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Hey all,

I am slightly concerned about going to a tournament since I have only even played ONE match (That being a standard intro game with Luke vs. 2 Black Squadron Ties). I suppose since I won with the Tie Fighters that I'm ready to play since I changed galactic history. My problem is that I like all of my ships, and since I haven't played any big games I'm not sure what list looks like the best all around... but I'd be happy to take any of these...

1st List: 99 Pts
This list was the one I thought was the most demanding of me. I have to fly WAY better then my opponent to win since I have very few hit points and will rely heavily on Fel to outmaneuver my opponent's ships. The good thing about the list is that I basically fire 1st against other ships at PS 9, 9, and 8.
Echo:
Veteran Instincts
Advanced Cloaking Device
Fire Control Systems
Recon Specialist

Soontir Fel:
Stealth Device
Push the Limit

Turr Phennir:
Veteran Instincts

2nd List: 100 Pts
I put this list together after the 1st thinking that, 'Well, Lambdas aren't great, but they offer a whopping 20 HPs". My only concern with this list is that obviously the space cows will be avoided and people will focus on Echo... the good news is that I have heavy firepower on the shuttles, whom I can just [] against and stay at long range to shoot.
Echo:
Veteran Instincts
Advanced Cloaking Device
Fire Control Systems
Gunner

Omicron Pilot:
Heavy Laser Cannon
Mercenary Gunner

Omicron Pilot:
Heavy Laser Cannon

3rd List: 100 Pts
I love the Tie Defender, it is an awesome model and a real power-house... if he doesn't die (Which is hard, since the cost probably far out-weighs the usefulness of this guy.) I chose Brath, hoping that Fel and Phennir can peck shields off ships allowing Brath to run up, double focus (Push the Limit) and shoot to push through Crits that aren't crits. This list however still relies heavily on my ability to out-fly my opponent (Probably not best when considering my rookiee status). Another interesting thing I thought about with the Defender is that when it has the engine upgrades and push the limit it can basically just pull a 180 turn and stay where it's at. White 4 turn, then boost and boost and you're right back where you started. Not sure that this will ever be great, but who knows.
Rexler Brath:
Engine Upgrade
Push the Limit

Soontir Fel:
Push the Limit

Turr Phennir:
Veteran Instincts

4th List: 100 Pts
Another list relying on Brath to turn cards. But this time I feel I have a stronger frontal assault list with 4 Ties swarming in. Howlrunner has tactics to boost me up to 3 units shooting at PS 8 which is fairly solid, just save Brath and hope that my Ties can peel back some shields for him to hammer away. I know folks usually put Predator on Brath, but I feel like with Predator you rely heavily on low pilot skill from your opponent. With Push the Limit he can easily just take 2 focus allowing for one to shoot and 1 to turn cards. Maybe I'm wrong here.
Rexler Brath:
Engine Upgrade
Push the Limit

Howlrunner:
Swarm Tactics

3x Academy Pilots

5th List: 100 Pts
I'm also a huge fan of the Firespray and it's double arc... and I have an idea for a paint scheme that I want to throw down on this guy. Not sure that this list has synergy since the Ties will fly of quickly while the hunter is slow and steady (And easily focused down by other ships). I'm not sure.
Bounty Hunter:
Recon Specialist
Seismic Charge

Soontir Fel:
Stealth Device
Push the Limit

Turr Phennir:
Stealth Device
Veteran Instincts

Anyway, which list seems like the most appropriate for a beginner? I'm leaning towards Brath with the mini Howler swarm as cool, but relies on my to be good with my maneuvers. What do you guys think? Are the lists even any good?

 Matt1785 wrote:
1st List: 99 Pts

This is a really bad idea right now. You don't have the experience to handle the maneuvering, so you're going to make stupid moves and lose ships early. And that very quickly leads to losing a one-sided game where you don't have much fun. At absolute most I would pick one maneuver-focused ship and dump the rest in favor of something more straightforward so you can put all your effort into the one complex ship.

As a long-term list it's still kind of weak. You're incredibly dependent on out-maneuvering your opponent and have no meatshields available. I'd drop Phennir (the weakest of your ships) and replace him with a couple of basic TIE fighter meatshields.

2nd List: 100 Pts

Probably better than the first, but not very good. You can only stop once before you have to do a green maneuver to clear stress, so it's going to be very easy to keep your shuttles out of the fight for long periods of time while your opponent deals with the phantom. With shuttles you really need to have the experience to plan out a sequence of several moves to bring you back into the game after the initial pass, and that means lots of practice with them.

