar: 6, Necrons: 13
We stop at this point. There was no need to go on.
Crushing Victory to the Metallic Dead - Necrons!!!
I'm actually surprised at the result of this game. I honestly thought it would be closer. I've tried playing Eldar in a Maelstrom mission before this (and I wasn't even running mechdar!) and they just dominated in Maelstrom missions. So this is why I think my opponent lost:
1. He didn't get the right Maelstrom objective cards. He didn't reveal a lot of his objectives so I am figuring that he probably got a lot of junk cards (like trying to kill one of my units in assault or something like that).
2. He had some sub-par dice rolling. Although he was rolling hot for his hornets, he was rolling below-average for his serpents and probably for their shooting as well.
3. His army just didn't have enough firepower to handle heavy armor. Other than pulsars on his hornets and brightlances on his flyer (and probably distort on the wraithguards), he just couldn't deal with my AV13 vehicles efficiently.
4. This is probably his biggest mistake and it was more of a tactical mistake. He let me box his army in and control the Movement phase. And while he did have the mobility to break out of my trap, I had the advantage because my assault units were already on the objectives and were daring his units to come towards me.
Anyways, this was a good game despite the beating my opponent took. We both gained from this game. I came out of it with more confidence in my Necrons. And I hope that my opponent was able to use whatever he learned from this game to help his game at the Bay Area Open. I hope it did, as he did very well there, placing 19th overall.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2014/11/15 20:03:30
Necrons are Eldars worst match up I believe. Have gone to 2 tournaments with my Crons and the BargeLord destroys Wave Serpents. They cant hurt him and he can catch them easily.
I think you will win this. Dont see him able to deal with you especially if you focus the right units.
It can go both ways. Personally, I've had success with my competitive necrons against Eldar. I've also had problems against them as well, especially with a wraithknight heavy build or with the seer council. And while bargelords are tough for Eldar to deal with, he's only got to deal with 1 here. How he can play against it is to spread out so that I can't go and kill a serpent each and every turn. Also, his army has got the speed to try to get to the rear of my bargelords, which is much better than what most other armies can do.
You do realize that just because a list doesn't spam the same 3 units it doesn't automatically become casual right?
I really don't see how that necron list would be considered casual based on the list alone Every unit in that list is extremely good. Even the monolith is good in 7th now that it scores and is large enough to basically be obsec if it centers on an objective, while the damage chart changed making it insanely durable.
Casual is primarily player attitude.
Sorry for the tangent, it just bothers me a bit when people falsely categorize lists like a disclaimer. I see a balanced list there that has a tool to handle every threat.
It also is unfair to your opponent to suggest he can't handle your "best." If he wins, it was against your "casual" (though not really) list. If he loses, all the more credit to you and slap in the chin to him
I bet you can do some amazing things with that Necron list and suffer from less hard counters.
I probably am sounding more douche like then I am intending, so I'll appologize up front as I am writing this in haste before I rush to work.
TLR your a very good player, and that is a very strong necron list despite not spamming the 3 same units the internet loves more then all others. I wouldn't sully a match by starting off saying it was a goof off army list.
Good luck to Extrmemfreak! I am sure he'll need it
Red Corsair wrote: You do realize that just because a list doesn't spam the same 3 units it doesn't automatically become casual right?
I really don't see how that necron list would be considered casual based on the list alone Every unit in that list is extremely good. Even the monolith is good in 7th now that it scores and is large enough to basically be obsec if it centers on an objective, while the damage chart changed making it insanely durable.
Casual is primarily player attitude.
Sorry for the tangent, it just bothers me a bit when people falsely categorize lists like a disclaimer. I see a balanced list there that has a tool to handle every threat.
It also is unfair to your opponent to suggest he can't handle your "best." If he wins, it was against your "casual" (though not really) list. If he loses, all the more credit to you and slap in the chin to him
I bet you can do some amazing things with that Necron list and suffer from less hard counters.
I probably am sounding more douche like then I am intending, so I'll appologize up front as I am writing this in haste before I rush to work.
TLR your a very good player, and that is a very strong necron list despite not spamming the 3 same units the internet loves more then all others. I wouldn't sully a match by starting off saying it was a goof off army list.
Good luck to Extrmemfreak! I am sure he'll need it
I guess it is a matter of subjectivity. My Fun-crons is not a weak list per se. It is a TAC list that has the tools that handles most armies and I am at a skill level where I can make it work. However, it is an army that requires more strategic and tactical thinking compared to my more competitive list, and games against it tend to be closer than if I were to run my more competitive list.
BTW, this is my competitive, tournament Necron list. Compared to that, you will see what I mean when I call my Fun-crons my "casual" list.
jy2 wrote: I guess it is a matter of subjectivity. My Fun-crons is not a weak list per se. It is a TAC list that has the tools that handles most armies and I am at a skill level where I can make it work. However, it is an army that requires more strategic and tactical thinking compared to my more competitive list, and games against it tend to be closer than if I were to run my more competitive list.
BTW, this is my competitive, tournament Necron list. Compared to that, you will see what I mean when I call my Fun-crons my "casual" list.
See I actually have to disagree. Your competitive version is just spam. Spam is good because it lets you go on auto pilot and run through the motions not considering force allocation. When you draw opponents ill equipped to face you, you stomp them. Which personally IMHO makes for a crappy game, even competitively I don't enjoy seal clubbing.
The bad? As soon as you draw a harder list with another smart opponent you hit a wall and the game comes down to dice. It makes it MUCH easier on your opponent because he only needs strategies to counter a few unit types.
When you bring a more rounded list like you have here, your opponent usually doesn't have the time in game or experience prior to deal with all the threats efficiently, especially when they combo off each other. Even if games take more thought on your own behalf you generally have a more fulfilling outcome and leave your opponent wondering what they could have done.
Lets put it this way. What about your first list in your opinion makes it casual or as you imply noncompetitive? It literally doesn't field ANY of the truly bad Necron options.
jy2 wrote: I guess it is a matter of subjectivity. My Fun-crons is not a weak list per se. It is a TAC list that has the tools that handles most armies and I am at a skill level where I can make it work. However, it is an army that requires more strategic and tactical thinking compared to my more competitive list, and games against it tend to be closer than if I were to run my more competitive list.
BTW, this is my competitive, tournament Necron list. Compared to that, you will see what I mean when I call my Fun-crons my "casual" list.
See I actually have to disagree. Your competitive version is just spam. Spam is good because it lets you go on auto pilot and run through the motions not considering force allocation. When you draw opponents ill equipped to face you, you stomp them. Which personally IMHO makes for a crappy game, even competitively I don't enjoy seal clubbing.
The bad? As soon as you draw a harder list with another smart opponent you hit a wall and the game comes down to dice. It makes it MUCH easier on your opponent because he only needs strategies to counter a few unit types.
When you bring a more rounded list like you have here, your opponent usually doesn't have the time in game or experience prior to deal with all the threats efficiently, especially when they combo off each other. Even if games take more thought on your own behalf you generally have a more fulfilling outcome and leave your opponent wondering what they could have done.
Lets put it this way. What about your first list in your opinion makes it casual or as you imply noncompetitive? It literally doesn't field ANY of the truly bad Necron options.
jy2 wrote: I guess it is a matter of subjectivity. My Fun-crons is not a weak list per se. It is a TAC list that has the tools that handles most armies and I am at a skill level where I can make it work. However, it is an army that requires more strategic and tactical thinking compared to my more competitive list, and games against it tend to be closer than if I were to run my more competitive list.
BTW, this is my competitive, tournament Necron list. Compared to that, you will see what I mean when I call my Fun-crons my "casual" list.
See I actually have to disagree. Your competitive version is just spam. Spam is good because it lets you go on auto pilot and run through the motions not considering force allocation. When you draw opponents ill equipped to face you, you stomp them. Which personally IMHO makes for a crappy game, even competitively I don't enjoy seal clubbing.
The bad? As soon as you draw a harder list with another smart opponent you hit a wall and the game comes down to dice. It makes it MUCH easier on your opponent because he only needs strategies to counter a few unit types.