3rd List: 100 Pts

Same problem as the first list, too much invested in arc dodgers that you don't have the skills to use successfully. Also, remember that you can only take each action once per turn, so PTL will not let you double focus. I'd trade it for either veteran instincts (PS 10 to keep other high-PS ships in arc with a boost action) or predator (more raw firepower).

4th List: 100 Pts

This is much better. The defender will give you a bit of a challenge, but the mini-swarm is a straightforward ball of death that you can just throw at your opponent and let the dice do the work.

As for predator, it really doesn't depend on low-PS. A single re-roll is still incredibly powerful since it doesn't cost an action/stress/etc, getting to occasionally re-roll two dice is just a nice bonus to make a good card even better.

5th List: 100 Pts

And same maneuvering problems again. If you want to use a Firespray it's a good option for a new player. The basic stat line is good, the rear arc makes it more forgiving of maneuvering mistakes, and it doesn't have any complicated abilities to keep track of. Support it with a Howlrunner mini-swarm like your 4th list and you've probably got the best newbie-friendly list you're going to find.

Excellent feedback, I'm glad that I wasn't completely crazy when thinking that most of these lists required me to have way more then 1 test game under my belt.

Despite the difficulty I WILL run with Brath and the miniature Tie Swarm. I think that 4 TIes with Swarm Tactics and Howl should do fine. My only wonder now is what to run Brath with.

So I can run him with the Heavy Laser Cannon and that's it. Or I can run him with Predator (Good call on this. I did not know I couldn't double pump Focus... again, something I wouldn't have wanted to learn on the day) and Engine Upgrade or Shield Upgrade... or should I go in light? Like 99 points and force initiative?

I'm not sure Engine upgrade will do me any good minus Push the Limit and the ship moves fairly well anyway. I think the shield upgrade is a decent choice since it gives me some more wiggle room. With the Stealth Device I up my dodge and also come in at 99... maybe a good idea.

 Matt1785 wrote:
I'm not sure Engine upgrade will do me any good minus Push the Limit and the ship moves fairly well anyway.

What EU does is allow you to change your arc at high PS, after most other ships have moved. So let's say you take veteran instincts to make him PS 10. You set your dial to a white k-turn, and do it. Then, depending on where everyone else ended up, you can either take a focus token or swing your arc 45* left or right (covering a total of 180*). Yeah, you lose the opportunity to take a focus action, but usually you'll use your boost action either when you have no shot otherwise, or when boosting will take you out of arc entirely against a major threat. This is especially important against phantoms and similar arc-dodgers since they're so hard to predict. EU takes away the prediction factor and lets you just react to them and shoot them.

My suggestion against an unknown metagame would be VI and EU, with an optional HLC if you have enough points available without cutting too much out of the rest of your list. If you know your local metagame doesn't include phantoms/Fel/etc (PS 9 arc dodgers) you can trade VI for predator, but I wouldn't do it unless you're very confident that your local metagame is weird and you don't need PS 10.

Hmm, was reviewing my list looking at VI and EU but the problem with that is then I have 2 points left over and nowhere to really put them, unless I do a targeting computer on Howlrunner, which I don't know... seems like I would constantly forget it.

To add the HLC to the Defender (Which pushes him in my mind too high in points) I'd need to drop a Tie fighter, at which point I could only take Howlrunner and then I'd up the pilots to Obsidian group pilots... I actually came up with this list below... what do you think?

Rexler Brath:
Engine Upgrade
Veteran Instincts
Heavy Laser Cannon

Howlrunner:
Predator

Black Squadron Pilot:
Veteran Instincts

Black Squadron Pilot:
Veteran Instincts

I am down 1 Tie fighter, but the lowest Pilot skill is 6, which isn't bad, makes it un-necessary for Howlrunner to run Swarm Tactics opening her up to Predator (Which is ok, basically allowing her ability to work on herself), which will allow me to open up to always use an Evade with her instead of focus (Since I can just re-roll). Rexler is an absolute monster now with 4 attack dice regardless of his range and what does he care about criticals going to regular when he can focus and critical them out? Anyway, my only concern is the one less Tie, but I'm at least firing earlier then my opponent...

I'd suggest running the three lesser TIEs in lieu of the list with two Black Squadrons at PS 6. Those 'middle ground' PSs aren't really that useful unless there are abilities attached to them that make it a beneficial undertaking.