When you bring a more rounded list like you have here, your opponent usually doesn't have the time in game or experience prior to deal with all the threats efficiently, especially when they combo off each other. Even if games take more thought on your own behalf you generally have a more fulfilling outcome and leave your opponent wondering what they could have done.
Lets put it this way. What about your first list in your opinion makes it casual or as you imply noncompetitive? It literally doesn't field ANY of the truly bad Necron options.
One man's garbage is another man's treasure, or however that saying goes. Like I said, this is purely subjective. While you may think my list is too strong for other casual lists to go up against, I think my list just isn't strong enough compared the better, competitive tournament lists. That's where my standard is at. I compare my lists to the top tournament lists, not to Joe Newbie and his starter box army. But to each his own. You can refer to my list as a competitive non-spam Necron list if you'd like and I'll keep on referring to it as my "casual" list because it is not the type of list that will table you by Turns 3 or 4. It is also a much funner list for my opponent to play against than my list with 7 AV13 vehicles and 3 flyers. And don't mistake my "casual" list with a non-competitive list or, as you called it, a goofball list. Even with my casual lists, I play to win and my list will have all the tools to do so. It just won't overpower you (in most cases) like my competitive list will.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
extremefreak17 wrote: This was a very fun game for me! Glad to see the report go up!
Hey John.
Yeah, it was a fun game. Thanks for taking the time to meet with me for this game. I'll update your list a little later on when I start working on this report.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/15 04:37:49
To chime in quickly I must say I have sympathy for both sides argumented here. Like Red Corsair I immediatelly thought that JY2's list has nothing overly 'fun' about it. It is a able as the next tournament list and has the tools to take out all-commers including Knightspam, Deathstars and Serpents.
On the other had I do understand JY2 where he compares it to his more spammy list. That list drives the qualities of Necrons to an extreme. It deals with all the competative lists as well but in a more extreme nature leaving unprepared or more rounded and balanced lists at a big disadvantage. I do see why that would be an even more competitive list than the first.
That said, I strive to build competative lists that are more akin to the list JY2 brings this battlereport. I think a list like that can still compete just fine and even reach the top tables when pilotted by a fine general like JY2. Players like Blackmoor thought us that a long time ago. While competing, the games played will be much more fun however. Not only for the opponent but for the player himself as well I'd say. It would also seem more rewarding to me when a balanced list would beat all other top lists.
My current 1850 list looks like this:
Be'lakor
Sorcerer, ML3, SF 10 Cultists
10 Cultists
5 Spawn, MoN Maulerfiend
Maulerfiend, Lasher Tendrils
3 Obliterators, MoN HoT, ML3, Grimnoire
12 Pink Horrors
14 Fleshhounds
Soulgrinder, DoS
1850
I think that it's a well rounded and competative list. I'd love to bring it against the list played here by JY2, but I'd cringe to have to face his 'competitive' list.
Cilithan
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/15 09:13:30
Fiery the angels fell; deep thunder rolled around their shores; burning with the fires of Orc.
jy2 wrote: I guess it is a matter of subjectivity. My Fun-crons is not a weak list per se. It is a TAC list that has the tools that handles most armies and I am at a skill level where I can make it work. However, it is an army that requires more strategic and tactical thinking compared to my more competitive list, and games against it tend to be closer than if I were to run my more competitive list.
BTW, this is my competitive, tournament Necron list. Compared to that, you will see what I mean when I call my Fun-crons my "casual" list.
See I actually have to disagree. Your competitive version is just spam. Spam is good because it lets you go on auto pilot and run through the motions not considering force allocation. When you draw opponents ill equipped to face you, you stomp them. Which personally IMHO makes for a crappy game, even competitively I don't enjoy seal clubbing.
The bad? As soon as you draw a harder list with another smart opponent you hit a wall and the game comes down to dice. It makes it MUCH easier on your opponent because he only needs strategies to counter a few unit types.
When you bring a more rounded list like you have here, your opponent usually doesn't have the time in game or experience prior to deal with all the threats efficiently, especially when they combo off each other. Even if games take more thought on your own behalf you generally have a more fulfilling outcome and leave your opponent wondering what they could have done.
Lets put it this way. What about your first list in your opinion makes it casual or as you imply noncompetitive? It literally doesn't field ANY of the truly bad Necron options.
One man's garbage is another man's treasure, or however that saying goes. Like I said, this is purely subjective. While you may think my list is too strong for other casual lists to go up against, I think my list just isn't strong enough compared the better, competitive tournament lists. That's where my standard is at. I compare my lists to the top tournament lists, not to Joe Newbie and his starter box army. But to each his own. You can refer to my list as a competitive non-spam Necron list if you'd like and I'll keep on referring to it as my "casual" list because it is not the type of list that will table you by Turns 3 or 4. It is also a much funner list for my opponent to play against than my list with 7 AV13 vehicles and 3 flyers. And don't mistake my "casual" list with a non-competitive list or, as you called it, a goofball list. Even with my casual lists, I play to win and my list will have all the tools to do so. It just won't overpower you (in most cases) like my competitive list will.
The bold part I think is your ego I never suggested any list too much for anyone, actually that was something I pointed out as being insincere on your opponents behalf. The part where you set yourself out to be the better player no matter the outcome by stating (incorrectly) that your list is a list for fun and lacks teeth to be taken seriously for competitive play. Which as an aside are not mutually exclusive.
As for comparing a list to top competitive lists, again I have to call it out. Players win tournaments not lists. Sure a recent update and strong book help, but your not exactly playing sisters here are you? Have you played every top player and their current lists? Because otherwise your just looking at names with numbers on a screen and making educated guesses with incomplete data like missions, terrain etc. I mean look, a Sean Nayden recently won best general with 9 lictors, genestealers and spore mines. You post that list out of context a month ago and I guarantee you the talking heads on here bash it and label it noncompetitive.
But I think you definitely missed one of the bigger points I was making. I genuinely think it is unfair and insincere to set up a report where you suggest you pulled your punches in list construction. It basically makes your opponent look like a chump to be honest. Not good enough for a real match type of thing. It also changes the stakes where they can't really win and you can't lose. Maybe it isn't even your intention, it seems to be a trend though and thought I would politely point it out.
I hope this isn't seen as derailment. It gives some actual discussion with content beyond speculation in the absence of an actual report.
It's obvious that we are looking at casual-competitiveness here from 2 different perspectives and 2 different standards and will probably not agree.
I set up a game with John and didn't know whether he was a competitive player or more of a casual player. Therefore, I didn't want to bring my "beat-face" type of list because I don't want to be seen as a "WAAC"-type of player. Rather, I'd prefer to bring a more mild, yet strong, list where I feel that we both may have a more enjoyable experience. But believe me, once we play, I always play my best no matter what type of list I play. I don't pull any punches. To me, that is not looking down on a player or anything. And if I lose, then I won't make excuses - he was just the better player that day.
So let's just agree to disagree and I will get on with my report.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/15 16:19:14
Cilithan wrote: To chime in quickly I must say I have sympathy for both sides argumented here. Like Red Corsair I immediatelly thought that JY2's list has nothing overly 'fun' about it. It is a able as the next tournament list and has the tools to take out all-commers including Knightspam, Deathstars and Serpents.
On the other had I do understand JY2 where he compares it to his more spammy list. That list drives the qualities of Necrons to an extreme. It deals with all the competative lists as well but in a more extreme nature leaving unprepared or more rounded and balanced lists at a big disadvantage. I do see why that would be an even more competitive list than the first.
That said, I strive to build competative lists that are more akin to the list JY2 brings this battlereport. I think a list like that can still compete just fine and even reach the top tables when pilotted by a fine general like JY2. Players like Blackmoor thought us that a long time ago. While competing, the games played will be much more fun however. Not only for the opponent but for the player himself as well I'd say. It would also seem more rewarding to me when a balanced list would beat all other top lists.
My current 1850 list looks like this:
Be'lakor
Sorcerer, ML3, SF 10 Cultists
10 Cultists
5 Spawn, MoN Maulerfiend
Maulerfiend, Lasher Tendrils
3 Obliterators, MoN HoT, ML3, Grimnoire
12 Pink Horrors
14 Fleshhounds
Soulgrinder, DoS
1850
I think that it's a well rounded and competative list. I'd love to bring it against the list played here by JY2, but I'd cringe to have to face his 'competitive' list.