I find the all or nothing PS approach to work with each individual ship. If you won't use the high PS for something specific, or the ability of the pilot...just field a low PS mook.

Well, the event was yesterday. It was my first event obviously, and I ended up winning, losing, and winning... so not a bad showing I suppose.

The first list I played against was Jake Ferrel fully upgraded (Don't remember them) and then he had 3 prototype pilots all with assault missiles. I ended up letting that scare me too much I'd guess, but I made some choice maneuvers and ended up really only winning by a litte, killed 2 A-Wings and he wasn't able to fire any missiles... not a bad game.

Second game I went up against a Howler swarm like mine with a decked out Vader w/ EU, Proton Rockets, and I believe PTL... but a solid Vader build. He had initiative, which really hurt me bad since he was able to ace me first. He ended up clearing me off the board. I felt I flew well though.

Last game I played my friend who was also playing for the first time. I build him a Fat Han with C3PO, R2, EU, Millenium Falcon, Predator, and then he had 3 of the PS 4 Z-95 pilots. I ended up tabling him in about 40 minutes. He just mis-played Han, running him around too much. But he's now hooked, and has ordered ships to start playing (This game rocks)

Overall the Ties were solid, but Brath was just... not great. He wasn't ever really worth it. I found myself boosting most of the time to get out of arc (He only died in one game) but he also didn't do much as a shooter because I wasn't really getting any re-rolls and kept saving Focus for card flipping (Only got to do this against Han). I'll be ditching him from now on. I may end up just replacing him with a Slave I for now. Anyway, Brath as a PS 10 with EU was pretty good though, like I said, I made my opponents pretty upset with how quickly he was able to get away.... just wish he could have shot well on top of it. Anyway, thanks for the help.

 Matt1785 wrote:
kept saving Focus for card flipping

This was a mistake. You almost never want to save focus for crit-flipping if you have eyes on your attack roll (or have an opportunity to spend that focus on defense and stop damage) the chance of getting a relevant crit is low enough that you'll almost always do more by just turning the eye(s) into another guaranteed point of damage. Sure, sometimes you'll hold the focus, but usually only when you have a defenseless low-agility target (b-wing with shields down and no focus, for example) and a pretty good attack roll already. In that situation they aren't going to stop many (or any) of your hits with evade dice, so you can consider the value of one more point of damage vs. multiple crits instead of hits. But most of the time Rexler is just a PS 8-10 defender, and you'll only use his pilot ability if you get lucky and don't roll any eyes on your attack dice.

I don't disagree with Peregrine's broader points, but I'm no veteran player and had a lot of fun (and won) the other day with a Vader/Fel/Phennir list. All 3 had Push the Limit, Vader had an engine upgrade and Fel & Phennir had stealth devices. I spend the whole game making some really interesting manouvres, boosting and barrel rolling into and out of ranges and fire arcs.

I actually found afterwards that I'd probably drop Vader for Carnor Jax with the same modifications as the other interceptors for even more fun.

I'm sure I'd have been blasted apart by a strong Rebel list, especially one with large ships with turrets. The Rebels were using Corran Horn, Roark Garnet and 2 Rookie X wing pilots.

I'm still working on my movement. I did well in the tournament, and considering it was my first games with asteroids (It being only my 2nd, 3rd, and 4th games... 1st, 2nd, and 3rd with actual lists besides 2 Black Squadrons and Luke and asteroids) I only hit an asteroid once, and I just barely glanced it.

This game blows me away with the simple mechanics and tactical prowess required. The balance seems pretty spot on, but that comes from a GW background where balance doesn't ever seem to enter the designer's minds.

I'm contemplating a YT-2400 list for the next tournament, probably with some A-wings.. just for kicks. I'll have to work it out. Thanks for all the feedback.

 Riquende wrote:
I don't disagree with Peregrine's broader points, but I'm no veteran player and had a lot of fun (and won) the other day with a Vader/Fel/Phennir list. All 3 had Push the Limit, Vader had an engine upgrade and Fel & Phennir had stealth devices. I spend the whole game making some really interesting manouvres, boosting and barrel rolling into and out of ranges and fire arcs.

Oh, I agree that it's a fun list, but it's brutally unforgiving of movement mistakes. You can fly it without being the best player ever as long as you're willing to accept the occasional loss, but the OP was literally playing their first game ever. I would encourage them to aim for it in the near future, but you really need a few games with the basics before you understand the maneuvering system well enough to have a chance with a low-HP arc dodging list.