Cilithan
Thanks.
I actually have a frame of reference as to why I refer to my list as casual. I've played my "casual" Necrons against InControl's tournament Tyranid list - with triple flyrants and the Barbed Hierodule (he came in 2nd at Brawl in the Fall GT) - and got demolished by it. I then played my competitive Necron list against Reece's and Frankie's tournament lists (of course not all on the same day!) and demolished them. So oftentimes when we talk about the competitive nature of a list, it's all relative. It's just that I compare my "casual" list to the more highly-optimized tournament lists instead of to Joe Newbie who frequents the local GW store and is starting to build his forces.
But yeah, how well you do depends more on your skill than on your list. And it is more fulfilling to win with more "creative" lists that don't just rely on spamming some of the best units in the codex. But at higher level play, you will go up against very strong players who also bring very strong, highly-optimized lists. Now you may get lucky and beat them with a less-optimized list, but chances are, you won't.
BTW, nice Chaos list. I like it, though I'm somewhat sad to see the heldrake go.
jy2 said he didn't really know what to expect. He didn't make an underhanded comment in regards to his opponent nor the list.
Thanks.
I really didn't want to bring a beat-face list against an opponent I knew nothing about, only to see him possibly bring just a casual list. As a matter of fact, I'm glad he brought mechdar because it will really challenge me as a general bringing a non-cruise-control list.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/11/15 16:20:24
jy2 said he didn't really know what to expect. He didn't make an underhanded comment in regards to his opponent nor the list.
Did you even read the thread of discussion? Because really this statement makes no sense if you had.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @jy2- Fair enough. Like I said, not trying to offend you but I figured I'd point out the underlying message you put across, whether intentional or accidental.
When you set up a match stating your pulling your punches, your very much setting the table in your own favor regardless of outcome. Your a good player and a better story teller, it would make more sense to let the audience decide. Just IMHO.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/15 18:01:38
When you set up a match stating your pulling your punches, your very much setting the table in your own favor regardless of outcome. Your a good player and a better story teller, it would make more sense to let the audience decide. Just IMHO.
This is actually a writing tool I use sometimes to give my "stories" more character. Being purely neutral oftentimes make for somewhat boring reports. However, inject some emotion and personal perspective into it and it becomes a lot more fun and exciting to read. I try to be objective. At the same time, I oftentimes promote the player and the armies as well as to add my own personal opinions and sometimes, even prejudices or praises, to give my stories a little more dramatic flair. I think it keeps it more interesting. For example, I could have told the story like this:
"Today I faced Eldar. I brought Necrons. He was running mechdar. We played a Maelstrom mission."
But I think it becomes much more interesting if I was to pump it up somewhat like this:
"When I saw that I was going up against mechdar in Maelstrom missions, I almost flipped out! Holy cats! Mechdar is so good, especially in Maelstrom missions. And here I brought a more casual Necron list than what I normally run (at tournaments). I'm not sure how I'm going to play against them, but it's going to be a hell of a tough battle!"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/15 20:13:16
Every great storyteller (of contemporary events) has to have flair. Flair usually comes from ego. So sure, Jy2 may be flamboyant, but isn't that why we all love his batreps? That's nothing to be ashamed.
2014/11/16 02:26:39
Subject: 1750 Fun-crons Necrons vs Mechdar Eldar (Completed)
Opponent made a lot of bad decisions such as giving up the Farseer to the wraiths. I think serpent spam is losing strength in general too - good players such as yourself have solved it.
Araenion wrote: Every great storyteller (of contemporary events) has to have flair. Flair usually comes from ego. So sure, Jy2 may be flamboyant, but isn't that why we all love his batreps? That's nothing to be ashamed.
Thanks!
One of the inspirations for my storytelling PoV is actually from Catcher in the Rye. I try to tell the story as objectively as I can, that is, through my own biased eye. I guess that is one of the reasons that makes it so endearing for many (and potentially annoying for some). You're not just reading about a game and some dice rolls. You're reading about the trials and tribulations from the perspective of 1 gamer. It is always more interesting to hear about what a person thinks about the things going on around him than just to hear about the things going on around him.
Dozer Blades wrote: Opponent made a lot of bad decisions such as giving up the Farseer to the wraiths. I think serpent spam is losing strength in general too - good players such as yourself have solved it.
It was actually a good decision to split off the farseer. What was wrong was the timing. He should have started moving his farseer over a turn earlier. His farseer was about 4" short of an objective. Had he moved him sooner, he could have easier moved him 3" past the objective. That would have meant my wraiths would have had to travel an additional 7-8" to get to his farseer. It would have:
1. Got him his objective.
2. Achieved his goal of trying to split up my army.
3. His Warlord would have survived as he could have just turbo'd away next turn.
So the move was the right idea. The mistake was that his timing was off.
Serpent-spam actually has a weakness to super-fast and highly-durable armies. That is why you need wraithknights in there - as a counter-assault, board control presence who also acts as a protector for your serpents against the builds that give them the most problems.
Thanks. I was somewhat surprised by this game as well. I know that I can compete. I just thought it would be much closer. Maybe it was just the Maelstrom objectives/cards. Sometimes, they have a tendency to skew the results, especially when you don't get favorable objectives.
It was a poor decision - no objective claimed and he lost the Farseer to the Wraiths which should have never happened since he can easily outrange them.
No matter how strong Wave Serpents are, they alone cannot win games when they face things like CCB etc. That's why I'm trying to rely on them less and less and include some other units. Of course it doesn't mean I make worse lists. Actually, it seems to be the opposite.
Just thinking, wouldn't it be better for the Eldar to focus Wraihths turn 3? He had entire Hornet squadron and 2 free Wave Serpents.
"I'm rather intrigued to discover that my opponent, who looks like a perfectly civilised person, is in fact mathematically capable"
2014/11/17 03:31:46
Subject: 1750 Fun-crons Necrons vs Mechdar Eldar (Completed)
macexor wrote: No matter how strong Wave Serpents are, they alone cannot win games when they face things like CCB etc. That's why I'm trying to rely on them less and less and include some other units. Of course it doesn't mean I make worse lists. Actually, it seems to be the opposite.
Just thinking, wouldn't it be better for the Eldar to focus Wraihths turn 3? He had entire Hornet squadron and 2 free Wave Serpents.
Yeah, serpents need support. While they are a good unit, they can't get it done just by themselves. My mechdar list usually includes wraithknights, warp spiders and nowadays even swooping hawks just to make it more rounded.
1 serpent was wrecked. I believe 1 was stunned so really, he only had 2 serpents. However, he wanted to grab a Maelstrom objective (the one contested by my monolith) and so had to move his ObSec serpent flat-out in order to grab it. Thus, realistically, he only had 1 serpent + the hornets to deal with my wraiths, and if he did so, he would have left his hornets dangerously within my assault range next turn. Thus, he probably felt it more prudent to flat-out his hornets away and then shoot at my flyers as they can still snap-shoot after moving.
AdeptSister wrote: Thanks for the report! I have two questions:
1. How does the Eldar list deal with AV 14? It looks like it could not deal with mass av14.
2. How did d-scythes wall of death hurt the CCB? I thought they would be resolved against av13?
1. Not sure. It is probably a test list for him. Basically, his list doesn't worry too much about AV14 because he can just get out of its way easily. For example, in our battle, he just ignored my monolith the entire game. It really didn't do all that much.
2. It has the Distort rule, so it will glance (or pen, don't remember which) on a 6. When I charged in, he had 5D3 wall of death Overwatch shots and so brought down my skimmer.
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
Every unit in that list is extremely good. Even the monolith is good in 7th now that it scores and is large enough to basically be obsec if it centers on an objective, while the damage chart changed making it insanely durable.
4000 points: Craftworld Mymeara 
Daemons: 5000+ points
CSM/Black Legion: 5000+ points
Deathwatch/Knights: 5000 points
